For me, I only need the cheapest possible phone, with acceptable battery life, think Nokia, something like a banged up 3310 or 8310.
I sometimes wonder why people spend $1700+ for an iPhone, sometimes more if they buy a reliable case or a $100 tempered glass screen protector from Harvey Norman, and if they are a noob a 2 year extended warranty for $200 (even though the Australian consumer act covers most electronics for 2 years).
What are your thoughts?
Exactly. And phones are actually cheap and underpriced realistically, even the iPhone X.
I say this as comparatively to a Desktop PC or a car which provides equal or less use for the Average Joe at a much higher price.
The sour grapes in this market is that Apple forces you to spend more money into its own ecosystem, whereas Android seems to care little about the consumer's experience and longevity of the device. I can elaborate on these points.
I say this as comparatively to a Desktop PC or a car
Apple's markup on cost of sale is often over 100%. You can google some teardowns to see for yourself. This margin has bled across manufacturers for many phones and tablets. Not so for cars and desktop PCs - I'd be shocked if their manufacturers get even a quarter of that.
Costs of the parts used are not a fair comparison. You have to take in to consideration things like R&D, marketing, warehouse staff, labour costs to assemble and test, OS development, etc. That is where the cost come from, not the parts. Do a tear down price on anything and you will see similar margins.
Cars and PCs contain no less R&D than phones and tablets. The labour and infrastructure to make and distribute cars is arguably much more expensive.
Apple charge(d) a delta of $150 for an increase in memory that retails for less than $30. This, too, was picked up by their competitors who now do the same.
I can't afford a 100% markup on a car ($20,000—->$40,000) but I can afford %100 on a $500 device that I'll be using much more frequently than the car, including when I'm in the car (legally -handsfree, nav etc)
It's a bit hard to compare profit percentages on products that are in different price segments.
For a lot of computer components where R&D is significantly invested into the markup can be huge, i.e. the bill of materials for a Nvidia GTX1080 is a few hundred dollars and they sell at over $1k. Other industries recoup R&D $ differently, i.e. printers can sell at cost and their ink can have a %1000 markup.
And that may all be true but the fact remains that phones can be very heavily marked up compared to other mass distributed consumer electronics items, IMO largely because Apple set the precedent. I'm not arguing whether it's justified or worth it - that's for each consumer to decide.
There’s no “truth that remains”, you’ve made a bunch of statements and provided no evidence, so you just appear like you are ranting against Apple.
“Cars and PCs contain no less R&D than phones and tablets. The labour and infrastructure to make and distribute cars is arguably much more expensive.”
Source? I could counter and say that the infrastructure to produce millions of iPhone’s and distribute them to pretty much every country in the world is arguably more expensive. Pretty useless point I’ve given with no evidence, isn’t it?
”Apple's markup on cost of sale is often over 100%. You can google some teardowns to see for yourself”
And a video game I purchased for $60 cost less than a few cents in materials.. a bunch of con artists!
”the fact remains that phones can be very heavily marked up compared to other mass distributed consumer electronics items”
Source?
”IMO largely because Apple set the precedent”
Finally a straight opinion, no real source for this at all though.
@rbrb: when producing in bulk it is parts which will count. Ads, marketing, R&D, labour, warehouse are done by other companies as well.. and usually it is limited to 10-15% of their Product cost when produced in bulk…
Wrong comparison there.
Apple can't really be compared with Android.
If you wanna talk about the company,, you have to choose either software or hardware manufacturer.
You can compare iOS vs Android.
Apple vs Google.
But when it comes to longevity, there are actually Android hardware manufacturers who have been doing quite well when it comes to device quality and longevity.
Yeah mate, just like someone believes memory is storage and then asks what is RAM exactly
So like Samsung supplying components to Apple to make their Phones?
Then you would have to argue water is under priced and that unrestricted access to air should require an expensive licence.
Nope. Phones aren't cheap and underpriced. They're expensive and overpriced. Except some of the newer Chinese models.
Would you really prefer a CRT monitor rather than an IPS ultrawide?
Of all the possible examples you chose this…
CRTs still have their place, particularly in classic and arcade gaming for performance and authenticity purposes.
So the answer to your question is an overwhelming yes for many classic gaming enthusiasts ;)
CRT have way better black levels ? Maybe better than OLED?
Bad example, CRT is far superior for some uses. Look up Sony BVM D24E1WU, few $1000 for one of them.
Because I use my phone for:
- keeping all my contacts and syncing them to the cloud;
- calendar and appointments (and syncing those too);
- emails and other messaging apps;
- reading and drafting documents;
- browsing the net for work and for fun;
- Youtube;
- watching other videos;
- listening to music;
- rewards and loyalty cards;
- banking;
- workout/run/cycling tracking;
- controlling home automation;
- taking photos and recording video (and then sharing them);
- for GPS and maps and music in the car;
Probably dozens more uses I haven't listed. Oh, to play games on too.
How so?
if anything my phone has allowed me to be more social, my social life has skyrocketed since the development of social media and smartphones.
I remember my dad used to have to sit on his chair and CALL people from a phone book every night if he wanted to catch up with anyone or organise a beer at the pub
In most family or friends gatherings, I have noticed that 90% of the time people are on their phones checking emails or social media, playing games, texting freinds, reading the news etc
I miss the times when a gathering was actually a fun time where everyone would share stories, talk about their week, play in the back yard with freinds, nieces, nephews etc
Maybe if 90% of the time people are being bored by you, they aren't the ones with the problem?
Except now we can share stories, talk about our week on a daily basis and do all of the above while being able to organise meetups on the fly, catch up with multiple people at a time etc
@easternculture: Don't blame the phones. https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/540/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M…
Bollocks.
People are the reason I've become more antisocial, people are rubbish. I'll take a book to the pub & read rather than having to make small talk with people. The phone makes a handy alternative, allowing social interaction to a degree, but it can easily be put in the pocket once the world gets too peopley. Additionally, my phone has actually made it easier for me to keep in touch with the few people I do want to keep in touch with.
This!
Look at all this technology making us anti social! https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/540/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M…
watching other videos;
Lol
P***hub
Get your mind outta the gutter lol, this is streaming stuff…. on public transport.
Lol with a privacy screen haha
This.
A $1,000 in my view is as much as anyone should need to spend. That should get you 3 years out of a good phone now. I want it to do everything and do it fast. It's a significant work tool now as well.
My $59 Alcatel Pop 4 is still going strong after 2 years.
And my $49 Huawei Y201 lasted 3 or 4 years.
Ive been using an S3 since they came out. Still use it daily with no problems.
I would prefer to spend $1000 on computer parts where the actual power is useful as opposed to spending the extra money to access apps or email half a second faster on a phone.
And you recharge it every fifth hour?
Better question is why do people still spend that much when Android phones do everything Iphone doesand more but alot cheaper.
People like having a phone that still gets timely security updates after 6 months, probably. Far superior app support. Apps are actually vetted before they get onto the App store. iCloud backup is so much better than any Google alternative. Screen+Build quality of the phone way better than basically any Android. Aesthetics are easily more noticeable on an iPhone.
BTW, a lot is two words.
Very true about the OS Updates.
But Iphone screens are definitely not better than phones like Galaxy s9.
Iphones build quality is questionable, both my brothers have Iphones one an Iphone X and the other an Iphone 8 they both got them in the last 6 months. The Iphone X died completely and the Iphone 8 charge port died too.
Iphones build quality is questionable, both my brothers have Iphones one an Iphone X and the other an Iphone 8 they both got them in the last 6 months. The Iphone X died completely and the Iphone 8 charge port died too.
Your purely anecdotal evidence has stripped me of my opinion that iPhones are superior - wow, you have evidence of two faulty iPhones! But what happened when they claimed warranty on these devices from Apple?
Let me guess - replaced on the spot?
@ThithLord: "replaced on the spot?"
You mean like literally every other phone manufacturer.
No shit they would get replaced i'd demand replacement for any $1000+ phone also.
You mean like literally every other phone manufacturer.
hahaha friggen whaaat? What other manufacturer can you walk in to their support (like a Genius bar), show them your faulty phone, and walk away 15 minutes later with a replacement phone?
Samsung service centers.
Our household has a number of Apple devices so it's not like we are ardent "Anti-apple" folk (1 MBP, 1 MBA, an iPhone 7, 2x Ipad Airs, an iPhone 5C). We've had experiences with Apple Genius bar as well as the Samsung stores. I'd say the level of service is almost at par based on anecdotal experience.
@gearhead: I just simply do not believe you. I live in Brisbane and handle faulty Samsung phones in my line of work constantly, and claiming the Samsung warranty is an absolute pain.
I just simply do not believe you.
That's rather unfortunate, but it doesn't make a difference.
I live in Brisbane and handle faulty Samsung phones in my line of work constantly, and claiming the Samsung warranty is an absolute pain.
The experience has been the exact opposite for me. Over the years, my wife and I have owned a significant number of Samsung phones (S3, S4, S5, 2x S6, S7 edge, S8+ and Note 8). Our experience with Samsung has been exemplary.
In any case, it is fairly evident that you absolutely love Apple, have a very jaundiced view of Samsung and are fairly intractable regarding your stance on either. So not much I can do to convince you otherwise. shrug
Screen is definitely not better than S9 on iPhone X since screen is made by Samsung themselves.
Also build quality is not really good imo, not strong enough.
I do agree the fact that they do get better security updates. Though I think Pixel 2 pushes them out fast.
iCloud backup imo isn't good enough - only gives you 5GB of space while Google gives you 15GB w/ unlimited photo storage.
Nowadays, iOS doesn't have far superior app support. 5 years ago they did.
Aesthetics shouldn't matter but I think it's the Apple logo.
Disclaimer: I am an Android user, though I switched from iOS a few years ago due to the prices and crappy specs that go along with it. Great choice.
Screen is definitely not better than S9 on iPhone X since screen is made by Samsung themselves.
This doesn't mean the screen is the same quality. Samsung could use a different screen to lower their production cost of the S9, for example. (I can't comment on the quality of that one specific phone you've mentioned, as I haven't seen it in person).
iCloud backup imo isn't good enough - only gives you 5GB of space while Google gives you 15GB w/ unlimited photo storage.
How do you get that "free" storage, can I ask? You would have heard a million times that when using Google, you are the product. All the data you store on Google drive is mined. Apple doesn't sell any of your information and if they mine data, it's opt-in. I'm secure in my phone usage, aside from using Google maps and searches on my PC.
Nowadays, iOS doesn't have far superior app support. 5 years ago they did.
I'll be honest, I don't use a lot of apps on my phone. But when I see new products and services, they almost always have at least iOS support before Android. This is definitely just my experience, but can you point out how Android has better App support? I just respectfully disagree.
Aesthetics shouldn't matter but I think it's the Apple logo.
It matters to a lot of people, regardless if you don't think so.
My Disclaimer: I'd always been on Android before my current iPhone - I mainly moved across because I came into access of basically unlimited genuine lightning cables and Apple had just released the iPhone SE; I'd always liked the form factor of the iPhone 5 but it was inferior at the time it came out.
People like having a phone that still gets timely security updates after 6 months, probably.
Is the 5th June recent enough? :) https://i.imgur.com/5XCRhGg.png
When was your IPhone last updated?
But you're running LineageOS, not the default MIUI.
lmao what? I have an iPhone SE on 11.4 (15F79). (edit to add that this update came through about two or three weeks ago for me. And i easily have the option to go to iOS 12)
As the other comments have stated, you're not even running stock Android. Try again, bro.
o ohhhh we got a fanboy over here
Original. No rebuttal at all, just ad hominem. Expected from an Android fanboi.
@ThithLord:
FYI i have owned iPhones in the past. they definitely have their place
Un-rustle your jimmies
Imagine not getting a Pixel phone
I think "a lot" of iPhone users want to justify their overpriced purchase.
icloud is a bit of a joke compared to google offering.
Google photos and drive is tonnes more useful.
You'll have to outline how it's a joke, Phocus.
I had an issue with something on the circuitry on my iPhone - took it to the Apple store, they swapped it out on the spot with a brand new iPhone. I performed an iOS restore; the phone was practically exactly as I had it on my last phone.
Backup restore is pretty trivial.
But try using icloud download all your images to your computer. You also need to pay more for more space for all your images.
Google drive offering is light years ahead with docs, sheets, presentation, sharing.
If all you are comparing is basic backup, I guess icloud is fine. Granted you can use the google apps and services on your ios device but its better integrated on android and pixel
@phocus: When I was talking about iCloud being superior to Google's alternative, I was solely referring to the phone backup and restore process. Sorry, I should have clarified.
Sorry ThithLord, this was true maybe 3 years ago. it's completely different now! Australians are suckers for Iphones but switch and you'll see the benefits! Currently use the S9. Rebuttals to your claims have been completely disregarded by multiple people so won't bother.
I sincerely disagree. I use Android phones a lot at work - currently Samsung S7s, granted, not S9s. This iPhone is my first iPhone; I've always had Android before this phone. So I'm not some sucker Apple fanboi as everyone is trying to make out.
I always hear this argument but there's more to it than just the phone. When you buy an iPhone you're buying into the Apple ecosystem and this means things like their App store (which is arguably better), their physical stores, updates, iCloud, airplay, warranty, etc.
I'm an S9 user myself but there is a lot of appeal to the Apple offering. There's a reason schools push iPads more than any other tablet.
"There's a reason schools push iPads more than any other tablet."
There's no decent Android tablets.
Schools don't buy iPads much any more. The focus is on Chromebooks. And the latest price drop for iPads was in response to this fact as well as a Chrome OS tablet being released.
Would disagree with that - I'm very happy with my Samsung Tab S3!
Android tablets are exactly.as good as a really huge android phone sounds. I read comics on mine, I think it's great
@jonathonsunshine: Probably should of worded it better, but there's no cheap decent android tablets as an android alternative to Ipad 2017/2018 versions.
I am an Android user but I do like the fact where Apple has physical stores for Genius bar (which is arguably useless in some situations). I don't like their App store but that's just me. Also their warranty is neat
Curious what exactly do you need to use the genius bar thing for?
it's not something a simple quick google or forum post for help would solve is it?
No idea what they do tbh never owned an iphone due to the OS being so locked down and the extreme prices.
@Axelstrife: My mate has a very bad luck. He has to return 4 phones over the past couple years, both iPhone and Android phones. It is way easier to return and get a new one when it's an iPhone, took him just an hour to go and get a new one. With his Nexus phone he had to be phone less for a week.
@Axelstrife: they replace batteries, check phone faults and replace the phone if necessary. For people who completely lock themselves out of the phone and don’t own a computer (shocking I know) they can restore phones or do anything that need iTunes etc.
@Axelstrife: You can walk into the genius bar with a 10 year old Macbook that has issues and they'll grab it off you and see if they can help you.
I used to have this mentality too. My Note 2 just decided to die one day but I persevered and got the S6 Edge, whose camera too decided to die and Samsung refused to replace it. Not to mention both got extremely clunky and slow, compared to my mum's old iPhone which was as sleek and fast as the day she got it. I do miss the ability to drag and drop into the USB storage though.
Same reason people buy a base model BMW instead of settling for a Camry.
Troll or just ignorant?
Porque no los dos?
with cheese?
My rule of thumb is to spend no more than $550 on a phone, and hopefully that phone lasts at least 5 years, my last phone was a htc hd2, lasted 5.5 years, currently on a htc m8, which is close to 4 years old and going strong. There is a good quality phone at every price point.
I still have a M8 as a back up phone. Still works great, only the camera lets it down. Fantastic sound quality from speakers and headphone jack! They can be picked up for under $100 on eBay which is actually a great bargain.
Do you adjust that $550 for yearly inflation?
2.8% this year?
Everybody places a different value on what functions their phone completes.
I wouldn't get a phone that didn't have access to Google Map navigation or the ability to easily browse the internet. I need a good quality, fast camera for my job and I need to be able to access my email wherever I am.
I completely agree, $1,700 plus for an iPhone is totally unreasonable.
My personal limit for buying my new phone recently was $700 — and I wound up with a Nokia!
What phone are you running at the moment, OP?
Phones are now used for more than just making calls. It's a multimedia device where better features/quality/performance demands a higher price.
It's a silly topic really, you're basically saying why buy anything if there's a cheaper alternative. Would you really prefer a CRT monitor rather than an IPS ultrawide? They do the same thing right? /s