Help! Body Corporate Banned Woolies/Coles Deliveries to Door - Can They Do This? UPDATE (resolved!)

Ok I'm so mad right now….hoping the wise counsel of OzBargainers can come through for me.

Background: I rent an apartment in a luxury high rise apartment building. The building is inhabited by a lot of wealthy owner occupier retirees who have nothing better to do with their time than enjoying ruling over their fiefdom. Usually I just ignore their pettiness because I'm too busy working hard to pay my expensive rent and the location and quality of my apartment outweighs moving.

Current situation:
A few months back, the body corporate created a rule that no takeaway food delivery drivers (eg. Uber eats) were allowed past the ground foyer 24 hour concierge desk. We were instructed that we would have to come down and collect all orders instead of them being allowed to our apartment door. This was done in the name of "security". This pissed me off, but since I don't order food too often, I sucked it up and went with it.

One thing I do order online for delivery is Woolworths grocery orders. At the time however, we were told these were excluded from the rules.

Switch to today….I am at home on parental leave with my newborn baby, sleep deprived and my baby is not well. Woolworths order arrives. I buzz them up. On the way my driver gets abused by a neighbour on my floor (who I've never met). He is told he is not allowed up to make deliveries. i call the concierge immediately and they tell me the body corporate have just expanded the No Door Delivery Rule to include Coles and Woolworths orders. I tell him I can't collect the orders from downstairs because a) I can't lift the orders myself and b) I have a newborn baby so totally impractical for me to leave my apartment.

He tells me to contact the building manager but says there is nothing he can do.

I find out from him the apartment number of the neighbour who complained about me.

SO I'm obviously fuming but decide to take a deep breath before confronting my neighbour and sending an abusive email to the building manager.

What is the sensible way to deal with this? I order from Woolworths weekly. Can body corporates make rules like this? It's not in my rental agreement? Can I fight it?

TL;DR Body corporate of my luxury high rise apartment building where I rent has banned woolworths delivery drivers from delivering groceries to the doors of apartments. At home with newborn baby so can't collect from the lobby every time I order. Can I fight this?

UPDATE
As per PizzaBoy's advice (thank you!) I wrote to the building manager requesting documentation of this new " rule". I also added some commentary around my current newborn situation and requested a solution. Also put a few light references to my current physical "disability" (total truth as I have back problems now as a result of pregnancy/birth) because as per some comments on this thread suggested, there must be a potential discrimination case there too.

He came back with zero documentation and completely ignored that question - PizzaBoy originally suggested to me that it is highly doubtful they actually have this rule legally documented and binding. I suspect this is indeed correct!

He then proceeded to say he would grant me an "exception to the rule" and inform concierge that all grocery orders are to be allowed up to my door!

So massive win, though am still concerned about neighbours going off at my drivers but I figure if it happens again, I'll ask the building manager to deal with it since he granted the exception.

A big thank you to PizzaBoy who taught me to always ask for things in writing! And to everyone in this thread for your encouraging (and sometimes hilarious) ideas on how to respond. Rest assured if my exception is removed at any point I'll be taking a squeaky trolley down there, blocking the lifts and leaving groceries all over the lobby floor - all supported by a crying baby!

Comments

  • +4

    can they do this?

    Yes.

    Can I fight this?

    Sure. Get enough owners on your side and vote to change the rule at the next AGM. Or usually, if you get enough signatures, you can call an extraordinary general meeting, and change the rule there.


    Aside from that:

    I tell him I can't collect the orders from downstairs because a) I can't lift the orders myself and b) I have a newborn baby so totally impractical for me to leave my apartment.

    Failing to see how that's really anyone's problem but your own. That's slightly (very?) unsympathetic, but there's them breaks. Invest in a hand trolley and a nanny?

    • +12

      Failing to see how that's really anyone's problem but your own.

      My wife did that with a newborn, a 2yo, and 3-4 flights of stairs. OP can adjust their behaviour to suit the circumstances while they petition a change in the strata rules.

      Some things to try are:
      - Shop smaller but more often
      - Carry things using a pram
      - Carry baby in a baby carrier and use pram to hold more stuff

      • +7

        Good idea on multi tasking with pram. Your wife is a trooper!

        • +2

          Just be mindful that umbrella strollers have a fairly high and rear centre of gravity. Take the bags off the stroller before you take the kid out, otherwise it will generally topple over. Traditional prams and trike strollers tend to be more stable due to their geometry.

        • -6

          sounds like you need an African gang that my replacement for woolworth driver. getto blazzed scare all old rich people.

        • +2

          Can someone translate this into English?

        • @GregMonarch: bikies

        • so lame

    • +6

      Fair comment. Might look at some hand trolleys. Unfortunately I'm too poor paying the rent for this damn apartment that a nanny is out of budget, I swear I'm the poorest person in this apartment building. There's a reason I'm on ozbargain you know!

      • +1

        Hahaha, fair enough. Talk to your landlord - maybe they know the other owners and can explain the situation to them? Or the building manager doesn't know you're dealing with a newborn either, and they'd be more understanding if they knew, just send them non-abusive emails first.

      • Have chat to your landlord he might own most of the rental unit.

      • +2

        Get the decision "Body corporate of my luxury high rise apartment building where I rent has banned woolworths delivery drivers from delivering groceries to the doors of apartments" in written. Might be just an excuse made up on the spot. If it's not written, it's not valid. Also check the vote balance on the matter.

      • +1

        If you live with your husband, can you set the delivery time to be when he is at home to help carry the groceries from lobby to your door. I know its not ideal, but could help until you get Strata committee on your side.

        Find out when the next committee meeting is and make sure to bring it up as a talking point.

        The suggestion of an EGM is not ideal as it costs money and im not sure if a tenant can nominate to hold one.

    • +44

      This is entirely unsympathetic. I’ve been trying to think of really good things western civilisation does well - and making other people’s problems our own is one of them. Our contracts are more than just dog eat dog contracts. They also are supposed to reflect that our institutions have a duty to care for our members and act for the betterment of us all. This is why, btw, when a kid gets hit by a car they are cared for here, unlike in other countries where their body is just left at the side of the road. The OP’s body corporate is failing here in not creatively thinking of how they can help a person and member in genuine need - they could act immediately to help this woman for a few weeks until a better solution can be found.

      I think you should reflect on your values - sometimes people think that being unsympathetic and applying the letter of the law give them a kind of hard arsed brutal honesty. To me they seem myopic - ignoring the larger values our societies and institutions are meant to embody such as compassion. It is important, because I really don’t want to end up living in country where people don’t care for each other.

      • +1

        failing here in not creatively thinking of how they can help a person and member in genuine need - they could act immediately to help this woman for a few weeks until a better solution can be found.

        This is not about "genuine need" or making a temporary exception for a crisis situation. This does not call for a compassionate response from this tin-pot dictatorship.

        This is a basic principle, one of deliveries to premises. If applied equitably, their ruling would exclude all non-residents visiting for commercial or legal reasons. So, furniture deliveries, removalists etc. The purpose of the concierge is to note delivery personnel to address "security concerns".

        Most overseas residential (and many local commercial) premises have a service elevator. At most, any directive from the Grey Army should be for deliveries to use the service elevator. It could have limited access, but again, that's a building management issue. The imposition should not be on residents, but the ability to program access to certain floors at certain times. This is nothing new or high-tech.

        No service elevator? Not the fault of the residents.

      • +4

        I’ve been trying to think of really good things western civilisation does well - and making other people’s problems our own is one of them.

        This statement is about as controversial as you can get.

        We love to excuse and defend the behaviour of others, as it is "their culture", but then expect ourselves to change, so we don't offend anyone.

        There is a massive difference between tolerance and acceptance, and in many cases the negative impact of making every problem our own heavily outweighs any positive impact.

        • I agree - it could be taken too far. On the other hand, western culture still dominates the world, so I think we can risk being too kind from time to time.

        • @AddNinja: Western culture is certainly not based on helping others. We do it because we've pillaged and conquered enough that we're now in a position of sufficient luxury to do so. And it is a luxury. You go into any less developed country or culture and you'll find the people there far more self-sufficient and far less whiny.

        • +1

          @HighAndDry:

          Sorry, history is not on your side.
          Western culture is in a position of sufficient luxury because they made reforms (Enlightenment period) to push religious indoctrination and superstition to the side and invest in Science and Technology. You go into any less developed country and realise they value ideologies more heavily, and have put far less effort and funding into Technology. The people are far more self-sufficient because they need to be, and they are far less whiny because they haven't experienced the alternative. Also some of these cultures were responsible for far more pillaging, conquering, and death than the Western cultures you are so quick to discredit.

        • Do we? I don't. What behaviours from other cultures do "we" allow that cause detriment to the rest of us? And how have you changed so you don't offend anyone?

          I'm not being facetious, I genuinely can't think of a single one off the top of my head. Nor has my normal behaviour ever seemed to offend other cultures in this country (or abroad that I can think of - other than a misunderstanding with me carrying a drink during Ramadan in Dubai!).

      • +10

        Ignore highanddry - he's obsessed with personal responsibility to the point of sociopathy and is completely devoid of empathy

        • Guilty as charged, though this is the first time I've ever heard "personal responsibility" framed as a bad thing.

        • +11

          @HighAndDry: Taking responsibility for yourself is laudable. But refusing to lend a hand to a person in need because of a belief in personal responsibility being the highest virtue could be a bad thing. Like in this instance - saying bad luck to a mother with a newborn when the cost to help her is so little…

        • -7

          @AddNinja:

          Taking responsibility for yourself is laudable

          Then logically failing to do so is the opposite, no? But I didn't even go as far as criticize OP.

          But refusing to lend a hand to a person in need because of a belief in personal responsibility

          Great. Now show me when I was in OP's apartment preventing the delivery person from going up or refusing to carry her groceries.

          saying bad luck to a mother with a newborn when the cost to help her is so little…

          One, I didn't say "bad luck", and Two, Even if I did - that still doesn't actually affect OP. It just makes you feel better. I gave OP suggestions for how she could solve her problem herself without needing to depend on others.

          What have you done to help OP except for whine about my attitude?

        • +2

          @HighAndDry:

          I acknowledge all that and the points are fair but I don't see this as a personal responsibility issue. It's a draconian application of petty bureaucracy by the strata people to the detriment of a mother with a newborn. I don't see cole/woolworths staff as a risk compared to any other person entering the building at the invite of friends.

        • -1

          @one man clan:

          I didn't bring up personal responsibility in this thread - that was you.

          It's a draconian application of petty bureaucracy by the strata people

          I haven't and don't disagree with this. But saying this doesn't help OP. Putting aside there being valid factors for this, they're legally allowed to be 'petty draconian bureaucrats' so long as the follow the right procedures. Conversely, OP has no right to force them to stop being 'petty draconian bureaucrats'.

          Other than making coo-ing noises at OP, I'm not sure how people expect me to be more helpful. OP has two choices, both of which I've already covered:

          1. Get the owners together and overturn this rule.

          2. Get a trolley so she doesn't need to overturn this rule.

          All while holier-than-thou virtue-signalling commenters like AddNinja are on my case about "omg your tone!" despite not doing anything, or saying anything, to actually help OP.

        • +2

          @HighAndDry: I think you sometimes need to realise maybe you are not always right…

        • +2

          If only. That might actually be useful

          His is more an attitude born out of a feeling of helplessness. The reason he tells people basically to accept it, stop whining and make the best of it, is because thats what he tells himself. He wants to put you in your place, because he feels stuck in his. Follow the rules and you'll be fine, is what he believes.

          Which I once believed to be true myself, but now I see that rules are fluid. They are made of water not rock. You can ignore them, deny them, misinterpret them, make exceptions. There are consequences, yes, but something people forget in saying that is, there can be consequences for following the rules too. You can do everything right, obey every law (virtually impossible), and through a quirk of fate still find yourself locked up in prison. Thats the uncomfortable truth

        • -1

          @boostpak: Sure - point out where I'm wrong and I'll happily concede.

        • @outlander: Rules are fluid - but you have to acknowledge what they are first and where the fluidity lies before you want to try and work around them.

          OP won't get anywhere if she goes down the route of sending emotional emails decrying the injustice of the situation. I said this elsewhere, but the first step in negotiating is to know the strength of your own position.

        • +1

          @HighAndDry: Well, she complained to the manager and got an exception to the rule. This wasn't one of your two options and was much easier to sort out, so yes, you were wrong.

      • +1

        Long story short: Flame the body corporate on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and 60 minutes.

        • OP is renting. I'm not sure pissing off the people who cause trouble for her landlord is such a good idea.

        • +2

          @HighAndDry:

          OP is renting. I'm not sure pissing off the person who is giving a significant money weekly to the landlord is such a good idea. As an investor, many would prefer the strata change this policy.

    • +3

      Sure. Get enough owners on your side and vote to change the rule at the next AGM. Or usually, if you get enough signatures, you can call an extraordinary general meeting, and change the rule there.

      Sorry but this quite poor advice.

      To the OP:

      1. You're not obliged to follow strata rules that have not been provided to you

      2. There are limits on strata rules, see s139 of the Strata Schemes Management Act, and this rule definitely sounds both 'harsh' and 'oppressive'. It's up to your landlord to ask for changes to the by-laws, but if the owners corporation tries to enforce invalid by-laws at NCAT against you (NB: their only enforcement option), they'll be in strife.

      I would say ignore all communications from the strata committee.

    • +1
      1. You're paying too much rent, get a better place. 2. Find a place that isn't ruled by idiots. 3. Invest in a trolley if you can't lift that much.

      You wouldn't get this problem in the suburbs, that's all I'm saying. 5 bedroom house is all yours for the same rent that you pay.

      • But… Then you'd live in the suburbs!

  • +7

    Find a teenager/kid in a neighbouring apartment and pay them $5 to bring your groceries in and put them away

    • -1

      Every week….? Plus - OP is going to be a woman alone with her baby at home having kids 'visiting' with groceries every week lol. I'm not sure I want to hear the building gossip after that goes on for a while.

      • Well what else would you suggest? Assuming she doesn't manage to get the body corporate to change the rule.

        • -7

          I already gave a suggestion:

          Invest in a hand trolley and a nanny

          Or a hand trolley and one of those things that lets you carry the baby against your chest or on your back.

        • @HighAndDry: a nanny would be a lot more expensive, and anyway you can make the nanny fetch your groceries if you get one.

          Also, you know when you've just given birth all your bits and your insides are totally ripped up and you can't do any manual labour for a few weeks. Picking up boxes and pulling a trolley isn't possible

        • -1

          @Quantumcat: Look it's not that I'm totally unsympathetic (really, honest). It's just that to me, having reason for sympathy isn't the same as having extra rights. And I don't like leveraging sympathy… which means all these factors? I get them, but they don't really move the needle in these kinds of discussions.

          And maybe it's my training but I start from a 'what are the black and white rights here' as a baseline, and negotiate from there (knowing your position and how strong it is is important to how you approach these things).

        • @HighAndDry: it's ok, not saying it is good or bad but some people have empathy and some don't, so I understand your position. There are advantages to both - by not having empathy you're more likely to find the practical solution that works (rather than spending time complaining that it is unfair), but might not be as motivated to find the best solution for the individual. The world needs a mix of both kinds of people to function at its best.

        • @HighAndDry: it's really not about 'extra rights', it's about allowing everyone to participate equally

        • -1

          @mnermner: Eh, it's the same argument about equal opportunities vs equal outcomes.

        • +1

          @HighAndDry: I think it is common sense that is lacking here, not levering sympathy.

        • -1

          @cameldownunder: Until common sense starts giving OP rights, you can be both right and irrelevant to the conversation.

        • refer to my comment above

    • Good idea but I'm too tightarsed for that.

      • +1

        Is your partner not available, and you don't have any local family? Getting your mum to bring your groceries each week would probably be the easiest thing if that's possible. When my sisters gave birth I visited a couple of times a week and brought cooked meals for their fridge. When I wasn't there my parents were there or my grandparents or the other sister. I'm sorry if your family doesn't live nearby and that isn't possible, must be super hard :(

  • +6

    It would be interesting to know if there's some legislation that covers this. They couldn't, for example, prevent delivery of registered letters AFAIK.

    I wonder if there's some legislation that allows for deliveries of goods.

    • Definitely not. Letters are special because the post service is a government service. Buildings can and often do prevent private couriers from delivering to the door. Woolies/Coles is no different.

    • +15

      Nope there isn't because we've been voting for the 2 major parties.

      Should've voted for the Greens, I'm sure they would've had a policy against this, right?

      • +7

        I was just about to neg before I suddenly realised it wasn't Digi

        • +2

          Was sure diji hijacked the account.

    • -1

      I was wondering the same thing on the leguskatoon but so far sounds like I have zero rights.

    • There is - s139(1) of the Strata Schemes Management Act

  • +4

    OP states she is a renter, so she doesn't really have a say in this (AGM, etc). She needs to speak with the owner she is renting from and ask them to try and take action.

    From memory there was a Vic case that barred body corps from preventing units being used by Airbnb, etc, so may fall under a similar category?

    • Nope. Very doubtful that'd have any bearing - renting to AirBnB is what an owner can do with their own property. This is what Strata can make rules about regarding access and common property.

    • Thanks for your comment. Sounds like I'd have to speak to the owner as you say.

      • +3

        Tell them you spoke to Ozbargain first.

  • -1

    If it's that high-end, I'm quite sure they value their security. Letting delivery people past reception goes against that

    Comes with the territory.

    And as above, you're renting which gives you fk all rights (in this situation), least of all to go crazy at another tenant.

    • +5

      We have CCTV everywhere and full time concierge so pretty hard for dodginess to occur without being noticed. Plus woolies and Coles have gps trackers on all their trucks and know where their drivers are at all times….also I'm sure they do police checks. I can understand random uber eats delivery guys but this feels a bit far.

      • I could be wrong, but I don’t think your body corporate are directly concerned with woolies or Coles drivers being a security risk but the fact that someone could pose as a woolies driver or any other delivery driver.

        CCTV outside of your apartment also means nothing if the offender gets into your apartment. Trust me, as someone who has been burgled before you should thank the body corporate for taking your security so seriously.

  • +2
    1. Is it actually in the bylaws, or just a "rule"? They can't enforce it if it's not in bylaws.

    2. If you're willing to move, you MIGHT be entitled to end the lease without penalty if the landlord is unable to ensure you have "quiet enjoyment" of the property: http://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/content/4-right-quiet-enjoym…

    • +4
      1. Not necessarily - even without a bylaw, the bylaws might well delegate certain rule-making powers to the body corp.

      2. Ha. Not having groceries delivered to your door is not a breach of the right to quiet enjoyment.

      • +1
        1. That was implied by my post.

        2. Perhaps not, but you could argue that restricting who can visit your property is.

          1. But rules made under powers delegated by by-laws can still be enforced. It's mostly pecuniary penalties that can't be enforced unless it's a registered by-law (roughly iirc).

          2. Normal guests? Sure. Delivery person? Nope. (Same as clients to escorts working out of their apartment, you don't have a right to unlimited "visits" from anyone).

        • @HighAndDry: And if the delivery person happens to be my friend as well, and they come up for a drink everytime they drop off my groceries?

        • @djkelly69: I'm pretty sure those clients of escorts do go in for a drink everytime, and more, too.

          There's an element of common sense.

    • Thanks for trying to find a legal angle for me!

      • In this day in age with the proliferation of delivery service, I'd say such a restriction most definitely impacts your "quiet enjoyment". The issue is proving this will only allow you to terminate your lease; it won't solve the issue.

        See my post at the top of the page re enforceability of this by-law for a better angle.

    • This. Is it an actual bylaw or a "house rule"? If it's a new bylaw it would have needed to pass at the AGM with unanimous consent (at least in WA). There's a big difference, one is legally enforceable the other is more of a guideline so as to not piss off the majority of residents.

  • +12

    This is a terrible situation, your neighbours need to get with the 21st century already!

    Best course of action would be to contact your agent/landlord an try and gather support from others in your building that are against this.

    • Yeah….unfortunately the average age of the owners is about 65. They probably don't even shop at Coles or woolies :(

    • -2

      Not sure how getting with the 21st century means allowing couriers and delivery people with no security checks to entire floors of buildings that's meant to be secured.

      If I live in a luxury apartment (and I never will because I… well, lack money for starters) I would insist on the rules OP is opposed to.

      • +11

        I think this threat is hilarious. What are people so scared of? A woolies delivery driver? Are we living in the bronx? I have 2 sets of friends that own properties in Perths tallest luxury appartments and the other being the Penthouses at the Old Swan Brewery. Both have whoever the hell they like come up as long as they are buzzed in. This sounds pathetic, I'd move out of the old peoples home.

        • +1

          What are people so scared of? A woolies delivery driver?

          If you lived there and this driver stole or damaged something of yours you'd blame the strata and they'd be legally liable.

          They'd be reckless and stupid to let just anyone enter a secured building.

        • +5

          @Scab:

          If you lived there and this driver stole or damaged something of yours you'd blame the strata and they'd be legally liable.

          Sounds like bollox to me.

          You're just making up stuff. And inventing a hypothetical and ridiculous scenario.

          They'd be reckless and stupid to let just anyone enter a secured building.

          Because a professional delivery person is more likely to be a security threat than…. normal visitors? Oh, and you can't let just anyone into a building. Heaven's forbid.

          I feel for the OP's situation, but really, if the prevailing attitudes in her building are this elitist and extreme, despite how nice and luxurious her apartment may be, I'm sure I would be getting out ASAP. She is already likely sneered upon for being a 'lowly renter' anyway.

        • @Roman Sandstorm:

          Sounds like bollox to me.

          I was outlining a possible reason why.

          Because a professional delivery person is more likely to be a security threat

          I never said a security threat, could be an issue with insurance.

          Or maybe someone else complained.

          I feel for the OP's situation

          I don't, that's one of the reasons why I don't live in strata, you have little control.

  • +5

    Luxury people problems

    • I draw the line at high yield car investments.

  • +39

    Order shopping, get the delivery driver to leave all your shopping unbagged all over the reception floor and them come down with your baby collecting bit by bit blocking off the lift whilst you do so, so no one else can use it whilst your doing this. Bit of work involved but,half an hour of a lift out of use and shopping all over the reception floor should send them a message of how ridiculous their rule is.

    • +23

      Bonus points if you have to go by the nosy neighbour on the way to reception and back with a crying baby. Make sure you pause right outside their door (it's hard work, you'll have a legitimate reason to take multiple breaks). If they say anything, a nice polite "The Body Corporate thought it was a disruption to have my groceries delivered directly to my door so now I have to collect them from Reception, it takes a while with a fussy baby, but there's not much else I can do because….". Maybe you can get them on your side?

      • +11

        And drop a roach bomb wedged under his door by accident with fish sauce or something that stinks for days on end but doesn't stain.

      • +32

        Extra bonus points for ordering a large pumpkin which you can't lift on your own so have to bring down chopping boards and knives to divide it up in reception.

      • +2

        knock on their door (every door?) and ask for help carrying the groceries.

        "Sorry, I just had a baby, can't lift things, doctor's orders, can you help me carry this up to level 73?"

    • +2

      Great advice!

    • +1

      LOL! Best comment of the thread! Thanks for the much-needed laugh!

    • Im sure that nosy neighbour will then make a formal complaint on this tenant and blacklist her, and make up some excuse of bylaw breach to strata manager ie. one we received recently on unrelated matter "nuisance" (as an owner).

    • Maybe you can get a shopping trolley and cart that through the lifts and halls.

  • Bikies

    • +1

      Classic Oz bargain solution.

      • Also seems to be a controversial comment these days.

      • And a lame one

  • +24

    Couldn't you just go down and escort the delivery guy up?

    I'm assuming the dude's not using a forklift to carry your groceries, so the delivery guy would be on the same level as any invited guest.

    • Good thinking

    • Yes, I think this is going to be the easiest route. But painful if baby is asleep or I'm in the middle of breast feeding,

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