Basic Questions about Laptop Processors

sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 12:38
Last edited 28/09/2018 - 13:02 by 1 other user

Hi, sorry if these basic questions have been asked elsewhere, I'm out of touch with current technology and haven't seen

This isn't a which laptop is best thread - I'm hoping to learn and understand the difference between processors.

The background is my wife is looking for a small laptop for basic tasks and possibly for future work which would be along the lines of Intranet and Office development.
So she doesn't need a blazingly fast device, and doesn't need gaming graphics. She also doesn't need anything like 4k video playback etc. But ability to support 3D office presentation graphics is probably useful.

1 - My first question is what is the difference between i3, i5 and i7?
Is it simply that the i7 is faster than i3?

2 - What is the difference between generations of these Intel Core processors?

3 - What happened to Pentium (I saw one in Officeworks today - is it between a Celeron and i3?).

4 - Secondly, the cores. What if any is the advantage of quad-cores over 2-cores?
Do you only get an advantage if performing multiple tasks / using multiple programs at once?

5 - hyperthreading. I've only seen this mentioned on the higher-end processors, but I thought multiple cores had superceded this technology.

6 - AMD versus Intel. In general I've seen AMD A9 laptops quoting much faster processors at much lower prices than i5. So how do they really compare?

7 - AMD Ryzen has featured in a few of the models my wife has liked the look of, (Lenovo Yogapad). Can anyone tell me anything about these processors: are they to AMD's equivalent of an Intel Celeron?

Is it really simple a case of 'the faster the better, and the more cores the better'?
How would a slower processor with 4-cores compare realistically to a faster one with 2-cores?

Thanks in advance.

Computing

Comments

  • Godric on 28/09/2018 - 13:04
    +1

    Linus Tech Tips/TechQuickie on Youtube has done a video on most the questions you've asked

  • onevstheworld on 28/09/2018 - 13:23
    +5

    1) Faster and/or more cores and/or hyperthreading. But you have to look deeper into the specs. It's confusing because Intel's laptop processors don't always follow their desktop conventions.

    2) They get faster and/or more power efficient. Generally, the difference is small, so it's not worth fretting over if you can get a good deal for a previous gen part.

    3) Yes. Pentium is a budget line now.

    4) Yes, but programs themselves need to be written to take advantage of multiple cores… generally not many games do this but productivity and multimedia software does.

    5) Get hyperthreading if you can… the 2 techs co-exist.

    6 & 7) Don't get AMD's older processors… i.e. A9. Those are based on a pretty bad processor design. However, you can go for the Ryzen based processors… they are equivalent to the Core i3/5/7. Generally, AMD Ryzen has more cores, but Intel has higher Ghz. AMD's integrated GPU is more powerful than Intel's across the board. Finally, AMD tend to be better value… there is less premium attached to the brand.

    Whether you get faster or more cores depends on what you use it for:
    If games, get faster.
    If productivity, get more cores.
    If email and/or youtube, doesn't matter… probably save some money and get a Chromebook.

    I would say the Ryzen based systems she's seems to like is suitable.

    • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:06

      Thanks.

      This part sounds very helpful:
      "Whether you get faster or more cores depends on what you use it for:
      If games, get faster.
      If productivity, get more cores.
      If email and/or youtube, doesn't matter… probably save some money and get a Chromebook."
      Do Chromebooks have a problem with email and YouTube?

      She will very likely be using eMail, social media, YouTube and Office. For future work she'll be using Intranet management software that I'm not familiar with.

      • onevstheworld on 28/09/2018 - 16:33
        +1

        Chromebooks use a variant of Android. They have little storage, relying a lot on cloud storage. Their CPUs aren't very powerful, probably similar to a tablet.

        If the majority of her activities are done via a web browser or a popular app, it's probably ok. The limitation comes when you are offline, or if your program doesn't offer a Chromebook version.

        It's fine for email, YouTube and even Word/Excel (if you're happy to use Google's online versions of these programs). But I'm guessing it won't be compatible with her work software though.

    • N1NJ4W4RR10R on 28/09/2018 - 22:28
      +1

      To clarify on the ryzen - i line comparison, the ryzen 3 is comparable to the i3, ryzen 5 to i5 and ryzen 7 to i7.

  • HighAndDry on 28/09/2018 - 13:28
    +1

    1. General guidance to performance. i7 > i5 > i3. But the specific processor specs are more important than the labels.

    2. Newer generations are faster, more efficient, more IPC (more efficient in another way), runs cooler, more enterprise features on some - but all these only compared to their predecessor, so e.g. an older i5 may still be faster/better than a newer i3.

    3. It's still around as an Intel brand they use for lower level, more budget CPUs.

    4. In addition to being better when running multiple programs, some programs and some games can use multiple cores.

    5. No - only the higher level CPUs have hyperthreading, but it allows even more multi-tasking, so e.g. a 4-core CPU can have 8 threads.

    6. (Clock)Speed isn't the be-all and end-all, you have to look at IPC (Instructions-Per-Clock), but newer AMD Ryzen CPUs have closed the IPC gap so that you can for general use just compare clock-speed. AMD CPUs are just cheaper too - but especially for laptops, other factors like power-efficiency, thermal performance, etc also matter.

    7. AMD Ryzen are roughly equivalent to Intel's Core series. So Ryzen 3 ~ Core i3, Ryzen 5 ~ Core i5, etc. Roughly.

    Is it really simple a case of 'the faster the better, and the more cores the better'?

    Other than power-efficiency (so compare battery life - not just rated, but real world in reviews), and thermal performance (so check reviews for how hot the laptop gets), for most general use yes, just look at speed and cores, and whether they have hyperthreading.

    There are other differences between AMD and Intel CPUs but those are generally enterprise-level features you won't use or notice any differences in as a consumer.

    • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:20

      Thanks, HighAndDry. Very helpful reply.

    • sane on 28/09/2018 - 18:01

      AMD Ryzen are roughly equivalent to Intel's Core series. So Ryzen 3 ~ Core i3, Ryzen 5 ~ Core i5, etc. Roughly.

      Not really. The number tends to be related to the number of cores, so Ryzen 3 = 4 cores, Ryzen 5 = 6 cores, Ryzen 7 = 8 cores. Intel doesn't even have an 8 core desktop part yet, and they will be calling that an i9. Marketeers should be shot.

      To the OP, the Ryzen processors are why Intel are losing market share and stock market price at a rate of knots. They are very good, and at low prices, and have put a bomb under Intel's backside. The laptop parts don't work quite the same as the desktop, and the power budget is a key factor in all laptop parts (15W vs 25W TDP), but they are generally ahead of the Intel parts because they have non-crap graphics (Intel only has IGP).

      • HighAndDry on 28/09/2018 - 18:31
        +1

        Marketeers should be shot.

        Absolutely agreed - yeah the naming schemes are all over the place. It's like the roughest of rough comparisons though, because other than that I've no idea how to explain to OP how to compare processors from AMD and Intel.

    • DangerNoodle on 30/09/2018 - 06:45
      +1

      Regarding your answer to question 5, in terms of laptops, low end parts can have hyperthreading as well. Intel uses hyperthreading on dual core i3 processors to bump the thread count to 4. Some i5 processors in the 7000 series have hyperthreading as well.

      The other thing I would recommend to the OP is double check the core count. I don't know if Intel still do it but a couple years back the i5 can be in dual core and quad core variants. Looks like it is still the case with the 7000 series.

  • scrimshaw on 28/09/2018 - 13:43
    +2

    Most of the questions have already answered pretty well by comments above, but I'll just chip in with one advice — don't worry too much about the processor, if you're buying a laptop that's worth >$600~800 you are probably already getting something with sufficient processor performance.

    (Unless you're buying a convertible or a tablet, like a Surface Go, in which case those devices sacrifice power for portability)

    What you do have to look out for in a work laptop is mainly the display (so don't go buying the overpriced junk in Officeworks that have Core i7's but have 1366 x 768 TN displays), the build quality (a crappy touchpad will be infuriating to use) and battery life.

    Of course the battery life is not at all important if the laptop is a desktop replacement.

    • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:00

      Thanks, scrimshaw.

      While we didn't look at any Surface models, my wife quite liked the 2-in-1 Lenovo Yoga models.
      Her price mark is $600 - $800 as you said, but she might go a little higher. It's early days, but so far she has steered away from over $1,000 models (at JB and Officeworks prices).
      Are touchscreens in that price range likely to be poor?

      Also what resolution would you recommend for a work laptop?
      She's placing a lot of importnace on portability, size and weight. The ones she has been drawn to are around 14" displays which I think was about the size of her last work laptop. (She doesn't like my 15.6").

      • scrimshaw on 28/09/2018 - 14:06
        +1

        Minimum (1920 x 1080p) resolution

        screen size is a personal preference thing.

        A budget of $600 is probably going to be a bit low for a work laptop. It might be possible to pick up a refurbished model from Grays Online but for brand new models, expect to actually pay closer to a $1000 for a model with decent specifications.

        Other options include

        • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:19

          Yes, I think what we saw initially was more around $800-$1,000 in JB Hifi, but I'm hoping to find better prices than they had in store.
          We saw Pentium and AMD A9 models at about $600- 700, a pricetag which appealed to her - and that's why I included those processors in my questions.

          RE: 1080p resolution. Is that really necessary? My 15.6" laptop has a 1366 x 768 display (and while I will admit it's not a stunning display I don't really have an issue in general - it doesn't look great to watch vidoes on, and it mismatches with the TV resolution when connected via HDMI but for most of what I use it for it seems ok. Am I missing something?

          (PS it's about 6 years old but this is probably one of those overpriced i7 models lol - it has great specs on paper but overheats too easily and never gets near performing moderately demanding tasks).

          • scrimshaw on 28/09/2018 - 14:27

            @sam buster: Productivity. a higher resolution lets you see more of a document or web page.

          • HighAndDry on 28/09/2018 - 14:38

            @sam buster:

            Am I missing something?

            Just the fact that that's for a laptop you've been using from 6 years ago to now, and this new laptop is one your wife will (presumably) be using from now to 6 years into the future. Nothing is 'necessary' but anything less than 1080p on a laptop these days is already hopelessly outdated, and will be obsolete pretty much immediately.

  • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:32

    Just looking back on the photos of the models my wife preferred this morning - largely due to price.

    It seems the two favourites have a Pentium 4415U (@2.3 Ghz) and an AMD A9-9425. The prices were $899 and $799 respectively.
    Are these poor processors for this price range?

    The salesman seemed to be promoting the Pentium on it's "Pentium Gold" sticker.

    • HighAndDry on 28/09/2018 - 14:41
      +1

      …… Don't listen to the salesman. Especially for something you wife will be using for work and with work intranet management software (so stuff will be going on in background processes a lot), a Pentium or A9 laptop will be solidly below the sweet spot for value-for-money.

      I'd get something with at least a Core i3 or an Ryzen 3, leaning towards Ryzen 3 because of its better integrated graphics.

      Examples of past deals for what would be far better options:

      ThinkPad Ryzen E485 (14" FHD IPS/Ryzen 5 2500U/8GB DDR4/128GB NVMe) $809.10, E585 (15.6" FHD) $854.10 @Lenovo AU (+10% ShopBack)

      Dell Inspiron 15 5575 Laptop (Ryzen 7 2700U, 8GB DDR4, 256GB NVMe, 15.6" FHD) $959.20

      Lenovo Yoga 530 - 14" FHD Touch/AMD Ryzen 5/8GB/128GB NVMe $695.20 Delivered

      Etc.

      • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:56

        Thank you. The pentium gold was a Yoga 530 14" but that Grays Online deal is a better specced version for less. Hopefully something like that will come up again.

      • Randxyz123 on 28/09/2018 - 16:24

        This.

        Consumer laptops from JB or HN or OW are always crap. Almost never have SSDs, have crap processors and will break after the warranty is done and you'll have to buy a new one. What I'd suggest is buying directly from Lenovo or DELL

        The Dell refurb store is a favourite on here. Or their eBay store is good as well.

        Depending on your BUDGET?? Either suggested above would be fine…

        You'd want

        Dedicated or inbuilt graphics

        i5

        MIN 8GB RAM

        MIN 256SSD

    • scrimshaw on 28/09/2018 - 14:49

      If you're buying from a brick and mortar store you'll be paying a price premium because they have margins and also wages to pay.

      Buy direct from Lenovo (and earn some cashback while you're at it) or buy from eBay.

      • sam buster on 28/09/2018 - 14:57

        Thanks. I've noticed in the past that JB stores often even don't always display their own promotion prices.

    • onevstheworld on 28/09/2018 - 16:46
      +1

      Both are terrible choices.

      AMD's old laptop chips were miles behind Intel's in both performance and power efficiency.

      Pentium is better, but it's effectively an obsolete chip too.

      Like Highanddry suggests, at very least, go with an i3 or Ryzen 3.

  • Tim55 on 28/09/2018 - 17:27

    6 - AMD versus Intel. In general, I've seen AMD A9 laptops quoting much faster processors at much lower prices than i5. So how do they really compare?

    Intel Processors are more reliable and Strong then AMD, as they are in processor manufacturing from a longer time then AMD.

    • zaddaz on 30/09/2018 - 13:14

      Both companies have been around for decades.

      The main difference is for the last 10+ years intel has had better performance and power efficiency, making them a clear winner for laptops -heat and battery considerations.

      AMD latest architecture, Ryzen, is now roughly on par with intel. So depends on pricing.

  • sam buster on 29/09/2018 - 06:47

    Thanks for all the replies and advice, everyone.
    It's very much appreciated.

  • urzu on 29/09/2018 - 20:50
    +1

    My advice would be to make sure you get something with a SSD instead of a HDD. Less storage, yes, but so much faster and much more reliable. Even a very average CPU will perform nicely when coupled with a SSD drive.

    • So lo on 30/09/2018 - 08:07

      Also, when a computer runs out of RAM it uses what is called a Paging File on the storage device to simulate more RAM existing. If it has to use a HDD to do this, this basically breaks the user experience - a HDD just can't keep up.

  • This Guy on 29/09/2018 - 22:14
    +1

    None of your questions are relevant. What matters is the form factor the wife wants and SSD/RAM

    An SSD will make far more of a difference than the jump from a modern Pentium to i7.

    An SSD is the most important part. Do not buy a laptop with out one. The new computer will become slow/feel broken in 6 months to 2 years with out one.

    8GB of RAM is a minimum.

    Windows is mandatory if she wants it for work. A Chromebook would be a silly gamble if she doesn't know who her employer is going to be.

    If she can live with a 15', I suggest an Inspiron 15 3000 for $600

    If she wants 14", 2-in-1 with touch screen, Dell has the New Inspiron 14 5000 2-in-1 for $959

    If she wants a quad core and double the storage, this would be the upgraded model to go at $1,274

  • stumo on 30/09/2018 - 10:49

    One thing missing from the above is throttling.

    Some laptops have poorly designed thermal management and/or cheap voltage regulators. They get around this by throttling the cpu.

    So after a few seconds of load that i7 you paid extra for, will clock itself down to perform no better than a cheap i3.

    So once you have seen a model that you want to buy, check reviews online and search for "throttle" to make sure you arent being conned.

  • zaddaz on 30/09/2018 - 13:07

    In summary laptops always a compromise on:

    Screen/build quality
    Performance
    Portability
    Price

    For me:
    Windows and SSD is essential

    For performance get the current generation of processor: ryzen or i3 (8xxx). She doesn't actually need much performance, my wife's desktop has a 5 year old pentium dual core 2.4ghz and runs office/web perfectly (has an old dedicated graphics card). Just don't get intel core M (super low power processors for ultrabooks).
    Throttling is never listed in the specs, you must check the reviews for the 2018 laptop design (usually are tested with the most powerful processor).

    Screen:
    I highly recommend 1920x1080 (unless 13inch). The 1366x720 screens use the cheapest technology (poor contrast ratio 300:1, poor colours and bad viewing angles). She will be looking at the screen all day.

    15inch standard size (2-3kg) are cheapest. Smaller or lighter you start to pay for the portability.

  • sam buster on 03/10/2018 - 19:05

    Thanks for all the replies and advice.
    Plenty to consider and I feel much enlightened.

    Very much appreciated.

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