First Time Going to Court for Red Light Offence, Any Advice?

[Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 19:43
Last edited 23/10/2018 - 10:29 by 2 other users

Hi all, I have court coming up for a red light violation that happened a few months ago. I am on red P's and this was my first offence.

It happened in the narrow streets of Parramatta Road. My rear tire was only on 1/3rd of the white line and it was just so insignificant. I was not speeding at all but I thought I saw the light too late to brake and figured it would be fine to go but clearly it wasn't. A few weeks later I got hit with the fine and then I appealed for it to be decided in court, and court is due tomorrow.

I actually don't know the first thing about court.

What are some tips? I will plead guilty because the image shows me over the line but I want reduced penalty as it's my first offence and I didnt think it would have been safe to brake to a stop.

Thanks guys, real nervous for tomorrow.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • hawkeye on 22/10/2018 - 19:49
    +24

    You'll incur court costs + fine if you can still pay it now I would

  • spackbace on 22/10/2018 - 19:59
    +29

    Wasn't safe to stop? The orange/yellow light lasts for like 3-4 seconds, if you're doing 50-60kph you had time to stop, you just weren't aware of your surroundings (checking that text were you?)

    Should've just paid the fine. You'll end up with the fine + court costs now.

    The judge will want to make an example out of you, being a p-plater and (I'm guessing) young.

    • kerfuffle on 22/10/2018 - 20:06

      International student, too

      • tomlikesbeetroot on 23/10/2018 - 21:54
        -2

        Down voted for racism

        • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 22:18

          I'm out of votes, but downvoted for assuming all international students are of a different race, or really any set race?

    • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 21:21
      +7

      I’ve done the maths on this multiple times, Spack. People just won’t listen. They see the yellow from 50 to 60+ metres away and still think they can make it.

      I bet with 3 points, $450 fine and court costs, OP might think it’s not so “insignificant” next time they encounter a yellow light…

      • lostn on 23/10/2018 - 17:37

        If you're in an 80kph zone, it takes more than 60m to safely brake.

        • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 18:13
          +1

          If you're going 80km/h, it takes you only 2.7secs to cover that 60m.

          The shortest an amber light can legally be set at in NSW is 3 seconds, and that's for roads with far lower speed limits.

          • pegaxs on 23/10/2018 - 19:38

            @HighAndDry: According to RMS documents, the minimum typical setting for 80km/h zones is yellow for 5 seconds.

            At 80km/h, you will travel approximately 110m in that 5 seconds. Ample time to bring any average car to a stop.

    • tomlikesbeetroot on 23/10/2018 - 21:54
      -2

      No idea how this post has been upvoted so many times. Down voted for agism.

      • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 22:19

        *ageism.

        If you're going to throw random -isms around, at least be considerate and learn how to spell them.

        • gimli on 23/10/2018 - 22:24

          Maybe you should check if there are alternative spelling options…

          • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 22:32
            +1

            @gimli: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=agism

            Showing results for ageism
            Search instead for agism

            Other than Google having 4.06mil results for "ageism" vs 301k results for "agism", basically every authority exclusively uses "ageism" as the correct term.

            Though okay, to be completely fair "agism" is a somewhat accepted alternative spelling so I shouldn't have been so snarky.

  • Scrooge McDuck on 22/10/2018 - 20:03

    Say that you were old friends and the money was a gift.

  • djkelly69 on 22/10/2018 - 20:07
    +15

    Unless you have some actual legal arguments as to why you shouldn't be fined, you are wasting your, and more importantly the court's, time.

    I wouldn't think they will look particularly kindly on someone wasting everyone's time to come to court and just plead guilty.

    • cameldownunder on 23/10/2018 - 15:39
      +5

      Red P and first infraction is running a red light ? If I was the Judge, I'll have your license revoked.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 20:09
    +41

    You'd want to leverage the jury, get them to sympathize with you. Plead the 5th when you are addressed. Yell "objection!" If you hear something you don't like. Tell the judge to lighten up.

    Good luck :)

    • djkelly69 on 22/10/2018 - 20:12
      +13

      Don't forget the vibe/mabo.

    • kahn on 22/10/2018 - 21:41
      +16

      Surprise witnesses! Each more surprising than the last. I tell ya, the judge won't know what hit him.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 22:31
        +4

        That reminds me - hit on the judge.

        • CocaKoala on 23/10/2018 - 12:25

          You have some seriously valuable advise. :-)

          • [Deactivated] on 23/10/2018 - 12:34

            @CocaKoala: When you've been to food court as much as I have, you learn a thing or three.

    • DonWilson on 23/10/2018 - 18:34
      +2

      AM I BEING DETAINED? AM I FREE TO GO?!?

  • altomic on 22/10/2018 - 20:30
    +3

    just say your friend Teresa Brennan was driving. you'll be fine.

    seriously?!? pay the fine. traffic lights are set up to a set schedule which has been determined by the RTA to be safe.

    if you didn't think it was safe to stop then you were not driving safely as per RTA standards.

    you don't have a hope.

    cop it on the chin and drive more carefully.

  • thatonethere on 22/10/2018 - 20:32
    +6

    Probably need more than one night to prepare. Better to have legal rep.

    Normally:

    1. Go visit court on a day prior to the date to see what it is like
    2. Have some written character references (have duplicates)
    3. Dress nice, be polite, speak up, show regret and hope for the best when you admit fault
  • Ace Ventura on 22/10/2018 - 20:44
    +2

    From what I know, appealing, and losing will likely give you an increased penalty. You will have to pay court costs on top of the penalty. The penalty may also increase. May not too. That one will be the attitude test.

    Personally I wouldnt appeal unless I was looking to plead innocent and could prove it.

  • Brucet on 22/10/2018 - 20:56
    +2

    God bless you.

  • rgr on 22/10/2018 - 21:01
    +6

    LMAO appealed for a red light run? cmon brehhh

  • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 21:06
    +27

    Quickly generate an MS Paint diagram for the magistrate. Use plenty of colour and bold shapes to confuse the magistrate into believing you are in fact a very safe and competent driver.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 21:10

      Don't forget to mention you know Scotty and tightarse.

    • kahn on 22/10/2018 - 21:45
      +3

      Throw in the Chewbacca Defense as well, just to be safe.

  • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 21:12
    +12

    and it was just so insignificant.

    I just love this attitude to driving…

    Until that day you run a yellow/red and hit someone stepping out onto the pedestrian crossing. Not so insignificant then…

    • orangetrain on 23/10/2018 - 12:25

      From what op says, this is stopping at a just-occurred red light. Unlikely to hit someone. I'd wager that op was probably blocking pedestrians or cars. Then when they moved, it looked like op was running a red.

      Still a fine. I'd like it if there was fines for queuing because lately I'm seeing people refuse to move due to red light camera concerns now (because of op stories etc)

      • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 16:08
        +1

        I don't think OP stopped:

        I thought I saw the light too late to brake and figured it would be fine to go but clearly it wasn't.

        He went straight through it. If he stopped, the fine wouldn't have been sent because a review would show his car still at the lights after it triggered.

  • p1 ama on 22/10/2018 - 21:25
    +6

    The first step is to educate yourself about the court process and your chances of winning.

    1) You don't have to prove anything in court, so you should get out of the mindset of trying to justify why you did what you did. You are trying to defend a charge in court, the more you say, the more you can screw up. It's not your job to convince people you are innocent. If you choose to plead not guilty, you are already innocent. It is the job of the prosecutor to try and paint you to be guilty.

    2) There are two outcomes if you plead not guilty, you either get convicted and you will likely end up paying the fine plus court costs (which are around $120, I think), or you will have the matter dismissed. Again, you do not have to try and prove you are innocent, your aim is to show that the prosecution cannot prove your guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

    3) Consider the statistics. Most people here are think you deserve the fine for doing something stupid. I'm not going to comment any moral aspects of whether you should pay your fine. The statistics show that over 3/8 of cases are dismissed. In other words, you have more than a 3/8 chance of ending up not paying the fine. Anybody saying that you will be made an example of because you are young is not basing that off any statistics.

    I'm not sure what the situation is in NSW, but here are the statistics for VIC: https://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au/sacstat/magistrates…

    As you can see, for the age group 18 - 19, you have about an equal chance of getting the fine vs. having the matter dismissed. This is if we ignore you going to prison or getting a community correction order, which are not going to be the case for your offence.

    • spackbace on 22/10/2018 - 21:27
      +6

       You don't have to prove anything in court, so you should get out of the mindset of trying to justify why you did what you did.

      Photo shows car over the line. Photo shows the light is red.

      Yep totally a hard case to prosecute 😂

      • knobbs on 22/10/2018 - 21:47
        +2

        Car being over the line is fine when the light is red. It has to show the light was red BEFORE the car was over the line.

        • spackbace on 22/10/2018 - 21:48
          +3

          This is why there's 2 photos…

          • knobbs on 22/10/2018 - 21:49

            @spackbace: I've never dealt/been charged with a red light offence so didn't know there were two photos. OP only mentioned 1

            Also does anyone have the definition of running a red light? Like does it have to be the front of the bumper/wheel/rear wheel/bumper for calculating the red light infringement?

              • knobbs on 22/10/2018 - 22:40

                @AdosHouse: Thanks for the link, however it doesn't really detail and leaves it up for interpretation.

                • did not stop at a red light as close to but before the stop line

                Using that I would say if any part of your car say front wheel is past the stop line when the light goes red you should be fine as you can't stop behind the line once the light has gone red, you are already past it.

            • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 22:40
              +2

              @knobbs:

              Also does anyone have the definition of running a red light?

              Yeah. Google “Australian Road Rules 2014” and scroll down to the reg about stopping at yellow and red traffic signals. (*spoiler alert* It starts about Part 6, regulation 56 and 57)

      • p1 ama on 22/10/2018 - 22:51
        +1

        Yep totally a hard case to prosecute 😂

        You're making an emotional argument without considering any facts about the case. Sure, perhaps the guy deserves to get fined, but that's not the question that's being asked in court. The question is whether the prosecution can show beyond a reasonable doubt that this guy broke that particular law.

        Photo shows car over the line. Photo shows the light is red.

        This alone does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the offence was committed. There are other factors that need to be considered, e.g. whether the camera was correctly calibrated, whether its compliance certificates are up to date…etc.

        Again, you can be smug about this all you want, but the facts are the facts, 37.5% of cases are dismissed. How do you know OP's case won't be one of those?

        • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 23:02

          prosecution can show beyond a reasonable doubt…

          This isn’t a US soap opera TV show. There is no “beyond reasonable doubt” in magistrates court. It’s something like “weight of probability” that applies. (I forgot at this late hour what the actual term is for what a magistrate uses.)

          And that 38% of cases that got dismissed? Does it say why or what those cases were for? We’re they all “running red lights” infringements? We’re they all dismissed on “faulty equipment”? Or are they just lumping everything from “shitting on your neighbors lawn” and “snatching a handbag” in with the rest?

          They don’t even need the photos, as eye witness statements can be more than enough. But photos… boy, do they help seal the deal.

          But yeah, sure, the machines could be out, but you would need to start looking at getting a lawyer and hiring industry experts and taking days to prepare a case… all for what? A $448 fine. Talk about cutting one’s nose off to spite their face…

          • p1 ama on 22/10/2018 - 23:11
            +3

            @pegaxs:

            This isn’t a US soap opera TV show. There is no “beyond reasonable doubt” in magistrates court. It’s something like “weight of probability” that applies. (I forgot at this late hour what the actual term is for what a magistrate uses.)

            No, this is a criminal case, so it is beyond reasonable doubt. You're talking about civil cases, which use a different standard of proof, i.e. on the balance of probabilities.

            And that 38% of cases that got dismissed? Does it say why or what those cases were for? We’re they all “running red lights” infringements? We’re they all dismissed on “faulty equipment”? Or are they just lumping everything from “shitting on your neighbors lawn” and “snatching a handbag” in with the rest?

            Did you even look at the data? Look at the data before you start jumping up and down. The data is specifically for the infringement of running a red light in Victoria.

            But yeah, sure, the machines could be out, but you would need to start looking at getting a lawyer and hiring industry experts and taking days to prepare a case… all for what? A $448 fine. Talk about cutting one’s nose off to spite their face…

            This is OP's decision. You might not make the same decision as him and in his situation, you might choose to pay the fine. That doesn't change the facts I'm presenting.

            I'm not saying that what OP is doing is a good idea, I'm not saying that OP deserves sympathy, I'm not making any moral judgements on OP's behalf (i.e. cutting one's nose off…). If OP wishes to do that, it's up to him. However, he should know the facts, which are more than just "you're always gonna lose".

            • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 23:16
              +2

              @p1 ama: Lol… of that 38% (just started reading it now…) this portion is lumped in with “adjourned” and “undertaking” in it as well. It isn’t a 38% dismissal rate… pure dismissals alone could be as low as 1%. Any hard figures on just dismissals alone??

              It also says that OP stands a 12.5% chance of imprisonment… lol. Sure we are reading the right stats here? You are basically suggesting that 1 in every 8 traffic light infringements fought in court actually ends in jail time? :D

              Maybe for OP it’s not a “case” but a “charge”? 70% chance of copping a fine, but no chance of doing jail time over there in that column. :D (and only a 27% chance of adjournment/undertaking/discharge/dismissal.)

              If ya’ gonna quote stats, make sure you quote the relevant ones. Not the ones that make your story look good. Or to quote a famous poster… “did you even read the stats before you jumped up and down…” (also note that OP is in NSW, so your statistics are even less useful)

              As for your further diatribe… I can’t be bothered. It’s late and you’re probably wrong again and I’m too tired to care.

            • Changskies on 23/10/2018 - 07:17

              @p1 ama: ???? Sorry youre giving a legal advice when it is much more simpler for OP to pay the fine.

          • djkelly69 on 22/10/2018 - 23:47
            +2

            @pegaxs:

            There is no “beyond reasonable doubt” in magistrates court. It’s something like “weight of probability” that applies.

            Beyond reasonable doubt is for criminal, balance of probabilities is for civil. It doesn't matter what court you are in as to what standard applies.

            • pegaxs on 22/10/2018 - 23:59

              @djkelly69: Ahhh.. balance of probabilities, that’s what I was looking for… and yes, civil. Makes sense. Thanks for that.

      • [Deactivated] on 23/10/2018 - 16:13

        I know one person who beat a red light charge, but there was no photo, he had 3 witnesses and the police testimony was deemed to be unreliable (they claimed they saw something clearly from a distance which was basically impossible).

        That said, if they lost the costs may have been substantial, as the prosecutor brought all sorts of witnesses to testify about traffic light timings etc. (Which he didn't contest, his argument was that it wasn't red.)

        If they have a photo, even without an earlier photo, they'll bring in someone who will testify how long before it was red that it would have been yellow, and the argument will be that at the speed limit you should have been driving slow enough to have stopped before it went red. They'll measure where the car is in the photo, the time after red it was taken, do calculations etc.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 21:37

    You're going to lose and pay even more than if you had just paid the fine.

    I don't know about NSW but in WA the matter wont even be dealt with on the first mention. It will be dealt with on the second or maybe even the 3rd. When you go to court if you are reprenting yourself you get pushed to the end of the day, so don't stress about getting there on time. Spending a day in court is a real eye opening exeperience.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 21:52
    +2

    There is a whole lot of crap written here.

    It isn't a done deal until you lose.

    Having been there and done that and after being knocked back by Revenue NSW with my 2 page explanation I took it to court pleading guilty with an explanation. The Magistrate had my letter to Revenue NSW and spent some time reading and I guess absorbing it.

    She than said "I find you guilty without proceeding to a conviction." The whole time I only spoke 2 words…thank you.

    I am not on Ps, more a mature driver.

    I am in NSW and mine was heard on the day and yes it was an eye opener.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 23/10/2018 - 18:26

      So did you still have to pay the fine?

      • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2018 - 00:02

        thanks, i wrote a letter and all i had to say was "yes your honor, i plead guilty" and he read through and said okay the court decided that you will pay a reduced fine of 100 and i said thank you and walked out.

  • askme69 on 22/10/2018 - 21:53
    +1

    If the CAN (Court Attendance Notice) hasn't been issued yet. Send SDRO and email and ask to cancel it.

    Pay the fine.

    You will not get off on your P's, guaranteed.

  • WreckTangle on 22/10/2018 - 22:01

    How much is court costs as a ballpark figure?

    • p1 ama on 22/10/2018 - 22:51

      $120 or so

  • SydStrand on 22/10/2018 - 22:30

    Everyone is a first offender sometime. Eat the fine. There's no way court costs will be less.

  • Butt Scratcher on 22/10/2018 - 22:40

    First offence on your red P's really doesn't mean much. You aren't going to get much leniency for that if that's what your're expecting since it's you "first offence".

    You haven't really mentioned any good reasons why you are taking it to court. It isn't going to go well if all you have is that it was your first offence.

    If you are in a difficult financial position, you might be able to make some submissions regarding that.

    Expect to lose your licence (3 months i think?) unless you've prepared a good reason to have it despite your offence (usually work requirements is good)

    • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 09:44
      -1

      If you are in a difficult financial position, you might be able to make some submissions regarding that.

      I hate that this is actually effective advice. It is - but it's stupid because OP's "difficult financial position" is completely down to their own irresponsibility.

  • Ozbargainite on 22/10/2018 - 22:54
    +9

    Take it all the way to the high court.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/10/2018 - 22:58

      Blame mabo?

      • boomramada on 23/10/2018 - 09:47

        No, Parents!

        • MrBear on 23/10/2018 - 10:18

          No, baby boomers!

      • WhyAmICommenting on 23/10/2018 - 18:27

        Well, it's the vibe of the thing…

  • roastchook on 22/10/2018 - 23:04
    +2

    Yes. Do this. You might get to meet the dogpark video guy.

  • Randxyz123 on 22/10/2018 - 23:09
    +3

    Oh deary me it's you again… Can you actually afford this??

    My, advise?

    Just pay the fine…What is it with people and not paying fines when they get them.

    You get a parking/traffic fine. You swear, double check it was you and then pay the damn thing.

    Even if you thought you went through an amber light. That is still an offence.

    Anyway too late now. Not turning up will make it worse.

    Dress nicely - Chinos, button-down shirt, brown/black shoes. Probably don't need a suit. Jeans and a tshirt is not ok though.

    Call the judge/magistrate "Sir/Ma'am" or "Your Honor"

    Admit you screwed up, show remorse and tell him/her that in the future you will be extremely careful.

    Your first offence on your P's means nothing. You are a young driver. You don't have experience and you shouldn't be going through red lights. Not like you have been driving for 10 years without a ticket. Because even then you don't get a warning.

    You might want to talk about your financial situation. That you are working to improve it but would really struggle if you had to pay this fine as well the fact that you'll struggle to get to work without a car.

    Good luck!

  • tsunamisurfer on 23/10/2018 - 00:19

    OP Congrats.

    By the end of this you would have wasted the court's time and your own.

    This process should be pretty quick though, the longest part is trying to get the court staff to stop laughing at your rationale.

    Thankfully you will be given a chance to pay the court costs on top of your full fine.

    Well done.

  • Godric on 23/10/2018 - 07:11

    I went through red & green P's without ever getting 1 fine, let alone ever even being pulled over by a cop. No relevance to OP but I like being the minority in that

    • WhyAmICommenting on 23/10/2018 - 18:28

      I got pulled over by a cop today. Doesn't mean I did anything wrong.

    • Nick939 on 23/10/2018 - 19:00

      Would also have to factor in how often you drive, as well as which city you are in.

  • DarkOz on 23/10/2018 - 07:14
    -1

    Show some remorse, pay the fine and slow down in future. If you do go to court I hope the judge fines and disqualifies you to teach you a good lesson.

    • KBZ on 23/10/2018 - 11:28

      I find it odd this comment has a few negs when essentially everyone is saying the same thing.
      If its cause of the latter part of his sentence doesn't matter; OP is going to lose the case, maybe pay a bit more and will be disqualified since he is a Red P plater.

  • Ryanek on 23/10/2018 - 08:50
    +1

    Why are you going to court just to plead guilty? Crikey mate.

  • wolfazrael123 on 23/10/2018 - 09:09

    you already said you saw the light too late, and this is not an excuse. Pay the fine.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/10/2018 - 09:21
    +1

    Don't forget to update us with your progress today op.

  • Hithere on 23/10/2018 - 09:23

    The penalty/fine cannot be reduced.

    If you go to court you'll have to pay the fine, you'll still cop the demerit points PLUS you'll be up for court costs.

    The magistrate has heard all the excuses under the sun before so don't waste their time.

    Pay the fine today if possible. They may give you time to pay or put you on a payment plan.

  • HighAndDry on 23/10/2018 - 09:32
    +4

    Take out a credit card to pay for the fine!

    No but seriously, don't contest this.

    I am on red P and this was my first offense.

    Being your first offence when you're still on RED Ps means absolutely nothing. You're on RED Ps, you shouldn't even be coming close to running red lights, you should still be driving extremely carefully. Honestly I hope you lose your licence so you actually learn a lesson before you hurt someone considering you're still trying to minimise and excuse what you did.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/10/2018 - 09:41

    you are an idiot almost no one wins in traffic court unless you got medical reasons you are going to pay the court costs and your fine…

  • hooyn on 23/10/2018 - 09:52
    +1

    Do the crime, do the time.

  • CAPTCHHHA on 23/10/2018 - 11:13

    I have a question here , might be unrelated. Say I am driving behind a truck and have no visibility of whats happening further down the road. Comes a green light and I realize after crossing the stop line that there is no room for me on the other side of the road while the truck barely managed to make it. So I am left stranded, half of my car over the stop line and light turns red and I get a fine. Can this be contested?

    • rave75 on 23/10/2018 - 11:20

      That's what happened to me, I was behind a double decker bus.

    • dannyboi on 23/10/2018 - 11:32
      +2

      I understand they take two photos to show your movement. As long as you stay still or are able to reverse back, I think you won’t get a fine for passing a red.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2018 - 00:04

      nope, there were a tonnnne of cases like this and the court dismissed it straightaway saying it is your responsibility to check all lights, ranging from 3 to 4 in some streets

      • CAPTCHHHA on 24/10/2018 - 00:11

        And if your view is obstructed what does the court suggest you should do?

        • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2018 - 00:21

          there was this guy, super gentle and showing remorse, i thought that the court was probably going to give him 0 fine (i was following the trend, say the right things, court will sympathize for you, say the wrong things, he will hold it against you and give you the same fine) but it turns out, court got pissed at him because he kept saying he admits his fault but he didnt have clear sight of the lights due to large truck in front. Court said it is your duty to slow down and check all the different lights and in most of those cases, like i said, there were 3/4 lights and court would not budge and always gave them same fine.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2018 - 00:22

          he suggested that the driver either gets a vision test from rms or be more responsible.

  • rave75 on 23/10/2018 - 11:19

    I crossed the line literally 5cm of my rear bumper ( I have a mid size sedan). Best to cop the fine.

    • CAPTCHHHA on 23/10/2018 - 11:24

      Doesn't really seem right to cop the fine for something completely out of your control. It hasn't really happened to me yet but have had many narrow misses. Generally drive around busy streets where something like this is inevitable.

      • rave75 on 23/10/2018 - 11:27

        Well if you see yellow, it means prepare to stop and not take chances whether you can make it or not. In my case, I shouldn't drive too close to a double-decker bus and pay more attention to the light.

        • CAPTCHHHA on 23/10/2018 - 11:29

          What if it was still green?

          • rave75 on 23/10/2018 - 11:30
            +1

            @CAPTCHHHA: green means go, well unless you see the intersection is packed. Oh by the way, someone mentioned, if you hasn't cross the line fully, the 2nd picture taken will show that you didn't go through the line which mean you won't get fines

    • abb on 23/10/2018 - 14:22
      +1

      Rear bumper? Were you reversing down a busy road? Sounds a little dangerous.

      • rave75 on 23/10/2018 - 14:34

        When it turned red, 5cm of my rear bumper was still before the line hence the camera caught me.

        • abb on 23/10/2018 - 17:22

          The law only prohibits "entering" the intersection on red. So, if you were unable to safely stop while the light was orange, you would have had a good case to argue. I suspect, however, that you were perfectly able to stop for the orange and rather chose not to. Still, bad luck getting pinged for it, I reckon we've all had close calls like that.

  • happirt on 23/10/2018 - 11:33
    -1

    uhh, you might save demerit points but you'll end up paying more in court fees…

  • macrocephalic on 23/10/2018 - 11:55

    You won't necessarily get an increased fine. A few years ago I got a red light offense in Vic (I'm from Qld). At the time I thought there was grounds for appeal, so I sent the appeal form in. Later, but before my court case, further investigation showed that my grounds weren't there (or at least not visible in the photos). Getting down to Melbourne might have been worth it if I had a good chance of having the fine overturned, but it wasn't worth it to just plead guilty, so I wrote a letter to the court asking to have my appeal revoked. Presumably the judge read this and simply decided on the matter straight away. I got a fine from the court for the same dollar value as the original fine - which I paid.

  • mattyman on 23/10/2018 - 13:16

    Best advice I can give is don't drive over the white line when the light is red.

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