Does Landlord Have The Right to Ban Friend Stay over?

Lgila24 on 11/11/2018 - 14:49
Last edited 17/11/2018 - 20:56 by 1 other user

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, any answer will be appreciated.

I live a granny flat in my landlady's backyard. Occasionally my friends will come and stay over for a night if we hang out around this area. This usually happens less than twice a month and on weekend only. We just stay inside playing video games or watching some stuff before going to bed. No party no loud noise at night.

Yesterday a friend came and stayed, and this morning I received a text message from my landlady asking me have I brought anyone home last night. I replied yes. She was grumpy and angry in her second text, asking me do not bring anyone home again for the safety of myself and her family and telling me that she feels uncomfortable if there are strangers in her backyard.

I have not yet replied to her second message, I'd like to know does she have the right to regulate my social life and privacy?
No agent involved in this case, it's a private renting agreement.

Thanks in advance.

Update:

Thanks to everyone for sharing. I took advice from some replies and had a very open conversation with the landlady.

In the conversation, I started with an apology for not letting her know that I'll have a guest in advance. Then I told her that I do have social needs like anybody else that I feel good when someone stays with me for a night or two. However, she's been slut-shaming me from her moral highland for bringing a boy home when I'm still single (I'm 29 btw). The conversation was intense in which I started to question my self-worth. Anyway, she insisted the 'no guest' policy and said she chose me to be the tenant cuz she thought being a single female I wouldn't bring anyone home.

So, after that conversation I decided to move out. Now I'm looking for a 2B apartment to move in, no private renting, agent only.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • bobbified on 11/11/2018 - 14:53
    +15

    No agent involved in this case, it's a private renting agreement.

    What's in the agreement?

    If there's no agreement, then it's time to start negotiating. Ultimately, it's her place and if you can't come to a mutual agreement, then you have the option to move out.

    • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 14:59
      +4

      Just private renting, nothing specific.
      We did lodge the bond but she never gives me a written contract to sign.
      However, we did agree that I'm the only tenant.

        • grrrr on 11/11/2018 - 17:23
          +41

          close to what line? That is just as absurd as the land lord getting upset.

          You can have house guests and they can stay the night.

          What if you friend had 1 too many passion pops and couldn't drive home?

          • HighAndDry on 12/11/2018 - 10:41
            -5

            @grrrr: How many nights does your friend get to stay before they're living there effectively? I'm saying - regular overnights start getting close to the line. How close to the line depends on how regular it is.

        • Your Friend on 11/11/2018 - 17:43
          +92

          found the landlord

        • bargainhunter87 on 11/11/2018 - 23:13

          Close to what line? What if there was a personal reason where the friend had to stay? And how does staying the night change anything?

          silly

          • HighAndDry on 12/11/2018 - 10:42
            -5

            @bargainhunter87:

            What if there was a personal reason where the friend had to stay?

            Who cares?

            If the friend stays a lot of nights there, they'd be effectively living there. Of course staying the night changes things.

            • DonWilson on 12/11/2018 - 15:16

              @HighAndDry: Based on what OP said this is about once every 22 days.

              For a really strict ball buster arrangement you'd draw the line at about once every 4 days. For a normal, reasonable arrangement once every 2-3 days would be fine.

        • wyrmy on 12/11/2018 - 12:11
          +1

          "less than twice a month". Would make more sense if the landlord tried to draw a line, but she effectively said don't bring anyone over again.

      • bobbified on 11/11/2018 - 16:23
        +5

        Under normal renting circumstances, one with agent and tenant, having a guest stay over isn't a problem and there isn't even a need to notify the agent/landlord.

        However, as you already know, you don't necessarily fall under house circumstances. Since you don't have an agreement, you will need to discuss with the owner and something out. Unfortunately, your landlady lives right there so you cant exactly bend the rules after any agreements.

      • chillin222 on 12/11/2018 - 18:04
        +13

        If she lodged the bond and used the word "tenant" there's a very good chance the standard terms will be implied: https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/00… (for NSW).

        What this means is, no, she has no say over who your guests are. She could potentially argue you are the only one who can "ordinarily live at the premises" however you'd need to be having guests over 3-4 nights per week before you'd breach this term.

  • twinbag on 11/11/2018 - 15:08
    +6

    Probably not, but they have the right to terminate a tenancy.

  • Quantumcat on 11/11/2018 - 15:14
    +38

    You should be allowed to treat it as your home. I don't know what the official regulations are though.

    Maybe you could come back and say that she isn't allowed to have anyone over either, as you're concerned with your safety :-p

    • ChatCPT on 13/11/2018 - 11:36
      +1

      Gold! Sms her that reply

    • Cheese86 on 13/11/2018 - 12:13

      Really?
      I can't believe this comment has so many upvotes.

      Rules apply if you're living on someone's property or in close proximity to others, i.e. in a unit/apartment setup.
      For example, if you lived in an apartment, you shouldn't bring a bunch of rowdy mates over and party until after 11pm.

      If you want to do that, get a house or go to a pub.

      • Quantumcat on 13/11/2018 - 12:26
        +3

        Should you be allowed to have one guest over and have a quiet time chatting or playing video games though?

  • [Deactivated] on 11/11/2018 - 15:25
    +14

    Just tell the landlady you were up all night discussing American politics and your friend went back to their home to sleep.

    • MrGrinchy on 13/11/2018 - 14:25
      -2

      Once your friend is inside, she has no proof anyone is inside, unless she PERVES and spies and has cameras.
      So deny everything unless she has proof, "no, no friend over, just the tv on bitch"

      Post her phone no to the 10000 websites running spam phone calls from india too btw.

  • Seedy seed on 11/11/2018 - 15:26
    +30

    Simple, just tie her up somewhere, keep claiming centerlink for her and live happy ever after.

    • centrelink on 13/11/2018 - 08:53
      +1

      Why?

      • Kangal on 13/11/2018 - 09:35
        +1

        Some people take RDR2 far.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/11/2018 - 11:22

          every time I read that I wonder why people keep bringing up R2D2

  • chumlee on 11/11/2018 - 15:29
    +3

    Maybe she thinks you are bringing hookers/gigolo over

    • Flanders on 11/11/2018 - 23:51
      +27

      Landlady is getting jealous. Let her know your door (and bedsheets) always open !)
      edit Problem sorted, as OP mentions below

      Yes, it's an oral agreement

      • Kangal on 13/11/2018 - 09:36

        She seems like a pain in the ass

  • tranter on 11/11/2018 - 15:31
    +41

    In Qld, re Quiet Enjoyment (check in your state):

    Example 2. The property manager/owner cannot say who can visit the tenant at the property.

    https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Renting/During-a-tenancy/Living-i…

    Having an occasional visitor stay over is perfectly normal and allowed in most circumstances. It is your right.

  • mylovelyminion on 11/11/2018 - 15:41
    +21

    The simple answer is that no, the landlord cannot restrict you from having friends over. The only restrictions that apply can be in regards to the number of additional occupants in the property. Somebody visiting is not an occupant. If you do not have a written lease, then you will have an informal month to month lease. Just be aware that the landlord may elect to terminate the lease, at any time, and they only have to give you one months notice to move.

    • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 15:52

      Thanks. Yes, it's an oral agreement. The challenge is that I really like this granny flat and do not want to build tension between me and the landlady but she's particular about it. This stayover is literally the only one in the past 3 months.

      • toristo on 11/11/2018 - 16:03
        +38

        Good consideration.

        What you're legally entitled to and what you'll actually experience are 2 different things. If you like the place, ask if you can catch up for 10 mins to have a chat in person. Highlight that you like your place, and at the same time, also respect hers. You'd ask that she extends the same respect, but perhaps could help in understanding what the concern is with occasional guests. Maybe she has had bad tenants in the past that have soured things.

        If you start the conversation in an open and respectful way, you might uncover a way forward. If not, find a new house. It won't be the last thing that upsets her if she's worried about who is staying in your house.

        • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 16:40
          +1

          Yes, I think that's what I'll do next. Thanks.

          • sarasani on 11/11/2018 - 18:14
            +10

            @gila24: I understand that you don't want to stir things up. And that is generally a very good approach. But it's always good to know where you stand, from a legal perspective. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

            Now about that stick: in some states (such as QLD) it is illegal for a landlord to hold the bond; it MUST be lodged with the tennancies authority (RTA in QLD). If it's the same in your state or territory, and your landlord hasn't done that, she'd be in breach of the law.

            Also, a verbal contract is still a contract. It's just not as easily enforcable, but it's a contract nonetheless. As has been pointed out before, it wouldn't hurt to collect receipts from her for your cash payments.

            • Aneurism on 12/11/2018 - 21:09
              +2

              @sarasani: In Victoria I think it might be illegal to rent out a granny flat to a non relative or non dependant.

              If the OP raises a fuss and puts forward official queries there is some potential probability that they will lose their place to live.. and the landlord might lose their granny flat and might be subject to fines.

              So if this is happening in Victoria, the OP could try to settle this peacfully..or just look for a new place and report the landlord.

          • nikey2k27 on 12/11/2018 - 21:15
            +2

            @gila24: another thing is maybe let her meet your friend so she knows who he or she is.

          • AddNinja on 12/11/2018 - 21:31

            @gila24: Yeah - if your friends are decent, invite her over to meet them. Bake something. If all goes well, it will reenforce goodwill between you and will be good for her.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/11/2018 - 16:41
        +7

        Yes, it's an oral agreement.

        The term "verbal agreement" seems more appropriate on this occasion.

        • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 16:44

          maybe I should say oral contract, not perfect at my second language

          • bdl on 11/11/2018 - 18:09
            +2

            @gila24: "verbal contract" is also a better choice due to the dirty minds on ozb :)

      • cameldownunder on 12/11/2018 - 11:56
        +2

        Isn't it a VERBAL agreement ? Not an Oral one. With your kind of agreement she has your ass any time she wishes, there fore more an .nal agreement.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 11/11/2018 - 16:25
    +11

    Whilst I understand the notion that it's her home, my take on this would be, she should have considered this before deciding to rent her granny flat out.

    Having visitors is normal. Sometimes they might stay over/late. I don't think she has a leg to stand on.

    • Seedy seed on 11/11/2018 - 16:44
      +3

      Well if shes legless she could always stay at ops for a night 😂

  • whooah1979 on 11/11/2018 - 16:45
    +1

    it's a private renting agreement.

    Do you get a receipt for every time you pay rent? If no, then remind the landlord that you may want it in the future and for all the other payments form day one.

    • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 16:47

      of course not as she requires cash, and the bond we lodged was ridiculously low, just half of the actual rent

      • whooah1979 on 11/11/2018 - 16:51
        +31

        There you go. She is not declaring the rent as income. That’s your leverage.

        Does she receive Centrelink support? If yes, then that’s another card you may use.

        Ask her politely to respect your privacy.

        • trongy on 13/11/2018 - 08:51

          We don't know if she's declaring the rent as income.

          Another reason for wanting cash payments is to be able to deny a rental agreement exists if taken to VCAT. I don't think that VCAT would be able to access ATO records. If there's no paper trail the tenant can't prove tenancy. Typically these granny flats use the main houses utilities so there would be no utility bills. That also makes it easy for the owner to cut of power to the granny flat when evicting a tenant.

          A previous poster mentioned that it's illegal to rent out a granny flat in Victoria. I don't think that law is commonly enforced, but it may make it difficult for VCAT to rule in the tenants favour in a case like this.

          • antonthenet on 13/11/2018 - 14:56

            @trongy: There's no way she is declaring the income.

            Just mention the ATO to your landlord and you can have as many people over as you want.

            • trongy on 14/11/2018 - 11:05

              @antonthenet: What if the owner is retired, living off super and has taxable income below the that tax free threshold? She would have no incentive not to declare the income.

              I'm sure there's plenty of people not declaring income, but not everyone.

      • samfisher5986 on 12/11/2018 - 12:29

        Did you get an official receipt for your bond?

        At least in QLD you need to provide an official RTA receipt.

  • Donaldhump on 11/11/2018 - 16:57
    +7

    Use this to your advantage. Pick up chicks then tell them they must leave

    For the record I think it's rediculous, you can have a mate sleep over, maybe just introupduce that friend to her

    • John Kimble on 11/11/2018 - 17:06
      +3

      asking me do not bring anyone home again for the safety of myself and her family and telling me that she feels uncomfortable if there are strangers in her backyard.

      Yeah, introduce your friends to her beforehand, then they are no longer strangers and she has nothing to feel uncomfortable about.

  • tanksinatra on 11/11/2018 - 17:06
    +23

    No she doesn't have this right.

    I live a granny flat in my landlady's backyard.
    she feels uncomfortable if there are strangers in her backyard.

    Why is she renting out her granny flat if she is uncomfortable with strangers? :/

    • Cheese86 on 13/11/2018 - 12:16

      Well, aside from the obvious '1 stranger vs multiple strangers' difference, she has met OP but hasn't met the others.

  • p1 ama on 11/11/2018 - 17:32
    +1

    Basically, this is the situation. You're paying her cash to stay at her place. There is no rental agreement of any kind. No leases have been signed. You are also probably paying well below market rent. Right?

    Regardless of how you might feel about it, ultimately it is her place and she is letting you stay there. She can evict you at any moment without any notice because for all intents and purposes you're simply squatting at her place. She doesn't have a right to regulate your social life, but she does have a right to choose who she lets into her house.

    Imagine you own your own place and you're letting someone sleep over (perhaps they'll chip in some money). They then decide to bring someone else to sleep over as well. That's the situation you're in. She's not your landlord, you are not her tenant. There is no lease agreement. You are a friend sleeping over at her place. That's all.

    If you want the full rights of a tenant (including your right to privacy…etc.) then you should go out and get a proper lease. You'll probably pay more, but you can't have your cake and eat it as well.

    • whooah1979 on 11/11/2018 - 17:38
      +5

      We did lodge the bond

      they've an agreement of sorts seeing the landlord has lodged a bond. vcat or a magistrate may easily enforce a formal rental agreement.

    • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 17:45
      +1

      The rent is definitely not below the market rate, considering the facility and accessibility I'd say I probably pay a bit more than others would. But what you've said is exactly from a landlord's perspective, so true.

      • mylovelyminion on 11/11/2018 - 18:01
        +20

        As a law graduate, I can emphasise that you DO have a lease with the owner of the property. You have the same rights and restrictions as the standard rental contracts that are available in your state. A written lease allows landlords and tenants to make alterations to the standard leases that are available. As you have an oral lease, you simply have the same rights and restrictions that are contained within the standard lease of your state.

        The landlord cannot evict you at any moment, they can give you a 30 day notice to vacate the granny flat but that is all. Bonds can only be one months rent in NSW, I can't imagine it is different in any other state. If the bond is a smaller amount, than 1 months rent, it prevents the landlord from having easy access to a pool of money if you leave the property with any damages. If you leave damages beyond the value of the bond, they would have to sue you to claim the remaining damages in the Civil and Administrative Tribunal for your state.

        Nearly every single landlord who arranges to have a tenant privately (not through a real estate) is unaware of their legal rights and obligations as a landlord. As a result, the landlord likely considers that you are a boarder in the property. This is incorrect. I would also recommend that you go and talk to the landlord and identify that you are entitled to have people over at your property. Whilst you tenant a property you can equivalently treat the property almost like you own it. The landlord cannot tell you who you may or may not have at your property; just as you cannot restrict who your landlord can have visiting the main house.

        Provide your landlord with a copy of their legal rights and obligations for landlords. You can normally find simple information pamphlets for this purpose on websites such as the Department of Fair Trading.

        https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-property/rent…

        • p1 ama on 11/11/2018 - 18:22
          +1

          Well I stand corrected. However, since you know much more about this than I do, could you clarify where the line is between someone being a boarder and someone being a tenant? For example, if I agree to let a friend stay over at my place whilst he finds somewhere to live and he pays me some cash every week, is he considered a tenant?

          • mylovelyminion on 11/11/2018 - 23:12

            @p1 ama: It would be dependent on a number of factors. The key factor that it is dependent on generally though is about whether money is being exchanged for the provision of a room/house to let. If you are allowing a friend to stay over at your place whilst they find somewhere else to live, (and do not charge them rent) they would be classified as an occupant of the property. Occupants are not tenants, as a result, they do not receive any of the rights and protections of a tenant. The tenant of the property therefore, can therefore have the occupant removed from the property at any time, no notice needs to be given as they have no legal rights in this scenario.

            If the person starts paying you a sum of money to stay in the premises then you are effectively making them a tenant of the property and you are the landlord. As a tenant, they acquire legal rights to stay at the property to have notice given for eviction etc, if it is an oral agreement.

            It is important to note though that if you allow someone to move in with you and pay you rent whilst you are renting the property, then you are effectively sub-leasing the space to your friend. You should check your lease to see if you are allowed to sub-let in your rental contract. If you do not have a written agreement, then you need to get the landlord's written permission to sub-let before you do so. If you do not receive permission from your landlord before you sub-let, then you will be breaching your rental contract, and could be evicted from the property.

            • chillin222 on 12/11/2018 - 18:16
              +2

              @mylovelyminion: This isn't correct.

              Tenancy law is complex and differs from state to state. A person who lives in a house could be a:

              • Boarder
              • Lodger
              • Occupant
              • Tenant (or sub-tenant or co-tenant) under the Residential Tenancies Act
              • Common law tenant (or sub-tenant or co-tenant)
              • Short stay/holiday guest

              All of these categories pay - payment isn't a legal test.

              A state's tenants union can provide fee advice on which category a person falls into.

            • p1 ama on 12/11/2018 - 18:31

              @mylovelyminion: Okay, so let's suppose that a friend is visiting for one month and I decide to let him stay at my place for $20 a night or something like that so that he doesn't have to stay at a hotel. There was never any agreement as to how long he would be staying. This means that if, after a few days, I decide I no longer want him staying over then I'll have to give him one month of notice?

        • gila24 on 11/11/2018 - 20:24

          Thank you wholeheartedly:)

        • HighAndDry on 12/11/2018 - 10:44
          +1

          Hi law graduate. While everything you say is correct, the practical reality might be that OP makes a fuss, the landlord gives notice (and even pays any fines they have to), and OP is now having to look for a different place to live.

          • mylovelyminion on 12/11/2018 - 13:43

            @HighAndDry: I agree, it could be a little bit difficult in practice. However, it doesn't change the fact that landlords cannot dictate how we live within the walls of our property that we are tenanting. I think it is giving up too much quality of life to effectively 'roll over' and let the landlord win in this instance. After all, the landlord then has to look at re-renting the premise which could cost them financially if they cannot secure someone else in the property. No fines would be applicable, it's more likely that the landlord would fail to provide appropriate notice to vacate the property and would therefore be breaching the lease and have to pay the OP damages.

          • syousef on 12/11/2018 - 13:53

            @HighAndDry: That might be best for the OP anyway. No one wants to pay rent only to feel like their landlord is playing the part of a bossy parent.

        • Griff0 on 12/11/2018 - 16:59

          @mylovelyminion, you should probably read all relevant information regarding Landlord Ending Tenancy. As there is no fixed term period in place, then the Landlord is required to give 90 days notice.

          https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-property/rent…

          • congo on 13/11/2018 - 15:26

            @Griff0: wow.. doesn't seem right, I never got 90 days.

      • p1 ama on 11/11/2018 - 18:01
        +3

        Then you really should consider getting a place with a proper lease. There are certain protections that come with having a lease agreement and most of those protections are for the tenant.

        Basically, the way that you should think about it is that in the general case (absent of having a lease), the landlord has all the rights (it's their place), but when a lease contract is signed, the landlord is giving up some of those rights in exchange for a payment. Without a formal agreement, it is difficult to know where to draw the line.

        Suppose that the owner wishes to store a bunch of stuff in her granny flat. Or perhaps she has a friend who wants to sleep over, so she sends them round the back. What are you going to do about it? Of course, if you have a proper lease none of things can happen.

        • Lastchancetosee on 12/11/2018 - 08:42
          +1

          +10. This is a good time to discuss a proper lease, and traceable bond and rental. That way the obligations and rights are clear on both sides. As it stands, she can continue to try to impose unreasonable controls, and if you leave, you could well finish up with no bond and no reference.

      • aussieolfaction on 12/11/2018 - 16:22
        +1

        The rent is definitely not below the market rate, considering the facility and accessibility I'd say I probably pay a bit more than others would

        Why are you staying in a grumpy old lady's backyard paying above market rental rates? May be it would be better for you to move into a proper accommodation. I do understand it's easier said than done, but I'd think about that if I were you.

    • chillin222 on 12/11/2018 - 18:07

      There is no written lease agreement, you mean?

    • solidussnake on 12/11/2018 - 23:01

      So you're fine with her avoiding paying tax then ?

  • try2bhelpful on 11/11/2018 - 18:07
    +4

    Maybe sit down with her and find out exactly what is bugging her. Ask her if there has been any incident in the past that concerned her. Find out if there is a way to reassure her that your friends are not obnoxious louts. Maybe some of your games nights were getting rowdy. Being respectful and finding out if there is a way to diffuse this is better than escalating.

  • Tasmaniac on 11/11/2018 - 18:32
    +3

    Fortnight can make people really angry. Maybe she only has a PC ?.

    • Flanders on 11/11/2018 - 23:56
      +2

      Invite her in for game night and start paying rent in Vbucks :)

  • bqjt on 11/11/2018 - 22:06
    -3

    Try to look at it from the landlord's (landlady) perspective! She might be getting tensed by seeing a stranger in her backyard. Perhaps you could give her advance notice. Speak to her and see if that arrangement works.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 00:06
      +12

      Well, don't rent out the property then.

      People are entitled to enjoy their lives which involves their friends, and they are well within their rights to invite them to stay the night.

    • Lastchancetosee on 12/11/2018 - 08:33

      @bqjtThat isn't practical, though. The OP can't be expected to plan for every time someone is likely to stay over.

    • solidussnake on 12/11/2018 - 23:02

      Probably thinks its the ato 😎

  • mbck on 11/11/2018 - 23:20
    -2

    I mean there's extra risk if people are coming and going. And if someone gets injured, then potentially the landlady can be liable. Will be an issue if she doesn't have any insurance.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 00:07
      +3

      We don't live in America, so no, the landlord is unlikely to be liable if the property is kept within reasonable standards.

    • samfisher5986 on 12/11/2018 - 12:30

      Thats stupid, its not a business, don't post things you've made up in your head.

    • aussieolfaction on 12/11/2018 - 22:29
      +1

      Said landlady could avoid the "extra risk" completely by simply not renting out the granny flat in her backyard.

    • mbck on 12/11/2018 - 22:49
      -2

      Ofc landlords can be sued. Sure we don't have the American mindset but the chance of being sued is there. There's nothing wrong in the landlord wanting to minimise risk.

      -

      I suggest to that person commenting to do more reading. Otherwise without facts you sound like a biggus dickus.

      legal.

      Business or not, a landlord (and a renter) has responsibilities.

      -

      To the other commenter. That's even more stupid, not renting it out to get extra income. That's like having a car, but not driving because you may get into an accident. Maybe filter the renter so you get good ones, or draft an actual contract so both parties have a clear understanding.

      Ciao

  • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 07:56
    +2

    From the sound of her text message, I think the best thing to do would be to introduce your friends to her. If you do that, according to her logic, she has no reason to complain

  • myusername on 12/11/2018 - 11:11
    +5

    did you or your friend happen to 'piss' in the backyard?

  • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 12:11
    +2

    If you don't have a tenancy contract, then all the above rights and entitlements are not practicable.

    Sure, you can start lodging claims through tenants union, etc etc but the likely conclusion to your endeavour is a termination of your agreement with the landlord.

    If you think you're getting a good deal and you're generally satisfied with the accomodation, then take the "no guests" policy as part of your overall agreement. If you're not satisfied, terminate and look for lodging elsewhere and this time do it through the proper channels to ensure you have tenant's rights.

    • Kangal on 13/11/2018 - 09:49

      Here's the thing: even if you don't have a Verbal Contract, and by all accounts are squatting… there are Laws to protect your well-being and living arrangement.

      It seems illogical, but it's there for a good reason. It's not that easy to evict someone, the police usually do not want to be involved.

  • Lockieasy on 12/11/2018 - 12:15
    +1

    Just break into her house at night and let your friends sleep on her couch.

    That way they technically aren't staying the night in your flat.

  • samfisher5986 on 12/11/2018 - 12:32
    +1

    OP, its very clear she wants to rent out a granny flat, but not allow the tenant to actually live there properly, she just wants the profit.

    You need to remind her that you have equal rights just like any other apartment or house.

    The fact that its in her backyard is her fault, not yours.

  • Seraphin7 on 12/11/2018 - 13:22

    Granny flats are always a source of this sort of issue, doubly so when you have no written agreement.

    On one hand, landlords are probably fair enough in being concerned about people coming and going all the time as they also live there and probably want to regulate this in some way.

    On the other hand, if you have "exclusive use" (which I assume you do) of the granny flat then you should be able to have people there at any time so long as you and your guests are in no way disturbing the landlord.

    One way or another, you need to have the discussion with your landlord and come to a resolution. That resolution may be that you'll be looking for a new place to live.

  • kale chips suck on 12/11/2018 - 13:25
    +2

    To answer your question, no, she doesn't have the right to do that.

    To solve your problem, keep it simple. Get your mates over for a relaxed BBQ one afternoon when you know she's home and get her along. Introduce her to the people, put her mind at ease. Word your mates up in advance to behave. If everyone brings a plate and you have a nice, wholesome afternoon she'll sees you and your mates aren't going to trash the place, and I imagine her position will soften. At some point you just happen to mention that later you'll be gaming until pretty late because (making this up) you're playing an american clan and the game schedule is on US time so really really late for us - but if it's an inconvenience to her then she should let you know and you can work out a compromise together - how about, for example, we game only, say, twice a month and only on weekends? etc, etc.

    I had a similar issue years ago, with a granny flat with a angry old granny landlord. No pets, no women, no loud parties, etc, etc. I found an abandoned jack russell pup that I wanted to rescue - but was told "No, won't wash" by everyone who knew my landlady. "She hates dogs and she loves her rules" I took the dog home anyway. I went and saw the granny immediately, and actually handed her the puppy. I told her she'd been abandoned and I knew I wasn't able to keep a dog - and I wouldn't be - but I couldn't drag the dog around with me whilst I went out trying to find a solution to housing her as it was a hot day and I couldn't leave the dog in the car. A ridiculous excuse, but anyway. So, I left the dog with her overnight and went out with my mates. In the morning I turned up with a bag of food and bowls and so on, ready to "take the dog to the shelter because I couldn't find anyone who wanted her". I was immediately forbidden from taking "such a beautiful dog" ~ "Rose" ~ to the pound. Zoe lived to 16 and when I moved on from the flat my granny landlord was greatly saddened to see her go - not me, but the dog.

    My point is, all this talk of rights and demanding this and demanding that and implied contract and verbal and all the rest isn't going to help you - you need to work out what the issue is for your landlady and address that in a way that everyone feels they've come out ahead. Focus on what you want to achieve and the best way to have that happen without you or her feeling you've "lost". In my case, I wanted to do something expressly banned by my agreement. I knew this puppy was adorable, and I didn't believe my grannylord was so heartless as to be immune to that. So I put the two of them together for long enough for the (almost) inevitable to happen. The result was she changed the rule - for that dog. Which was all I needed.

    • samfisher5986 on 12/11/2018 - 14:19
      +1

      I don't agree with having a BBQ and trying to make friends… this just hands all the power to the landlord and asking please, when you have the right to invite people over.

      You should feel free to bring over whoever you want, from family, friends or girls you met last night, but obviously not on a regular basis.

  • drillvoice on 12/11/2018 - 14:19
    +1

    What state/territory are you in?

    That said, regardless, you have the right to quiet enjoyment of the property. You are allowed to have visitors. Even if you haven't got a written contract you still have rights under tenancy law in your state/territory, I can send you the link if you want.

  • sghetti on 12/11/2018 - 15:06
    +3

    How is the granny flat/backyard laid out, a MSPaint diagram would help massively. Did your friend have to enter from a front gate? Did you let them in? A few unknowns here.

    I wouldn't be comfortable with random people opening a side gate and letting themselves in and having to work out if they were meant to be entering the property or not.

    • samfisher5986 on 12/11/2018 - 16:06
      -2

      Then don't rent out your granny flat. A diagram isn't necessary, the location doesn't matter.

      Once you rent out a granny flat, you are creating an entrance for guests, uber eats drivers, delivery people, and so on.

      If you want to rent a place with stupid rules, advertise for "student accommodation" where stupid rules are normal.

      • sghetti on 13/11/2018 - 15:15

        I wouldn't. And if I did, I'd let them know to notify me if others would be entering the property.

        Who knows what was REALLY agreed to with this arrangement. Too many unknowns.

  • Ken1977 on 12/11/2018 - 19:25
    -2

    I didn't think you could legally rent out a grannny flat, these are actually called dependant persons unit. This is why it doesn't require is own title and rates notice, as it's only meant as a cheap way to have granny live behind you so you can look after her. Looks like your landlord might be breaking several council by-laws. Maybe inform her of this and tell her to shut her friggin gob or you'll dob her in.

  • mister_snrub on 12/11/2018 - 19:48
    +3

    Before you get on the legal or moral high ground, you should ask if there is a way you can have visitors that will make her feel comfortable. Perhaps if you agree to always escort the person to/from the street, that might be okay with her. Then she knows the person is not a stranger, but in fact someone you trust.

    Always better to find a compromise rather than risk being offside with the person who owns the place you live.

  • drfuzzy on 12/11/2018 - 19:50
    +2

    It is hard to answer this question without knowing what state you are in.

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