Sales Staff Sent Me an SMS from Their Private Phone. Is It Illegal or Simply Immoral/Annoying?

Lbillybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 11:42
Last edited 28/11/2018 - 12:07 by 1 other user

Hi

I purchased my wedding band from Michael Hill last year and obviously had to give my details (Name, Address, Mobile number etc). Now, I've had an SMS from the person who served me saying that they will look after me, give me extra discount if I come in and see them to purchase anything else.

Now to me (I'm happy to be proven wrong), that seems like a strange thing to do. It's not through an official outlet (it's from their personal number and not a company number or email and they're a retail assistant, not an external rep), so I was wondering if that's illegal?

I'd be interested if anybody had any links in regards to who can contact you and how it must be done?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Edit: FYI -

Unsubscribe option – all marketing or promotional messages (whether via email/SMS) must contain a functional ‘unsubscribe’ feature, that allows the recipient to opt out from receiving messages in the future.

James.

Mobile

Related Stores

Michael Hill
Michael Hill

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2018 - 11:46
    +50

    strange yes, illegal no.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2018 - 12:12
        +107

        glad to see you completed a legal degree since posting half an hour ago. let us know how your lawsuit for damages to your mental health goes.

        • elgrande on 28/11/2018 - 13:40
          +2

          Good luck for OP passing the normal fortitude test.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2018 - 01:02
          +2

          He's not actually wrong: https://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensurin…

          • nith265 on 30/11/2018 - 12:29

            @[Deactivated]: It only needs unsubscribe option if it's truely a "commercial message" - seems more like a creepy inappropriate personal message

            They considering the message in context to decide if it's "commercial"

            https://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensurin…

            • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2018 - 12:32

              @nith265: Yes and it's a commercial message as per that definition.

              • nith265 on 30/11/2018 - 13:40

                @[Deactivated]: We dont have the message or full context but on what we know I'm still (moslty) disinclined to agree with you.

                OP concedes it's clearly come from an individual with more of a personal offer rather than a specific Michael Hill offering.

                form the Act defining if it's commercial:

                "…promotes the supply of goods, services…"

                ^ supports what you're saying

                "…by considering:…the way the message is presented.."

                ^ supports my way of thinking

                It's simply not the type of message that the Spam Act is targeted at. But who knows - maybe it is part of orchestrated marketing campaign were they tell the reps to follow up in a casual manner after sales - then I guess it could be.

                I guess OP could report them to ACMA. Zero chance of ACMA taking any action against Michael Hill, but maybe they would send and email to them as a matter of routine, reminding them of their SPAM obligations, which could get the rep in trouble, which is what OP is really after anyway!

    • jayniner on 28/11/2018 - 17:10
      +18

      If the employee took your number privately (not acting on behalf of Michael Hill) and called you outside of official "marketing channels" then I would suggest that is a breach of the Australian Privacy Act.

    • XanderYuan on 30/11/2018 - 09:23
      +2

      Just a note for anyone that’s reading the comments. Any comments that tries to explain the law without referencing to legislation or cases are mostly wrong.

    • Viper8 on 30/11/2018 - 11:36
      +2

      Wrong. It would constitute a breach of their data privacy terms and conditions.
      This employee should be reprimanded by the employer.

  • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 11:51
    +47

    I'd be interested if anybody had any links in regards to who can contact you and how it must be done?

    About what? A shop salesperson contacted you in relation to shop sales stuff.

    If they'd used their private phone and your number to send you inappropriate messages (e.g. asking you out to dinner), that'd be one thing, but this is just… strange, but honestly there's nothing wrong with it.

    so I was wondering if that's illegal?

    Can we… can we not de-value the law like this? The law is (or is supposed to be) reserved for solving serious issues. It should not be the first thing you jump to when you encounter something that just feels strange.

    Also ironic coming from someone whose username is "pir8king".

      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:02
        +26

        under the proviso I be called when my item came into store, NOT to be then solicited for future products from side dealings of a retail staff member.

        I strongly doubt this. There's usually a catch-all clause saying: We can use your contact details to contact you about future sales, promotions, etc.

        It doesn't matter - deal with this as an adult, reply to them and say: "Thanks but no thanks, please don't message me again." That's not so hard is it?

        I don't know about you but I don't expect to be hassled

        Com'on now, you're not so sensitive as to be counting a single text message as being "hassled", right?

        Perhaps a call to the store to query them on what their policy is in regards to staff contacting clients directly?

        Maybe, but replying to the message seems easier and more convenient to me. Just personally imo.

          • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:10
            +17

            @billybilly81: Is there something preventing you from messaging back with "Please don't message me again"?

            (Also, very arguable whether this falls under that provision, given that it's not an automated message - which afaik (cbf to check) is a requirement.)

              • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:25
                +16

                @billybilly81: Sigh. I love how because you have a friend who is a "contractual lawyer" you feel qualified to engage in legal arguments online. (BTW, I also doubt even this - I'm guessing you're saying that to lend your comments a legitimacy that they plainly do not deserve, and "your friend" is really you reading Google results for "What is SPAM?")

                For one thing - a one-off, personalised, non-automated message from an individual is unlikely to be covered under the Spam Act as spam at all. Even if it persists after you reply asking for it to stop, it would likely fall under harassment legislation than spam legislation.

                Oh, and btw?

                Whether it's automated or not is irrelevant.

                Of course this is relevant. This is one of the factors considered in determining whether a message is or is not spam.

                • XanderYuan on 29/11/2018 - 09:22
                  +2

                  @HighAndDry: What law degree have you got?

                  • Entropy Sky on 29/11/2018 - 12:35
                    +2

                    @XanderYuan: Got his phd from Royal College of OZBargain.

                    • XanderYuan on 30/11/2018 - 09:24

                      @Entropy Sky: That’s probably the case, last time he/she questioned my understanding of common law vitiating factors…never got a reply afterwards…

          • pformag on 28/11/2018 - 13:23
            +2

            @billybilly81: Did you reply STOP?

          • CocaKoala on 28/11/2018 - 13:58
            +2

            @billybilly81:

            Unsubscribe option – all marketing or promotional messages must contain a functional ‘unsubscribe’ feature, that allows the recipient to opt out from receiving messages in the future.

            This is applicable for businesses sending promotional material. But as I understand from your post, a sales person texted you from their personal phone, and said they will look after you and give you a discount if you went back there. I doubt that they represent the business itself in this case.

            It might be easy to send them a polite message asking not to be contacted like this. I don't know what else are you expecting here.

      • chriise on 28/11/2018 - 14:52
        +7

        you sound fun

      • p1 ama on 29/11/2018 - 20:16

        I don't know about you but I don't expect to be hassled post sales when shopping retail

        A text message is not hassling you. Don't like it, don't respond. Get over yourself.

  • John Kimble on 28/11/2018 - 11:54
    +5

    How do you know its their personal number and not a work issued mobile?

    • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:06
      -1

      Voicemail and that it asks me to ask for them specifically.

      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:09
        +48

        it asks me to ask for them specifically.

        Work mobiles can be issued to individual staff members. (And it still does not make a jot of difference).

        Why are people somehow allergic to dealing with these trivial issues like adults, and expect the government to solve it for them?

        • bobbified on 28/11/2018 - 12:47
          +12

          Why are people somehow allergic to dealing with these trivial issues like adults, and expect the government to solve it for them?

          I wonder about this constantly…

        • fickre on 28/11/2018 - 20:18
          +2

          This is the exact reason why we are a nanny state.

        • terrys on 29/11/2018 - 07:46

          Then their use of such mobiles falls under the remit of the applicable laws and regulation applicable to the business. I think this was the OP's point!

      • MementoMori on 30/11/2018 - 14:45
        +2

        If it was their personal number why would you need to ask for them specifically?

    • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:00
      +3

      Sigh. I guess I'm not surprised to see you being on the side of more nannying.

      including a "text STOP to opt out" type clause

      This isn't some kind of magical / legal clause, OP can just reply to the message, using normal English, to say "Thanks but no thanks, please don't message me again". Like a normal person.

      • afoveht on 28/11/2018 - 12:01
        +9

        "STOP"

        • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:06
          +9

          Lol, no, this doesn't work on voluntary online forums where you are actively participating and therefore consenting to receive replies on.

        • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:07

          There is a legal term I've just been told by a friend,

          Does your friend have any qualifications?

          Anything unrelated is classified as spam/unsolicited and is illegal.

          Yes, except if you've given express consent, which was very likely included on the form that you filled out your contact details on.

          • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:10

            @HighAndDry: My friend is a contractual lawyer. The form was literally a piece of paper with 3 lines on it - Name, address, contact number. There was literally nothing else on the paper.

            • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:13
              +3

              @billybilly81:

              My friend is a contractual lawyer.

              There is literally no such thing. For one thing, no one in the industry (who's competent I guess) calls the field "contractual law" as opposed to "Contracts Law". And for another, your friend might work with contracts, but they would be a commercial lawyer (to put it generally), or usually be far more specialised (because, surprise, 'contracts law' covers a very wide range of matters.)

        • savemeadollar on 28/11/2018 - 12:08
          +2

          I don't think this would be classified as marketing or promotional messages.

          Have you tried saying "Thanks, but I am not interested. I would prefer if you do not text me anymore."

          • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:13
            -8

            @savemeadollar: Yes. I will follow up with the store to ensure they're aware of the side-dealings of their staff and contacting customers via personal means.

            • savemeadollar on 28/11/2018 - 12:15
              +10

              @billybilly81: Not so much side dealings when they are saying "come in to the store."

              • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:19
                -6

                @savemeadollar: Yes but to ask for them specifically (to get the commission). I do get your point though, it's different to offering stuff cheaper than the store if I deal with them direct.

                • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:33
                  +10

                  @billybilly81:

                  Yes but to ask for them specifically (to get the commission).

                  You realise the shop actively gives commission, because that's how they encourage sales staff to make sales, which is what this sales person is trying to do, right?

      • elgrande on 28/11/2018 - 13:44
        +8

        "STOP… You are committing an illegal act, punishable by an annoying Ozbargain thread or up to three years in jail.

        P.s. Can you do me a good deal on buying back my wedding band? The Mrs has left me for some reason.."

    • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:01
      -6

      Thank you for your reply. I totally agree. The fact that there is no 'opt out' clause and has a voicemail means that it's definitely spam and possibly even a breach of privacy.

      • savemeadollar on 28/11/2018 - 12:07
        +6

        Please explain how this is a breach of privacy?

        Lawyers…lawyers everywhere

        • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:12
          -2

          A person who isn't authorised has obtained information from their place of business to contact me for their own personal dealings.

          • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:15
            +12

            @billybilly81: They're a staff member and they're contacting you regarding sales from the store. How is that "their personal dealings"?

            FOH, people like you are what will slowly turn Australia into the litigation-hellhole that's the US.

              • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:32
                +14

                @billybilly81: A person doesn't need your permission to contact you - what law are you talking about? Here's a cliffsnotes of what I'm saying:

                1. This isn't spam because it doesn't meet the requirements for it to be spam (as it is individual-to-individual, not automated, sent to contact details you provided).

                2. This isn't any breach of privacy, because you provided your contact details without any limitation on how or why you could be contacted.

                3. This isn't harassment because it has not persisted despite you asking it to stop.

                Therefore it's not a legal matter at all and you're just being sensitive and begging to be nanny'ed by the government.

                • Roman Sandstorm on 29/11/2018 - 15:03

                  @HighAndDry:

                  1.
                  2. This isn't any breach of privacy, because you provided your contact details without any limitation on how or why you could be contacted.

                  Actually H&D, I'm not sure you are completely correct here.

                  As part of usual ongoing HR training at the organisation I work, the Privacy Act (1988) was a component. (https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy-law/rights-and-responsibilit…)

                  I think the situation may be the opposite of how you think it is. In other words, privacy is assumed and guarded unless you grant permission otherwise.

                  Without explicit permission (like in agreed conditions to a competition, etc) a company can't forward on, or sell, or otherwise disperse an individual's personal details (and this definitely includes phone number). And this includes to other employees within that company - unless there is a 'legitimate' reason for doing so (support, assistance, complaints, etc).

                  In the training module I watched passing on customer details to staff just for follow-up sales calls/emails/letters was not considered 'legitimate'. (To the surprise of the fictional staff in the video, as well as to some staff irl at my organisation.)

                  (And yes, there are exceptions…. credit reporting, employment status, government/police inquiries, etc.)

                  How does this relate to the OP's situation? Well, not much really. I think their situation is rather trivial, and I agree the best course may be just to reply and say: "No thanks. And please don't contact me further."

                  But it may be worth your effort just checking the Privacy Act provisions: they can be quite surprising.

                  • HighAndDry on 29/11/2018 - 15:34

                    @Roman Sandstorm: Thank you for adding the required nuance to the discussion, though I think there is still no issue here - if what OP is saying is correct, the salesperson who contacted him was the same person who served him and presumably collected his details last time. The company didn't share his contact details with anyone - this salesperson already had it.

                    • Roman Sandstorm on 30/11/2018 - 10:59
                      +1

                      @HighAndDry: Agreed.

                      And yes, thanks, nuance may be the correct word. Many people in this thread think that giving name, address, phone number, dob, etc to an organisation gives them almost carte blanche to do as they wish with your info.

                      Unless explicitly agreed this is not the case. The default is that such information cannot be shared.

                      And actually, I think this is a pretty fair balance between privacy and business use/need-to-know. One situation perhaps where government regulation actually works well for most people, and doesn't overtly hamper legitimate interests.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 12:57
                +5

                @billybilly81: You provided your phone number voluntarily, right? What else did you think they would do with your phone number you gave to them? Send you a letter?

              • smartazz104 on 28/11/2018 - 19:52

                @billybilly81: Try and sue them, see what happens then.

              • Nads2407 on 30/11/2018 - 15:10

                @billybilly81: good lord, you sound so whinny. i feel sorry for the sale person who has to deal with you in the future.

          • ThithLord on 29/11/2018 - 09:25

            @billybilly81: Mate, it is completely unethical what this salesperson has done.

            Go ahead and ask their management if they're happy with this behaviour. I have no idea why OzB are getting up your r's about this.

      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:09

        No, just…. no.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2018 - 12:12
    +2

    Happens all the time in hotels in Europe. Just standard operating procedure.

  • geech on 28/11/2018 - 12:13
    +4

    Regarding the unsolicited nature of the message, have a read of the SPAM FAQ page on the ACMA website before you get all high and mighty about the legalities of such contact. Specifically around inferred consent

    https://www.acma.gov.au/Citizen/Internet/esecurity/Spam/spam…

    As has been suggested, the easiest option is just to ask them to not contact you any further and move on. Alternatively, you might be able to sue them for a trillion dollars for their gross breach of every law in the book

  • Gronk on 28/11/2018 - 12:13
    +13

    Oh look! It's another 'Mountain out of a Molehill' thread!

  • Pootie Tang on 28/11/2018 - 12:13
    +5

    yOu mUsT bE fUn aT pArTiEs

    • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:22
      -8

      I am. I bring all the shit that's fun :-)

      • HeartFeltAxe on 29/11/2018 - 13:52
        +1

        Yeah! I bet your conversation making skills would be top notch too!!

    • gimli on 29/11/2018 - 21:15
      -1

      OUEUTTE????????????????

      I DON"T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • yoonibear on 28/11/2018 - 12:22
    +11

    Doesn't seem like it was a marketing/promotional SMS - eg COME INTO THE STORE FOR OUR 10% SALE! SALE SALE SALE!
    Seems more just a touch base / trying to drum up warm leads.

    Stop being so sensitive

    Otherwise just storm into the store, kick up a fuss and demand a full written apology

    • billybilly81 on 28/11/2018 - 12:23
      -3

      I like it. You're the kind of person I'd like to have a beer with. You see both sides but you give an honest and direct answer.

      • MattyD on 28/11/2018 - 13:29
        +18

        Careful: I wouldn't approach yoonibear regarding aforementioned beer invitation unless yoonibear has explicitly agreed to their contact details being used for such purposes…

        • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:43
          +3

          Arguably OP has already spammed yoonibear by replying to his comment because yoonibear didn't consent to anyone contacting him here - he was giving his opinion only. And now I've spammed you - I'm so so sorry, will you please not sue me?

  • hikaru78 on 28/11/2018 - 12:30
    +2

    i would think that its a breach of their privacy policy.

    They have a provision for security and access.

    using details gained from the company system to solicit on their private phone would be a breach of that in a guess
    IANAL

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 28/11/2018 - 12:35
    +1

    I'm not sure on the technicalities here but…

    I would think that accessing and using customer details like that to be against what you agreed to by giving them such information. Does it go against data protection? I would perhaps contact HO and raise them issue with them. If the employee has broken any rules/laws I don't think MH will be too pleased.

    I don't know and I am not a lawyer. However, I would suggest that an employee of any business obtaining customer information and then contacting customers via non-official channels to be a privacy issue, at the very least.

    Going forward - always give a fake number.

  • DarthAntz on 28/11/2018 - 12:35
    +6

    did you tell the retailer your concern, or just randoms on ozbargain (aka the complaint whisperers)

  • askme69 on 28/11/2018 - 12:45
    +8

    triggered #outrageculture

    They more than likely work on commission and coming up to Christmas are trying to get sales.

    If you really are offended/concerned, follow it up and get the person sacked if it will make you sleep better.

    Did they threaten you? Let it slide and reply thanks, but no thanks.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 12:49
    +4

    Lol OP. Wait until you shop around for a car.

    You'll get salespeople, sales managers, dealer principals calling you 10 times a day trying to get you to buy from them :)

    Block their number/SMS back telling them politely to not contact you, move on with your life.

    • rompastompa on 28/11/2018 - 14:10
      +2

      Wait until you shop around for a car.

      Or insurance.. or look at houses.. or any other sales driven industry!

      I also have to laugh at OP's handle. Claims to be a pirate king, then assumably mentions their birth date. Where's the anonymity these days?! Or maybe it's a tactic to put the feds off their trail, surely they can't be ~36 and this be their first sales contact.. 🤔

      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 14:51
        +1

        or look at houses..

        This. Real estate agents are the worst ( / most persistent) when it comes to this. They all act like they should be on a first name basis (or part of the family) and basically call up about any and all properties even remotely similar to what you might've considered in the past.

  • pantsparty on 28/11/2018 - 12:59
    +1

    Is this really worth an Ozbargain post? Either block their number or reply and say no thanks - get off your high horse and try to have a nice day. No need to be so precious about things which really aren't worth your time worrying about. I recommend you have a read of this book:

    https://www.bookdepository.com/The-Subtle-Art-of-Not-Giving-…

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 13:04
      +2

      Um OP didn't ask for book promotional material. Your post is spam. Your post should have an Unsubscribe option. All marketing or promotional messages (whether via email/SMS) must contain a functional ‘unsubscribe’ feature, that allows the recipient to opt out from receiving messages in the future. Illegal.

      (btw jokes aside, excellent book)

  • Diji1 on 28/11/2018 - 13:19
    -6

    Report to ACMA SMS spam, not that they do anything.

    And send them an abusive message telling them to (profanity) off and stop spamming you.

    The (profanity) (profanity) who is the CEO of the Commonwealth Bank sent me an unsolicited email with no unsub (which is spam) explaining how it's all different now and they won't behave like a criminal organisation anymore even though nobody went to jail and they made money using criminal activities because they recieved a slap on the wrist fine.

    I sent him a reply telling him to go (profanity) himself and it became a corporate complaint where the Commonwealth Bank put the message through the complaints system like (profanity) retards.

    • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2018 - 13:53
      +7

      so many profanities in that post, i could've made one of those 'choose your own adventure' books out of it.

    • afoveht on 28/11/2018 - 16:43

      like (profanity) retards.

      See, this is where you're confusing. Your posts border on being social services, then you say stuff like this.

      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 17:30
        -2

        I mean, I actually like this - Diji1 is old-school left-ist/(almost)anarchist, not this new wave of over-sensitive crybaby 'liberals'. They'd actually prefer to burn the government down and people govern themselves (which the Left used to value - liberty, freedom, and all that), instead of whining to the government for help in fixing everything (which the current brand of left-wing "liberals", who have no idea WTF that word means, would do).

  • Topdog on 28/11/2018 - 13:24

    might want to (profanity) you and stop you from getting married so they can have a go.

    • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:44

      OP bought their wedding band (not engagement ring) last year. I'm hoping they've already gotten married because otherwise uh.. that seems like a bit of a delay seeing as it's already end of Nov the next year.

      • Topdog on 28/11/2018 - 13:45

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! see i dont know these things :P thanks for the lesson

        • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:47

          OMG! Maybe you can get the shopgirl's number from OP! OzTinder?

      • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2018 - 13:54

        best to delay these things as long as possible.

      • DarthAntz on 28/11/2018 - 14:01
        +1

        further making them a target for future sales.

        dont forget to get matching earrings and a necklace for the wedding band.

  • Brucey210 on 28/11/2018 - 14:00
    +2

    I have no more down votes available for you or your comments.
    Harden up. Ask them to not send you any further notifications. If the employee continues then take it up with the manager of the store.

    How about you do some actual talking to the people causing you the issue (if this can be even classified as an issue) before you get lawyers and cops and whoever else involved…

    • DarthAntz on 28/11/2018 - 14:03
      +3

      get ozbargainers involved. we're only going to tell you to buy your wedding rings from aliexpress and gearbest

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