Mechanic Wants Me to Pay for Part He Broke on My BMW E90 320d?

Lsimpletooth on 11/12/2018 - 23:19
Last edited 13/12/2018 - 10:30 by 1 other user

Update: picked up my car and examined the broken part. The plastic was indeed brittle but the fuel filter could have been changed without even touching the side that broke. Chalked it up to mechanic inexperience with the brand but I paid for the part anyway. Lesson learned, from now on I'll be doing all my own regular services.

Hi all, Just wondering how I should approach this?

Dropped my car off for a service today which included a fuel filter replacement. The fuel filter is also attached to a plastic fuel preheater and to connect the two together is pretty much push them back together. Easy as it gets.

Got a call from my mechanic that while he was fitting the new one, he broke the plastic on the preheater as it was brittle from age (8 years). This part is hard to source and will cost around $300. He wants me to pay for the part and he says he'll either charge me a reduced labour rate or won't charge me for extra labour.

I'm quite conflicted here. If the part truly was aged and brittle - if the preheater would break if I were doing the service myself then I'm happy to pay up, however how on earth he managed to break the plastic doing such a simple operation makes me feel that perhaps maybe he is liable for the damage?

Poll Options expired

  • 68
    I should pay for the part ($300)
  • 22
    Mechanic should pay for the part
  • 7
    Hard to say - both pay half?
Automotive BMW

Comments

  • brendanm on 11/12/2018 - 23:43
    +1

    What sort of car is this?

    • simpletooth on 11/12/2018 - 23:48

      its a bmw e90 320d

      • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 00:23
        +113

        In that case it was designed to fail. It's a feature.

        • Nugs on 12/12/2018 - 06:28
          +1

          european plastics are not 'good'.

          i was warned from buying euro by a friend who works at a stand alone mechanics workshop for. he said as they apporach ten years old, a lot of the under bonnet plastics start failing.

          yeah, i still bought one, but it was cheap….. virtually all of the interior plastics are chipped, cracked, scratched, glued back together etc.
          .

          • zuuutoootuuu on 12/12/2018 - 09:18
            +2

            @Nugs: I agree, the plastics/rubber things are made of in BMWs is terrible in comparison to Japanese cars. Anybody that's worked on an older BMW will tell you exactly what you've said above.

            • resisting the urge on 15/12/2018 - 00:34

              @zuuutoootuuu: All modern cars are bad like this, esp. high efficiency diesels. That's why they are so cheap to buy >5 years of abuse.

          • resisting the urge on 15/12/2018 - 00:23

            @Nugs: If you went to the dealer, they work by the factory defined process and usually only break plastics when they 'worn out' (physically, or chemically). Practically speaking, indie mechanics can't do this unless they are supernatural specialist wizards with your car.

            Plastic sucks for them, so it sucks for people that opt use a mechanic over a dealer. That said, most of their customers come in when something is broken so most of the plastic parts they see are already past their use-by date. When was the last time your filter was changed? 8 years? If so it was def brittle and could certainly break during removal.

            Sounds to me like you have a mech that doesn't fib, which is kind of rare.

            You probably have no choice but to pay- even if it wasn't necessarily and absolutely impossible to replace without breaking (if the mech were a gifted wizard with the time and patience to do something supernatural

            • brendanm on 15/12/2018 - 12:03

              @resisting the urge: Haha dealer mechanics are some of the lowest paid in the industry, generally because they struggle with anything other than servicing, as that's all they are taught as apprentices. I've had to do jobs that your magical dealers didn't want to do.

              • resisting the urge on 08/01/2019 - 17:43

                @brendanm: Of course they are not all good, and there are some techs that are hopeless, but

                1. they are not magical, nor are they are not mine (!?!)
                2. BMW tech info and service procedures are quite detailed, and their training programs very good. Dealerehip only pay their wisest and best to work and mentor the rest, apprentices and those proving themselves are not well paid but if able to access the learning programs these can help these ones advance. The chance that proper procedures are actually followed are far higher than the average stealership where items appear magically on the bill when in reality little to nothing was done. In that sense, customers can get reliable servicing done without being ripped off, eg fair value. But only if comparing tasks that involve comprehensive service/checking effort- one cannot just let them add on things that are not in the service program or are not justified otherwise. Like all brands, they charge an arm and a leg for consumables and parts however, so it pays to supply your own OE/OEM items when they might be needed
                3. Stealerships have front of house customer service staff that actively work to filter out work that the dealer cannot make a margin on (this means a lot of older vehicles requiring work that requires specialised skills (eg transmission overhauls), or work that has a higher chance of failure due to factors beyond the scope of the job itself (w.g. total dash teardowns), and anything that may involve a lot of troubleshooting or is causing intermittent faults. Sometimes it is just that the customer is one that doesn't understand wear and tear or expects everything for free. They turn these ones away as fast as anyone else, often as they will change their tune* by the time they get to the guy down the road. I'd say one of these will be why you've had to do a job they didn't 'want to do'.
                  *There are plenty of tossers around like this- and they don't all drive bimmers!
                • brendanm on 08/01/2019 - 17:56

                  @resisting the urge: You are welcome to believe whatever you like, I'm going off being in the industry, and seeing thw work that comes out of dealers, and the people they employ. The general rule of thumb is that if you are any good, you work at an instant, if you barely passed Tafe, you work at the dealer.

                  • resisting the urge on 08/01/2019 - 18:05

                    @brendanm: Agreed. But working for Fiat, the SE Asian brands, or one of a handful of other commodity brands let alone the import businesses that flog them is different from one that values its brand/engineering reputation in a way a few others do. But I'm definitely not saying they pay well, or are in any way perfect.

                    • brendanm on 08/01/2019 - 20:47

                      @resisting the urge: I know people who have worked for BMW, Audi and Porsche, none were great mechanics. BMW doesn't care, most of their stuff is basic servicing until the lease runs out, and the greater the difference between the $220+ they charge to whatever they can pay mechanics, the better.

                      • resisting the urge on 14/01/2019 - 21:20

                        @brendanm: There are plenty of bad techs out there. Mechanics are no exception.

                        But few can make become exceptional, or indeed many barely good, without decent training materials, let alone the right reference info at the right time. They get that in all the BMW stealerships I know. Bad managers however… they are everywhere in Oz.

                        And of course, plenty of workshops, let alone Dealer/Stealers, out there will take your money for doing very little, the wrong thing, not knowing the right way and breaking stuff, fixing symptoms… etc. The list is very long, which is why trust more than price, is often more important.

        • crob on 13/12/2018 - 15:03
          -1

          as is driving like (profanity) once you get in a BMW

          • WhyAmICommenting on 14/12/2018 - 13:14
            +1

            @crob: Indicators must be the first to go. Strange they can't afford to fix them..

      • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 06:55
        +1

        It would have been brittle then. You don't even need a fuel heater here unless you live in the snow. What year is it? You may have timing chain failure to look forward to as well.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 11:28

          Couldn't they just put a piece of hose in place of the fuel heater?

  • urahara on 12/12/2018 - 02:24

    Just pay the guy $300 and say that on his face and keep him indebted for his life.

    • pjetson on 12/12/2018 - 09:07
      +17

      say that on his face

      Genuine question - what does that mean?

      • follow on 12/12/2018 - 10:57
        +9

        https://imgur.com/a/ApieGCm

        • pjetson on 12/12/2018 - 12:02
          +3

          I'm guessing that the OP meant something along the lines of "say it to his face"

          Maybe it's slang that I'm too old to understand.

          • Ridiculous Panda on 12/12/2018 - 23:38
            +1

            @pjetson: Sounds more like literal translation from another language. I can relate.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 19:21

            @pjetson: Nope, just poor English; that poster has a record of it.

      • HeartFeltAxe on 13/12/2018 - 10:05
        +1

        Yeah I agree.

        Please provide MSPaint sketch thank you

      • Melong on 13/12/2018 - 13:40
        +1

        You know face saying?

    • Nugs on 12/12/2018 - 06:29
      +4

      did you view the broken piece, and can you easily break it again to demonstrate brittleness?
      .

        • pegaxs on 12/12/2018 - 09:52
          +6

          Yeah, wishful thinking

          So, using your analogy, if a wheel was hanging off the car but the mechanic was the one that put the final straw on the camels back, they are liable for it?

          You’re lucky that the mechanic broke it and didn’t have to find out the hard way driving down the road and it broke then.

          Plastics will go brittle over time, especially in an engine bay area due to the very hot and then cooling conditions parts are subject to.

          This is part of the reason I hate working on customer cars.

          • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 09:55

            @pegaxs: Well we don't know how worn this part was and how long it could've lasted for if it wasn't touched.

            • Ridiculous Panda on 12/12/2018 - 23:42

              @Danstar: Well that's why you give the mechanic the benefit of the doubt. That is how nice people treat other people. Unless you know otherwise or can find out somehow, you just assume other people are telling the truth.

              • Danstar on 13/12/2018 - 05:13

                @Ridiculous Panda: And do you think the most mechanics can be trusted ?

                I’m sure we’re all of the same opinion, most mechanics first instinct is to make as money as they can off of us

                • lonewolf on 13/12/2018 - 12:32

                  @Danstar: I agree with that comment, I have had many many unreliable mechanics who have cost me a bomb and basically stolen / lied to me about parts i was buying and instead giving me cheaper inferior parts. To the point that i got some brakes changed and then went on to have 2 accidents due to the brakes being bad as well as improperly installed.

    • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 09:03
      +1

      It's funny how everyone is so against shops price jacking, making profits, etc.

      And as soon as someone posts for advice on the forums, everyone is so against the user and PRO the shop/trade

      In most cases the users are at fault and just looking for someone else to blame or get out of it. But in this post, I genuinely believe it's the mechanics responsibility to return the car as it was handed to them with the exception of anything that was asked to be fixed, is fixed.

      • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 17:59

        Looks like when I suspect that anything is about to fail on my car, I'll just send it in to the mechanic for a service. When they break they almost broken parts, they'll have to pay for it even though they were end of life. This is what you are saying, and it is ridiculous. It's 8+ year old plastic that has been subjected to a million hot/cold cycles.

        Or perhaps I'll buy a 100+ year old house, and ask a plumber to replace the tap. When they break it and the pipe it's connected to, he will have to pay to replace it all. It's not at all my responsibility because I purchased an ancient house where everything is worn out/rusted and seized.

        • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 18:42

          When a good mechanic works on a car they inspect all major and some minor aspects of the car.

          And if they find anything they will usually call to advise the situation and offer to fix these (at a cost)
          That’s how they usually make their money.

          They won’t start on a car that’s about to fall apart and work in hope nothing breaks.
          Not sure what kind of mechanics you’ve been to in the past.

          Same goes for a plumber. A plumber won’t dive into any job
          Without inspecting what needs to be inspected before starting the work.

          • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 19:45
            +1

            @Danstar: You have absolutely no idea. You cant see the part in question until you remove the undertrays, and even when you do you can't assess how brittle the part is, until it snaps in your fingers. I'm actually a mechanic, used to do a lot of euro stuff actually. How would you recommend the mechanic assess the likelihood of a small plastic connector breaking? Magic 8 ball? Ouija board?

            • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 21:45
              -1

              @brendanm: You bring up an example about other trades and other jobs. Yet you always then go back to the example of this one part on a BMW

              • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 11:36

                @Danstar: The BMW is what we are talking about. I am talking about old parts, and wear and tear. It's old, it breaks, replace it.

                • Danstar on 13/12/2018 - 12:59

                  @brendanm: So does your opinion apply to all cars or just the one BMW?

          • blitz on 13/12/2018 - 00:11
            +3

            @Danstar:

            Same goes for a plumber. A plumber won’t dive into any job

            Same goes for an electrician. An electrician won't just charge into any job

  • Captain Kremmen on 12/12/2018 - 06:46
    +3

    Happens all the time at my brother in laws workshop. It's normally the apprentice that breaks the part and the workshop pays for the part.

    • All Blacks NZ on 12/12/2018 - 22:46
      +28

      This happens sometimes at my shop too. In most cases, I will pay for the part and not charge labour to fit the part either. Especially if it's our fault.

      Had a Pathfinder in for a clutch replacement few weeks ago. There is a sensor that can break while removing the clutch. It cost me around $90. We told the customer that we broke it but we will replace it at no extra cost. He was happy.

      If we scratch a rim while fitting tyres, we will let the customer know, organise a time when we can have the car for a whole day and get the rim fixed. It's better to be honest rather than customer finding out later and it becoming an issue.

      I will however not pay for certain things which are known to break. Centre caps for Holden wheels break all the time. So we tell customer before starting the job, that they are crappy design and might break. Customers usually know as they have broken before. Wheel nuts for certain Ford cars are again bad design and they have a little cover on them that comes off and get stuck in the socket. We will let the customer know before starting the job and recommend getting a new set of wheel nuts, at next service or tyre change, without the stupid caps.

      It's case by case but end of the day a happy customer will return and it's repeat business. I will do whatever I can to make a customer happy.

      • cloudy on 13/12/2018 - 13:48
        +8

        Where is your shop? I’m always interested in knowing where an honest mechanic can be found.

        • zeppeybabey on 14/12/2018 - 08:45

          i second that, where's your shop?

          • gimme on 14/12/2018 - 09:56

            @zeppeybabey: yeah me too. Number of times my rim's been scratched and they never even acknowledge it let along respray.

          • All Blacks NZ on 15/12/2018 - 17:29

            @zeppeybabey: It's in Coolaroo in Northern suburbs of Melbourne. Cheers

        • All Blacks NZ on 15/12/2018 - 17:27

          My shop is located in Northern suburbs of Melbourne in Coolaroo. Cheers

      • Maichu on 14/12/2018 - 23:55
        +1

        I would be very interested to see an Ozb wiki by mechanics of the most common things that break for each car…

      • stanstho on 15/12/2018 - 12:19
        +1

        Marketing and PR Major here: this is actually the gold standard for creating good will with customers. It's been shown customers who have something go wrong but then have a resolution / fix provided are actually happier / hold more goodwill for firm than customers who simply get a good service in the first place.

        Any other mechanics reading this: Follow this guys lead; replace things for free if you break them; but always tell the customer; even put it on the invoice and write the cost of the part and discount it off the total. It'll create better good will for your shop AND will make you more credible in future if you do need to break the news that you're charging them for a shoddy wheel nut or centre cap which was out of your hands.

        • All Blacks NZ on 15/12/2018 - 17:31

          Totally agree and I can speak from personal experience.

    • Noophe on 13/12/2018 - 14:12
      +1

      the classic the apprentice did it and has been disciplined/talked to scenario

  • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 07:03
    -1

    I can't believe people so many people expect the OP to pay for the part.

    • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 07:50
      +21

      I can't believe so many people don't understand that BMW plastic is often extremely brittle and breaks due to age. I can't believe people that haven't worked on these things would even be able to comment on what has happened with it.

      Thisnis the age when everything plastic breaks on BMW's. Try to replace a radiator hose, the thermostat housing and radiator connectors break off as well.

        • Caped Baldy on 12/12/2018 - 08:21
          -2

          I think it's pretty common knowledge that euro cars around that age are costly to repair because of the aging components. Should an owner know this and proactively replace these? The mechanic would have to give a warning on every component…

          If a technician is replacing the seal on a fridge and the radiator carks because of its age whose fault is that?

          • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 08:53
            -8

            @Caped Baldy: The technician. Again, you are paying for their service and expertise. If they break something during their work in any instance. It's their fault if it was 'working' when they broke it.

        • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 08:26
          +13

          It's not irrelevant at all. It is the entire point, it is at an age where it can break. So you think the mechanic should call op about everything that could possibly happen to his car? "Hi op, I'm about to drain your oil, just letting you know that someone may have strippes or overtightenes the sump plug, so I may have to fix that". "Hi again op, just about to check. Your coolant, if the cap is tight it may put enough force on your explanation tank to radiator connection that you could maybe possibly have a leak if you are unlucky". "Hi again op, sotry about this but I'm about to flush your brake fluid, just a heads up that if you have a stuck or blocked bleed nipple I may have to replace it or clean the threads up". Etc etc

          Yeah, I don't think that's good for op or the mechanic. Every single thing you touch on the car can have issues, either from age, or someone else touching it prior. If you don't want poorly made plastic pieces breaking, don't buy an "old" BMW. It's part of ownership.

            • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 08:54
              +5

              @Danstar: You were saying that op should have been told BEFORE it broke. My post above highlights how this isn't possible. Everything can break, you just don't know when. What experience do you have in working on E90 vintage BMW's?

              • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 08:59

                @brendanm: None. But the mechanic broke it. Not the owner of the vehicle. Thus the onus is on the mechanic to replace it or at best offer something decent to the owner in compensation

                What if the mechanic didn't touch it and it was still working fine for another 5 years ?

              • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 09:20
                +2

                @brendanm: So you're implying that the mechanic should be very well aware of the fragile nature of this part and/or the entire car yet it was impossible to highlight some possible complications.

                Either the mechanic didn't see the obvious or didn't inform the customer of the probable.

                Neither works in favour of the mechanic.

                • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 11:28
                  +1

                  @[Deactivated]: The part being replaced is the fuel filter. There is no other option but to replace this unless you want thousands of dollars worth of common rail issues. So either this mechanic was going to break it, or if he didn't touch it, then the next person to do the fuel filter would have. There is literally no other option, it's an old brittle plastic part, and if op want to drive, he needs it replaced, whether now or shortly in the future.

                  • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 11:33
                    +1

                    @brendanm: It was the plastic on the preheater that was broken. It is not a consumable/sacrificial component.

                    If this mechanic cannot complete the job without breaking it, prior notice would have made the case a simple one.

                    As they say - if warned first, it is a complication. If not, it is an excuse.

                    • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 11:40
                      +2

                      @[Deactivated]: Radiator, thermostat housing etc shouldn't be consumables either, but they are because that's how BMW decided to do it. Using brittle plastics that break when you go to undo them. People with no actual experience have no idea how this stuff works.

                      • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 12:59

                        @brendanm:

                        People with no actual experience have no idea how this stuff works.

                        I don't need to be a surgeon to know bending my knees backwards isn't a good movement.

                        Just like I don't need to be a mechanic to know not to touch unrelated things.

                        the fuel filter could have been changed without even touching the side that broke.

                        • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 13:13
                          +4

                          @[Deactivated]: This shows just how little you know about what you speak. The heater is attached directly to the filter. It must be removed from the filter, to be able to replace the filter.

                          • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 13:35
                            +1

                            @brendanm: I'm just going off what OP saw and said. I quoted ad verbatim.

                            Either way, you're arguing from authority as a technician. I'm pointing out legalities. You cannot enter a voluntary contract to provide a service and be exempt from liability due to inconvenience.

                            Yeah, I don't think that's good for op or the mechanic. Every single thing you touch…

                            It's called informed consent. It is very laxed in the trades but it is still the same concept because if it makes it to court (not for $300 but on principal it is the same) it will come down to these questions:

                            1. Did you inform the client/customer/patient of the potential complication?

                            2. If you did not, do you think your omission would have changed the customer's decision had they been informed?

                            The second question is rhetorical.

                            There's actually a couple more questions that will come to the inevitable conclusion that the omission, decisions and actions of the service provider was motivated by greed.

                            • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 17:20
                              +3

                              @[Deactivated]: I think in this case the customer had no choice. If they didn't replace the filter then op will eventually have a car that doesn't run and requires many thousands in repair. 8 years is quite reasonable for a plastic part subjected to constant heating/cooling cycles and that is constantly exposed to diesel. Had it been 3 years old my opinion would be very different.

                              This sort of thing from people who have "read it on a (brand) forum", and who think that everything should last forever are part of the reason I left the automotive sector.

                              • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 17:44

                                @brendanm:

                                I think in this case the customer had no choice

                                They had a choice. Whether that is DIY, a different mechanic or leave the same way they came from. The car was driven into the workshop, it can drive out of the workshop. Everything done on a car is elective.

                                The only time when choice isn't available is say the customer rocked up to a workshop in the middle of a desert and if the vehicle is not fixed, the car fails and the person dies.

                                • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 17:57

                                  @[Deactivated]: So op takes it to another workshop and they break the fitting? Or op breaks the fitting himself? The fitting is getting broken regardless if it is old and brittle. Things break, how is this not understood?

                                  Cutting corners is a terrible way to work on cars. I suppose if a car comes in with a blown head gasket, you would want just the gasket replaced, don't bother with replacing the thermostat and water pump, have the radiator cleaned out etc?

                                  Why wouldnt BMW warrant this part of its meant to last forever? Maybe they can warrant all their cooling system issues too? God forbid op goes in with a leaking radiator hose and the mechanic tells him that the radiator needs to be replaced as well. Although apparently as the car drove in, it should be able to drive out, so let's just replace that hose, close our eyes to all the other problems, and get op back on a tow truck when the next thing in line breaks, rather than being proactive.

                                  • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 18:03

                                    @brendanm:

                                    So op takes it to another workshop and they break the fitting? Or op breaks the fitting himself? The fitting is getting broken regardless if it is old and brittle.

                                    There we go. You acknowledge that OP has an option of where to break the part. The mechanic has options too - let the customer break it elsewhere or inform the customer the part may break.

                                    I'm not saying the part is meant to last forever. That's another issue entirely and I understand entropy. Nothing lasts forever.

                                    • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 18:05
                                      +1

                                      @[Deactivated]: The mechanic can not know whether the part will break or not. It may be fine, it may not be. If $300 is a deal breaker of a repair for you on an 8+ year old car, I would suggest euros are not your cup of tea (yes I own a euro car).

                                      How exactly is it advantageous for the op if every mechanic says they don't want to replace the fuel filter as the heater may break and cost you $300? Op then has a blocked filter, and worst case, an injection system full of rubbish.

                                      • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 18:46
                                        +1

                                        @brendanm: It shouldn’t matter what type
                                        Of car you or the OP drives.

                                        Congratulations btw for driving a euro car

                                        • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 19:34
                                          +2

                                          @Danstar: It does, because some require more maintanence than others, and have inherent issues that aren't present in something like a Hyundai Getz, which just works basically no matter what.

                                          Lol hardly an accomplishment, just stating that I know what is involved in owning them.

                                      • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 19:05

                                        @brendanm: So, would you fix OPs car for free?

                                        • brendanm on 12/12/2018 - 19:36
                                          +1

                                          @[Deactivated]: No why should I? The part is old, it would have broken no matter who pulled it off, it's part of the expense of owning a car. I sure wouldn't have cried about it had it been my car, would have been happy it broke while on the hoist rather than while being driven to be honest. You don't want to replace a stupid plastic fuel heater that isn't even needed in 99.99% of places? Don't buy a 320d then, because that fuel heater will be the least of your worries.

                                          • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 19:50

                                            @brendanm: So you would fix it if you were paid?

                                            • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 11:35
                                              +3

                                              @[Deactivated]: I would charge no labour and just part cost. There is no additional labour to fit it as it's removed anyway. It is wear and tear on a part, no way I would cover the cost of the part. Had I not understood how to remove it, and had broken it using excessive force and stupidity, I would pay for the part.

                                              • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 11:52
                                                +1

                                                @brendanm: I was talking about the initial service and any required work known upfront.

                                                I'm going to cut to the chase. You'll either get it or refuse to.

                                                You are not willing to work for free. You're willing to work for a fee.
                                                The deciding factor for you is money.

                                                The customer (OP) is willing to have the car worked on by you if the cost is know upfront.
                                                The customer has expressed they would have gone a different route had they known there are unforseen costs.
                                                The main deciding factor for the customer is knowledge of unforseen costs.

                                                You've decided that informing the customer of potential problems is a mutual inconvenience.
                                                The customer does not think so.

                                                So out of your perception of convenience, you've decided to omit information pertinent to the customer's decision in order to secure a sale.

                                                • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 12:43
                                                  +1

                                                  @[Deactivated]: The circumstances are unforseen, how could anyone possibly let the customer know about it? Regardless of what you seem to think, that isn't how the world works. People working on your goods are not liable to replace old, worn out parts for free. Don't like it, do it yourself. You can then break it and have the annoyance of having a car stuck in your driveway that doesn't run, as well as tracking down the part.

                                                  There is also no "different route" for the customer to take, the fuel filter MUST be replaced. To do that, you must remove the heater. If the heater is old and brittle, it will likely break. Therefore, the only outcome, no matter who does what at what time, is that is is inevitable that the heater will break, and will be replaced.

                                                  You either get it or you don't, you obviously are not, and have never been in an industry where you have to actually work on things, and when these things are old they sometimes break. Enjoy your utopia where everyone knows exactly what's going to happen in every facet of their lives, and you can foresee every problem that may ever be encountered. Sadly I am stuck in the real world.

                                                  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 12:50

                                                    @brendanm: Okay. You don't get it. You're trying to project it on me.

                                                    And you think I work in a hands off industry.

                                                    If I were to work on my subject and not cover informed consent, and I have a complication, I am out of a job for a while if not for good. Maybe jail.

                                                    But you're right. I don't get it. There's no need to inform the customer of potential problems as they're unforseen like an obvious brittle part from a car you've mentioned is well known to have lots of brittle parts. Who could've known?

                                                    After all, the only factor that is important is how convenient and how many cars you can service a day. Minimum effort and risk, maximum income. At least according to you.

                                                    • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 14:35

                                                      @[Deactivated]: Medical sector is different to automotive, noone is dying if op has to spend $300 on a fuel heater. It has nothing to do with convenience, customers don't want to be called to be told that "you have a 5% chance of X item breaking", for every single item on the car. They just want the job done. The majority of people understand that things don't last forever, and sometimes things break due to age/poor design/whatever. Some people have nothing better to do and like to cry about it on the internet, and pretend that everyone is out to get them and rip them off.

                                                      I had no problem keeping repeat customers for over 15 years doing things the way I did them, so it's quite obvious that you and danstar are the odd ones out.

                                                      • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 14:52

                                                        @brendanm:

                                                        I had no problem keeping repeat customers for over 15 years doing things the way I did them, so it's quite obvious that you and danstar are the odd ones out.

                                                        So you've had a customer retention rate of 100% or you don't understand the concept of confirmation bias. Your customers that don't return cannot tell you why they left.

                                                        • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 17:15

                                                          @[Deactivated]: Haha again, where did I say 100%? You sure do love assumptions.

                                                          • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 18:33

                                                            @brendanm:

                                                            Haha again, where did I say 100%? You sure do love assumptions

                                                            See below (reply to your other comment) to understand why I'm inferring 100%. It's only an assumption if it is based on nothing.

                                                            100% for this case can be inferred because you think only I and Danstar are the odd ones out. Ie. Your repeat customers are everyone else but. If you want to be pedantic, assign a number minus the percentage us two people would have represented.

                                                            I had no problem keeping repeat customers for over 15 years doing things the way I did them, so it's quite obvious that you and danstar are the odd ones out.

                                                            • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 10:59

                                                              @[Deactivated]: That's a ridiculous inference. You and danstar are the odd ones out on here, in the comments. In real life you get people who would think the same, and would probably lose them as customers, which I would be happy to do, as they are more trouble than they are worth. There have been people who I have requested that they find someone else to do their work in future. Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always correct.

                                                      • Danstar on 13/12/2018 - 21:06
                                                        +1

                                                        @brendanm: IMO I can almost guarantee more then 50% of the people who agree with your POV, would be wanting and expecting the mechanic to pay for the part to be replaced.

                                                        Thinking about it more. If this happened to me, I would’ve even appreciated if the mechanic at least offered to give it for a discounted price (50%?)…for the part and no charge for labour.

                                                        Lose some to possibly obtain a long term customer and possible referrals

                                                        • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 21:11

                                                          @Danstar: Might want to look at results of the poll. Also look at your negs and my +s.

                                                          • Danstar on 13/12/2018 - 21:23

                                                            @brendanm: Yeh cos people on here always love to go against the consumer or someone complaining. Have a look at every other lost on these forums.

                                                            And as I said, all the people who agree with you. I’m pretty positive they would argue wanting the mechanic to pay for the part

                                                            • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 10:56

                                                              @Danstar: The people that agree with me would want the mechanic to pay for the part? That doesn't make any sense, as if they agreed with me they would be agreeing that the customer should pay. I think people have been pro common sense rather than anti consumer, especially as they are consumers themselves.

                                                              • Danstar on 14/12/2018 - 12:16

                                                                @brendanm: Yeh they would cos right now they only have an opinion on someone else's issue. When it becomes there own, their opinion would change.

                                                                Ie. People who bag police, but who would they call the instant they're in trouble ?

          • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 09:15
            +1

            @brendanm: The mechanic is happy to accept payment but shouldn't be liable for damages he/she causes?

            Perhaps it was a genuinely flaky piece of kit, it's still negligence to not inform the customer first. Regardless of how you put it simply because the mechanic always had the option of not completing the job but elected to proceed for his financial interest, ie. getting paid, the mechanic can be and is liable.

            The mechanic isn't a charity and is liable for damages. When something was in it's default state working, and after being told the mechanic broke something and the car will not operate optimally without replacement, a cause and effect has been identified and liability assigned.

          • All Blacks NZ on 12/12/2018 - 22:49

            @brendanm: Haha. Imagine that. You would do 1 car a week.

            • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 11:34

              @All Blacks NZ: Exactly, at least someone gets it

              • Danstar on 13/12/2018 - 13:04

                @brendanm: Every mechanic I've ever been to has called me (not them personally, usually the admin staff they have) to inform of any extra work they have come across and advise I get it fixed/replaced.

                • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 14:27

                  @Danstar: Yes that is how it works. They didn't know this part needed replacement until it was removed. Therefore you can not call the customer until it's an issue. Normally it's not an issue, sometimes it is.

            • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 12:11

              @All Blacks NZ: Sounds like the only pitfall of informing the customer is not getting as many customers.

              You didn't mention a change in quality of service, your only mention is the decrease in income.

              Objectively, your grievance is self serving.

              Ps. Incase you think I don't get that the cost will increase for the customer, I get it but it will not be linear as other providers will figure out how to efficiently price the cost of assessing a vehicle and work the cost of risks into the profit margin.

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