Complaining Neighbours

robertorodrehgo on 16/12/2018 - 07:38

I've lived in the same ground level flat for 2.5 years in the young suburb of St.Kilda. it's a small group of 6 dwellings and everyone gets along, that was until we had new Tennant's move in directly above us.

I've never conversed with the new Tennant's, the first interaction was a letter from their real estate agent advising us that if we didn't make adjustments to our noise levels then further actions would be taken.

2 weeks later an email came through from my landlord who I lease through privately with a documented list of sound disruptions, these were things like
3pm - loud drunk men playing music
7am - door slamming
7am - car idling
6pm - loud talking
4pm - loud music

I phoned my landlord instantly and explained that I wasn't denieing any of the accusations, infact I agreed with them but the fact was that they are not matters to complain about to which he agreed.
About a week later after work a couple mates we're around about 4pm on a Friday "I hope this won't be happening all night!!!!". I was inside so when my friend told me I thought I'd try and nip the situation in the bud. I waited about 10 minutes and seeing as we share the same back stair case, I walked up and knocked on the door. Explained that I think we got off to the wrong start, introduced myself and my 3month old puppy that was in my arms at the time and tried to understand how we could come to an understanding. This lady was so unreasonable, yelling at me, arguing. After then minutes I said I've tried to do the right thing and I'm sorry we can't work things out.

She went to the police! Said I circumnavigated her security system a d that I used bullying and intimating tactics and threatened an IVO.

I've realised this couple is crazy, but I'm worried that they have all this documented information even though I've done nothing wrong. I just got an email from the council that they have also complained too.

I'm a tradie in my 30's, I live with my girlfriend and little doggo, I'm in bed, lights off by 8.30pm 6 nights a week and on a Saturday night I might be up until 10pm. We have no parties beyond a couple Stubbies on our porch after work with a radio going.

Should we contact vcat? The council? I just want to get on the front foot because this couple upstairs obviously has an agenda and seems like they've done this before. I've gathered statements from all other tennants that state that I am in no means a bad neighbour and that I don't disrupt the privacy or noise levels of anyone else. Also in 2.5 years I haven't had a complaint about me previously.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • tomsco on 16/12/2018 - 07:51
    +11

    What a piece of work.

    I think council would only take concern with actual excessive noise, not her petty squabblings (ie. What the EPA would seem excessive), so the list you’ve received thus far should suggest you’re safe. Add to that you have statements from your neighbours, so I think you have positive documentation as well.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 16/12/2018 - 15:25
      +43

      The police can sometimes overreact and be unreasonable, particularly when the informant has exaggerated or outright lied to them. I would pay a proactive visit to the local police station and brief them on the situation before it gets out of hand.

      • RocketSwitch on 17/12/2018 - 10:28
        -7

        They will only get involved when there's personal injury.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 11:05
          +5

          That's a myth.

          • RocketSwitch on 17/12/2018 - 12:08
            +1

            @Scrooge McDuck: They said it to me twice in my experience.

            • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 12:09

              @RocketSwitch: What did you report?

              • RocketSwitch on 17/12/2018 - 12:41
                -1

                @Scrooge McDuck: Hit and run.

                • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 12:48
                  +3

                  @RocketSwitch: So that's a completely different scenario. Yours was a driving infringement and a property damage dispute between strangers. This is an ongoing dispute between neighbours which has the potential to escalate.

                  • RocketSwitch on 17/12/2018 - 13:56
                    -7

                    @Scrooge McDuck: Sure it is different, however, in my situation it's more serious and they have more power. Good luck on the cops getting back to you or do anything in this case. There's no way in hell they would. No way. I don't even think they have any power to do anything in this situation anyway, in my situation, they did.

                    They do not work on potential for something to happen in this case, as any neighbour dispute, it has potential. They don't treat cases like that. It has to be VERY serious. This is not.

                    • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 15:27
                      +1

                      @RocketSwitch: Police respond to neighbourhood noise complaints late at night (unless they're unavailable), so that's a counterexample to your point. And who knows what lies OP's irrational neighbour might tell them.

                      I objected to your comment politely the first time, but now you're clearly talking out of your arse.

                      • RocketSwitch on 17/12/2018 - 15:32
                        -3

                        @Scrooge McDuck: Where in OP's message does he note he was making noise at night? It's not against the law to make noise during those times. Read what I wrote. What you wrote is a different scenario. OP is in bed by 8:30 PM. You politely write what fits your agenda.

                        • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 15:36
                          +2

                          @RocketSwitch: You made an assertion, I argued that that assertion is incorrect by providing a case where it doesn't apply. That's what a counterexample is. Let's not have a 10 page argument because you can't comprehend what I write.

    • tonsta on 17/12/2018 - 14:44

      council normally acts when 2 or more complaints a filed, I don't see this going anywhere especially if there is no history.

      • Seraphin7 on 17/12/2018 - 16:34
        +18

        Council normally acts when there's a fine that can be issued.

        • MementoMori on 18/12/2018 - 10:54

          Comment of the year

  • Seedy seed on 16/12/2018 - 07:53
    +1

    Sounds like you need a can of (profanity). Just spray in their mouth as they yell and watch them flop about.

  • Ryanek on 16/12/2018 - 08:03
    +56

    I suggest you buy a drum set.

  • John Kimble on 16/12/2018 - 08:12
    +55

    I feel for you. People like that shouldn't live in apartments.

  • robbyjones on 16/12/2018 - 08:22
    +9

    I would think that the noise at the times you state were a normal part of living. I would head up to the police station and have a chat with them about it, same with the council. Also, if it is a block of apartments there would be a strata, I would ask for the issue to be raised at the next strata meeting, although as you rent it will need to be one of the owners that make this request. I can't imagine it getting any better, they sound nuts to me, maybe time to look for somewhere else to live, who needs that in your life.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 16/12/2018 - 15:30
      +32

      7am - car idling

      OUTRAGEOUS!!

      I agreed with you up until the last line:

      maybe time to look for somewhere else to live…

      People shouldn't reward bad behaviour. Stand your ground OP!

      • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 17:58
        +9

        Someone else probably had enough of this couple and the couple is bow your problem. Let them win or move them along to the next unfortunate soul.

        The crappy gift that keeps going around.

  • Hardlyworkin on 16/12/2018 - 08:39
    +3

    If what you have indicated is all true then it sounds like your neighbours are rediculous. If they are documenting then it is best you do the same. Great if you have the other neighbours inside already.

    If they are complaining about noise don't they need some proper proof like recordings showing the noise level. Even then at those times of day, what are you allowed to do?

    I agree getting on the front foot is your best step. I would be tempted to start world war 3 if my neighbours were like that. You will just have to go about it in a smart way, some noise could be the least of their problems. What the hell are they doing in st Kilda anyway?!

  • Melb69 on 16/12/2018 - 08:39
    +3

    This couple sound like they haven't lived in an apartment before. Those hours are reasonable and if it were me I would have knocked on your door and asked if it was possible to tone it down. Assuming it was excessive, but it doesn't sound to bad. Always another side of the story. Wonder if they are OZB and will post the other version. Noisy neighbour wont stop making noise and harassing me.

    You cant please people all of the time. Just state back to the complainers in writing your position and note that the noise you are making is not unreasonable. Sounds like they don't work or is it that they are night shift workers and sleep during day. They should try ear plugs when they sleep then.

    By the way as soon as they make any unreasonable noise jump on it for being hypercritical.

    I find it funny abou the car idling at 7am. My neigbhour has a Chrysler 300c V8 gangter car and he leaves work at 5am and turns over the car for about 5-10min before he leaves then burbles his way past our house. Lucky I tend to be up easly anyway. I've never complained to him.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 08:49
      +13

      My neigbhour has a Chrysler 300c V8 gangter car and he leaves work at 5am and turns over the car for about 5-10min before

      Kindly remind your neighbour that he is just wasting petrol. A 300c does not need warming up.

      • Melb69 on 16/12/2018 - 08:53

        I don't think petrol is the issue. Even when there was that petrol crisis ages ago he still lived with it as a daily driver. He loves that car. I love it when he drives past and I'm out. He slowly drives past. The window slowly goes down like 5cm and a hand pops out as he waves. Then window goes back up and he turns into his driveway. The windows are so darkly tinted you cant see who's in there. Also has 21in chrome wheels with low pros. He like in his late 50s.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 08:57
          +16

          He like in his late 50s

          That explains why he warns it up. His last 15 cars were carburetted junk with manual choke.

          Sounds like a cool dude though. Old school cool with a hint of gangster.

          • Melb69 on 16/12/2018 - 09:07

            @[Deactivated]: Well he should probably warm it up before he tramps it onto the main road.

            • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 09:08
              +2

              @Melb69: Nice. Do you have his number. I think I have found a new friend.

              Next you will tell me it's an SRT.

    • Quantumcat on 16/12/2018 - 10:37

      he leaves work at 5am and turns over the car for about 5-10min before he leaves then burbles his way past our house.

      I wonder if you live near us! My neighbour does the exact same thing, except my poor partner tends to sleep 2am-11am so it really messes him up. And he parks in the visitors spot right outside the bedroom window. I'm hoping that since he rents he won't be there forever. I can't understand the need to idle your car for ten minutes unless it is a crappy old car and it is the middle of winter. He also occasionally leaves his loud motorcycle idling for 15 minutes at 6-7am on a weekend morning.

      • Melb69 on 16/12/2018 - 10:45
        +4

        Leave a nice curtesy note on his car windscreen saying could he move his car further down due to your partner on night shift and needing to sleep. Usually you ask nicely the person may move. At least you asked. I would move if someone left a note. But then that's who I am.

        • Quantumcat on 16/12/2018 - 11:10
          +2

          Thought about it, but the kind of person who can't work out for themselves that it's pretty rude to leave a loud motorcycle going early on a Saturday morning with a dozen houses in through-window earshot, probably wouldn't react well to a nice and polite note

          • Dingus on 17/12/2018 - 08:59

            @Quantumcat: How would you know that though? Doesn't seem like you have ever actually talked to him. Probably is a reasonable guy.

          • Scrooge McDuck on 17/12/2018 - 21:52
            +1

            @Quantumcat: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

          • Jolakot on 18/12/2018 - 08:41
            +1

            @Quantumcat: To be fair, some people really are just oblivious to how their actions affect others. Not in a malicious way, they just don't think about it.

            I say leave him a kindly worded note, he probably assumes everyone is up at 6 so no one would mind.

    • serpserpserp on 18/12/2018 - 14:50

      Wait until you get a neighbor with a Harley that they take for a ride at 6am every morning and rev the crap out of it before they leave.

  • Melb69 on 16/12/2018 - 09:12

    Can't tell as its been de badged. I know hes spent a bomb on it hence why he will never get rid of it with the amount of money he spent maintaining it. The previous owner put those 21s on and didn't upgrade the suspension, so all that had to be replaced. Its so gangster that it even has the underbody led lighting. Surprised it doesn't do the bobble with the suspension settings.

    • mafmouf on 17/12/2018 - 18:58
      +1

      Yes.

    • slipperypete on 18/12/2018 - 14:18
      +1

      that's the answer….post now closed

  • oscargamer on 16/12/2018 - 09:24
    +16

    You should audio record every interaction with her. Yes you can do this in vic.

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 16/12/2018 - 09:48
      +4

      This. You're are also under no obligation to inform her that you're recording either.

    • try2bhelpful on 16/12/2018 - 19:19

      I would, absolutely, do this so she can't make further claims of harassment. It will also allow you to review what each of you has said.

  • Gandalf the Thrifty on 16/12/2018 - 09:41
    +7

    Nearly 2hrs and no bikies comment…

    • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 09:53
      +3

      Surely someone will mention it before the day is out. I'll keep refreshing in anticipation.

    • Mad-cow on 16/12/2018 - 09:56

      Would they really touch up their best clients?

      • Gandalf the Thrifty on 16/12/2018 - 10:00

        True. Maybe OP will get a visit next time they slam a door.

    • wordplay on 16/12/2018 - 10:03

      sounds like this bloke probably is a bikie anyway with his fellow associates around all the time, but we are just getting one side of the story. loud music, engine noises all the time, boozing it up all afternoon.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 10:41
    +1

    what did the police say when they contacted you, (did they contact you?). It is not up to her if the courts issue an IVO, and the courts don't like issuing them for trivial matters like this, and the police don't like getting involved in these sort of matters either.

    She can make a lot of noise and be a pain in the ass but in the end nothing substantial is actually ever going to come of it.

    I really hate to say this but this is probably only going to end with one of you moving out.

  • Donaldhump on 16/12/2018 - 10:53
    +22

    Talking at 4pm, you bad boy.

    Tell her she is being unreasonable and that she can complain as much as she likes, but she will have to take the matter to court.

    I’d complain to her real estate about excessive walking loudly through the night.

    Honestly she is a gronk, I’d play some slayer till 12 midnight.

    • orangetrain on 17/12/2018 - 08:06
      +2

      Most places say no excessive noise between 10pm to 6am.

      • Donaldhump on 17/12/2018 - 08:36
        +5

        And where does 4pm sit when you attempt to solve this cryptic puzzle, inside or outside of the time range you specified

      • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2018 - 11:37
        +3

        So play slayer all day while you are out or in from 6am to 10pm

        • inertia8 on 18/12/2018 - 07:54

          Angel of Death on repeat should do nicely.

  • robertorodrehgo on 16/12/2018 - 11:00

    The police didn't contact me, a letter to their real estate agent was forwarded to body corporate, was then forwarded to my landlord then onto me. They've just glammed up the story and said if the matter would be taken further an IVO would be recommended. So sounds like they just kept saying more and more lies to get the police to say what they wanted to hear.

    Also I can confirm that they work from home and never leave the house. Actually unsighted for the majority of the time.

    The advice listed in this thread seems as if my lovely neighbours are already implementing. I've got a transcript which I probably shouldn't have, with all the commentary between upstairs Tennant and real estate agent, indicates they have recordings of audio and video. When I "circumnavigated" the security system before she answered the door she kept screaming WAIT, WAIT and I'd be like "it's really ok". She just kept screaming wait.

    We used to be with the same.estate agent and had gone privately with our landlord after the initial 2 years. With my tin foil hat on, we think these problem Tennant's might of been put in to try and cause this drama. Either that or they want to break their lease after 6 months. Either way seems very excessive.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2018 - 09:15
      +7

      The stairway and external parts of the units are typically common property. You didn't circumnavigate anything.

    • howsthat on 17/12/2018 - 21:03
      +8

      'Also I can confirm that they work from home and never leave the house.'

      Maybe tackle it a different way. Being a rental property, do they have permission to use the property for 'working from home' purposes from the Real Estate/Landlord? The rental contract/agreement that they have may even have exclusions in it preventing resident from 'working from home'. Council rules may also require them to get appropriate permission to 'work from home'. Do they and/or the landlord have appropriate insurance cover for them to be 'working from home'? I'd be putting phone calls through to Council and Real Estate for starters and ask them questions re 'working from home'. Also bring to Strata Management attention that they are 'working from home' etc……time to throw it back their way.

      https://propertyonly.com.au/landlord-tips/can-a-tenant-run-a…

      • slipperypete on 18/12/2018 - 14:21
        +2

        this is why these posts are time worthy…..clever ideas that most have never considered

  • subywagon on 16/12/2018 - 11:13

    As much as it sucks, you might not have any option but to move if you don't want to deal with this crap. Crazy people like that don't let up. And if it is some kind of plan to get rid of you, the landlord might not let up either.

    It might be time to look for a new unit and in the meantime show them what loud noise REALLY is. Non stop. Be relentless. Give them a taste of crazy back.

    • Flanders on 16/12/2018 - 22:42

      show them what loud noise REALLY is.

      Cannot breach db level for noise polition law reasons… But play moderately loud music which is the type of music they really hate. If, your having to move out and/or being evicted anyways.

    • cameldownunder on 17/12/2018 - 17:42

      Report them to the police as Psychological ill people, needing assistance.

  • Blue Cat on 16/12/2018 - 11:48
    +9

    If you are in (very) good relationships with all other neighbors and like you said everyone was content with your noise levels for the past 2.5 years, you could give the crazy couple a taste of their own medicine.
    Agree with the other 4-5 dwellings to start submitting noise complaints on the crazies, even if they don't make any noise.
    When the council/police/strata start receiving 4-5 complains from 5 different units they will divert all their attention to the crazies.
    After all, there is no way all 5 different families could all lie together and not tell the truth! No one is possibly that organized!
    Though, it really depends on your relationship with the other sane neighbors so it is not an ideal plan… and could legally backfire if not done perfectly…

    • Flanders on 16/12/2018 - 22:46
      +6

      I agree with you in the most part (as a viable option) except for do not lie to the police. Giving false statements to police is a fairly serious offence IMO. As you said,

      legally backfire if not done perfectly

      Or even if done perfectly, could still get caught for the false police report by some clever and savy policing and investigation.

      • Blue Cat on 16/12/2018 - 23:28

        The police don't even bother if someone is trespassing in your private property or your stuff gets stolen, I think they won't even care to read a noise complaint.

        • Croshema on 18/12/2018 - 15:25

          Untrue.

          Stolen proterty is too hard.

          Responding to a noise complaint is easy, they usually turn up, that coupled with the fear of media backlash if they don’t investigate reported incidences that later escalate.

    • MementoMori on 17/12/2018 - 11:12
      +5

      A twist on this - I would get written references from your neighbours that you are NOT a noisy neighbour and take this to your local police station, your landlord and her RE agent.

      They will be the ones who deal with the complaints and will realise SHE is the problem. It won't eliminate the issue but it will reduce it a fair bit.

    • DarthAntz on 17/12/2018 - 15:47
      +1

      complain about their aggressiveness as neighbours, which they display. you dont need people like this around your pet, your girlfriend or any children in the area. the same letter that goes to the landlord goes to the police, with the apology that the police as involved as they had been called to the tenant on false accusations before.

  • Donaldhump on 16/12/2018 - 12:07
    +10

    I once got an email from a old lady saying I was loud talking and walking around at all hours through the night.

    I replied and said I was overseas working and had been for 3 weeks, so I suggest you go get your hearing aids checked.

    I would just tell your landlord she is over the top and she will have to take the matter up through the appropriate tribunal, her claims will get dismissed, ie talking at 4pm ffs you are a human,

    • jelko on 16/12/2018 - 13:17
      -1

      Why would an old lady email you?
      Why does this old lady have your email address?
      Sounds like an implausible story.

      • Gandalf the Thrifty on 16/12/2018 - 14:06
        +5

        Why would an old lady email you?

        Toy boy?

      • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2018 - 14:43

        My old lady emails me all the time. I wish mum would stop it.

      • Donaldhump on 17/12/2018 - 02:48

        Because once upon a time we were civil to each other, and due to occupation I am away from home about 30-35 weeks a year

      • MementoMori on 17/12/2018 - 11:46

        It's very common/normal for all owners in a small block body corp to have each others email addresses.

        Whilst it's much less likely for us to know our neighbours these days Australian society hasn't fully turned to mud.

    • DiscoJango on 16/12/2018 - 21:58
      +12

      bro your shits haunted. get dafuq out

  • whooah1979 on 16/12/2018 - 14:45
    +2

    suburb of St.Kilda

    You live in Victora. Feel free to record all interactions with your new neighbours. Keep the recordings for a rainy day.
    http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/vic/cons…

    • MementoMori on 17/12/2018 - 11:47

      I tried reading this but it's not clear.

      Can you do this only in a public area and also without consent/notification?

      • CMH on 18/12/2018 - 01:51
        +1

        Public area and only if you're party to the conversation. (no recording other people talking basically)

  • whooah1979 on 16/12/2018 - 14:57
    +2

    3pm - loud drunk men playing music
    7am - door slamming
    7am - car idling
    6pm - loud talking
    4pm - loud music

    The complaint hours are within Port Phillip's local laws for works. Feel free to party within those hours.
    http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/out-of-hours-permit.htm

    (a) 7am to 6pm Monday to Friday
    (b) 9am to 3pm Saturday

    • Tnetennba on 17/12/2018 - 00:50
      +2

      Those are permitted for construction works… with a $104 + $380/day permit. Not exactly the same thing.

      • whooah1979 on 17/12/2018 - 07:58

        It's not uncommon for councils to use similar hours when processing residential noise complaints. Some won't bother with complaints when the noise happens between 07:00 to 19:00 or 23:00 Monday to Friday. Weekends 08:00 to 15:00, 17:00 or later.

      • HighAndDry on 17/12/2018 - 11:44
        +3

        Maybe whooah is suggesting OP take out a permit and let a jackhammer running in their property. Just to give their neighbours how much worse it can be. Maybe with some perspective, they'll stop complaining about normal day to day noise.

      • macrocephalic on 17/12/2018 - 14:47
        +1

        That's a great idea, fork out a few hundred dollars and just go crazy with a circular saw from 7am to 6pm for a few days. When they complain, point to the permit.

        • jelko on 17/12/2018 - 16:52
          +1

          No, it's an awful idea. As well as annoying the intended recipient there will be many others who will be affected and will no doubt send a brick through your window.

  • try2bhelpful on 16/12/2018 - 19:24
    +4
    • I would talk with your other neighbours and make sure they have no issues with your tenancy.
    • I would make sure your landlord is onboard with what is happening and supports you.
    • I would then ask him to get a meeting with the strata committee and explain what has been happening and that those neighbours are the only ones complaining.

    You need to make sure that you are part of the majority not the minority in this.

  • Chris Topher on 16/12/2018 - 20:26
    +1

    Where is the 'bikie' suggestions???

    I'll make the call then….

    Bikies?

    They would only need to stop (not the engines) on the drive… nah. No good. Everyone suffers.

    How about…. bikie rocks up at any time of their choosing, after dark, knocks on their door (loudly) and asks for Frank (or George, who-ever). At some random time another bikie rocks up, etc.

    After a few nights of this, bikie rocks up, bangs on door. Hi, I'm Frank, any messages for me?

    Yeah… an old phone prank, but hey. :-)

    • Flanders on 16/12/2018 - 22:57
      +1

      Reminds me of this ahol that came round to my first housing commission unit, told me "I've just got out of jail, this is/was my unit, Im moving back in" I went along and figured he was mentally ill, not all there… until he threatened to take place back by force, then my demeanor changed, made him jump the fence as quick as he could lol. Found out later that he had bashed a nice old cripple fellah, when he had lived there. I should have flogged him.

      Anyways, something like this would probably work, some ruff looking type comes round and tells the crazy couple "Ive just come outta jail, this used to be my place, Im moving back in" . If the ruff looking fellah is on a harley, even more 'convincing'

    • Neptunesblood on 18/12/2018 - 07:13

      Lame

  • DarkOz on 16/12/2018 - 21:40

    I've gathered statements from all other tennants that state that I am in no means a bad neighbour and that I don't disrupt the privacy or noise levels of anyone else. Also in 2.5 years I haven't had a complaint about me previously.

    You have nothing to worry about. This is all you need if they want to take it further.

  • MessyG on 16/12/2018 - 21:59
    +7

    Have a look at the EPA noise regulations for Victoria. Give a copy to the strata and landlord with relevant bits highlighted. You might have to find out the decibel level of the noises you're allegedly making and demonstrate that these fall within safe levels. Do not confront them again, just go through the landlord. You could also make a counter complaint about unreasonable complaints and request via the strata for them to stop. Sorry this is happening, crazy people are so unsettling.

  • DiscoJango on 16/12/2018 - 21:59
    +1

    could your puppy accidentally take a shit on her front door mat

    • Third_Gear on 16/12/2018 - 22:09
      +7

      Would be far more effective if the OP did.

      • Hughesyboy on 16/12/2018 - 22:19
        +2

        Just blame the puppy. Even if it's bigger than the dog itself!

      • try2bhelpful on 17/12/2018 - 00:20
        +14

        Time to call in the poo jogger.

        • D6C1 on 17/12/2018 - 09:04
          +1

          A few of them around. And free

  • Other on 16/12/2018 - 23:40
    -1

    It seems many people have not noticed this:

    with a radio going.

    We had a guy partying tonight (Sunday) with the bass going through the apartment - doff doff.
    But you are not him.

    Thank you for cyclones God. Some people may die, I just hope its either him or me (I'm equal opportunity in that way).

    • Hardlyworkin on 17/12/2018 - 13:53
      +2

      doff doff? Is this the hardcore version of doof doof?

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