Online Purchase debited 4 years later

Ltazdevil76 on 12/01/2019 - 02:16

I purchased an item online back in 2014, paid for using Visa Debit card. I received the item no problems. However, the merchant for some reason never processed the payment. Now fast forward to today, so last week the transaction from 2014 got processed on my Visa Debit Card and as there was not enough funds, the transaction has overdrawn my account.

I have raised a disputed with my bank based on the fact of timeframe. Its not my fault the merchant did not process the transaction back in 2014 when there was funds in the account. Wondering what OzB members think of this. Should there be a limit of time for a merchant to process a transaction?

Financial

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2019 - 12:48

    Of course the seller only has a limited time frame to process the transaction but from memory I think that time frame is 7 years.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2019 - 14:54

      Not if quite standard 2 year expiry on cards is used and CVV numbers are changed.

      • HighAndDry on 12/01/2019 - 15:17
        +6

        No, the 7 years is the statute of limitations on debts. OP owes the money, not the credit card.

      • spaceflight on 13/01/2019 - 17:02

        Credit cards do not have a standard expiry time and 2 years is not the most common.

        Credit cards don't need an expiry date and traditionally had one because the magnetic stripe would wear out requiring the card to be replaced after about 3 years.

        With contactless and clip cards they last much longer so expiry dates can be longer.

  • dcep on 12/01/2019 - 14:04

    Instead of charging you, they should pay you for 4yrs of storage fee on their unsold goods. (No $ change hands even after you've provided them CC payment details)

    So, go ahead and charge them back.

    Let the flaming begins !

    • spaceflight on 13/01/2019 - 17:04

      And then the store can charge a monthly rental fee.

  • Ace Ventura on 12/01/2019 - 17:03
    +12

    I dispute that this ever happened.
    Unlikely your CC didnt expire in that time, unlikely the merchant kept your cc details for that period of time as it goes against PCI compliance that they must adhere to to have a merchant account.

    and the OP has gone awol.
    I call troll.

    • lockmc on 13/01/2019 - 13:03

      Not everyone strives for PCI compliance. My every day card expires in 2023 and they could have paid with PayPal. It's all possible.

      • Ace Ventura on 13/01/2019 - 14:10
        +1

        Yes every merchant strives for PCI compliance, if they lose enough points the bank closes their account. No merchant could stay in operation for the 4 year time frame without meeting compliance.

        Your card expires in 2023 because its somewhat new. OP may have used a new card too, I said it was unlikely not impossible. I don't know of any cards with more than a 4 year expiry, the CVV changes with new cards. Although it is possible to charge without CVV on some terminals, but that's the first thing the banks check when investigating a fraudulent charge.

        The original post says paid with visa debit, not paypal.
        Still not sold on the story.

        • Seedy seed on 13/01/2019 - 16:54

          My cvv has never changed since i was 18, 4 cards later.

        • spaceflight on 13/01/2019 - 17:07
          -1

          I don't know of any cards with more than a 4 year expiry

          All of my cards have more than a 4 year expiry. One has a 10 year expiry.

    • spaceflight on 13/01/2019 - 17:40
      +1

      unlikely the merchant kept your cc details for that period of time as it goes against PCI compliance

      Who says the merchant stored the card details?

      They could have stored a PCI compliant token.

    • meowsers on 14/01/2019 - 20:58

      Credit card issuers Visa/ MC now offer a service to update merchants with your new details. Just an FYI to those who ghost out on their subscriptions by cancelling cards. The merchant will be provided with your new card details and you'll still get billed, unless you cancel automatically. You can't opt out.

      https://www.visa.com.au/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-acc…

      https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2016/08/some-bill-providers-au…

  • shreav on 13/01/2019 - 10:46

    Did you know way back when that they had not charged you for the item?

  • minotaurian on 13/01/2019 - 12:05
    -7

    Sarcasm# I walked out with goods from a store few years back, I didn't pay. Ain't it is the merchant responsibility to follow up with any missed payments. Since it's been a while, I think I own this product now. #Sarcasm. This what OP sounds like, except he stole unintentionally.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2019 - 12:08
      +1

      You realise by doing it unintentionally it completely changes the nature of the act?

      • minotaurian on 14/01/2019 - 00:22
        -1

        The act of unintentionally taking unpaid good is not theft or stealing, but, the act of not returning or paying of such goods once realising the goods have been taken is theft. The fact OP did not realise the goods were unpaid until now, once OP realised, it was either return or pay, otherwise it would be theft.

        However, the merchant charged OP for unpaid goods using a debit card details provided and authorised by OP in the past, logically, I don't see how after a period of time voids a merchant the ability to charge. Hence, I see nothing to dispute with the bank. However, if the goods were paid previously, and the merchant charged again, then it would be theft on the merchant's end, and hence reason to dispute with the bank.

        At the end of the day, the merchant should have contacted OP with regards to said transaction prior to debiting OP's debit card. Merchant was not in the wrong, it was just handled poorly.

        • shadowangel on 15/01/2019 - 08:23

          and they did email the op ? OP could have asked for bank details or another form of payment. The store clearly had trouble charging his card.

    • Samsungnote10 on 13/01/2019 - 12:34

      Thats a hard one.

      Maybe you deserve to become prime minister..

      If i stretch my brain and think really hard, i might be able to conclude its called theft.

      I dunno

  • Gelato on 13/01/2019 - 12:12

    Wondering what store it is just in case i bought something from them years ago…

  • Ricciardo on 13/01/2019 - 12:45
    +1

    Normally the rule of thumb is no longer than six months or past the EOFY. In this case its obvious that the seller has cut corners in staff or systems.

    It does sound somewhat unusual given that if it was just a few transactions normally they would write it off and if it was a significant amount and they were greedy enough to try to debit this long after the fact most of the payment details would be out of date.

  • bnebgnhunter on 13/01/2019 - 13:08
    +1

    Good luck
    Possibly this company has gone into receivership and they are chasing as much bad debt as they can processing batch card numbers

    There may be more to this story, at the end of the day though, 4 years is a long time for nothing to happen or is it possible that the company payment gateway got changed and queued orders are now being processed years later

    Contest it with your bank, but the company will then be involved in the dispute with your bank and can present proof of you buying the item 4 years ago, the bank may not see this in your favour

    Amazed the card didn’t expire either in 4 years, as they usually issue a new CVC on the back, that’s what the CBA has done for me years in a row

  • MITM on 13/01/2019 - 13:21
    +2

    Would like to know more details of the transaction. Amount/description/online purchase/local/interstate/overseas/retail chain store/ new/secondhand

  • Capo93 on 13/01/2019 - 13:22
    +3

    It’s even more amusing when the OP hasn’t replied to one comment!

    • bnebgnhunter on 13/01/2019 - 14:14

      Sounds suspect

    • love2buy on 14/01/2019 - 17:40

      He's busy eating popcorn

  • crabcancer on 13/01/2019 - 15:56
    -1

    Ahh, maybe this is they guy who took the phone off the desk at the Vodafone?

    OP at Vodafone shop
    "Ahh, there is my phone all nicely wrapped and ready to go. So nice of the rep to just leave it there."
    "Oh, that guy sitting by it looks sus, better keep my eye on him"
    "He is walking off to look at stuff, probably casing the place before stealing my phone"
    "Better grab it now that he is distracted"

    OP grabs phone and walks out.

  • Levathian on 13/01/2019 - 18:49

    Wow I buy so much online I don't think I'd notice if someone didn't charge unless it was a massive purchase. There's no chance in hell I'd know what I bought 4 years ago.

    I'd plead ignorance and say you don't know what the charge is for and dispute it.

  • lltravel on 13/01/2019 - 18:53

    lol he expects to get a free ride

    not sure if serious. you bought something, pay for it.

  • RiotDealz on 13/01/2019 - 20:23

    Overdrawn fee usually around 30 dollars, you had 4 years of extra cash, best to clear it and move on imo.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2019 - 20:25
    -1

    Kindly ask the bank to credit the overdrawn fee and pay the money you the business you dealt with. Simple.

  • johnno07 on 13/01/2019 - 23:11
    +1

    What was the cost of the overdraw fee?
    What was the value of the item?
    How far ahead are you thanks to interest and inflation?

  • jno on 14/01/2019 - 06:59
    -3

    Whats the over drawn fee? Like 20 bucks? Dont know how you dont always have money in there..this is a waste of time

  • Wiser on 14/01/2019 - 08:52

    Is OP wasting everyones time?
    We should not encourage such posts
    Our professional resources to search for bargains are wasted here.
    Is OP Gerry's employee?

  • Kamsi on 14/01/2019 - 10:26

    what is there to complain about, gees your bought the item in 2014 they ask you to pay it in 2019 simple.

    • Samsungnote10 on 14/01/2019 - 12:13

      Buy it in 2014 ask you to pay in 2085,
      When the aussie dollar might have changed currency

      Simple

      • Kamsi on 14/01/2019 - 12:49

        as if you can live that long :)

  • pf2 on 14/01/2019 - 10:41
    +1

    Request the overdrawn fee to be waived but accept the charge from the vendor

  • Nads2407 on 14/01/2019 - 11:12
    +2

    OP gone missing. I smell a troll.

  • picklewizard on 14/01/2019 - 15:25
    +1

    Amazed at the response to this.

    If the tables were turned, OP was asking "I did some work for someone 5 years ago and forgot to charge them - should I send a bill?" the answer would be a resounding F NO.

    • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:32

      Actually it's mid-way between that example, and "I did some work for someone 5 years ago, sent them an invoice but now realised they never paid - should I send another bill?"

      Plus there's a matter of perspective - if I was the one owed money, I'd write it off. If I was the one owing money, I'd pay it.

      • picklewizard on 14/01/2019 - 15:34
        +1

        Not really, the shop neglected to process the transaction (e.g. bill the customer.)

        Not paying an invoice would be a failing on the part of the customer. OP hasn't failed to pay.

        • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:42

          the shop neglected to process the transaction

          Except they haven't. They've processed it now. You can argue that it's late, but legally (not common sense) says a debt is valid for 7 years.

          • picklewizard on 14/01/2019 - 15:44

            @HighAndDry: …which brings us back to my original analogy of billing a customer after 5 years.

            • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:46

              @picklewizard: Oh right. Eh, processing a transaction isn't the same as sending a bill. Sending a bill is technically what creates the debt - that has already happened (otherwise OP would have had nothing to authorise). OP authorised it, but again, technically, that doesn't matter - it's still OP's obligation to pay, not just authorise payment. Up until it's actually paid, that obligation is still on OP.

              • picklewizard on 14/01/2019 - 15:51

                @HighAndDry: But we're not talking about legal definitions here, rather common sense and general opinion, in which case the two are roughly equivalent in a case where there was every intention of the customer to pay, but a neglect on the provider to take steps to retrieve the money from the customer.

                TL;DR: OzBargain people are weird.

                • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:57

                  @picklewizard:

                  But we're not talking about legal definitions here

                  Eh, ultimately, especially if OP is dealing with a bank, everything comes down to legal definitions. You'll note I put in "technically" liberally in my comments because I can see that this is a bit of a ridiculous situation for OP to be in.

                  TL;DR: OzBargain people are weird.

                  Oh yeah, but that's where the fun happens.

  • markathome on 14/01/2019 - 18:14
    +1

    I'm also amazed at the responses to this. I've had banks waive fees on a much weaker basis than this. OzBargainers protesting this post need to explain how it makes economic sense for the bank to fight you on this…

    If you brought a $15,000 computer and didn't notice the charge for 4 months at 2% the cost to your bank of the overdraft was $100.

    Event at 4% - better than any savings account at the moment - the cost is $200.

    More likely you brought something for $200 and didn't notice the charge for 2 months costing your bank $0.67 to $1.30.

    That is, it costs the bank more to pay the lady/gent to answer your phone call on the matter than to lend you the overdraft. If you take it to the Financial Services Ombudsman the bank losses on this issue could blow out by 40,000% to 120,000%.

    I reckon you'll get the overdraft fee reimbursed in one to three painful phone calls to your bank. And there's a 50/50 chance you'll get it refunded quicker than it takes you to read all these posts. If not, come back to OzBargain and name and shame the bank so we can avoid them. I wouldn't dispute the charge, just explain the situation and get the overdraft fee refunded.

  • justwii on 14/01/2019 - 23:49

    Every year I have two new credit cards to take advantage of all those new card offers. You must be some loyal customer to keep the same cc 4 years more, but not very ozbargain like.

  • tazdevil76 on 15/01/2019 - 00:28
    -4

    I am amazed at the comments.
    Here is more info.
    Purchased a couple of collectibles from eaglemoss.com total $200 back in 2014. Items were received.
    Funds were in the account at the time of purchase. The account balance fluctuated over time between $100 and $1000. Received an email about a month after purchase saying "could not debit amount insufficient funds". I then made sure enough was in the account. Time has gone on and honestly there had been a time I did forget about it. It took me by surprise when it was debited recently.
    Visa Debit card expires this year.

    • Eeples on 15/01/2019 - 01:34

      Did you reply to the email?

    • shadowangel on 15/01/2019 - 07:04
      +2

      so basically you didn't pay and where happy with the free item. now you want to charge back after you finally paid ?

    • ClawShrimp on 15/01/2019 - 08:50
      +1

      “However, the merchant for some reason never processed the payment.“

      But they did process the payment…a month after purchase.

      You might be able to claim that you forgot about the payment 4+ years later, but a month later?

      I think the best advice I’ve read is to contact your bank to see if they’ll waive the overdrawn fee, but accept that the $200 debt is yours.

      • StickMan on 15/01/2019 - 13:36

        Then they have a bad system. Everyone would be doing online shopping with $1 in their account if this was the case.

        Seller needs to set charge on the card. They don't care about amount on it, if they have the banking equipment set up correctly.

        Proof - they did it now, and it overdrew.

    • xuqi on 15/01/2019 - 13:34
      +2

      What it boils down to is this:

      — Some schmuck sold & shipped items to you (before receiving full payment).
      — When they tried to draw payment, your account was overdrawn.
      — They emailed you letting you know they were denied payment.
      — You ignored the email and conveniently wiped it from your memory, hoping they would forgo/forget.

      The 'honestly, I forgot' doesn't cut it as every time you looked at the collectibles you would have been reminded of this.

      Now you've come to tell all of OZB? why?

      Quit wasting everyone's time (yours, the bank, seller, everyone else's) and do the right bloody thing.

    • johnno07 on 15/01/2019 - 22:57

      I love when the truth comes out. Absolutely classic. Surprised you bothered responding rather than just becoming the next in a long line of disabled users.

  • bargainhunter87 on 15/01/2019 - 11:14

    popcorn.

  • UFO on 15/01/2019 - 14:21
    -1

    I'll just leave this here:

    A person steals if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

    Soooo… you've given payment details to a vendor for property received, and now that you've received that property and obviously have no intention of returning it because its been 4 years (therefore permanently depriving it), you want to withhold payment as promised (thereby dishonestly obtaining that property).

    It might just be me, but I don't see "time" mentioned is any offence provisions for Theft.

    I wish you well in any future Court dealings ;).

  • ratoloko on 15/01/2019 - 14:41

    Why didn't you contact them at the first place about the payment?!
    If any payment takes minutes to process I already want to call the place just to avoid headaches. You got the orders but never paid for it or even interested to contact them about it as it seems like.

    Karma is a bitch.

  • Weezle on 15/01/2019 - 21:39

    So this is basically stealing? you got caught stealing…. no sympathy sorry!

  • TtiGeR on 16/01/2019 - 05:03

    Both Visa and MasterCard have "late presentment" policies.

    Cardholders can dispute a transaction if a merchant failed to present the transaction within the required timeframe (varies by network).

    Reason Code 74: Late Presentment

    Definition
    The transaction was not processed within the required time limits and the account was not in good standing on the processing date, or the transaction was processed more than 180 calendar days from the transaction date.

    Most Common Causes
    The merchant or service establishment did not deposit the transaction receipt with its acquirer within the time frame specified in its merchant agreement.

    Time limits for depositing transactions are set to ensure timely processing and billing to cardholders. When you hold transactions beyond the period defined in your merchant agreement (usually one to five days), you lose money, affect customer service (cardholders expect to see transactions on their Visa statements within the same or next monthly cycle), and possibly invite a chargeback. No remedies exist for chargebacks on transaction receipts deposited 181 days or longer after the transaction date.

    https://www.visa.com.au/dam/VCOM/global/support-legal/docume…

    Note: this only means that Visa will favour the cardholder if:
    1. Cardholder disputes the charge under the "late presentment" reason code, and
    2. Merchant cannot prove that the transaction was presented within the required timeframe.

    Usually, the bank will also reverse any associated fees if a dispute was resolved in cardholder's favor.

    However, the merchant may still be entitled to pursue another form of payment from the purchaser. That's a separate issue. (Please seek legal advice.)

  • cupcake on 16/01/2019 - 14:12

    How come it took 4 years to process the order???

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