Anyone Know What People Are Really Paying for Latest Commodore?

brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2019 - 12:41

I'm thinking of buying a new ZB Commodore LT or RS wagon. (the 4 cylinder turbo model). Holden aren't meeting their sales targets on these due to buyer resentment, "not a real Commodore", etc.

Carsales have the LT for ~$32k drive away and the RS for ~$33k. These are all 2018 plate vehicles.

Does anyone know what further discounts or inflated trade-in prices are on offer?

I'm cross-shopping this or for similar money 2nd hand 2017 Skoda Superb 162tsi wagon which are also ~$33k. Similar Octavia wagons are more expensive.

The Commodore / Insignia seems a good car. You'd hope the German build quality is OK. 5 year warranty is good…

I'd really hope to keep this purchase under $30k d/a.

thx

Automotive Holden Commodore

Comments

  • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 12:42
    +4

    Anyone Know What People Are Really Paying for Latest Commodore?

    Simple, no one is buying it.

    I can't imagine a worse resale than a ZB Commodore wagon… so not just the normal sedan, but adding wagon into the mix…!

    Stick to a VF Commodore wagon (which I'd happily own any day of the week).

    • brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2019 - 12:51

      They are doing 500-600 a month which is lousy compared to Toyota HiLux. Nothing like the good old days of Commodore and they are still the largest selling "large" car (as far as I can tell).

      Happy to hear your alternate suggestions.

      • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 12:53
        +4

        Alternate would be VF wagon. Sure, it doesn't have modern safety features like radar cruise, but is still a very strong proposition with blind-spot monitors etc all standard. Good value for money at ~1yo too.

        I say this as someone who worked for Holden for 5.5yrs, drove them on a regular basis etc.

        • apple2016 on 11/03/2019 - 13:25
          +1

          VF is a great car, but it still commands higher resale value making it not the best choice for used car buyers.

          • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 13:29
            +1

            @apple2016:

            making it not the best choice for used car buyers.

            Why? 2017 SV6 Series 2 wagons, ex-rentals, are about $26-28k. These were about $45k new.

            The VF size car can't be compared to the Insignia size car.

            • xeion on 11/03/2019 - 13:56
              +1

              @spackbace: I'm not sure if this is wide spread, our current work car is one of these and has gone through 3 sets of tires in 60-70k.
              This is from only open country highway kms.

              E: I should add that all our other fleet cars generally get to 90k+ on one set.

              • abuch47 on 14/03/2019 - 11:23
                +1

                @xeion: part and parcel of rwd but your clearly not getting the right tyres. VFSS chirping is getting more out of its tyres than yours on the stock bridgestones.

            • brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2019 - 15:43

              @spackbace: I'm a bit confused.
              ZB wagon is taller and longer than VF but 30mm narrower.
              ZB cargo area is about 100L smaller than VF?
              ZB is ~70kg lighter.
              2.0 has more power and torque than the 3.0.

              I've had the 3.0 in a VE and hated it. It was asthamatic and gutless unless you thrashed the daylights out of it. I've had the 3.8 in several models (SV6 & Calais V) and it was OK but not great.

              What am I missing?

              • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 16:01

                @brad1-8tsi:

                2.0 has more power and torque than the 3.0.

                Eww would never recommend an Evoke. SV6 at a minimum.

                What am I missing?

                If you want the ZB, by all means go ahead.

              • p1 ama on 11/03/2019 - 22:00

                @brad1-8tsi:

                I've had the 3.0 in a VE and hated it. It was asthamatic and gutless unless you thrashed the daylights out of it.

                And you want to get a turbo car? That makes no sense, the whole point of a turbo is that you hahve to thrash the daylights out of it and really keep it in the higher revs for the turbo to kick in when you want. You're better off getting a V8 if you want the linear flat power.

                • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 23:20

                  @p1 ama: Yeah peak torque of the ZB is at 4000rpm, compared to 2800rpm for the 3.6

                  • brendanm on 12/03/2019 - 18:02

                    @spackbace: Have a look at the actual torque curves for both the engines. For some reason Holden has the "low tune" engine with torques restriction compared to the same engine in other brands, most are doing 400Nm compared to the 350 for the "commodore".

                • brad1-8tsi on 12/03/2019 - 07:58
                  +2

                  @p1 ama: I've had a remapped 1.8tsi for the past 10 years. Only 135kw but 320Nm. Even standard it was 120kw/250Nm. Torque is there from ~1800rpm. Peaks around 3500rpm. Modern engines with small turbos that spin up quickly and are out of breath by 5500rpm are quite cruisy.

                • brendanm on 12/03/2019 - 17:57

                  @p1 ama: Lol was the last turbo car you drove made in the 90s? Things have come a long way, turbos are used nowadays to provide torque early and for a good portion of the rpm range. Small turbos with very efficient wheel designs are very nice to drive around town.

                  • p1 ama on 12/03/2019 - 20:57

                    @brendanm: No, I'm a huge fan of 4 cyl turbos, so I know quite a lot about them. Sure, turbos have improved drastically from the 90's, e.g. twin scroll turbos largely address the issues I discussed before. However, physics is still physics. If you want turbo to kick in early, then you won't have any boost at the high RPMs when you need it the most.

                    Small turbos with very efficient wheel designs are very nice to drive around town.

                    Being nice to drive around town is a pretty low bar. The problem with these small engine turbos is that they feel punchy (in the sense that you get a jerk when you put the foot down), but the boost dies before you get any sort of speed. Having raced a few of these small turbos with a naturally aspirated V6, they might jump out of the gate faster, but they run out of boost too soon.

                    I've driven enough turbos and large naturally aspirated engines to know that they drive differently. When I drove an STi and wanted to have some fun, you'd keep it in low gear and as close to redline as possible, then the power on tap is amazing. Then and again, it's a track car.

                    These new Euro small turbos are great cars, but if OP wants a car that goes fast when the foot goes down, nothing beats displacement.

                    • brendanm on 12/03/2019 - 22:11

                      @p1 ama: Op specifically states he doesn't want to have to rev the crap out of it. Driving around town is what 99% of cars do, so it's an appropriate bar to set. At no point did op say he wanted to race, so around town low down punch is what he is after.

                      If you want the best of both worlds there is always sequential (too complicated) or compound turbo setups (can't think of any factory setups that arent diesels). I suppose there is always the 118tsi if you hate reliability.

    • brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2019 - 12:57

      I've owned several Commodores (VB, VL, VN, VR, VS, VP, VE in basic, calais, SV6 and Berlina trim and a couple I've forgotten about). I'm sure the VF was good but i can't bring myself to do it again and have the bits of trim falling off and the engine having to be revved to billy-o to get some life out of it. I'm a bit hooked on turbo engines these days. :-)

      It would have to be a V8 if I got one.

      Resale isn't a big deal as I keep my cars for a long time.

      Wagon? That's what I need. I bought a sedan/hatch instead of a wagon on my last purchase and regretted it regularly ever since.

      • Ryanek on 11/03/2019 - 14:30
        +1

        So why stick with Holden at all? Why not a Japanese/Korean alternative?

        • brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2019 - 15:28

          Not actually sticking with Holden. I've had a Skoda Octavia since 2008 and also have a Honda Accord Euro. Before the Skoda it was a Mk4 Golf Convertible, U13 Nissan Bluebird, VK Commodore, Suzuki Swift and about 40 other Fords, Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Hondas, Lancias, VWs, Chryslers, Subaru Liberty etc.

          Also, so many of the Jap/Koreans have stopped offering wagons.

          Passat isn't bad but I think the Skoda is built better.

          TDI? I wouldn't rule it out but I do mainly short trips and I drive limited mileage every year. I don't mind the TSI engine. It has reasonable torque down low and gets great economy.

          • HighAndDry on 11/03/2019 - 16:05
            +2

            @brad1-8tsi:

            and about 40 other

            Wait what. What are you doing to these things?

            • brad1-8tsi on 12/03/2019 - 07:48
              +3

              @HighAndDry: Have had a licence for 40+ years.

              I was a mechanic and used to buy/sell 2-3 cars a year so in first 10 years had ~20 cars. I've also bought cars that I thought I would like and hated them or they looked like they would be money pits (Lancia, Cortina, ZC Fairlane, EH Holden project car) and sold them within a couple of months .

              (ex)Wife had fully maintained company drives from 1988-2016. I had full, unlimited access and put about 50% of the miles on them. Generally they were turned over every 2 years but at one point the fleet manager was changing them at 9 months.

              I've slowed down now.
              The Skoda has been in the driveway almost 11 years / 190k km.
              The Golf Cabrio was 2 years.
              Subaru Liberty 6 years.
              U13 Bluebird 6 years

          • pantsparty on 11/03/2019 - 16:14
            +1

            @brad1-8tsi: You drive limited mileage every year but have owned almost 50 cars? Are you rich? I think it is safe to say you have an addiction or are a car dealer. Maybe buying another car isn't the best idea given you hardly drive them.

            • brad1-8tsi on 12/03/2019 - 07:50
              +1

              @pantsparty: Change of job and where i live.
              Used to be in the suburbs. Now 5km from Sydney GPO and have excellent public transport. Have reduced my annual km from 25k to 5k.

          • brendanm on 11/03/2019 - 20:53
            +1

            @brad1-8tsi: Tdi doesn't really have an issue with lower mileage, mine has been fine, even when the wife was off on maternity leave and only ever did short trips to the shop. If you are worried, can always delete the dpf, which is what will be happening with mine next service time. The torque of the tdi is much higher than the tsi, very nice to drive.

            Vw and Skoda build is very similar, only mentioned the be over the Skoda as there are a lot more of them around, easier to find one with the options you want.

          • TEER3X on 12/03/2019 - 00:34

            @brad1-8tsi: I've been in a taxi that was a Skoda Octavia in Europe and it had almost 1 million kms. That was in 2011, so not sure what year the car was exactly.

            Never seen a car with that much mileage on it.

      • brendanm on 11/03/2019 - 14:47

        Why not get a b8 Passat TDI? Perfect if you hate revving, insane fuel economy, not a "commodore".

    • The mikky on 07/06/2019 - 22:06

      Hi spackbace,

      What are your thoughts on the diesel, I mostly ask because it’s a diesel wagon I can probably get a 2018 model with a few thousand k’s on, but about 25 - 27k, the reason I ask I is that I do 40 -50kms a year and wouldn’t think I would get much money for it in 6-7 years anyway, just thought I would ask your thoughts, and any suggestions for a different car I should look into, I also want lots of leg room, Lots of cars make my legs cramp when I do long drives, when I say long drives I mean 500km plus.

  • WreckTangle on 11/03/2019 - 13:16
    +11

    What People Are Really Paying for Latest Commodore?

    Loss of Pride?

  • Herp on 11/03/2019 - 21:23
    -1

    Something interesting I've noticed online is that people who don't own one love to crap on the ZB, but almost every single person who actually owns one loves it. Yes it's extremely disappointing that local production shut down but either way the ZB was what was going to come after the VF, and I am curious to see how the haters would have reacted if the ZB was built here. Most of the hate seems to centre around "hurr its not Australian, "its not a real commodore" or "it's not a V8" which are all close minded opinions, again, often from people who don't own one.

    Read the whirlpool thread and you'll see what I mean. This thread also answers your questions regarding pricing.

    • afoveht on 11/03/2019 - 21:43

      They may be great cars but "real Commodores" they are not. That's not closed minded, it's just what it is.

    • spackbace on 11/03/2019 - 21:54
      +1

      It's an Insignia. And it's the 3rd time they've tried bringing them into the country, and subsequently failed.

      I just re-read all the comments and no one has said it's a "bad car", so don't be do quick to defend it.

      It's a bad purchase decision. It'll have shocking depreciation, backed by a company who'll likely close doors before your warranty expires.

      Dunno about you but I'd hate for my $30k car to be worth pennies in 5 or 6 years.

    • p1 ama on 12/03/2019 - 00:09
      +1

      I think you miss the point - it's not really about whether it's produced in Australia or not, it's about what a Commodore is all about. In the same way that a hot hatch isn't a Hellcat, an Insignia is not a Commodore. There was more to the Commodore than simply being made in Australia, it had a distinctive character. Funnily enough, the V6 Camry is probably more of a Commodore than the ZB Commodore.

      Either way, I think Ford did better than GM here. When Ford cut local production, they cut the Falcon brand, they didn't try to import a Mondeo or Mustang and convince people who didn't know any better that it was a Falcon. They were upfront about the fact that cars like the Falcon (or Commodore) don't really sell anymore, and cars like the Mondeo (though not the Mondeo itself) are what people are buying.

      Holden just stuffed up big time and their marketing is dishonest. I'm not saying that the Insignia is a good or bad car, I'm just saying that it is completely true that "it's not a real Commodore" and "it's not a V8". It's not closed minded to want a naturally aspirated V6 RWD with a linear, flat throttle response.

    • whooah1979 on 12/03/2019 - 06:17

      almost every single person who actually owns one loves it.

      This pool of owners are very small.

      Let's face it. Holden isn't what it used to be. Gone are the days of large sedans with bigger engines. The market is now a tiny tin boxes or SUV/Utes.

      • ZB on 07/06/2019 - 20:02
        +1

        that is correct Holden is not what it used to be … Enter the ZB, but more specifically the HOLDEN Commodore 4 cylinder 2 Litre Petrol TURBO. I have owned the sedan since early April 2019. The reviews say it's brilliant.. It is it is. very very quick , alert and agile.. they have stripped about 1.5 hundred weight… it's got 191kw and 350nm of torque.. It is the sweet spot Commodore with power to weight ratio to dream of. Yet it is very very solid and has fantastic grip. brakes are superb.. you trust them immediately.. going into corners is jyst a dream.. it vehaved like those elves in in Lord of the Rings.. just so lithe.. so pleasing.. you wanna drive her all the time. I got this sweet understated yet magnificent darling for 28k (b4 my trade) in April 2019. The Sat Nav (not embedded) is IQ d by Android Auto. The screen is not pretty but washed out by pastel colours not like the hit lippie colours in many European cars. Hey but guess what, I fell so much in love with this little big girl .. I commanded the Android Auto to act by voice ( including dictating texts and getting a seemlees 2nd chance to edit it begire sending.. so forget the screen in the main. And this pretty gal responds so quickly and accurately to yiur voice commands. you are falling mire deeply in love.. it's as great feeling. but I've always loved the plain girls anyway… eh they stick with you eh??. I adore her curvy and meaty rear. From the front she us biggest but tapers. I live her so much… She offers so much.. and she has a hatch back. that turns me on .they call it lift back.. it's not automatically lifting up for you .. she's not perfect.. but who wants the tempermental at all. isn't that great too. she revs between 1250-1400 revs at 112 klm.. ohhh ing what a gal.. but as I said she is stacked so well.. 191kw and 350nm of torque… and this wonderful gal is entry level LT model… that is all you need… Yet she has the feature of starting her up remotely ( safe from the public) on a 40+ summer day and she will cool you diwn b4 taking off. Aren't you too in love with her now.. and you haven't even met her Race down and meet her .. Remember this gorgeous full figure girl is the ZB Commodore Sedan LT 4 Cylinder 2 Litre Petrol Turbo.. the flagship to me.

        • Daabido on 08/06/2019 - 00:21
          +6

          Started off interesting, ended weird and creepy.

          • ZB on 09/06/2019 - 09:43

            @Daabido: oh for goodbess sake I love the Commodore so much I gave a lit if specifics about the car I used language to demonstrate that I live car. I would be grateful if you commented on car. Honestly it was not at meant to offend. I am sorry

          • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 11:13
            +2

            @Daabido: That's an understatement

        • brad1-8tsi on 18/06/2019 - 08:40

          Thanks for your input but the message would be received better if you learnt some punctuation.

          I honestly can't read it.

  • pegaxs on 11/03/2019 - 23:26

    People are paying nothing, because no one is buying.

    My local dealer has a brand new Daewoo Vauxhall Commodore and it is priced at less than a brand new Hyundai i30 and they still can’t sell it.

  • jhaley3180 on 12/03/2019 - 07:33

    Not sure what people are paying, but I often drive the Calais V Tourer and find it a ripper vehicle. I agree that it doesn't have the 'soul' of a traditional Commodore, but it is one heck of a good vehicle.
    Isn't Holden still running the promotion where if you test drive the ZB and but something else they'll pay you $500-$1000? If so go and take one for a drive, give it a crack make the offer at a price you're comfortable with, what have you got to lose?

    • SydStrand on 18/06/2019 - 14:51

      'What advantages does this Commodores have over say, a train, which I can also afford?'

  • pjcook on 12/03/2019 - 07:35
    +2

    I own a ZB Calais V Tourer. Best car I have ever owned.

  • CtrlAltSpoods on 12/03/2019 - 11:19
    +1

    I bought a red ZB VXR (Like a sport Calais, I guess)
    Best car I've ever had, they're extremely quick and comfortable drive.

    Variable suspension is awesome when put into VXR mode, you feel everything and engine sound is alot louder than cruising mode.

    The 9 speed transmission is very smooth as well.

    I traded in a VE Thunder Ute, and got the car for $30k ex-demo with 700 km's they even threw in a genuine Holden towbar.

    Only thing I hate about it is the auto off shit at the traffic lights, but they can't remove it due to some law about the environment.. Nothing a new habit to turn it off can't fix I guess.

    • brad1-8tsi on 12/03/2019 - 14:18

      Isn't there some way of getting into the ECU?

      On a VW/Skoda you can go in with VCDS / OBD11 and set the minimum battery voltage to ~16v and that disables stop/start permanently.

      • CtrlAltSpoods on 13/03/2019 - 11:03

        I haven't looked into it, but I will have a search on the web to see what I can find.

  • coin saver on 12/03/2019 - 14:05

    There are still some new my17 commodores around including Sv6 sedan,ute and wagon.Calais sedan and Evokes.

  • paulieau on 12/03/2019 - 16:24
    +1

    Up until a few weeks ago when I got t-boned at an intersection, I had the ZB RS, fantastic car, miles ahead of the Australian made Commodores of the past in terms of refinement and build quality. Based on that, and the fact I was able to walk away from my accident without any serious injuries I'll definitely be replacing it with another ZB.

    As others have said, all the hate seems to be from people who haven't driven it or had a good look at it.

  • haimrevolution on 12/03/2019 - 19:19
    -1

    Holden ewww hasn’t been right for a while. I don’t actually understand the whole Holden status symbol thing. Maybe if you drive an effigy or something old but not after 1990. Am I the only one to think every Holden generally looks the same as a sedan

    • rompastompa on 13/03/2019 - 14:37

      Maybe if you drive an effigy

      FJ, not an FG.. ;)

      • spackbace on 13/03/2019 - 15:08
        +1

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Efijy

        Sooooo pretty!

      • haimrevolution on 14/03/2019 - 15:20
        +1

        Hi rompastompa nah I meant effigy. It’s a concept car they made and I must say one of the nicest I’ve seen in a long time. Owning one of them would be a dream

        • rompastompa on 14/03/2019 - 15:26

          Sorry, my comment was tongue in cheek. The Efijy was based off the Holden FJ (they didn't make an efFiGy).

          And yea, so nice. Owning one would make me too paranoid to take it out of a showroom :D

          • haimrevolution on 15/03/2019 - 07:27

            @rompastompa: Ha ha I get ya. You know what Holden needs a v8 diesel. Hear me out here I know it goes against everything it stands for as I’m not sure they ever made one I’m sure I could google search but haven’t. A v8 diesel with slick lines would not only revamp their company but get rid of the stigma that they use so much fuel plus it would be quick. I know I’m going to cop some flack for this part of the comment but with Ford being a direct competitor for Holden they need to at least match or surpass their line up. Ford has the mustang which looks slick, the focus as well and the ranger which is like beast mode. Holdens best car is probably the commodore which looks like a Mazda 3 from the side but larger hell even the grill is similar. Somewhere Holden lost the plot to go from cars like the fj or Efigy to where they are now.

  • ZB on 09/06/2019 - 20:27
    +1

    There are a number of posts abiut the ZB, including mine in which I essentially raved about the flagship car, the brilliant car, by far the best Commodore (perhaps I'll say 'car') that I have ever owned by a country mile.
    It is the ZB SEDAN COMMODORE 4 CYLINDER 2 LITRE PETROL TURBO. I don't care what badge is on it, the widget is outstanding, that is what matters, that should be the central point to focus on. To argue that is not a Commodore is just a furphy, put up by others as a distraction who are jealous, cling on to the big v8 idea, or just irrationally negative,and will never ever admit much that it is good at all. I'm terms of being Australian, all I will say is that it is a fact that it had a lot of Aussie engineers tuning the car for Australian conditions. Reviewers who have driven the non tuned car and the tuned car, said that the Aussie tuned was a far better car.
    As I said earlier, it is the sweet spot, the stand out car in the ZB range. The 191kw and 350nm of torque, together with the 1.5 hundred weight or so lighter than the V6 (forget it), and 4 turbo petrol loping on the highway at a mere 1250 to 1400 revs at 112klm per hour!!!!!! puts a calm grin on your face.You are driving a fine saloon car. But ask it to overtake at say between 80-140, and it is very very quick, scintillating, quiet and seamless with the 9 speed transmission. It cost me 28k b4 my trade. It is a gift at that price … a demo with 5000 klm, but looked a day old when I collected her. I read a post here where a person said that those he knows that bought the car absolutely love the 4 cyl petrol turbo or the ZB (my caveat to that is .. buy the '4' petrol turbo). Add me to the list.Other ZB cars do not satisfy as much as the '4' petrol turbo. I bought the LT model,it's all you need.It has 17" tyres, and the Aussie tuners claim that these are superior to 18" no doubt due to its much lighter weight than earlier Commodore. I spoke earlier about the sat nav ,and even though the screen is washed out and you need Android app or Apple Play, I use A Samsung phone and I have set it up to respond to my voice commands.. you don't need to read the screen much anyway at all. My voice google asst commands were perfectly interpreted and connected virtually instantly. Overall, despite what I say ( including its wonderful brakes and it's fabulously sold grip on the road, unless you drive it and are near ready to update, people really do not seem to actually ' hear' that it is a brilliant car as the reviews say. A crying shame. It is best to try and get an opportunity to actually overtake by accelerating between 80-120 to really go 'OMG' how good is this car. I read a fellow say (he has a gen 2 v8), that it felt quicker than his v8, and he seemed to be blown away (he actually refused to accept that it was true) that it revved between 1250 and 1400 revs at 112k per hour. He said his v8 was travelling at 1650 revs at that speed. Yes it has halogen lights but I have found them very good .. you can't get everything for nothing.. this is an entry level car. But aside from that there are good safety features, and my favourite feature of being able to start the remotely for up to 15 minutes b4 you get in on very hot days to cool it down b4 you get in. In doing that the engine management system is still locked down unless you have the keys, and then just one of the ignition, you drive off feel cool, therefore more comfy and safer for this little beauty. Test drive this car .. you will be very happy with it.

    • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 17:11
      +2

      I honestly can't believe you signed up here just to write weird, extremely long, poorly written paragraphs about how good your new "commodore" is. You first say it's the flagship car, then later it's entry level? Very confusing and odd.

      • spackbace on 12/06/2019 - 12:04
        +1

        And with a username like that, do you think they'll come back to participate in the deals section? lol

    • SydStrand on 18/06/2019 - 15:41

      the flagship car, the brilliant car, by far the best Commodore (perhaps I'll say 'car') that I have ever owned by a country mile.

      Ignore the creepy love letter for a minute; merely claiming this is the 'best Commodore' you've ever owned, implies you've owned multiple, so you're hardly an impartial voice on this car.

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