Bogus Traffic Fine - What Are My Options?

SlavOz on 19/04/2019 - 12:06

I've just received a $350 fine for apparently stopping in a bus zone. I can't recall doing this, but I know I'm only human and there's a chance I did do it even if I don't remember. The issue is that the location listed is somewhere I know, beyond a doubt, 100% I've never been.

I've gone back and checked my calendar, and even confirmed with friends that I was with them at another location on the date and time the offense is listed. I'm the only one who drives my car and I never lend it to anyone so there's no way this fine is legitimate. I know this must sound like a common occurrence but I simply cannot accept this.

It's the long weekend so I haven't had a chance to call and ask for more details yet. I'd appreciate any help from anyone where with a similar experience.

If this was a traffic camera fine I could ask for the photo, but it's not. Does the State need to provide any actual evidence against me in order to pin this fine, aside from just a random police officer's word?

Automotive

Comments

  • QW3RTY on 19/04/2019 - 12:09
    +1

    In NSW, you are able to open a dispute for the fine. Here's a link.

    Just write what you have communicated here, and if the ticketing authority has any evidence they may provide it to you. They also might not.

    Either way, it's a good first step before escalating the matter to your local court, pleading not guilty. If you're not guilty, either one of the options above will exonerate you.

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 19/04/2019 - 16:25

      Don't expect much from the first option… i got fined for parking illegally somewhere, stated (with proof) i wasn't there. Was ignored. Then got the photos and see the fine is for the wrong date. Off to court i go.

      • QW3RTY on 20/04/2019 - 10:28
        +1

        I did't expect much from the first option either. But it's necessary and part of the process of getting your money back.

        I contested a fine in writing, it got denied by Revenue NSW — all they did was ask the council for their set of facts.

        I decided to proceed to local court and contested via a submission together with the evidence obtained. The judge found in my favour considering the inconsistencies in Council's story & logic.

        If the proof that you and your car weren't at the location is good proof, then make a submission with that proof to the court, pass Go and do not pay your $350.

  • EightImmortals on 19/04/2019 - 12:20
    +1

    So wait? There was no photo taken, and no fine left on your windscreen at the time of the offence?

    I haven't heard of mere parking fines being sent in the mail? Maybe that's a thing now?

    Anyway, if they haven't sent you proof of claim (like a photo) then send the fine back to the address listed on it with an explanation letter containing the details you have posted here. DO NOT ENGAGE THEM IN PHONE OR EMAIL CONVERSATIONS. Use written communication only (preferably registered mail so they can't lie and say they didn't get your letters). If you have proof you were somewhere else at the time and they still keep harassing you then elect to have it heard in court. Gather your proof and talk to a duty solicitor at the court on the day. Don't pay these crooks their extortion money, if more people stand up they might stop being a pain in everyone's backside.

    • Almost Banned on 19/04/2019 - 13:09

      I got a fine in the post for stopping in a bus zone in NSW 25 years ago with no photo so it is definitely not a new thing.

      • EightImmortals on 19/04/2019 - 14:15

        Fair enough. I've never heard of it before (but then I don't live in capital cities either.)

      • pjcook on 20/04/2019 - 07:20
        +2

        25 years ago there was no photos taken as digital cameras were rare and expensive.

    • SlavOz on 19/04/2019 - 21:12

      I'm not sure whether it's a parking fine or simply a case of a bus-lane camera photographing my car as I was allegedly riding in it. It sounds like a parking fan as the offense says "stopped in bus zone".

      I'll be very interested in seeing what proof they provide. In my experience, photos are usually taken by the officers/rangers when issuing a parking fine as well so they shouldn't have a problem showing this.

      Regarding communication, I would feel more comfortable engaging them in e-mail since everything written is tracked and time-stamped (with their automatic replies also confirming that they're received my messages). If they can give out bogus fines I wouldn't exactly trust them with treating my letters correctly either.

  • Cheeper on 19/04/2019 - 13:59
    +1

    I received a parking fine for illegal parking in Sydney and I had not driven in the Sydney area for over 10 years prior which I contested and they admitted an error.
    So yes, they are slack and do make mistakes.
    Explain it to them as you have above and see what happens. Ask for what evidence they have, you have a right to see that.

  • askme69 on 19/04/2019 - 15:34
    +1

    NSW?

  • goegge on 19/04/2019 - 15:50
    +5

    I received a parking fine for illegal parking in Sydney a few years back I knew I never parked there. I asked for photographic prove. I eventually received a photo of the offending vehicle. The vehicle in the photo was a blue Holden Barina with number plate TOU***, whereas my vehicle at the time was a grey Toyota Camry with number plate TQU***.

  • Randxyz123 on 19/04/2019 - 15:53
    +1

    Disputing traffic fines is a huge pain. Also, may I add $350 is an absurd amount of money for something like this.

    Anyway, you'll need to dispute it and prove you weren't there.

    Figure out where you were on that day if you were with friends have them do a stat dec. If you were at the supermarket/pub/wherever you can use your bank statement as proof. If your phone has google maps timeline enabled, you might be able to use that.

    Once you have everything together then send in your appeal.

    • p1 ama on 19/04/2019 - 16:10
      +1

      Anyway, you'll need to dispute it and prove you weren't there.

      Innocent until proven guilty. You don't have to prove anything. They have to prove you were there, not the other way around.

      • tomsco on 19/04/2019 - 19:44
        +1

        If it gets to court. Would be interested in knowing the number of people that just give in. $350 probably worth contesting, but when some fines are around $100, most would not want to waste a day off work.

      • SlavOz on 19/04/2019 - 21:15
        +3

        Unfortunately, from what I've seen and heard, the burden of proof is usually on the individual to prove their innocence. NSW being the crooked state it is tends to treat an accusation by the police/State debt recovery office as sufficient evidence to convict someone unless the individual can prove them wrong. It's a joke that we call this country free.

        • Deridas on 20/04/2019 - 09:53
          +2

          Ask them for a photo. If not, to court it goes.

        • p1 ama on 20/04/2019 - 18:42
          +2

          Unfortunately, from what I've seen and heard, the burden of proof is usually on the individual to prove their innocence. NSW being the crooked state it is tends to treat an accusation by the police/State debt recovery office as sufficient evidence to convict someone unless the individual can prove them wrong. It's a joke that we call this country free.

          No, that's completely incorrect. Having contested several bogus fines in the past, I've found that trying to "protest your innocence" is usually a bad thing. As a defendant, your best bet is to shut up and let the prosecution hang themselves. I've been fined in a place where I knew I did not go on that day. It ended up in court, the prosecution did not have enough evidence to convince the judge and the matter was thrown out pretty quickly.

    • SlavOz on 19/04/2019 - 21:17

      The original penalty notice was around $263, with another $65 added as I didn't pay it by the original due date. I never received the letter in the mail, although I can't be sure of this since I tend to throw all my mail out as it's usually junk/bills which I receive online anyway.

      • HeWhoKnows on 20/04/2019 - 10:53

        Only a fool throws out thier mail without checking it first

      • askme69 on 20/04/2019 - 16:57

        OK, if it wasn't your vehicle, the first notice would have been left on the offending vehicle. Did you not receive the reminder?

        You can still dispute.

        If you have the penalty number and offence details, go online and see if any photos were taken. If none, ring OSR and ask for a copy of the Part A to be emailed to you. Or you can get them to check when you call. If it's council issued, get them to check the vehicle description on the Part A ie: Make, colour, rego etc. As if handwritten (very few nowadays) they often can't interpret (legible writing) the rego and incorrectly input it when loading the penalty info on the system.

        They may knock it out there and then. If Police (general duties) it's harder as the handwriting is crap and they don't normally issue parking tickets and record very limited info. If it's HWP, they will have the ICV (in car video) which can be requested to confirm the rego.

        or, state why it couldn't have been you ie: at work etc and you may need to supply CCTV, Bank records etc, etc. The bad part is that this should have been done at the reminder stage. You can't take it to court as the penalty lifecycle has proceeded normally and unless you were out of the country, in Gaol, Hospital during the lifecycle, you have no grounds to have your appeal of the enforcement order reviewed.

  • Densor on 20/04/2019 - 08:02
    +5

    Check your time line in Google maps. It's a great way to refresh your memory of where you have been and might be able to used as proof (at least remind you of where you actually were).

  • HeWhoKnows on 20/04/2019 - 10:52

    Just write them them and tell them the fine was issued in error and ask them to cancel the fine.
    Tell them you can furnish evidence that you were elsewhere at the time if required.

    HOWEVER
    Given you did not initially respond to the reminder notice it casts great doubt about anything you say.

    The thought process would go like this….

    Couldn't care less about checking his mail
    Couldn't care less about responding to a reminder notice
    Couldn't care less about where he parks

    GUILTY!

    So on second thought, just pay the fine.

    • SlavOz on 21/04/2019 - 15:59
      +1

      So in the odd case that someone moves or their mail is not delivered correctly (I'd say that's a very common thing), that person loses their right to innocence? That's kind of a scary thought tbh. I should not need to earn my rights to a fair and neutral trial. If I haven't done anything wrong I'm innocent until proven guilty regardless of how lazy or unlikable the prosecution thinks I am.

      • askme69 on 22/04/2019 - 23:50

        The notice has been served correctly, as it is sent to the addresses provided by RMS for the rego and by law you are required to update your address within 14 days. So if you miss the first notice, you would still get the reminder. But it does happen that people move in the change over and do notify RMS as required but it just overlaps. OSR are not arseholes, everything is done to the letter of the law, which includes time frames etc.

  • Ozcelt on 20/04/2019 - 15:07

    All good advice above.
    One other thing to consider is that someone has "cloned" your rego.
    My daughter tried to fuel up at a random servo near home recently, and was informed that she must pre-pay to get fuel. She was flummoxed as it was middle of the day, so she asked. Turns out someone stole fuel a few weeks previously, driving a car with her rego. She actually could work out where she was on the day the theft took place - far away, no where even close.
    She contacted the cops and explained what had happened. Cops advised her to go back to servo and ask for video/photo evidence. Sure enough, they saw her rego on an entirely different model car!
    We've since worked out that someone must have taken her rego details when she was parked outside our house some time ago.

    Anyway, may be worth checking that the offending bus zone parker was driving what model car….

    Good luck.

    • askme69 on 22/04/2019 - 23:52

      Yes this happens a fair bit, but you can pick out the dodgy ones by the photos. It really does stand out like dogs balls, the curve of the letter, Numbers etc. Another common one is people steal the number plate off an exact same car, that's a hassle to investigate when they get camera offences etc.

  • SlavOz on 03/05/2019 - 23:24
    +1

    An update in case anyone is still curious - I called Revenue NSW. They initially told me the timeframe to content the fine lapsed since it turned into an enforcement order. Right before I hung up the rep randomly noticed that the details given by the council did not match my vehicle (same make, different model and colour). With that it's pretty certain there was an error so they are investigating internally.

    Interestingly, councils issuing parking fines are not required by law to take photos. They do so for their own records but this isn't mandatory - this was news to me. Luckily there was a photo taken in this instance which should serve as evidence that it's another car, but I shudder to think what would happen had they not taken a photo with this fine. I would be unable to prove my innocence (which despite the law it sounds like I would have to since without a photo it would simply be a parking rangers word over mine).

    Is there a reason photos are not required for parking fines even though they are for so many other traffic offences? Sounds like some loophole invented to make issuing these quick fines easier at the cost of our liberty.

    • Euphemistic on 04/05/2019 - 12:45

      Not requiring photos as evidence is just a carry over from when no one had digital cameras. Progressive departments would be jumping on photo evidence for ease of record keepin and checking, but those a bit slower into how tech bandwagon can carry on doing the same old thing and writing in a piece of paper and allowing human error to stay in the system.

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