Hi everyone,
I sold a used baby infant capsule back in November 18 on eBay. The buyer contacted me today stating that the item was expired and cannot be installed.
They asked for a refund and want to meet in person to discuss even wanting to pursue civilly if need be.
First of all, I had no idea there is such a thing as an expiry date for child seat but apparently, there is based on manufacturer recommendation. I am not sure if there is actually a law against using an old child seat.
Also, I am not sure why the buyer only messaged me now, so long after the sale was completed. If they raised the issue with me during pick up, I would happily cancel the sale.
So far, I told the buyer to contact eBay and I am not sure what the advice will be.
Anyone had similar experience before?
Update
Buyers now said ebay advise them to pursue their own legal avenue. They also got legal advice that it's illegal to sell expired child seat which they say it's expired in September last year prior to the sale.
Update 2
Thanks everyone for the information. The buyer now asked to confirm name and address etc so they can initiate civil action. Serious…… For 150 bucks and a baby capsule that you suppose to use for six months only. Also it's a maxi cosi with Australian standard approval ticks.
Update 3
So I have been ignoring the buyers email and the last message I got last night is just ridiculous and funny.
………….
As I have not heard back from you I will take your lack of response as confirmation of your details. For future reference, next time you sell an item make sure it is not expired and don’t be such a dodgy person. To prey on expectant parents is honestly disgusting.
I look forward to seeing you.
Thanks.
Please give them a link to this thread so that they've an opportunity to respond.
Hi all,
I am the buyer. Firstly I just want to clarify that yes, I take ownership of my own mistakes. I was naively trusting of another person and took them at their word and didn’t do a thorough enough check. However, I’m 19 years old, this is my first baby and I really had no idea about expiration dates of car seats. Also, I checked over the car seat when I received it however did not notice anything wrong with it. I purchased the seat quite early in my pregnancy, probably due to a combination of impulsiveness and excitement.
I went to have the car seat installed last week as I’m due to give birth in 3 weeks, to which the installer pulled off two stickers which were covering the “do not use after SEPT 2018”. I thought these stickers were necessary and did not remove them or look under them during my inspection of the car seat. Considering I bought the seat in November it was already unable to be put into use. I was obviously pretty upset. Not only at myself but also because these stickers were covering the do not use marker, which I found suspicious. The store advised me I could not legally use the car seat or have it installed and the police would issue a fine and request I discard the seat if they were to pull me over for any reason.
I sought the assistance of a friend who is a lawyer who advised I could seek legal recourse as the sale could be labelled as misleading, as it contained no information regarding the expiration date. Also, because the car seat was sold after it had been expired. Obviously it would be a different story if the car seat had expired after I had purchased it, I would take full ownership. This would obviously be done through VCAT. I’m just trying to gain some compensation so I can get another seat and obviously now that I’m weary of purchasing anything second hand it will have to be a new one which costs around $600. I’ve offered to return the seat because it is in excellent condition or even accept half of the buying price considering I can’t use it and return the seat but as you know the buyer has been ignoring me.
$150 may seem like a small amount to most of you on here but to me it wasn’t and still isn’t. The cost to engage a civil dispute is roughly $60 and I’m hoping I can get that covered through a judgement as well. I know I probably seem like petty Betty over here but I just feel really duped, coupled with a combination of my own stupidity.
Did the seat "installer" offer to dispose of the "expired" one and sell you a brand new one?
No they didn’t, the installers at babybunting just lifted the stickers and said they legally couldn’t install it.
@CassieRaye: I would be wary of their advice, after all they sell baby seats and if they can find a way to refuse to install so you have to buy a new one, they will.
Your professional friend did you no favours by not researching ASNZS 1754, state and federal legislation before giving their advice.
My friend advised me of the mandatory safety laws regarding car seats. He was under the impression the stickers have been moved to cover the date. Because I called Maxi-Cosi and they advised me they do not cover “use before dates” with said stickers, which they’ve provided via email. He also said it would be up to the discrepancy of the magistrate and it could go either way, because ultimately they’ll decide if they believe it was a deceptive sale. Obviously the seller says it wasn’t and I’m unsure because of the sticker placement.
AS 1754, lol.
This is the same standard that advises to not allow the child restraint to come into contact with bleach or other chemicals…
Anyway, there is a general use disclaimer for that standard
"Consumers should be made aware though that those restraints which meet the requirements of earlier published versions of AS/NZS 1754 are still generally considered safe, but use of child restraints which are more than 10 years old and meet versions of AS/NZS 1754 published before 1995 is generally not recommended."
I'd be surprised if the capsule you were sold was >10 years old.
First of all congrats on the upcoming arrival of your bub.
Secondly you don’t need to spend so much on baby gear $600 is all good and well if you have the money but if you don’t there are many other car seats out there that will do just as well. I had one similar to this one for my kids https://www.target.com.au/p/mother-s-choice-serenity-convert…
Thank you for your wishes! It’s been a super anxious time for me.
Yeah I think I’ve come to the conclusion I probably won’t get a capsule at this rate, I mean they’re only used for 6 months anyways. Probably better to invest in a convertible car seat that will last for a couple of years instead.
Thanks for the link! I’ll be sure to test it out!
@CassieRaye: Not sure where you are but in QLD you can hire a capsule from the ambulance service. They install them too. Means you don't have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for something you use for 6 -12 months. Also if you think you may have more kids then it is not a bad investment to buy a good one. I have 3 kids and the capsule we had did all 3 fine (as well as my sisters 3) its expired now (and I would never sell it to anyone) but we got excellent use out of it.
Good luck with the Bub, it is stressful and exhausting time (but it is worth it).
Also careful what you say on here, the seller is obviously here too and could very well use what you say here against you if it does end up at the tribunal.
As mentioned all over this thread, please show the legislation which says that it's illegal to use the car seat after the "expiry" date. Without that legislation you really have no leg to stand on. Your only chance would be to prove that the seller knowingly deceived you, but you'd already admitted that there were factory stickers covering the date sticker, so the seller obviously didn't know it was there.
Installers are often biased (have a product to sell), and they are necessarily over-cautious (legal protection). When I went to get my borrowed car seat installed I found that the straps were dirty and needed cleaning. I was advised by the installer that I couldn't clean them as it could weaken them. These are 5cm wide straps which have a tensile strength of approximately 2 tonne, and they are only being used to hold in a 4-8kg baby!
$600 for a child capsule is ludicrous. Here's one from SCA for $189. Don't go hanging your hat where your hand can't reach - and then trying to sue the person who sold you the hat hook.
@CassieRaye: I can completely understand your feelings after purchasing this and finding out the seat has a 'used by' date - it's your child's safety after all, and it makes you nervous.
But what I don't understand is why you insist on blaming the seller? you purchased this ignorant of the idea the seats had a 'use by' date, but you can't seem to understand that the seller was likely equally as ignorant of it as well?
As has been highlighted many times, there is no legal requirement around this use by date. These things are primarily to drive sales, my pillow has a best before date now days.
We've discovered here that not all manufactures even have a used by date, so at best the date is a recommendation and if you choose to follow that recommendation it's completely understandable and i'd probably do the same thing.
The problem is you did not do your due diligence before buying a secondhand car seat, you were ignorant of the manufactures recommendations. Even if you assume the seller was aware it was past the date, it's still your responsibility to understand what you're buying and to make sure it meets your needs.
If being within the manufactures recommended date range was important to you, this should have been information you were looking at when making a choice.
Instead of realising you've made a mistake, you've taken the stance of blaming the seller to the degree of threatening to sue them? This is crazy.
Is this the parent you're going to be? If your son or daughter are playing in the park and hurt themselves are you going to sue the the park or are you going to tell your child that they need to be more careful next time?
@CassieRaye: I know $150 is a lot of money and you are creating a lot of unnecessary negative energy/stress for your yourself and your unborn child.
I would be pissed off too if someone sold me a product that I can't use but if it's been 6 months…I would just forget it and accept it as a very expensive lesson.
The $150 will help you to be more diligent and careful with your future purchases and since you are already an ozbargain member lol you are on the right track to savings for baby and etc items.
There are a lot of scum and villainy in Sydney (but this is not the case I believe) as I have got scam $120 psn cards by some Korean boy from Epping who sold me empty cards but when the cop asked me if I would want to prosecute him as I got his number, I just said Nah not worth it to destroy a dumb kid's life over $120.
Just move on…take good care of yourself and your future baby ^_^
you will be a happier person.
@luffyex2010: Let me repeat, since you haven't read any comments either…
The capsule is fine. It's 6yo. Any industry guidelines are to bin it after 10yrs, however there is no law about the time-frame.
@spackbace: @@ I just found out that I threw out 2 good working expensive car seats ><
nevermind going to have dinner now sigh…could have made some money it's too late…more than 5 years its too late lol
@spackbace: Use the age of the capsule as a general guide. Always thoroughly assess the condition of the capsule (cracks, damage etc) when buying second hand and favour this over anything else when deciding whether to buy or not. You don't know what's happened to it in the past, whether it's been dropped or in an accident, so all you have is it's current condition to base your decision on. It's definitely a risk, which is why some people refuse to by second hand capsules.
@luffyex2010: You should have taught that kid a lesson. Otherwise he’ll continue to scam people.
@luffyex2010: The thing is though, they sold the family a product that they can use. It's just that they are refusing to use it because a retail staff worker who wouldn't be across legislation thought that its against the law… when it isn't. There is no legislation/law governing the use of car seats beyond their use by date. It is simply a recommendation by the manufacturer who'd prefer people buy their new products rather than buy 2nd hand.
@luffyex2010: Thanks for your comments! I guess I’ve learnt for future reference not to trust everyone so willingly and to ask the right questions!
I appreciate your kind words and consideration for future baby! :)
@luffyex2010: This is the best response to an expecting mum and congratulation for your upcoming baby, Cassieraye!
EDIT: I am responding to this
" I know $150 is a lot of money and you are creating a lot of unnecessary negative energy/stress for your yourself and your unborn child.
I would be pissed off too if someone sold me a product that I can't use but if it's been 6 months…I would just forget it and accept it as a very expensive lesson.
The $150 will help you to be more diligent and careful with your future purchases and since you are already an ozbargain member lol you are on the right track to savings for baby and etc items.
There are a lot of scum and villainy in Sydney (but this is not the case I believe) as I have got scam $120 psn cards by some Korean boy from Epping who sold me empty cards but when the cop asked me if I would want to prosecute him as I got his number, I just said Nah not worth it to destroy a dumb kid's life over $120.
Just move on…take good care of yourself and your future baby ^_^
you will be a happier person."
@CassieRaye: Wasting everyone’s time here…
You didn’t do your homework and didn’t inspect the item when you purchased.
Court and a magistrates time wasted, the seller has to waste a day going to court, are you going to bring your baby into court to attempt to get $150 back?
It’s hardly fair to go back to the seller 6 months after the fact with guns blazing, when there is nothing actually wrong with the chair, except a sticker.
I don’t think you understand the term “taking ownership for your own mistakes”. Accusing the seller of deliberately “preying on parents” is a bit rich.
If $150 is a significant amount to you, I question your choice of having a baby. The $cost of raising a child to maturity is in the six-figure range.
That being said, if you really are struggling, and your story is real, and you believe your lawyer friend, then by all means, start a dispute. I would weigh up the chances of winning vs losing and the pros & cons from doubling down on your bad purchase.
Just be mindful that the stress from the mother during pregnancy will negatively affected growth in the baby, but given you are nearing the end, it may or may not have much or any impact.
http://theconversation.com/health-check-can-stress-during-pr…
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170529090530.h…
That's weird because we have maxi cosi seats and they have manufacturer date but not expiry dates. This is because their recommendation is 10 years from purchase, but if its not known you use the manufacture date.
See link below
https://helpmaxi.dorelaustralia.com.au/hc/en-us/articles/360…
Jesus just move on. It's $150. 7.5hrs at $20/hr. I think you'll waste more than 8 hours trying to get a refund.
What a waste of everybody's time.
I appreciate that $150 is a lot of money to you but you need to accept that you are not going to get your money back. You learned a valuable lesson (I hope) and need to move on.
https://www.ract.com.au/child-restraints-faq
Recommendation is not law, and if the RAC can't quote a legal reason, then nor car you.
Plus they mention 10yrs, your seat is 6yrs old…
https://pearceschildrestraints.com.au/pages/frequently-asked…
I'm really struggling to find any info or anyone saying about a 6yo seat/capsule.
I'm a parent of 2, and this capsule will only last you 6 months anyway. It's 6 years old, it's perfectly safe to use, and it'll be perfectly safe for the next person.
Your installer was/is an idiot. Go take it to another installer, I bet they don't have an issue with it
Hi I will be honest with you here too since you are telling your side of the story. I purchased the seat second hand myself. Inspected for two minutes and bought it on the spot as it's in good condition. I installed it myself and used it with my new born. I didn't know about the stickers or expiry date whatsoever. Had been careful with it and kept it in good condition with the intention to sell it as I had no issue with it at all.
Obviously now feeling uneasy six months after the sale that someone is accusing me of cheating them threatening me with legal action ( hence the post just to get a general view). I ignored you as most people have advised here and also I have bad experience reply to some people from ebay.
I really don't think the shop is giving you the correct advice as it make no sense for any police to pull people over to check their child seats.
I understand having kids is expensive and I buy second hand whenever I can. But I also understand the risk and trouble with buying second hand. As long as the item works as intended. I would never blame the seller for not disclosing every single details.
I hope you can get over this and all the best with the baby.
Never mind that if the date is on the bottom, the shop is expecting an officer to have you remove the seat on the side of the road to check. Absolutely ludicrous.
@tomsco: Lol babybunting are actually expecting police to remove your baby and then the car seat and then check it.
99% will stop at removing baby from car seat/capsule. They are authorized to inspect the belts and if baby is securely fastened.
I have found baby bunting to be generally good and have good sales which help parents.
@tomsco: Can you imagine what would happen if taking the seat out under stress caused you to drop the child, or if there was an accident where the driver and child were hit because they were standing on the side of the road?
@macrocephalic: I'd be more concerned with taking the seat out and dropping it.
If this is the case you would potentially need to buy a new seat.
@tomsco: Well say,one hand doughnut one hand checking best before date nearly impossible.😂😂😂
@CassieRaye:
Thats your job to ask the questions that are important to you, not the (private) sellers responsibility to tell you absolutely everything. I think you're still confused with business vs private selling responsibilities.
@CassieRaye: Please dont go buy a second hand car.
That could get very messy
@CassieRaye: You can only use capsules for a short time though - 6 months, or less if bubs is big!
@MessyG: Yeah I know that. I’m hoping to install it myself or have a friend install it and then donate it. I don’t feel too bad anymore considering it’s only used for 6 months at the most :)
@CassieRaye: gasp You're going to donate an expired car seat so that some other poor parent can endure the emotional heartbreak you're already going through??
@LlamaOfDoom: As someone previously mentioned you can donate it to the Fire Department for training purposes. Or I’ll advertise it with its used by date clearly stated so the parents can make an informed decision whether or not they want to use it. But again I wouldn’t sell it.
@CassieRaye: lol used items means used. Well it's your job check it befor buy. Best before use is recommended date not expiry date as my knowledge. also, I believe u will loose $60.00 time and extra stress. You can only win case when seller mislead you or gave you damage goods at time of transaction Or he said not outdated item. If he mention used means nothing can do. Ask your friend who is calling his self lawer. Also give name that friend in case, because I would not hire him.
Go to NRMA or RACQ to get the seat fitted.
https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/car-servicing/chi…
https://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/safety-on-the-road/…
Don't go to a store which sells baby seats…
The buyer's profile seems to suggest she is from Victoria, so RACV? https://www.racv.com.au/on-the-road/driving-maintenance/road…
=)
@zrmx: Hi there! I called RACV today and they said they are unable to install it due to the use by date. I’ll just have to get a friend to install it or install it myself.
Kidsafe also do them (at specific times and places).
Wow an actual buyer actually response.
Dayum! this website is awesome.
@ CassieRaye Congratulations on the baby. It is a daunting time and expensive as well. I hope you have a good support network as you will need it.
You can try kidsafe to install your purchased item. They also rent a capsule, car seat, but you need to call in advance or book online.
https://www.kidsafeqld.com.au/
With summer coming it can get very hot in car so be sure aircon works and you don't leave baby inside even if just for a bit :)
Schedule an appointment for installation and then if they don't install you can rent one of theirs.
Do a bit of calculation and see if you need a carseat just now or if you can postpone it for a bit. Eg taking public transport-buses. A good stroller is all you need. Join/browse a forum like mums and bubs or parenting etc and see what other people do.
@ H-limelight and new mom would you consider going halves as in refund half the ammount, its an easy solution to the quandary where it appears an honest mistake has been made by both parties.
Edited for formatting
Totally unnecessary! The capsule is 6yo, majority of recommendations from the industry are a 10yo lifespan, though there's no legal reason to do so.
Still 4yrs life left for a capsule which is only used for the first 6m-1yr of baby's life.
@spackbace: My understanding was it has expired, if not I don't understand what the issue is and why would baby bunting not install it.
Just go to Kidsafe in herston, its right near the hospital.
Thank you for your reply! I’m probably going to have a friend install the car seat so at least I can use it for a while.
I really appreciate your comments and best wishes.
No.
I’ll give you $100 so you can put it towards another chair if this really worries you, so you can instead focus your efforts on your new kid and leave the seller be.
It’s not worth the stress on you, your kid or the seller to go through the courts. Trust me.
You will face more difficult situations, many which will be much worse than these, and you must build more resilience for the sake of your wellbeing and that of your child.
I’m in Melbourne so I can grab a gift card to the baby shop of your choosing if you want.
Then you can forget about all this and use your energy on the baby.
Thank you for the offer, but this isn’t your burden. I really appreciate the offer though, it’s very heartfelt. I’ve decided to just use the seat and then donate it to someone who needs it or the fire department as I wouldn’t feel right selling it.
Thank you for your responds and offer though.
@CassieRaye: I think you'd be fine to sell it if you just disclose that it's got a Do Not Use on it - if it's in great condition I think what you paid for it would be fine. If I had another kid I wouldn't bat an eyelid (first one I would have flipped out).
@CassieRaye.. seriously, you trying to get refund back and going the legal path is only going to cause you stress and trouble. Not only that, the implications will be felt by your bub and your partner. You will lose out on enjoying these moments of birth by having it muddled with something that only cost $150
You have to see that its an honest mistake. Both by you and the seller. Nobody is trying to scam anybody here. You are dealing with a secondhand item, with an amateur seller. These kind of things are bound to happen. If you can't accept this, buy brand new from retailers.
Every secondhand item purchase, the due diligence is always on the buyer to ensure its up to their expectations before completing the purchase. Much like buying a second hand car from private seller. There's no return, no warranty.. this is not a retail shop. I also have strong feeling you are not going to win the legal battle. Because common sense prevails.
But more importantly, if you can't let things as small as this go, I would warn you that there's going to be bigger problems down the road once the baby arrive that is going to drag you down more.. unless you start learning to let go. Every parents know that you just can't have everything under your control!! Seriously.. sh*t happens
At the end of the day, even if (by the slightest chance) you win the legal battle, you are still going to lose out because of the time and stress it cause you. So really, ask yourself again.. is this really worth all the effort??
PS: I have two kids and a bunch of secondhand car seats. I never check the use by date, I didn't even know it has one! But I doubt many parents do either. I'm also guessing there's thousands of cars riding on the road with out of dates car seats. But its not food, its not just gonna fail immediately. It will also most likely won't fail while your kids are using it either. I recommend keeping it as a backup spare as it may still come in handy. Or sell it for dirt cheap, there are people who wouldn't mind using it or may even take it apart for parts.
My advice, if $150 is a lot to you, I think you should probably quit ozbargain now..
@digitalbargain: Sorry that not everyone has your view regarding money. It seems like you come from a place of privlige when many others don’t. If $150 is play money to you why are you on ozbargain? Why do you need special deals? Just pay asking price.
@CassieRaye: If money is tight, don't buy a capsule, as they are stupid and pointless. Get one that goes from zero to 4 at least. Also if you think $150 is expensive, you are going to get quite a surprise raising a kid, they are damn expensive.
@CassieRaye: Ehh.. my joke clearly fell flat.. (eneloop owners may understand)
You have much to learn about how ozbargain works
Yes, I'd probably be better off paying 'full price' for things I actually need..
@CassieRaye: Cause we have time and it's a game XD
'Cassie Raye' is such a cool name! Sorta like 'Casino Royale'. Just thought I'd share that thought.
Haha! Thank you! I like it as well, pretty happy with my mum’s choice :)
I'm assuming you're new to Ozbargain.
I can tell you one thing.
Welcome to the community and you will save more than $150 in the long run.
Whilst you’d save more than a hypothetical $150 in the long run, you also will be spending more than what you’d typically would… snapping up bargains for the fear of missing out.
Hi Cassie, Welcome to OzBargain and congratulations on your pregnancy!
At 19, I'm going to assume this is your first baby. The first 3 months are the toughest, with the baby waking up several times per night for feeds and nappy changes. The last thing you want is any extra stress right now, I really think you should drop the idea of civil litigation. Let it go, move on and focus on giving birth and raising your infant :)
As for car seats, most councils will let you rent one for the first 6 months for like $80 + professional installation. Once the baby is about to out-grow it, you can just buy one for like $150 from target, and have the same people install it while they're collecting the rental.
Hopefully OzBargain can help you save money on all the new baby-related expenses.
P.S. Woolworths and/or Coles home deliveries for groceries are a God send for getting supplies of Nappies, food, formula, etc.
P.P.S. How did you find this thread? Did the OP actually link you here?
Thank you so much for your advice! You’re right, it’s my first pregnancy and pretty unexpected so I was trying to be super organised and I was probably too impulsive.
I’m hoping to get some good bargains on here haha
No he didn’t link me! I’m a long time lurker and I stumbled across the post and obviously knew it was about me haha
" I am the buyer. Firstly I just want to clarify that yes, I take ownership of my own mistakes"
Haha contradiction of the year in the first sentence
How can people blurt such rubbish out
thats a yikes. did you sue the crap out of them. OMEGALUL.