PayPal and Auspost Letting down Sellers

JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 17:31

Sold a phone on ebay a few months ago. Auspost had tracking not show new info for a good two weeks in transit and buyer filed a dispute for not receiving the item which was fair enough. Ebay ended up paying out the buyer only a few days after dispute was opened even after the tracking clearly updated showing it was on for delivery tomorrow. So I was left out of pocket but the buyer kindly returned the funds.

Three months later the same buyer filed a dispute for said item stating that it was not received. PayPal pretty much immediately took my money and gave it back to the buyer despite myself offering clear proof that the buyer had received the item. Filed an appeal claim and that was also ignored with no explanation just an automated message. Managed to get my money back again after buyer apologised and mentioned that they had filed a dispute in error after seeing the same transaction twice.

Anyway, I finally have my money after having it taken twice and only getting it back at the honesty of the buyer. Both ebay and PayPal pretty much immediately refunded the buyer after a dispute was opened even though I had evidence of posting it and then item being received.

Bit of a rant but I'm sure other Aussie ebay sellers would have similar experiences with the big three - auspost, ebay and PayPal screwing over sellers. Keen to hear other people's experiences.

General Discussion

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Comments

  • singingwolf on 15/06/2019 - 18:18
    -2

    Yes

    • Flinchy on 16/06/2019 - 16:36

      Absolutely correct

  • thatonethere on 15/06/2019 - 18:20

    Probably have to make a complaint about Paypal to these guys. Often they cave if you have good evidence and refund you as a good will guesture https://www.fos.org.au/

  • Quantumcat on 15/06/2019 - 18:24

    This is well known. Don't sell items you can't afford to lose on ebay. Save that for gumtree or Facebook and take cash.

    • JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 18:38

      Taking cash quite obviously limits your potentially buyers dramatically. People sell on EBay for a reason.

      • Quantumcat on 15/06/2019 - 18:40
        +2

        Phones are very sellable and there's no need to go to ebay to find a buyer. The larger market is only important if you're selling something weird or collectable where there's fewer people who want it. And then you have to weigh up if it is worth the risk of losing your item.

        • JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 18:43

          Had the item on gumtree and Facebook for a while before I put it on ebay. Would be because it was cracked and home button didn't work. You can sell broken phones at much higher prices on EBay than locally. Additionally you don't have to deal with time wasters who do no shows or rock up with less cash than they offered because they think they can get something cheaper which I've had happen alot.

          • Quantumcat on 15/06/2019 - 19:12

            @JD9151: That's true. You got very lucky that you had an honest buyer.

        • Diji1 on 15/06/2019 - 21:22

          The larger market is only important if you're selling something weird or collectable

          I think eBay has a larger number of naive buyers though.

          As an Ozbarger, if you're prepared to wait you can often sell things close to what you paid for them or occasionally even make a small profit since you paid a good price to start with.

  • ibuy on 15/06/2019 - 18:33
    +3

    If you’re in any doubt about a buyer you can require the buyer to pay for signature on delivery. This forces the buyer to sign for the goods before it is handed over to them. That way they can’t say they did not receive it. For certain countries and buyers I have that as a postage requirement.

    For example with zero feedback buyers or less than 10 I make signature on delivery a requirement. Also where goods are more than $100 I require signature. You may want to make it $50 because that’s the maximum Australia post will pay if an item goes missing.

    Depending on the delivery timeframe you can also contact Australia post to put a trace on the item. They will also then compensate you if they cannot find it.

    • JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 18:40

      I do signature on big items usually but should do it more often. I can't understand how pathetic Auspost can be sometimes. Even though the tracking showed delivery and I had evidence the buyer received the item, PayPal still sided with the buyer. It's like they understand that it's more profitable to side with buyers.

      • MeesusEff on 15/06/2019 - 19:09

        That sounds more like a Paypal issue than an Auspost issue though? (apart from the fact they took 2 weeks to update tracking)

        • JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 19:25

          Auspost took a month to deliver the item. Tracking didn't show because it was sitting somewhere not doing anything for two weeks.

      • ibuy on 15/06/2019 - 22:43

        @JD6750 Another way of protecting yourself is to also mark the package “DO NOT SAFE DROP” in large red capital letters. The reason for this is that if you use regular post and the item doesn’t fit into a post box then they can just leave it anywhere. If you mark it with the above they have to take it to a post office and the buyer has to pick it up from there.

        I once had one of my packages left under a flight of stairs at a buyer’s house and it took them a week to find it.

        I also monitor delivery of my sales. For example I sent an item to the States and it’s been just on two weeks now. It’s been bouncing around the US postal system so I have let the buyer know that the item has been sent and it’s in the States but the delivery time is out of my control due to some issue at the USPS end.

    • Quantumcat on 15/06/2019 - 18:42
      1. This doesn't prevent a item not as described claim
      2. AusPost will only compensate you the delivery cost with no insurance bought, and even if you buy insurance they'll fight you tooth and nail to avoid paying
      • ibuy on 15/06/2019 - 22:40

        The issue posted by the OP was item not received.

        I have received compensation from Australia post when an item went missing but the compensation was only up to $50. This was with no insurance and I only needed to provide a receipt and show details of the tracking.

        Item not as described - there are ways of tackling this too but depends on the circumstances.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/06/2019 - 06:21
      +1

      It doesn't happen often but we've had people sign for goods and then deny it.
      Signature doesn't mean anything other than extra cost.

  • ihbh on 15/06/2019 - 19:36

    Don't push your luck. Empty your Pay Pal account now.

  • elgrande on 15/06/2019 - 19:40

    I could not agree more. Had a similiar experience with paypal. As an ebay seller you are pretty much just relying on the buyers being honest, otherwise its very ebay to screw the seller.

    Paypal have way too much control for my liking. Imagine if a bank had this much control over your money.

    The worst part is that it is mandatory to offer paypal if you sell on ebay.

    • JD9151 on 15/06/2019 - 19:53

      Yep I thought this wasn't just restricted to me. If you send something as a letter, you're completely at mercy of the buyer and there's no point using parcel post for small items as the starting price of $8 for 500g is ridiculous.

      • ibuy on 15/06/2019 - 22:51

        You need to pick what you sell on eBay carefully. Small items of small value are not worth the effort. It is likely every man and his dog is selling the same item as you so the competition and effort is wasting your time. If you have lots of these items you should bundle them into a single listing so you can get rid of it all at once. That way you can ship it as a trackable parcel and the parcel rate is justified.

        Otherwise what some sellers work on is that for every say 100 sales there may be 5 fraud type sales so you just accept it and move on.

        The other option is to list it on gumtree where there is next to no recourse for buyers. So you do your bit and a buyer receives it as it arrives.

  • burningrage on 15/06/2019 - 20:28
    +1

    When would we ever have the Royal Commission into Australia Post?

    Betcha there would be more horror stories than the banking or aged care royal commission.

  • FireRunner on 15/06/2019 - 21:24

    I had a a dispute with a buyer for an item I sold brand new 3 months after the sale.
    They returned the item which they had damaged. PayPal just gave the buyer the money back.
    I appealed the case stating the buyer had damaged the item. They set unreasonable requirements and deadlines for them to consider the case.
    I opened a case with AFCA and in the end, were able to get PayPal to refund my money.
    It took weeks to sort.

  • Ocker on 16/06/2019 - 08:27

    PayPal offer Seller Protection. If an item is sent with tracking and the tracking shows the item as being delivered to the correct address then they will refund the seller for any claim of non-receipt.

    • JD9151 on 16/06/2019 - 10:11

      They didn't on this occasion unfortunately because the tracking showed still as in progress when they handed money over. Second time around Paypal wouldn't accept the tracking because it was dated back to before when the purchase was made.

  • boccos on 16/06/2019 - 08:52

    AustPost having a bad run at the moment? Took them 5 days to deliver a package about 5 kilometers. No wonder Ebay Sellers are getting nervous. On the other hand FastWays Service is spectacular at the moment.

    • barcer on 16/06/2019 - 10:59
      +2

      Fastway service largely depends on your local driver. Where I work the local driver is excellent; where I live, not so much.

  • AppleLime on 16/06/2019 - 10:30

    I have twice my items were delivered to the wrong address by Austpost and the items were marked as delivered. My neighbours have to deliver to me!

  • [Deactivated] on 16/06/2019 - 11:28

    Recently, I've had at least 3 items (separate ebay orders) go astray - Aus Post tracking showing as delivered (left in a safe place - although this was never requested by me - so no signature).

    The first time it happened, I spent some time liasing with the seller/Aus Post/ebay trying to track it down. On the last 2 occasions, I escalated with ebay in the first instance and they sorted it out.

  • Ozpit on 16/06/2019 - 13:53

    Last thing I sold on eBay, it took a month for the 3kg parcel post to go from Melb to a small town 150km south of Perth. It was amazing watching the tracking as the parcel went to Perth, then back to Melb, where it sat for awhile, and then to Adelaide where it sat at a ‘processing’ centre for more than a week.

    It was not as though the address wasn’t clearly printed. It was. I contacted the buyer a few times, assuring him it was definitely posted, and even sent a photo of the addressed parcel with the AP receipt. I eventually lodged an online complaint (what an ordeal that was - don’t even try speaking to someone at customer service), and the parcel was delivered soon after.

    I’m sure this was a rare hiccup on their part, as I generally find AP to be pretty reliable and deliver on time, although like many others, find that their couriers sometimes don’t attempt a delivery and just drop the “sorry you weren’t at home when we attempted to deliver your parcel; please collect from your nearest post office” card in my letter box.

    Whatever the case, the difficulty contacting customer service to make a complaint needs a BIG shakeup. They love sending you a feedback email request after a delivery, but give you almost zero scope to express any details of a negative experience. I guess it’s just a marketing tool to make you think they take your feedback seriously and that it’s valued.

    • JD9151 on 16/06/2019 - 14:14

      Support is ridiculous. I'm seeing this alot that more and more companies make it much more difficult to just send an email to a company for support. With Auspost, you need to sign up to a Mypost account just to sort out a delivery issue.

  • HeWhoKnows on 16/06/2019 - 17:16

    PayPal have absolutely no concerns for the sellers even though its the seller that pays the fee.

    This has to change!

  • AaronR on 17/06/2019 - 10:49

    I buy and sell on eBay more than most. My advice would be:

    • Ensure you photograph every package with a clear address and tracking number prior to sending if you use Australia Post in store. Not really required if you’re booking online and the address is listed on the consignment. I’ve used this multiple times to prove not only that the tracking shows something arrived, but was definitely sent to the correct address.
    • Pay for signature on delivery
    • Don’t use Australia Post if you can avoid it

    I use Sendle to ship most my items and while I’ve had a few issues they’ve been quite helpful in sorting it out. To be fair, Australia Post have also been helpful when I had to contact them over missing packages. I just prefer the ease of Sendle’s booking process.

    eBay and PayPal have also been helpful provided I have followed the rules of seller protection. I had one instance where I had to fight a little with PayPal but in the end I got my money back.

    Play by the rules and persist as necessary. You will be fine.

    • JD9151 on 17/06/2019 - 11:08

      I guess usually you get your money back in a dispute. Just hate how they can just hold your funds for so long after a sale. They have so much control over your balance.

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