Animal Welfare Prior to Slaughter and The Process of Slaughter

paraneoplastic on 30/06/2019 - 03:49
Last edited 01/07/2019 - 08:54 by 1 other user

I just finished a long shift at the ED and got home to relax for a bit before sleeping, i checked facebook and i have a message from a friend with this link:

WARNING: Viewer discretion advised, not for the faint-hearted, the video shows calves being slaughtered via captive bolt and beheading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXhaptL5u3E&list=PLtc3iQTP5E…

I'm an omnivore and will eat beef and lamb (stopped eating veal fews ago after discovering what it was)

I just want peoples opinions on the whole 'humane' slaughter methods, as medically speaking there is no way for a human to know whether a captive bolt provides sufficient analgesia and anaesthesia to an animal before their major vessels are dissected. When i saw the first calve being killed, i really found that distressing, because the 'person' who was using the stunning device obviously missed as the poor thing regained consciousness whilst being beheaded….

After seeing something like this, i don't think i will eat beef or lamb for a while, i also had a relative dissociation between what i was eating and the animals welfare, i equated an animals cognition to the suffering it could feel, but in this video you can see after the first calf dies, another one runs towards it to investigate what just occurred.. Really heart breaking stuff…

It'd be awesome to get a farmers input, i'd like to know whether it's viable to sedate animals prior to captive bolt (i.e. via intramuscular benzo)

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 30/06/2019 - 05:27
    +6

    Steak is delicious.

    My thought process doesn't go much further than that.

    • Heracles26 on 30/06/2019 - 08:14
      -7

      Your tastebuds are more important than an animal's life? How do you justify that?

      • o53djz7qTPY4der on 30/06/2019 - 08:30
        +41

        With an ample sprinkle of salt and pepper and a nice sear on the outside.

      • smartazz104 on 30/06/2019 - 17:35
        +8

        We're top of the food chain.

      • Blargman2001 on 30/06/2019 - 21:36
        +3

        Why do they have to justify it? Because it goes against the values you are trying to impose on them? Who made you the food police?

  • payton on 30/06/2019 - 07:07
    +3

    Defriend them and move on

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 30/06/2019 - 16:06
      -1

      And this thread is proof of the old question: “how do you spot a vegetarian or vegan?”

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 07:17
    +4

    It is easy to tell.

    a) Yummy steak.
    Animal lived their best life filled with green pastures, music, joy and love. They didn't see their death coming.

    or

    b) Tough, flavourless steak.
    Animal was terrorised by a psycho with a hammer.

    https://www.grass-fed-solutions.com/cattle-stress-science.ht…

  • EightImmortals on 30/06/2019 - 07:29
    +1

    It would depend on where the beast was butchered. And by whom. And IIUC abattoirs with Halal certification do things a little 'differently' (from what people have told me as opposed to what the government PR dept says. )

    Either way I prefer to buy meat from the local butcher where I know that most of the animals at least are not raised in a feedlot and pumped full of antibiotics and hormones etc. Apparanlty most meat is still sold through supermarkets so I guess that tells us most people put price over ethical concerns.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 09:27
      +1

      How can you so sure the meat from a local butcher is more humanely treated?

      I don't think local butchers know much about where the carcus they get comes from, and they don't usually slaughter the animals them selves, they buy the carcass from an abattoir.

      • EightImmortals on 30/06/2019 - 09:47
        +2

        The one I go to does farm and slaughter their own beef at least. Pretty sure they buy their other meats in that are labelled as being hormone and antibiotic free, free range etc. So yes I guess we can't be 100% certain about EVERYTHING but I happy to make my choices given whatever information I have to hand. If the facts change then I might change my mind too. :)

        • afoveht on 30/06/2019 - 12:40
          -1

          In other news:

          If you go to confession and pay a fine your sins will be forgiven.

          Kill someone in a foreign country with government-issued weapons and it's no longer murder.

          If the butcher or RSPCA or religious regulator say it's OK, then it's OK.

          • EightImmortals on 30/06/2019 - 13:40
            +4

            @afoveht: You are assuming I am committing a sin (maybe in your religion I am?) my eating meat and therefore need forgiveness. I do not need your approval nor your forgiveness.

            (Edit: The last time you were hating on me was for saving a calf and hand-rearing it. I guess there's no pleasing some people. The calf is doing fine BTW)

            • afoveht on 30/06/2019 - 13:59
              -3

              @EightImmortals:

              You are assuming I am committing a sin

              Long reach. I don't see anything as sinful because I don't recognize any divine laws. I do see things as douchebaggy though, including saving a calf only to kill her at a later date

              • EightImmortals on 30/06/2019 - 14:33

                @afoveht: So what's the difference between 'sinful' and 'douchbaggy'? Do you have kind of objective standard that you measure against or is it just your opinion?

                • afoveht on 30/06/2019 - 14:38

                  @EightImmortals:

                  Do you have kind of objective standard

                  Yes. Intentionally violating the fundamental interests of other perceptually aware beings for non-vital reasons is douchebaggy. (Rephrased: causing others unnecessary harm is douchebaggy.)

                  So what part of that do you disagree with?

          • whooah1979 on 30/06/2019 - 14:12

            @afoveht:

            If you go to confession and pay a fine your sins will be forgiven.

            There is no sin in killing animals to satisfy ones hunger as god gave animals to humans for food.

        • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:42

          The one I go to does farm and slaughter their own beef at least.

          More than likely not. Guys who slaughter cattle at farms (mobile butchers) are actually not that common and to book them costs good money (as you are paying for a per piece job, not a job lot, plus many charge travel costs- $1 per km). It MAY happen for a very small butcher, but pretty unlikely.
          Trying to organising it so cows are producing offspring on a consistent enough basis for you to supply your own shop could be difficult (meaning you would need 3 births every week).

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:37
      +1

      @EightImmortals

      Hate to break it to you but:

      1) pretty much all meat 99% is Halal compliant (it might not be certified, but it is compliant to the standards).
      The main difference is non stunning vs stunning which has nothing to do with the meat from the majors or 95% of butchers).

      2) All beef in Australia is grass feed and not via feed lot and is not pumped full of steroids, etc
      Feed lot is usually fed that way due to extreme temperatures outside (so UK uses feedlot during winter months - or the cattle would starve to death).
      Feed lot is usually more expensive, thats why its not done here.

      3) Nearly all meat is sourced through a few abattoirs. Even butches who own their own cattle (i.e they own a farm and really how may actually do this? it would be lucky to say 2%) use the same abattoirs.

      How do I know all this? I know a butcher with his own farm, who used to work for one of the majors.

      • BestofOZB on 30/06/2019 - 21:57
        +1

        "1) pretty much all meat 99% is Halal compliant (it might not be certified, but it is compliant to the standards).
        The main difference is non stunning vs stunning which has nothing to do with the meat from the majors or 95% of butchers)."

        Any more info or links on this? This is a huge claim!

      • Miss B on 30/06/2019 - 23:32
        +2

        http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/generalissues/hormo…

        ~40% of Australian cattle are given hormones, probably the same 40% kept in feedlots towards the end of their lives.

        https://futurebeef.com.au/knowledge-centre/feedlots/

        "Approximately 40% of Australia’s total beef supply and 80% of beef sold in major domestic supermarkets is sourced from the cattle feedlot sector."

        They do spend much of their lives eating grass, but the last ~10-15% of their lives they are kept in feedlots and fed grain.

  • geech on 30/06/2019 - 08:08
    +14

    This is exactly why I prefer hunting game animals. At least they lived a full life, and had a quick death. I still find it surprising how many people are against ethical hunting, yet will happily buy a packaged steak from Colesworths without thinking twice about what happened to the animal.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 09:31
      +11

      Not all of us are surrounded by mountains full of introduced pests.

      If I were to live of my hunt, I'd be eating rabbit most of the time.

      Also, I've seen real pieces of work take hero shots. The animals don't die quick…

      Ps. just in case you think I'm a vego, I'm a fellow hunter. Definitely not vego.

    • TheBilly on 30/06/2019 - 11:14

      I wish I could do that. Living in Shitney and only having access to public land for hunting. It is a big time committment with smaller return. I.e. many trips to bag 1 deer etc.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 13:09
        +1

        It's not always about shooting the animals. Sometimes, it is nice just to go camping and only take a shot if it is a big buck.

        …also, nice to collect some very fine fallen trees. Red gum firewood is going for $250/cbm.

    • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 14:36
      +2

      Agreed, also I have never once ran into a greeny or vegan while out hunting for a freezer filler.
      Not to mention the quality of meat.

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:46
      +1

      We breed animals to eat. That means we have to feed them, secure them (make sure they are safe), look after them and hopefully its in regulated industry which hands out fines to those who break the regulations/laws.

      Shooting a duck and then watching it drown seems somehow different to that…..

      Also ignores the massive over hunting (or fishing) that people (for want of a better word) do that destroy species.

    • WhoGiveAShxt on 30/06/2019 - 19:33
      +1

      Because most of people outside the hunting community are not necessarity understand what is ethcial hunting means. even after you explain to them.

      Most of people who have modern city lifestlye do not even know how a chicken looks like in real life. For them, maybe I should say most of us, meat is just some products you could buy from stores with price tabs on it.

      Also, hunting also is a hard game to play, even with a rifle. You want to have a quick and clean kill for the animal.

  • Heracles26 on 30/06/2019 - 08:13
    +4

    Is there a humane way to kill any sentient creature who does not want to be killed? (In b4 "How do you know they don't want to be killed?" …..twaddle)

    • Some Human on 30/06/2019 - 11:06
      +7

      Kill fast, cook slooooow.

    • geech on 30/06/2019 - 11:38

      I guess it’s all relative. The majority of animals probably don’t want to die - but I choose to eat meat, so it becomes a question of what I see is the most humane way to do that. If it were me being killed, I’d rather have lived my life free and receive a quick and unexpected death than to have been raised in a paddock and marched off in a group to be slaughtered.

      I’m not saying that I don’t eat meat from an animal raised to be eaten, but if given the choice I’ll always take meat from a wild animal.

  • crashloaded on 30/06/2019 - 08:20
    +15

    I think it's a good idea if everyone reduced meat intake. This would create an effect of less stock bred purely for slaughter and make things more manageable and humane.

    However, like everything, money and greed take over and mass production makes bank accounts larger, people lose ethics and care more about the account balance.

    It's a tough problem to tackle. I eat meat in a lot of meals but try to minimize portions and stretch my meat purchases over multiple meals.

  • Ocker on 30/06/2019 - 08:31
    +12

    Sign seen in a butcher's shop window -

    To all Vegans - I jam selling the cow that has been eating your food.

  • barbarella on 30/06/2019 - 08:59
    +3

    I don't eat animals

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:48
      +1

      :0

      O M G…

      All praise you, whoever you are ???

    • DarwinBoy on 30/06/2019 - 19:54
      +1

      I read once about all the small animals that are killed providing food for vegetarians.
      You cant win either way…

  • wordplay on 30/06/2019 - 10:51
    +3

    I don't think we can just start introducing benzodiazepines into the food chain. there would be residues in the product.

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:49
      +1

      I once gave a cow a pastry treat and it ate the plastic wrapper.

      I feel I have contaminated the supply chain. :/

  • AustriaBargain on 30/06/2019 - 11:02
    +3

    We'll grow prime meat eventually and animal meat will be outlawed. Until then try not to overthink it.

  • TheBilly on 30/06/2019 - 11:17
    +12

    I love meat. But I choose to consume more veg because I do nice easy smooth poops when doing so. Its like a chocolate soft serve straight out of my butt.

    • payton on 30/06/2019 - 12:25

      and there's no trace of it on paper, you're like a slip and slide, large intestines, you've done well!
      LI: no, thank you

    • Illian on 30/06/2019 - 13:04

      Every poop is quick and easy when doing it in the anatomically correct position though.

  • paraneoplastic on 30/06/2019 - 12:15
    +3

    did anyone watch the video?

    • Some Human on 30/06/2019 - 12:43
      +15

      Yes, but I already knew my meat came from slaughtered animals, rather than just magically appearing on my plate.

    • BestofOZB on 30/06/2019 - 22:01
      +1

      Aside from having animals watching other animals die, I really didn't see much suffering in that video, the guys cut their throat pretty quick and they died immediately. We knew how animals are being slaughtered anyways.

    • Miss B on 01/07/2019 - 00:16

      I tried to watch Dominion, I learnt my lesson. No, I won't even try to watch the video.

      • Some Human on 01/07/2019 - 00:35
        +1

        Have Benny Hill music playing while you watch it.
        You'll thank me later.

        • Miss B on 01/07/2019 - 00:49

          If that would make a difference I wouldn't have any issues watching it in the first place.

  • eldudebrothers on 30/06/2019 - 12:51
    +6

    I am a doctor and became vegan after seeing the brutality towards animals in slaughterhouses. Currently there is a lot of animosity towards plant based lifestyles because it threatens the current status quo. More and more doctors are going vegan due to our empathetic nature and difficulty witnessing other living beings suffer immensely for arguably little benefit. Ethics aside, the livestock industry is detrimental to our health and planet but the future is in grown meat and plant based alternatives. I love a steak more then anyone else but I can't lie to myself. Nevertheless, I never advise my friends or patients to go vegan as I can't stand highly preachy vegans as they do more harm by being massive twats. Everyone should be left alone to do what they want within the law and morality in itself is subjective, I am just pointing out why I personally went vegan.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 13:13

      Currently there is a lot of animosity towards plant based lifestyles because it threatens the current status quo.

      There isn't "a lot" of "animosity". Apart from the extreme exceptions in the US of idiots vandalizing Tesla superchargers, generally, no one has any organized animosity to vegos or climate buddies.

      However, vegos have organized rallies and even target non vegos. I'm sure I don't have to provide links to recent intrusion into restaurants or the map with meat farmer's personal information.

      • eldudebrothers on 30/06/2019 - 20:39
        +2

        Just look at this thread….

        • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2019 - 22:37

          Yes, this thread about how bad it is to eat meat.

          Any threads started on why veganism is bad?

          One cannot go around advocating their cause and then claim victim status because there is negativity.

    • paraneoplastic on 30/06/2019 - 15:20

      Completely agree, i cannot help but empathize.

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:54

      Nevertheless, I never advise my friends or patients to go vegan

      Nor should you. Your advice to patients carries not just ethical obligations, but legal ones as well.

    • Some Human on 30/06/2019 - 17:28
      +4

      Currently there is a lot of animosity towards plant based lifestyles because it threatens the current status quo

      No, people just don't like religious cults or snowflakes that don't understand the foodchain.

      • KBZ on 30/06/2019 - 18:34
        +2

        Exactly, just to add on people don't like being told what to eat or not too.

    • MessyG on 30/06/2019 - 21:17
      +6

      I went vegan for a year. And then I had kids. The cognitive load was too great and really I think veganism is a diet of privilege. To do it well requires a lot of time and money and I don't think it's realistic to expect people to do it anyway (so like you, I would never preach it in spite of how beneficial it is). Vegetarianism or at least a smaller footprint of meat consumption is the way forward at this stage. I eat meat now, in small amounts and I've seen that calf being killed video - if not that one then the one John Safran had banned in the nineties when he snuck into an abbattoir. Whether we like it or not there is a natural order to things and we are part of a food chain. I don't think humanely treated animals should be priced higher for consumption that ones that aren't, it should be the standard, not an opportunity for supermarkets to make more money.

      • Bargain Hunter 007 on 01/07/2019 - 19:46
        +1

        Please stop spreading the myth that veganism is a diet of privilege.

        Eating meat is a diet of privilege. The poorest places in the world are far more vegan than the west.

        Vegetables, legumes, grains.

        I appreciate you are talking anecdotally and I don't know your circumstances, but it's misinformation and simply not accurate for the majority of people.

      • littleDealFish on 04/07/2019 - 22:05

        There is nothing 'natural' to factory farming…

    • nomoneynoproblems on 30/06/2019 - 21:56

      Sorry Doc, I respect what you do but disagree. The animosity is towards the people that try to shove it down everyone's throat. My partner has been a vegetarian for most of her life, I understand the choices behind it but not everyone's life style is the same.

  • Illian on 30/06/2019 - 13:41

    What animal did you think veal was lol, horse?. I don't see why we can't use some kind of high powered guillotine to instantly behead them before they even know what's happening and cut out the middle step.

    Vegans are the most hateful people this side of the religious. They hate animals so much they refuse to use anything the beautiful creatures provide us, because apparently it isn't good enough for them. Give them some meat, they'll spit it out, give them some cheese, they'll throw it in the trash, give them some fine leather, they'll throw it back in your face. Their vile distaste toward animals knows no bounds. That doesn't even compare to the deep throbbing abhorrence they have for plants, which they don't even consider to be living. Plants are just objects to them, they delight in torturing them, literally pulling off still-living limbs and compiling them into vast piles of carcasses just to devour. They hate them so much they refuse to eat anything else to the detriment of their own health. I imagine those sick bastards love cutting trees for fun, just to watch them bleed their sap blood. You can always see the crazy in their eyes up close.

    In all seriousness, fact is, plants are just as alive as anything else, plenty of them bleed just like anything else, and just because we don't understand them the way we do animals doesn't make it any better, we're all part of the same life which has evolved on this rock. All vegans are hypocrites, if they truly cared they would only consume man-made and artificial food/drink.

    • Other on 30/06/2019 - 15:55
      +6

      What animal did you think veal was lol

      I always thought sausages came from sausage dogs - I was shocked to learn the truth!

    • afoveht on 30/06/2019 - 16:25
      +1

      Plants are just objects to them

      Bingo.

    • eldudebrothers on 30/06/2019 - 20:47
      +1

      There is enough mental gymnastics in this post to win gold in the Olympics.

    • Some Human on 01/07/2019 - 00:36

      What animal did you think veal was lol, horse?.

      OP obviously never watched Southpark

  • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 14:00
    +21

    I run a small farm, hunt a lot too, 90% of our meat I harvest myself.
    I can't tell you the captive bolt method, or any other line process is 100% humane, however I can say that it is a hell of a lot more humane than the natural alternative, animals in the wild don't die in their sleep curled up in warm woolen blankets, while pixies sing them lullabies the reality is most natural deaths, especially of larger animals is slow, painful and drawn out.

    Disease can take take months of pain to kill an animal.
    Predators often injure but don't kill. I've found stock with their faces torn apart, eyes and tongues eaten, while the animal is left to suffer and die over what could be several days.
    Injuries often lead to death, be it infection or the inability to feed themselves or defend from predators, this is never a quick process.

    • payton on 30/06/2019 - 14:11

      +1
      meanwhile vegans are too caught up in their own fantasy to actually realise this

      • afoveht on 30/06/2019 - 16:30
        +6

        Yes, let's breed animals that we've domesticated and made, through selection and manipulation, unable to survive without human intervention, then pat ourselves on the back for keeping them alive until we choose to shoot them.

        • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 16:59
          +12

          Because death is only subject to human intervention? Livestock may be domesticated and bred to need human intervention as you've pointed out, but the realities of nature doesn't follow that rule set, a lamb bred for meat, still has a longer, healthier life than the majority of wildlife, and that includes their inevitable death, that is no doubt quicker and less painful than any animal passing on in a natural setting of disease, predators, starvation and injury.

          So if your looking to protect animals from suffering, why don't you go protect our native marsupials from feral cats and foxes, or protest the urbanisation that is forcing kangaroos numbers into smaller and smaller areas of grazing.

          Some of us are in the country, we see death every day, we do everything in our power to maintain our ecosystems and protect our wildlife, we hunt pest species and control population numbers on species that are overpopulated and eating themselves out of home.
          We care for and adopt injured animals, we study conservation and put our lives into bettering our land. We eat meat, we use leather, we use as much of the animals we slaughter as possible, anything less would be wasting a life. We give homes to colonies of bees, we maintain land our natives can graze on, we are here actually doing something.

          Others sit in hipster cafes in the middle of smog filled cities, drinking coffee flown half way across the world, trying to tell us that we are the ones causing suffering…. but it's ok, they don't eat meat. Virtue signalling anyone?

        • Bargain Hunter 007 on 30/06/2019 - 17:58
          -3

          +1

          That is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard, the foodchain is also pretty good lol.

          You're not going out into the wild and killing animals that are having a tough time of things through disease, singing them lullabies while putting a captive bolt gun to their head.

          You are breeding billions of animals into existence to kill them.

          How can someone who literally makes their living off breeding animals to sell as commodities not realise those animals wouldn't have existed in the wild?

          • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 18:31
            +3

            @Bargain Hunter 007: So the argument is…
            They only exist to feed us, they are not a wild animal, so it's OK if they cease to exist? They wont suffer when they don't exist anyway.

            or is it…
            Wild animals may suffer more, but natural suffering is acceptable, we only wish to limit human influenced suffering? All those native marsupials that are endangered due to feral animals hunting them or destroying their homes, don't really count.

            You are breeding billions of animals into existence to kill them.

            As opposed to the billions of other animals that… also die. We need to accept that death is part of the natural cycle, we can choose to use the byproduct of death, and eat the animal, or clothe ourselves with it's hide, or we can hide in the dark and think all death is a product of human intervention.
            Let's also ignore that we also care for those animals, home them, feed them, medicate them, they get a pretty good life when compared to their wild animal counterparts. But I understand your point, we kill them in the end. They die, therefor they suffer, unlike their wild animal counterparts that die with no suffering.

            Although I've used lambs heavily in my examples, the majority of the animals I breed, to sell as commodities, do exist in the wild. Always have, and always will. You're off the mark if you think all our meat sources are domesticated animals. You're also off your mark if you think all animals bred to sell as commodities are bred for meat or sent to slaughter.

            You're not going out into the wild and killing animals that are having a tough time of things through disease, singing them lullabies while putting a captive bolt gun to their head.

            You're right, I always forget to sing them a lullaby, but I will happily admit that over the years, I have put down many wild animals that I have found injured or lame. It's part of living, we don't ignore the suffering of one group so we can push our agenda on another.

            • Bargain Hunter 007 on 01/07/2019 - 19:40

              @Ace Ventura:

              Wild animals may suffer more, but natural suffering is acceptable, we only wish to limit human influenced suffering?

              This one.. are you saying we shouldn't limit human influenced suffering? That sounds kind of messed up.

              All those native marsupials that are endangered due to feral animals hunting them or destroying their homes, don't really count.

              Why don't they count? We made a grave error by introducing these feral animals, once again it's a human problem not the poor animals who just happen to strive in this environment. Greater resources need to be spent on measures to reduce their numbers, if we spend the money on research we get results, we're a pretty smart bunch despite the rest of our flaws.

              But I understand your point, we kill them in the end. They die, therefor they suffer, unlike their wild animal counterparts that die with no suffering.

              Are you literally made from straw lol. At no point did I say any of that. I hope you stay clear of matches.

              As opposed to the billions of other animals that… also die. We need to accept that death is part of the natural cycle, we can choose to use the byproduct of death, and eat the animal, or clothe ourselves with it's hide, or we can hide in the dark and think all death is a product of human intervention.

              I don't consider masturbating a ball, inserting my arm into the anus of a cow, inserting a long metal prod into her cervix, waiting until she gives birth, killing her baby and drinking her milk and later killing her and eating her flesh and wearing her skin as fashion as particularly natural.

              If you want to use the skin of wild dead animals, go for it, I think it's a bit odd in this day and age, but if you want to kick it old school and animals don't suffer for it, I'm cool with that.

              It's pretty straight forward to have a very functional wardrobe devoid of animal parts.. I've been doing it for years. As time goes on and synthetic materials continue to improve in both function and sustainability this argument will go with it, but right now you can buy ethically sourced clothes for all conditions which don't rely on animal agriculture.

              The thing is, it's easy, cheap, and healthy to be vegan. If we can reduce suffering inflicted on animals (and people - more PTSD in slaughterhouses than our armed forces), then why wouldn't we?

              You're right, I always forget to sing them a lullaby, but I will happily admit that over the years, I have put down many wild animals that I have found injured or lame.

              I think that's very admirable, and I'm happy to hear you have done that, it's very upsetting to see an animal in pain.

    • jzdhgkd on 30/06/2019 - 15:40
      +1

      Thanks for that input, was interesting to read!

      I'm 100% a meat eater but I guess the other side of the debate might say that there'd be fewer suffering animals if we didn't breed them for slaughter in the first place.

      Unfortunately I think most people (including myself) find meat delicious and until the Impossible/Beyond Burgers are more widespread or we get lab-grown meat that tastes as good as the real thing + is affordable on a regular basis then not much will change in the meat industry.

      • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 16:07
        +2

        there'd be fewer suffering animals if we didn't breed them for slaughter in the first place.

        That's a pretty common argument, but I often wonder what the end game is, I mean if everyone stopped eating meat, sure the little lambs wouldn't be suffering in the slaughterhouse. But what do you think would happen with them? The animal would now have no value to me, nor anyone else, at least in a business sense. They have ongoing costs to maintain their relatively healthy and safe lifestyle in my paddocks, and with no return on those costs, my choices are, release the animal, which is highly illegal and would only result in their long drawn out deaths in the wild outside of an ecosystem they are not suitably adapted too, without medication the animal requires for a healthy life.
        or
        Put down the animal and use my land for something that may support my family.

        Now lets talk about suffering, my animals are fed, have adequate nutrition, have clean water, have amble amount of land with green pastures and shady spots to relax. They receive their sprays, vaccinations and drenches, are wormed, checked for louse, we prevent flystrike, sheer them, we care for their teeth and feet to prevent health issues. I'm sure there is more in our schedule, but lets start with that stuff, and compare it to trespassers who have been entering properties and "rescuing" these animals to prevent suffering. We can only assume if they are being rescued, they are moving onto a life that offers everything I've listed, and then some.

        • Bargain Hunter 007 on 30/06/2019 - 18:03
          +1

          … no one thinks people are going to stop eating animals overnight.

          As the demand drops, so will the supply.

        • littleDealFish on 04/07/2019 - 22:24

          I grew up on a farm and I think it's great that you care for your animals, but also, isn't that just a standard duty of care? If you own x animals in year 2019, then you have a duty of care to look after those x animals until they are no longer in your care..

          If suddenly demand dried up you'd release them? what a silly thing to say. I highly doubt it, you paid for that animal, so like any person with an investment you would eventually cut your losses and sell them at a low price and move on. As mentioned below, supply and demand.

    • paraneoplastic on 30/06/2019 - 15:40

      Good point

    • eldudebrothers on 30/06/2019 - 20:51

      Your logic: animal X will die slowly in the wild therefore its ok to kill animal Y in a slaughterhouse.

      • Ace Ventura on 30/06/2019 - 21:24
        +2

        and the opposing logic is: the animal is slaughtered for human consumption, it must be cruel, the animal must be suffering.

        which tends to tag along with the attitude vegans treat farmers with : You breed animals, that will one day be consumed, you must be mistreating these animals and they must be suffering.

        But lets look at my real logic, which was, suffering in life in not avoidable, nor is death.
        The fact that one side of the coin is subject to human intervention, does not make it worse than the natural selection side of the coin. Especially when the human intervention is designed to lower the level of suffering.

        • eldudebrothers on 01/07/2019 - 19:08

          the opposing logic: killing beings which have complex sensory abilities is wrong. Animals have complex sensory abilities. Hence killing animals is wrong.

          Also

          Is killing a sentient being wrong? Yes.
          Are the majority of animals considered livestock live awful lives? Yes
          Do we absolutely need meat to survive? No
          Is the livestock industry detrimental to the status quo of the planet? Yes
          Will people stop the consumption of animal products? No
          Is going vegan helpful in any way? Probably not.
          Is consuming meat immoral? Yes
          Is morality subjective? Yes
          Is eating meat culturally acceptable? Yes
          Will consuming meat in the future be culturally acceptable? Probably not
          Should you go vegan? Only if it fits your own morality.

        • littleDealFish on 04/07/2019 - 22:51

          Human intervention is from the start to finish.

          So while you may have the start down well (looking after the animals etc) factory farming, selective breeding (animals that can't support their own body weight), hormones, abattoirs, live export - are the less perfect examples of human interaction that is so far removed from nature you can't possibly argue for it.

          A pig strung up and assembly lined into a vat of boiling water (remove the skin) that is still alive because it isn't stunned correctly isn't the same as it being attacked and mauled by an animal in the wild which would be by a throat clamp. Hell pigs in close captivity maul each other, biting off their own tails due to frustration! (so we 'humanely' cut them off. Even then, close quarters, unhealthy environment.. flesh eating bacteria anyone?

          What gets me, is that humans with all our wild inventions can't properly stun? we could lower suffering but we don't because that = slower and less profitable.

  • peterw1 on 30/06/2019 - 15:37

    I miss eating the dolphin that used to be in the canned tuna I'd buy.

  • ih8un on 30/06/2019 - 16:05
    +1

    For thousands or years, animals were slaughtered for meat using a very simple method. Once the industrialisation of meat occurred, these method were no longer viable and were for the most part not scailable. Stunning before slaughter was not implemented for the sake of animal welfare, it was an industry push. Stunning before slaughter increases productivity ten fold.

  • Vote for Pedro on 30/06/2019 - 16:29
    +6

    I’m a meat eater. Love it. Do I think there’s a more humane way? Don’t know, hope so. Do I think it’s cruel? Yes. Do I bury my head in the sand and try not to think about it? Yes, absolutely.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 30/06/2019 - 16:30
    +1

    Why would you post this on Ozbargin?

    • paraneoplastic on 30/06/2019 - 16:35
      +2

      Good place for a wide array of opinions

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