Airtasker Handyman wanted more money

[Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:30
Last edited 07/08/2019 - 14:08 by 1 other user

Recently I advertised on Airtasker app for a handyman to do some work, involved drilling some hooks up for a picture ,
And putting a door handle on , just drilling it on with screws i provided,
About 15 minutes work i guess

I received a lot of bids ,and the one i chose i admit was the cheapest at $50 , however he lived nearby and could come immediately so I accepted the bid

A guy turns up scruffy looking ciggarette in mouth and i greeted him nicely and he came inside my house and i showed him the door handle i wanted putting on

Still smoking his cigarette in the house , He then says , the $50 he bidded ,he made a mistake and Airtasker take out 25% off that and and he then says can you give me a extra $50 in cash as i meant it to be $75

I stood there shocked not knowing what to say, then he goes on and says “I need it before i complete the job “

I said but I already paid Airtasker $50 you bidded right ?

He then says “ yeah buddy but you understand they take out 25% and i made a mistake bidding so can u give me extra cash ?

Now what would you say to him after this?

He was a pushy type of person a little bit n my face aggressive

Ok i admit it was my fault partly for being stingy and choosing the cheapest one but he was closer than everyone else.

Would you have gave into his demands and paid him extra cash ?

I know lol…cheaper for me to buy a drill

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Comments

  • Presence on 07/08/2019 - 13:37
    +79

    You didn't finish the story - what happened?

    • poboy on 07/08/2019 - 21:07
      +117

      The tradie is still there tapping his foot while the OP is glued to this thread, pressing F5 everytime a new cigarette is lit.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:38
    +5

    what's that about paying peanuts get monkeys lol

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:46
      +1

      Your right lol, be a tight wad it a lesson

      • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:47
        +21

        Do you think this doesn't happen on a $100 bid?

    • funnysht on 08/08/2019 - 22:27
      +7

      so what? then don't pick the job. asking for more money is just low.

    • leiiv on 09/08/2019 - 10:39
      +2

      In this case, you got a gorilla

  • skido on 07/08/2019 - 13:39
    +83

    You've already paid for the task, so he should complete it. If he made a mistake bidding, he could've contacted you prior before showing up. I would just tell him to either complete the task or leave (probably the latter given his unprofessionalism), and contact AirTasker for a full refund if necessary.

    Also, smoking cigarettes in someone's house? Talk about some basic manners lol

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:47
      +67

      I suspect this is how this person operates.

      Win the bid.

      Appear aggressive and criminal.

      Ask for more money in someone else's home.

      It's a winning strategy. The potential criminal and extortionist is not just privy to your residential address, he was invited in.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:51
        +12

        Yes I think so, and i looked at his reviews he seem to be new but i have a feeling he was banned from Airtasker before and maybe re-registered under another name

        • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 14:03
          +2

          It's going to happen a lot.

          Air Tasker is a private company and cannot address criminal actions as they're not linked to any judicial nor enforcement department.

          It's like Uber slipping under the liability radar for a long time, except this is even more poorly vetted since Uber tracks their driver's movement and the service has a metric.

          AirTasker is just a referral system and beyond that, they're hands off. It is essentially inviting a random person to your home and allowing them to take dangerous objects with them.

          There are times when it is inevitable to solicit a tradesman however, the degree of risk is different as the tradesman operating "independently" has significant capital investment in their business such as cost of advertising, licensing… There are exceptions like in any case but that's your mitigating factor.

        • ozbjunkie on 08/08/2019 - 16:22
          +8

          Time to get him banned again, complain to airtasker?

        • legendary-noob on 08/08/2019 - 19:17

          i would have paid only because i dont like confrontations like that
          but i think it sucks…
          if you have the guts, please tell him to leave
          he's probably underbidding to win jobs and preying on ppl like me who dont know how to say no
          we should stop this sort of nonsense…

          • macrocephalic on 08/08/2019 - 21:23
            +1

            @legendary-noob: I'd probably have paid - to get him out of the house, and then taken to Airtasker for a refund and to have him banned.

          • GregMonarch on 08/08/2019 - 22:05
            +1

            @legendary-noob:

            1. Pretend your phone rings… "Oh, no - auntie has had a heart attack? Which hospital is she in? Uh-huh, ok, I'll be there asap."

            2. Sorry, I'll have to get you to come back later. Here's $5 for fuel since you said you live close by.

            3. Obtain refund, being sure to leave feedback about appearance, smoking inside, attitude, LYING (if they allow that)!?

            4. Talk to neighbours you know are normal. Someone must know how to use a screwdriver.

            ;-p

            • RubenM on 19/08/2019 - 08:07

              @GregMonarch: Why would you do that? I'd have a two word response, first word starts with "F" and second word ends in "ff".

              • GregMonarch on 19/08/2019 - 22:40

                @RubenM: Because I'm coming at it from what seems to be the OP's personality… Low confrontation, makes him think he's coming back to do the job, isn't the OP's fault, nothing to whine about like it cost me fuel, etc.

                • RubenM on 20/08/2019 - 06:27

                  @GregMonarch: I agree, I'm not actually blaming the OP, but right at the bottom (s)he asked "What would you do".
                  I would have very impolitely told him no and to leave. Then I would have contracted Airtasker and tried to get him deregistered. Finally, I would have tried to find his actual business online and left one star reviews on multiple websites.

                  Over the top? Maybe. But as you said, it's a personality thing and if I feel someone is trying to rip me off, I'll make sure that they regret doing so.

                  • GregMonarch on 20/08/2019 - 18:47

                    @RubenM: Yeah I would have done similar or exactly the same (if I had gotten anyone in the first place, which is unlikely), because I've noticed professionals on such things charge the same or more, and most of the rest give the impression they're like this guy the OP got.

                    I'd also try to prevent other people falling into the same trap.

                    It's much like Uber… There's no way in the world I'd allow any women I knew to use them without informing them of Uber deliberately covering up all the rapes, as if their advertising about being safe with them because they do driver checks will make any difference whatsoever - because it's an easy job certain new citizens flooding western nations can get, and who are indoctrinated it's their moral mandate to rape anyone not part of their culture.

                    Why people use such things is beyond me… Better off asking around the people you know, or at least getting on a facebook buy/swap/sell page in your area and asking who people have used and would recommend. I found a $15 mens cut hairdresser that way, when local stores want $35+ just for a 6 minute short back & sides using clippers. I'd shave my head before paying that!

      • skido on 07/08/2019 - 13:58
        +1

        Really dodgy practices.. Best to pay a bit more for someone that works for an established company instead

      • Wonka on 08/08/2019 - 11:06
        +3

        Because of the implication

  • KBZ on 07/08/2019 - 13:40
    +26

    Shoulda asked him to leave and reported him to AirTasker.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:41
    +2

    On principle, no. ebay take exorbitant fees and that's the seller's issue. If it was a materials claim, maybe I would consider it but labour, no way. In the US I once took a cab that got hopelessly lost for half an hour and he still wanted a tip. No chance.

  • EightImmortals on 07/08/2019 - 13:44
    +25

    "Hi I'm Harry the handyman"
    "Can you fix the tap washer"?
    "No"
    "Can you change the oil in my car"?
    "No"
    "Can you mend my washing machine"?
    "No"
    "What makes you so handy"?
    "I only live around the corner"

    all creds to captain Kremin.

    • TheSmegger on 08/08/2019 - 12:30
      +2

      RIP Kenny, you wonderfully silly man.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:45
    +21

    I'd ask him to leave and submit a complaint to airtasker and a refund.

    There's no accounting for criminal behaviour and that's why everyone should be at least a little handy. It's never beneficial to have strangers in your home.

  • mbck on 07/08/2019 - 13:46
    +9

    He threatened you in your own home and you gave in. What are you?

    Lodge a complaint via airtasker. They may do something and provide you with credit. May.

    Ps how was the guy's rating?

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 13:54
      +3

      I agree , but he was aggressive in his personality and i was a bit shocked having greeted him nicely that all of a sudden he turned the tables, maybe i was too nice and took that as a weakness ?

      He seemed to be new and had one 5 star rating, but im believing he may have re registered after do8ng something similar

      • mbck on 07/08/2019 - 13:59
        +2

        I'm not saying you should equally be aggressive. But you can exert your authority. It's your god damn house. Something happened to me w hile trying to sell some stuff, long story short he got angry while attempting to bargain. Stood my ground and got him to leave.

        Just like eBay, try to find someone who has lots of reviews.

      • HighAndDry on 07/08/2019 - 14:34
        +8

        "Sorry, if you can't do the job I'll find someone else on Airtasker."

      • trustnoone on 07/08/2019 - 14:58
        +3

        I totally get it mate, its really easy to look back and see how things could be different, or what you could've said or done. But I personally find myself saying things that could be changed, or doing things that may be done better because I'm placed on the spot, didn't have time to think it through and I'm trying to weigh things up quickly.

        In my head it would've gone something like this "okay he's asking for $50, I already paid $50, is it worth me paying $100, just for this to be over and done with, and the guy leaves and theres no problems, I'm not super strapped for cash and I did choose the lowest offer".

        When realistically the other thought process could be "GTFO, and I'm putting in an air tasker complaint" (okay maybe nicer then that haha).

        But at least its good learning process for next time, and now you know you at least get to choose between the two when you're on the spot.

      • Other on 10/08/2019 - 22:27

        Don't be too nice to tradies. A lot will treat it as weakness. Beer at the end.
        Tradies are some of the best people I know as well.

    • keejoonc on 10/08/2019 - 22:04

      Airtasker rating is useless anyway. I've had idiots who bid on my ad and didn't turn up and eventually cancelled the job on me with no warning. Guess what? Because the job wasn't completed you can't even leave a review on the guy. How stupid is that?

    • coffeeinmyveins on 14/08/2019 - 12:52

      "may" ?

      This guy should be kicked off the platform. He's using it to extort people in their own homes. If they don't boot him permanently then it just breads this sort of behaviour.

  • try2bhelpful on 07/08/2019 - 13:47
    +11

    I would certainly report him to air tasker. It is hard to argue with someone actually in your house because you don’t know what they will do. Maybe you should’ve asked him to look at something outside, locked the door and told him to leave and that you would be contacting air tasker. Unfortunately people like this is why the gig economy is hit and miss.

  • childchance on 07/08/2019 - 14:12

    So did you give him the money?

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 14:18
      +23

      I gave him $20 extra because thats all i had on me ,i dont carry cash because i use my debit card.
      He had the cheek to say we can go to the nearby ATM after the job is finished ,i said no

      I offered him $20 and he funnily enough he said “ ok then u can pay extra when i do another job for you !

      I dont think so and i blocked his number, he was a weirdo and i was glad to get hm out

      • childchance on 07/08/2019 - 14:22
        +10

        Yeah smart move, i will say that's what i would've done. I will pay him to go away ASAP, don't know what he might've done if you refused.

      • Name on 09/08/2019 - 16:40
        +4

        As angry as i would have felt being ripped off, I think I'd of done the same! $20 to get a crazy out of the house is money well spent. Especially with the drugs people are on these days. Probably high on ice.

        Although $70 isn't too bad considering he'd of had to pay for fuel to get there, equipment, cigarettes to get him through the job and minus the airtasker fee. When considering time for travel, reading your request and bidding on it, doing the actual job, arguing with you about the fee, getting his boots on and finding his cigarettes. Probably on around $40-50 an hour sporadically.

      • iSamurai on 10/08/2019 - 04:33

        Insert meme

  • Hithere on 07/08/2019 - 14:24
    +20

    He had the cheek to say we can go to the nearby ATM after the job is finished

    Report him to air tasker.

  • Ryanek on 07/08/2019 - 14:31
    +5

    Would you have gave into his demands and paid him extra cash ?

    I am confident in saying no one on this website would have paid him extra.

    • kolorijo on 07/08/2019 - 14:47
      +4

      I will if he includes a lap dance for OP.

    • baskinghobo on 10/08/2019 - 09:29
      +1

      I concur. A lot of people here on their keyboards wouldn't have paid him extra until being put on the spot and crumbling under the pressure

      • Other on 10/08/2019 - 22:29

        I concur Mr hobo!

  • HighAndDry on 07/08/2019 - 14:34
    +7

    No. Tell him you paid via Airtasker. If he's not happy, you can find someone else - and claim a refund from Airtasker and report him while you're at it.

  • spackbace on 07/08/2019 - 14:47
    +41

    Interesting there's a few heroes in here ;) If someone was bigger than you, seemed more crazy than you and you feared for your health or that of your family, yes you'd probably give in to the extortion.

    The Airtasker guy knows where you live, all you have of his would be his phone number, and that could just be a burner pre-paid phone. If anything happened, anything physical or you challenged him, you'd be constantly worrying about when he'd come back to throw a brick through your window or something. You'd likely buy a security camera, or a set of them, which would cost you more money.

    It's fine how you went about it OP, and at least now you know for next time. Maybe even ask around family/friends if anyone can do these tasks for you next time?

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 15:27
      +3

      It's fine considering we know the outcome. Certainly the better way to approach was what OP did, which is not provoke this person.

      I would have simply asked the person to leave. If asked why, I'd tell them I'm uncomfortable with their request and mannerism.

      Allowing them to continue with the work means allowing them to stay longer and/or to go get their tools (possibly tools for robbing the place). The first entry may have been to case the house since the most likely caller is elderly or female. They throw a curve ball to see if anyone else is home that may want to interject. No one was home so they go out and get their tools and/or mate and the outcome may have been worse.

      Call me paranoid but I've lived in places where this happens. I've been robbed and I've witnessed some too.

    • KBZ on 07/08/2019 - 15:51
      +2

      SO majority of the responses on here is asking the person to leave and we are 'heros'? Right.

      • spackbace on 07/08/2019 - 15:59
        +6

        Half the people have said asked, half have said tell

        And after you ask him to leave, after you've confronted him and he says no he's here to do the job blah blah blah, then what? It's still confrontational asking them to leave, and it could still get him further offside.

        Given OP didn't ask/tell them to leave and instead paid the money, when all the replies are saying they would've done something different, then yes it can make it seem like the OP did something wrong, which they didn't when they were in that situation for themselves.

        Hindsight is a lovely thing and I doubt OP needs people telling them that they'd do something differently, after they've had the chance to think about it.

        • KBZ on 07/08/2019 - 16:11

          confrontational asking them to leave, and it could still get him further offside.

          Lotta assumptions on both sides of the fence lot of ifs and buts but asking them to leave is the least aggressive option OP has or anyone besides making themselves feel guilt in handing over more money.
          If he got more aggressive or was about to wail OP different story but lotta assumptions.

          I doubt OP needs people telling them that they'd do something differently, after they've had the chance to think about it.

          What was the point of this forum post then?

          • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 16:24
            +3

            @KBZ: I think ol' spekky here is saying that it is dangerous to provoke a stranger with dangerous tools in your home. Some of the responses such as "debating the merits of the agreed upon contract with the gentleman" (I paraphrase of course) could have been detrimental.

    • Omitsukasa on 10/08/2019 - 12:15
      +2

      I'm 100% certain I would've told him, "that's ok you made a mistake. You don't have to do the job then, I'll ask airtasker to refund me."

      That's because I live in an apartment and neighbours will come out to look/help if it gets too noisy. Not sure what I would do in a house though.

    • trapper on 16/08/2019 - 12:34

      What? This is not extortion, he's just trying it on for extra cash.

      Tell him to get lost, if he does make any actual threat then you can 'give in' - and call the police.

  • Taro Milk Tea on 07/08/2019 - 16:31
    -8

    You are all got fooled, OP is the handyman. The only reason he didn't finish the story is to get moral justification of the bad thing he's done…

  • Kaz0551 on 07/08/2019 - 16:47
    +8

    I had a demo company come to break up and remove a massive slab of concrete (35m2?). They did a test corner while quoting, no asbestos.

    On the day, they started before I arrived. Bad news - They found asbestos shards in the fill. I was convinced it was planted. The cost for the job doubled instantly, you can't dump asbestos in concrete at a concrete recycler. I was offered the choice of a) paying at extra $2000 in disposal. b) paying 3/4 of the original cost. they walking away and me disposing myself. I stated that 3/4 of the original cost was steep for a job not completed and was blackmailed with the possibility of workcover becoming involved (ie, them (profanity) up my renovation.) I paid the extra and will never use them again. I have also had some amazing trades involved on my current reno. You win some, you lose some. Life.

    • khell on 08/08/2019 - 19:12
      +2

      Name and shame please

      • Indomietable on 09/08/2019 - 06:52
        +5

        It's not really shaming. You should leave reviews to warn others and hopefully kill shoddy businesses. Do a service for your community.

        • Other on 10/08/2019 - 22:31

          You can't just name a business because you want to, because you could get a defamation lawsuit.

          How are you going to Prove that it was planted?

          • trapper on 16/08/2019 - 12:38

            @Other: It is not defamation if it is true.

            • Other on 16/08/2019 - 14:11

              @trapper: How do you prove its true?

              The asbestos was found.

              The planting may be true, but it is an allegation without proof.

              • trapper on 19/08/2019 - 14:32

                @Other: I don't need to prove it's true, thats OP's problem.

                Also he did say "I was convinced it was planted", not 'It was planted"

                • Other on 19/08/2019 - 16:49

                  @trapper: First you say "It is not defamation if it is true."

                  Then you say "I don't need to prove it's true, thats OP's problem."

                  SO my original point remains - Op can't say: "these evil X@%es planted XXX".

                  If you are reporting "X said this about this compant", then that is not defamation (though it may be defamation on the part of X), however if you said "I heard they planted X" or "they planted X" then that is defamation and you expose yourself.

                  • trapper on 20/08/2019 - 11:03

                    @Other: Yes and I still say "It is not defamation if it is true"

                    If OP is lying about this experience then that is his problem, and yes it would be extremely unwise to go public with a defamatory lie.

    • Lockieasy on 09/08/2019 - 14:08

      Wow, always amazed at the scams people come up with. Thanks for sharing.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 14/08/2019 - 12:54

        What scam? He admitted he didn't know if it was planted. What if they were legit?

  • Donaldhump on 07/08/2019 - 16:58
    +2

    id bum a smoke off him, then says "noo, ur mistake, please leave you utter gronk", roast him on air tasker, get back my $50 and find some one else.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 17:27

    In some ways i must say I should of been more confident and maybe stood my ground, but I said “ look i only have $20, , I think he was thinking I was going to hire him for other jobs so he took it.

    In some ways im angry at not sticking up for myself ,but I guess i will “ screen” them better next time on Airtasker ,ask them questions etc before I accept their service

    One of my neighbors said I should of used my mobile to film him,but this was in the evening and i was only home so i didnt want to get into any problems,but i blocked his number,no doubt he has tried to call me.

    Maybe i was too friendly when he arrived im thinking?
    Should i be more aggressive type ? Or more confident i guess
    I mean i even offered him a cup of coffee Lol

    Does anyne have any tips on screening tradesmen / handyman on Airtasker?

    • GregMonarch on 08/08/2019 - 22:32
      +4

      First thing is to put a peephole in the door. I wouldn't even open the door to someone smoking a cigarette. They obviously have no respect and are probably inept too. I'd rather get banned from the service myself.

      1. If you do let them in, download an app beforehand and put on shirt with a pocket, and put your phone on record in the pocket before opening the door. (Audio at least.)

      2. See my 'emergency phone call' post above. Have $5 (or $10 at the most) ready in your wallet, but also with all other notes and coins removed. So you can say it's all you have, you don't get paid til next month, I really have to go it might be the last chance I get to speak to aunty x.

      3. Check feedback first. Same with buying anything online, really - ebay, etc. Just write off anyone with less than x (10? 20?) good, genuine feedbacks as if they don't exist. Let someone else take the risk. Read any negative feedbacks. Ignore replies not in comprehensible English. (They are cheapest for a reason. Because other customers have done similar checks but no-one wanted them. And who cares if they're new - get next person on the screen.)

      4. Have someone else present. Better if they don't live with you. Explain what you've paid for, how it all works, and ask THEM beforehand to jump to your defense if someone tries it on again.

      5. Or - ask neighbours to do it next time (who seem competent).

    • Tuftsdude on 09/08/2019 - 13:51
      +3

      There is nothing wrong with offering him a cup of tea, etc. We've had a lot of tradies in our house the last few months, all offered tea/coffee and sweets. Firstly, you should have asked him to finish his smoke before entering the house. If I get an extortionist like that, I'd tell him that's not what we agreed on. If he insists I'd tell him to get out of the house and report him on Airtasker. If you can pull out a voice recorder on your phone before that then great. But no way in hell am I giving in to a bully.

    • eddiet on 09/08/2019 - 14:39
      +1

      [Edit - I checked associated button but not sure if I am using it correctly so its better left unchecked]

      Sorry about your experience with airtasker. I use it to make some cash on the side and have done about 50 jobs all 5 star.
      The only tips I can give you are.
      1. Be very specific about what materials you will or not be providing.
      2. Make it clear that offers must be inclusive of everything to get the job done (specifically Airtasker fees, others include travel fee, fuel or whatever bs they want to make up) and that no further remuneration will happen.
      3. Avoid people with no references, choose someone with at least 20+ positive reviews, read them!.
      4. As a condition maybe specify if they cannot complete the task after seeing it in person they must agree to cancel the job at no fee.

      If you're in the Melbourne south east area and need a quote feel free to reach out. I can send you my Airtasker profile and even LinkedIn profile.
      Kind Regards
      Eddie

      • peterpeterpumpkin on 09/08/2019 - 17:42

        I joined Airtasker as a runner when having a single review was a rarity. So it would be insincere of me to suggest that new users should expect an arbitrary number of positive reviews to change a lightbulb. I haven't used the platform in a few years so I can't argue if that's actually the standard these days…

        "Personally, I wouldn't trust anyone with less than 53 completed tasks".

      • marktsaihh on 07/12/2019 - 18:40

        What's your Airtasker profile? I have a few jobs down SE Melbourne way.

    • Serapis on 10/08/2019 - 15:50

      I think haggling was the best outcome, no need to act aggressive or film him since you don't know him but he knows where you live and don't know what he'll do.

      He put the lowball offer with the intention to come and haggle for a bit more so he was probably fine to meet halfway

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 07/08/2019 - 17:48
    +3

    Doggy pricks everywhere - you can report him but i had an issue with airtasker and they were f useless i wouldnt trust anyone that hasnt go at least 15-20+ reviews on that app because there is a lot of idiots on it

    It can be a good way to save money for small jobs but remember these strangers are coming to your house airtasker basically wipe there hands clean of anything that goes wrong and put you to there evil as f 3rd party insurance….

    Because your not dealing with a 'physical business' just individual trying to make a quick buck it can be very risky - loads of good tradesmen too dont get me wrong but a lot of centerlink dole bludgers trying to make cash away from the government eye by picking up cash jobs to feed there drug habits.

    • try2bhelpful on 07/08/2019 - 17:58
      +4

      “Doggy pricks everywhere” we’ll I have had my leg humped on a number of occasions, but I wouldn’t say everywhere. Sorry couldn’t resist. :)

    • GregMonarch on 08/08/2019 - 22:41
      +1

      Yeah, I wouldn't use such a 'service'. There's probably competent people on there, but it also attracts the dregs.

      Note there's a reason Uber is advertising like crazy how 'safe' you are using them. Big hint: It's not because we are. Just do a search including the word, 'rape'. (i.e. If people can bypass bad feedback to sign up multiple accounts, then there's no reason why Airtasker is any safer.)

      Btw… If you were a thief who wanted to check out people's homes, who lives there, etc. what better way. They now have a plausible excuse for why their fingerprints were found on site too!

  • IMUSTMAKEMOREMONEY on 07/08/2019 - 18:53
    +1

    Report the con artist to Airtasker.

    In future, before you let any tradie handy person in your house. Make it 110% clear that you have no money and will not be paying more than their bid. If they don't like it tell them to f**k off!

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 19:11
      +1

      If they accept those conditions, hammer conveniently available on their tool belt and they're standing in your living room, what then?

      "Hey mate, I'm going to need $500 more to start"

      You say no and they start their job but make a bloody huge mess on purpose.

      There's simply no replacement for self sufficiency.

      • try2bhelpful on 07/08/2019 - 19:18
        +1

        Yeah, nah, I don't think I'm arguing with the guy with the scalpel who is about to remove my brain tumour, or do it myself. Unfortunately this is a bit of an issue, as well. It is hard to get a complete picture of costs for a medical procedure before it is done. A lot of people find out the full costs when they get the "gap costs".

        • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 19:26
          +2

          It costs half a million dollars to get a medical degree and specialize, not to mention at least a decade of life, mandatory police checks, annual reporting when we renew registration, ongoing costs to stay registered…

          … and you're drawing parallels to an AirTasker? I do believe that's a bit of a stretch.

          • try2bhelpful on 07/08/2019 - 19:28
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: No, I'm saying that being self sufficient doesn't always work and that finding out costs upfront can be difficult in some situations. The difference is we accept it with doctors and not handymen.

            • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 19:29

              @try2bhelpful: I see.

              I was speaking in context of using AirTasker for tasks that do not require a licensed professional/tradesmen.

              Ie. Minimising exposure.

              • try2bhelpful on 07/08/2019 - 19:34

                @[Deactivated]: I, absolutely, agree with you on the air tasker; if I was the OP I would've been fairly PO'd as well. I was just responding to the fact that, in some situations, self sufficieny isn't an option and getting prices up front can be difficult. However, even in the air tasker situation, there are things that people might have issues with being self sufficient with. I think, in all situations, the price should be given up front with a plus/minus variation given - if necessary.

                • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2019 - 19:39

                  @try2bhelpful: And good surgeons do that. We provide our component of the cost. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that the fees of all other parties involved remains the same. I can get quotes but I'd be doing that as a third party, and often, that bites me in the ass because patients do not understand the concept of a third party.

                  If I bill the patient the final figure and remunerate the other parties, I'd have to charge more to cover my additional and risk as a financial coordinator. The patients will not like it either because it will be seen as me tagging on a fee.

                  Either way, educated patients have never given me grief. It's only the ones who cannot understand that I am working in tandem with several other entities.

                  (Of course, there are exceptions of "flexible" operators who still practice some "flexible" maths).

                  • try2bhelpful on 08/08/2019 - 15:35
                    +1

                    @[Deactivated]: I can see your point but the problem is health costs can add up quickly, including out of pocket expenses, and people are vulnerable when they are sick. If you provide people with an itemised estimate, including variances, to show all the relevant charges then people have more of an understanding what the costs are. If you are getting a house built you have a cost upfront and variances are discussed, you aren’t just presented with a bill afterwards and told “pay it”. People expect there will be an extra cost associated with a project manager who oversees all the trades. I’m glad your “educated” clients understand that the people who work with you can’t stick with an estimate; I wonder if these people would be equally understanding when the builder says the electrician quoted for so much to do the job but half way through decided to double the rate, so here is your bill. Frankly, I have a great deal of admiration for medical people. I have a great GP and I don’t begrudge the fact he charges extra, but I also know the fees up front. I also have a great respect for builders and am quite happy to pay for variances when they are justified and explained properly. An “educated” customer is one who is fully aware of what they are in for.

                    • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2019 - 16:05

                      @try2bhelpful:

                      People expect there will be an extra cost associated with a project manager who oversees all the trades.

                      This is what I was referring to as "value added" where patients do not like.

                      Honestly, I can't win em all. Some people are going to complain regardless of how far I bend backwards so I'm not going to bend at all. I've paid my dues of dealing with impossible people. If someone is going to be a nuisance, I send them to my competitor. Joking(?).

                      I wonder if these people would be equally understanding when the builder says the electrician quoted for so much to do the job but half way through decided to double the rate

                      They would take it up directly with the electrician. The rich are rich because they're resourceful and take initiative.

                      • try2bhelpful on 08/08/2019 - 16:35

                        @[Deactivated]: Educated and rich aren’t the same thing.

                        Funnily enough the rich people would not take it up with the electrician because that is what they pay the project manager for; they don’t have a contract with the electrician, they have it with the builder. They are not going to waste their precious time talking to someone like that. And any electrician, worth his salt, will tell the rich person to talk to the builder, it is his problem; then they will mutter “tossers” as they walk away. It is the project managers job to manage the third party providers. What “initiative” do you think they can take, threaten the electrician?

                        It sounds, to me, like the medical profession is woefully inadequate when it comes to managing the business aspects of an operation. People aren’t “impossible” because they expect to know, with variances, the costs up front. If they are given the facts, and the breakdown, you are removing part of the anxiety of the process.

                        I’m sure you are a fine surgeon but, no offence, you are coming off as a less than stellar service provider. It sounds like there is s definite niche in the market for a service that assembles the medical team and provides the breakdown quote for the patient. The criteria for selection would be based on the ratings, of the various personnel and the cost of service. I wouldn’t expect it to be a surgeon’s job to do this work, I’d rather they concentrated on surgery, but it sounds like it needs to be someone’s. I can’t think of any other service that people really tolerate this.

                        • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2019 - 16:53

                          @try2bhelpful: No offence taken.

                          I don't want to tarnish what I'm good at by doing something I am probably dogshit at and all odds are against me - financial management.

                          I give the patient my fee, what I foresee could increase my fee and then the rest is an estimation. I always emphasise that I am not in control of the rest of it and if the patient isn't comfortable with that, I would rather no proceed. There's always a desperate practitioner out there who's willing to make empty promises.

                          As for me, I know I'm going to have to retire one day and my body will fail me. All I have left is the value of my word so whilst I'm young enough, I'm not going to muddy the significance of my promises.

                          People aren’t “impossible” because they expect to know, with variances, the costs up front. If they are given the facts, and the breakdown, you are removing part of the anxiety of the process.

                          This is virtually impossible sometimes. Our estimation can be very far off as so many things can go wrong. If I go overtime, my anesthetist has to stay longer. Sometimes, it is so much longer that the cost goes up exponentially. Then hospital fees go up due to the hidden cost of rescheduling other people. It's like asking a builder "how much to build a house" and the builder is shown a picture of the grass the house is meant to sit on. No idea where, access, design, materials… and we can't always go in and survey first since surveys could be equally invasive for us.

                        • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2019 - 17:00

                          @try2bhelpful:

                          What “initiative” do you think they can take, threaten the electrician?

                          I always ask for itemised cost even if the electrician is being managed by the builder.

                          If the cost goes up significantly, I will ask for a new itemised cost.

                          They can call me a tosser but this tosser knows a little bit to call bullshit and understands what VCAT will take seriously.

                          Ps. My social group is mainly developers (hence I am the poor one). I can tell you that an electrician who thinks they can double their fee and think they can do so without being questioned is one that only work with pushovers. It doesn't work that way. The ones that think they're above reproach will be the one who is asked to leave the job without pay. (Ie. Given the "F off".)

                          • eldudebrothers on 08/08/2019 - 22:46
                            +2

                            @[Deactivated]: Medicare knowledge and medical specialist expenses are poorly understood by the general public. I think I should do a post detailing these concepts but I somehow doubt my patients are on ozbargain…..

                            • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 09:38

                              @eldudebrothers: Most people will read it and think, "pre-emptive rip off justification".

                              … then shop at places for the cheapest everything.

                              … then complain they're not getting paid enough.

                            • try2bhelpful on 09/08/2019 - 17:15

                              @eldudebrothers: Frankly I would love that post. Ozbargainers are just as likely to be patients as the general population. Please, please provide us with the knowledge. The time to learn about this stuff is not when we are staring down the barrel of a major op and feel we aren’t in a position to ask financial questions as well as medical ones. We have no way of knowing if the surgeon is being fair with us. Surgery costs seem to be a closed door policy and, as shown by the info from prostate surgery, the price differential can be quite large.

                          • try2bhelpful on 09/08/2019 - 17:08

                            @[Deactivated]: I think you may be bolstering my point. The issue is all services should be itemised and variances added. Including all third party providers. Maybe I’m simplistic but a medical procedure should work like the provision of any service when there are multiple groups involved. A project manager to coordinate and interface with the client and the various providers who deliver the service. I didn’t mean to call you a tosser, I was just saying that is what the electrician may well say if they were approached directly. The builder provides the variances, so they can cover eventualities. If the variances are explained to the patient then they know the expected range. You wouldn’t allow a builder to just provide you with a bill afterwards, way outside the range, and just pay it. I’ve been a project manager, I’ve quoted on IT projects, I’ve worked in the tech areas delivering IT projects. I know how difficult it can be to “get the ducks lined up” and get the job delivered to requirements and on budget. I also know when it is advisable for the client to meet members of the delivery team and when it isn’t. So do you hold your anaesthetists and other medical providers to the same standard as electricians? Do you query them when the bill is way outside of the range for the quote provided to the patient? Do you tell them to F off?

                            • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 17:14

                              @try2bhelpful: I think we are starting to draw parallels where there are none and this has gone too far off tangent.

                              • try2bhelpful on 09/08/2019 - 17:22

                                @[Deactivated]: I think the parallels are justified. Provision of a medical service should be subject to the same financial standards as any other service. The costs, with variance, should be provided to the patient up front and the third parties held to their agreed pricing. However, it would appear we will not reach an accord on this so the discussion will get us no further. I do thank-you for the discussion. I’m sure I got the better deal, based on your per hour charge.

  • chumlee on 07/08/2019 - 19:36
    -2

    This situation is why I have counterfeit $50 notes on hand

    • John Kimble on 07/08/2019 - 19:40
      +5

      riiiight…

    • lethalmoney on 10/08/2019 - 00:23
      +1

      cos federal offences are cool, right?

      • chumlee on 10/08/2019 - 07:00

        It's just a joke.

        The world is so uptight nowadays

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