PayPal Dispute with OzBargainer - Anything I Can Do?

AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:34
Last edited 10/09/2019 - 22:23

update Shung has posted my full name and all our texts: https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR

Hi guys anyone know what I can do in this instance?

Sold a laptop on ozbargain via paypal. The buyer kept it for a month then told me the fan is too noisy

He has now lodged a complaint with PayPal that the item wasn't as described and PayPal is siding with them

PayPal said even if the buyer is lying or committing fraud there's no protection for sellers. They told me I would win the case and now they are saying they made a mistake…

One of the staff said I need to receive the item back then lodge a counter claim saying they didn't send it back in good condition… Wtf?

I have all the texts emails and photos where the buyer admits lying. PayPal said they cannot review any information unless it's from the buyer.

The special HP warranty I gave the buyer also let's hp go to his office or home and fix or replace on site for free. No cost and no delays.

.——————-
Hi Mark,

I finally started up the laptop last night and spent a couple of hours setting it up. Unfortunately I could not come to terms with the loud noise from the ventilating fan and as exaggerating as it sounds, it gives me a headache everytime I hear the noise.

Would it be possible for me to return the laptop? I will of course be happy to bear the cost of shipping the laptop back to you and am only seeking the refund of $1600 and nothing more.

I really wanted it to work and I am sorry.

Shung

Hi there Shung, that's strange are you running it in high performance mode? And have you done all the windows and Lenovo updates. It was sent in factory reset mode so there is a lot of updates.

The warranty is very good HP will come to your home or work for free and fix or repair or replace as need be if there is a problem with the fan. It should be quiet unless gaming or in high performance mode. Happy to call HP for you if it helps or find the warranty number and pass it to you. If you're still unhappy after they visit you, they should be able to replace it with a new one.

I'm just at work at the moment but let me know later how I can help :)

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Comments

  • Hybroid on 07/09/2019 - 13:39
    +4

    When you say sold via paypal… Was it via sending to a friend or family or paying for an item or service?

    • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:44

      They sent me the money so I don't know which option they selected

      • SnoozeAndLose on 07/09/2019 - 13:47
        +4

        If you are not getting full $1600 then they have paid for goods and you pay the fee.

        • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:49
          +1

          Yeah i got $1558

          • SnoozeAndLose on 07/09/2019 - 13:52

            @AussieMark: Yes you have pay the fee and it already should alert you.

            • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:55
              +1

              @SnoozeAndLose: Sucks to be me

              I took photos of the laptop before I sent it. At the post office too. Tested everything…

              I have texts photos, email and invoice all proving he is lying

              • Hybroid on 07/09/2019 - 13:58
                +6

                @AussieMark:

                I have texts photos, email and invoice all proving he is lying

                Lying about what? He's saying the fan is noisy and possibly broken or defective. None of the above counter-proves that.

                Since he paid you for a goods item, likely has Paypal buyer coverage and they are unlikely to side with you unfortunately.

                • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:59
                  +5

                  @Hybroid: ? He said I promised an unopened brand new laptop. That's why PayPal is giving him a refund

              • SnoozeAndLose on 07/09/2019 - 14:00

                @AussieMark: Did he ever say the machine is working all fine? If not all photos you have just can prove the machine delivered ok. Noise of a fan is not anything you can prove in photo unless you video the machine in working condition with no fan issue. May be should ask the ozbargainer who brought your laptop and reply in this thread.

                  • SnoozeAndLose on 09/09/2019 - 06:35
                    +6

                    @ripesashimi: Are you the buyer?

                  • Ughhh on 09/09/2019 - 13:21
                    +17

                    @ripesashimi:

                    The way I see it, buyer has the right to warranty and he's using it. If OP wanted this to be an as-is deal, he should have made it clear.

                    Consumer law doesn't apply to private sales. Buyer has no right to warranty from op. Every private sale is sold as is, to think otherwise is naive.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 14:39
                    +4

                    @ripesashimi: Lol. What warranty? It's a private sale.

                  • ronnknee on 09/09/2019 - 16:48
                    +7

                    @ripesashimi: Lol you have no idea what you're talking about.

      • Zonty on 08/09/2019 - 09:10
        +1

        Ask him do video recording put mobile 30 cm far let see how loud it is. If he does not send video then he is lying. When he make video include show model no too.

        • Jackson on 13/09/2019 - 21:20

          What if he just runs a desk fan in the background?

          • Zonty on 14/09/2019 - 09:29

            @Jackson: Desk fan not sound same as laptop fan and seriously desk fan, who have one now. speeding speed is slower.

  • CyberMurning on 07/09/2019 - 13:44
    +3

    Lenovo and HP are merging now?

    • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:45
      +1

      What do you mean? The laptop is HP haha did I type Lenovo? I'm on the phone so small screen sorry

      • rompastompa on 07/09/2019 - 13:50
        +7

        And have you done all the windows and Lenovo updates.

    • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:46

      I think you talking about the Lenovo I bought? This is the hp omen I sold :)

  • [Deactivated] on 07/09/2019 - 13:54
    +2

    Done buy a ozbargainer lol, and people complaining on here about gumtree haha, at least you get or give the cash and its done.

  • ssquid on 07/09/2019 - 13:56
    +1

    Ha, did you buy one of those "incorrectly priced" omens for $1500 and flog it off for $1600?

    • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:57
      +2

      I paid $1900 and gave him the receipt.

      The laptop was $3500 on their site but they ran out of stock so upgraded the model

  • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:56

    Yeah pretty surprised lol. All he had to do was make 1 phone call to hp for a brand new laptop replacement.

    Instead he waste 4 hours of my time and his

    PayPal wants me to get an independent 3rd party to show that he used the laptop now… Lol

    • SnoozeAndLose on 07/09/2019 - 16:51
      +2

      If the laptop is fault of course he can get HP to replace buy what if it is not and he just changed his mind and find something to blame

  • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:59
    +1

    I'm going to collate all the photos, messages and emails and post here and to the PayPal (not that they will do anything).

    I've also called American express as PayPal tried to take $850 from my credit card to clear the negative balance back to 0

  • DemocracyManifest on 07/09/2019 - 14:03
    +23

    In future cash only

    • buffalo bill on 08/09/2019 - 18:15

      "Cash is King" for a reason

  • AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 14:11
    +3

    One thing I learnt is I should have left the negative balance of -$1500

    And be careful if you make ANY purchases PayPal will try to access any negative balances from other payments. I spent $5 at chemist warehouse and PayPal charged me $855.

    • paraneoplastic on 08/09/2019 - 20:12
      +6

      goat soap?

      • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:13
        +5

        hahah yeah i ended up returning the soap just to make my statements clearer… Lodged a dispute with Amex

        Cannot believe paypal added on $850 to my damn soap purchase

        • paraneoplastic on 08/09/2019 - 20:17
          +1

          Haha, sorry but that's hilarious, damn goat soap.

          Amex are pretty good and should be able to block the charge (especially if you're a platinum or one of the higher fee card holders) - just be warned this will likely cause your PP account to be banned (so make sure you have no pending funds etc)

          I'll give my bit of advice, your best bet is to accept the laptop back and only do a partial refund (i.e. 25% restocking fee) let paypal know this, phrase it as wear and tear or nominal depreciation.

          Given that they sent you into negative means you haven't been included in the new paypal seller system (i think it's if you've done like $50k+ (don't quote me on that) through paypal, where they no longer make a negative balance or freeze funds during a dispute.

          I've had a similar thing occur to me over ebay for a pair of high end headphones ($2.2k) in the end, i realised paypal were going to side with the buyer, so i accepted the return and charged 25% restocking fee and resold it for a profit lol - YMMV though.

          • AussieMark on 09/09/2019 - 17:37

            @paraneoplastic: Hey thanks for this

            I am afraid to hit the issue refund button…. Im not sure if it will let me do a restock fee.

            All I see is issue refund button

            Refund the buyer
            The disputed amount will be withdrawn from your PayPal balance and this case will be closed.

            Note: The item will be retained by the buyer

            "Amount to be refunded by you
            $1,558.10 AUD

            Fee to be refunded by PayPal
            $41.90 AUD

            Total refund
            $1,600.00 AUD"

            • paraneoplastic on 09/09/2019 - 17:44
              +1

              @AussieMark: gotta call paypal and organize it if you don't have a 'premier' account (if that's what they are still called) mate, also not sure if you can do it when they've disputed the transaction

              Also in the future, don't sell to someone who uses their parents PP (or for that matter anyones other than their own) - you could've been in for whole other form a BS if they claimed unauth transaction which is even harder to fight

  • ihbh on 07/09/2019 - 14:22
    +1

    I know it's a waste of your time, but can't you take it back and get HP warranty if necessary - saves any more wasted time? Why did you buy it if you didn't really have a use for it, or have you bought something else already?

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:14

      I purchased the lenovo x1 Carbon as I wanted light weight. Just to clarify I am the seller in this instance for the HP laptop.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/09/2019 - 14:24
    +4

    Only ever accept Paypal friends/family transfers in future.

    Unfortunately it sounds like you're screwed. Paypal nearly always side with the buyer. Take it back. Lodge a claim if they've damaged it. Sell it again.

    • Michaelz101 on 07/09/2019 - 14:31
      +2

      isnt this always in the buyers hands? i dont think there is a option to decline the transfer. To be frank, if i was buying $1600 laptop off someone i didnt know i would use the buyer protection too.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/09/2019 - 14:42
        +3

        If I'm selling a $1600 laptop to someone I didn't know that I would definitely refuse to accept a transaction with buyer protection as I'm more likely to get ripped off than the buyer is.

        You can simply reverse the transaction and tell them to pay again using the friends and family option.

        • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 13:41
          +1

          Can you explain the Friends/family option as opposed for Pruchase/service?

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/09/2019 - 17:24
            +2

            @capslock janitor: No fees. No protection.

            • kiitos on 08/09/2019 - 22:24
              +4

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Why would a buyer agree to that?

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 09:15
                +1

                @kiitos: You serious? People buy stuff using cash all the time. No difference. Cash has no fees, no protection.

                • Croshema on 09/09/2019 - 12:09
                  +2

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Difference being you are often face to face with cash, inspecting the goods.

                  As apposed to when using PayPal, where it’s easy to not send the item, or send a bar of soap.

                • kiitos on 10/09/2019 - 08:25

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: What? I'm asking what incentive would there be for a buyer to use family/friend PayPal payments instead of purchase?

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 16:24

                    @kiitos:

                    I'm only talking from OP's point of view here.

                    I'm not sure how to word the above sentence any differently to assist you to understand.

                  • GregMonarch on 11/09/2019 - 00:58

                    @kiitos: The incentive is they don't get a laptop without forfieting the buyer protection and using the family/friend method to pay for it - which is the same as if they met at a supermarket food court, handed over the cash, and left with the laptop. If the buyer won't use it - then the laptop goes to another buyer who will.

                    • kiitos on 12/09/2019 - 07:43

                      @GregMonarch: I agree to a point, the difference though is when meeting in person you have certainly of at least seeing and getting the item, vs posting via PayPal and hoping it will arrive?

                      • GregMonarch on 12/09/2019 - 16:01

                        @kiitos: Yeah, according to other posts here that I read later, Paypal can still claw the money back anyway.

      • jace88 on 08/09/2019 - 09:05
        +1

        I’m also wondering this as a buyer of mine recently ignored the agreed family and friends payment and sent it with the buyer protection. He was not too familiar with how PayPal worked so I just sucked it up and sent the item anyway. No harm or claim over a $80 item but I’m wondering if there is a way to reverse it easily and force family and friends so no buyer protection?

        I rarely sell stuff and don’t judge but the above was a gumtree sale… where they needed to use PayPal so I could ship interstate. In hindsight I should’ve asked for online transfer.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/09/2019 - 17:15

          Yep, just click the transaction and refund it.

          • John Dough on 10/09/2019 - 10:44

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Don't go refunding money when a buyer still has the goods!

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 16:25
              +1

              @John Dough: Never said to do that, obviously meant when the transfer is received before sending the goods. Refund it, demand it the correct way, once received then send the item.

        • Quantumcat on 08/09/2019 - 19:30
          +1

          Yes as zeggie said just refund it and contact them, but you'll lose a little bit with the refund (like around $1 or so)

    • Quantumcat on 07/09/2019 - 15:00

      Friends and family isn't a guarantee as they can still get a credit card reversal

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/09/2019 - 17:16

        Of course, but no different to a bank transfer in that aspect. Fraud is fraud.

        • Quantumcat on 08/09/2019 - 19:29
          +2

          Very different to a bank transfer, you can't reverse a bank transfer

          • paraneoplastic on 08/09/2019 - 20:13
            +3

            @Quantumcat: You can, if your bank is willing to do a funds recovery

            Even cash isn't safe in the end, fake notes etc.

            • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 20:30

              @paraneoplastic: Fake notes don't seem all that common nowadays. Especially with our world-class polymer designs.

              Much easier for anyone to just 'reverse' an electronic transact

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 09:17
            +1

            @Quantumcat: You most certainly can reverse a bank transfer. Have had it happen to me.

            End of the day there's always some risk. Even had a friend duped with counterfeit $50s when he sold a phone. It happens.

            • Quantumcat on 09/09/2019 - 09:18

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Maybe my bank is special then, whenever you put in a new recipient it warns you to make sure the bsb and account is correct because incorrect payments can't be recovered. I am pretty sure any bank would only intervene if someone hacked into your account or something similar. Not purposeful payments that you changed your mind about

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/09/2019 - 10:17
                +1

                @Quantumcat:

                I am pretty sure any bank would only intervene if someone hacked into your account or something similar.

                Thus why I used the word fraud.

                Common excuse given to the buyer's bank "my child/spouse accessed my account/credit card and made the transaction without my consent".

            • GregMonarch on 11/09/2019 - 01:01

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Depends on the bank though, of course. I've asked about this a few times and their answer was always a definite no.

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:14

      thanks buddy I am reading all the comments just hard to reply to everyone (and dnt want to make it too long)

  • Pluto88 on 07/09/2019 - 16:45
    +8

    Honestly I would just refund, get your laptop back (assuming it's still in the condition you sent it) rather then deal with Paypal too many loopholes for buyers to exploit.

  • Sage on 07/09/2019 - 16:53
    +11

    just do the refund and sell it to someone else.

    • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 20:15
      +1

      thanks for the feedback guys. I doubt anyone will buy it on ozbargain though after this experience - I need to clear my rep and my name.

      Lucky I've been selling stuff on here for a few years so should be okay

  • Sage on 07/09/2019 - 16:57
    +1

    I have all the texts emails and photos where the buyer admits lying. PayPal said they cannot review any information unless it's from the buyer.

    The special HP warranty I gave the buyer also let's hp go to his office or home and fix or replace on site for free. No cost and no delays.

    Has the buyer responded to the warranty suggestion?
    Also, what do you mean the buyer is lying?

  • onetwothreefour on 07/09/2019 - 21:36
    +23

    Never trust an ozbargainer.

    • Kangal on 08/09/2019 - 12:55
      +16

      ^OP, don't trust what you read above

      • Minimum chips on 08/09/2019 - 18:58
        +12

        ^This guy sounds pretty shady, don't trust him either.

        By the way, I am the deposed prince of Nigeria…

      • peterpeterpumpkin on 12/09/2019 - 13:12
        +2

        ^Trust this guy. An OzBargainer never lies.

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 12/09/2019 - 13:13
          +4

          ^This guy talks about himself in third-person. BEWARE!

    • outlander on 08/09/2019 - 20:30
      +1

      But.. I'm an ozbargainer!

      Who does a man trust when he can't even trust himself?

    • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2019 - 23:11

      He surely got a “bargain”. Hhahaahahha

  • Alan Fartridge on 08/09/2019 - 08:57
    +3

    In my experience with PayPal these disputes almost always end up being won by the buyer. Seller protection really only covers claims on 'goods not received' if you supply a tracking number with delivered status.

    The buyer can pretty much claim faulty or not as described and return the item (at their expense) for a full refund.

    The issue with PayPal now is that they no longer refund seller's fees when you refund somebody. So in this case, even if you receive the original item back, you're still going to out $40 in fees & the shipping cost.

  • Randolph Duke on 08/09/2019 - 09:41

    No one is going to tag in the seller and ask for their side of the story? Very easy to find.

    • Ughhh on 08/09/2019 - 10:11
      +16

      No one is going to tag in the seller and ask for their side of the story?

      Op Is the seller…

      • Randolph Duke on 08/09/2019 - 12:03

        Buyer - will teach me for posting as soon as I woke up.

    • No ONE on 08/09/2019 - 15:27
      +11

      No one is going to tag in

      As requested: Shung

      • AussieMark on 08/09/2019 - 15:39
        +6

        Hey I don't want to anyone to insult him online or dox him so I'm going to ask this be removed

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/09/2019 - 17:18
          +8

          It was clearly obvious who the user was before this tag.

  • Thundaja on 08/09/2019 - 09:49
    +11

    It is disappointing that a member of this community would do this.

    • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 10:00
      +49

      Lol community?? Bunch of random people with a common goal of saving $$. I wouldn't trust anyone on the internet…nor ever accept paypal for that matter

      • Thundaja on 08/09/2019 - 12:30
        +24

        Bunch of random people with a common goal […]

        You just described a community chief.

        Community - the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common.

        • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 14:15

          Aha you're one of those 'chief' people. Generally that's a good indication of where this will go but I'll give it a shot. I was implying that there's no sense of comnunity i.e. trust and looking after each other etc rather than the literal definition.

          • Thundaja on 08/09/2019 - 15:48
            +5

            @gimme: I could read what you were implying. No need to be condescending.
            I completely agree you shouldn’t trust people on the internet - that should go without saying.
            That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t frown on members of this site from acting like this.

            • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 16:15

              @Thundaja: I agree but that's unrealistic expectations. I don't think there's any loyalty on the internet, even less on ozb where the vast majority are just here to save a buck and have a screw everyone else attitude if something doesn't go their way or meet their overinflated sense of entitlement. In other words this place is not a cimmunity in the traditional sense of the word. At best a business transaction.

      • capslock janitor on 08/09/2019 - 13:42

        nor ever accept paypal for that matter

        What's best to accept? Besides cash, if not possible

        • gimme on 08/09/2019 - 14:16
          +1

          Bank xfer over paypal. Sure not 100% full proof but far better.

      • outlander on 08/09/2019 - 20:35
        -1

        That's fine. Then you will lose out to those that do. I've made several dealings here, and they've all gone fine, and as a result I am at least $100 richer

        People forget that there are consequences to not trusting people, too.

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