PayPal Dispute with OzBargainer - Anything I Can Do?

AussieMark on 07/09/2019 - 13:34
Last edited 10/09/2019 - 22:23

update Shung has posted my full name and all our texts: https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR

Hi guys anyone know what I can do in this instance?

Sold a laptop on ozbargain via paypal. The buyer kept it for a month then told me the fan is too noisy

He has now lodged a complaint with PayPal that the item wasn't as described and PayPal is siding with them

PayPal said even if the buyer is lying or committing fraud there's no protection for sellers. They told me I would win the case and now they are saying they made a mistake…

One of the staff said I need to receive the item back then lodge a counter claim saying they didn't send it back in good condition… Wtf?

I have all the texts emails and photos where the buyer admits lying. PayPal said they cannot review any information unless it's from the buyer.

The special HP warranty I gave the buyer also let's hp go to his office or home and fix or replace on site for free. No cost and no delays.

.——————-
Hi Mark,

I finally started up the laptop last night and spent a couple of hours setting it up. Unfortunately I could not come to terms with the loud noise from the ventilating fan and as exaggerating as it sounds, it gives me a headache everytime I hear the noise.

Would it be possible for me to return the laptop? I will of course be happy to bear the cost of shipping the laptop back to you and am only seeking the refund of $1600 and nothing more.

I really wanted it to work and I am sorry.

Shung

Hi there Shung, that's strange are you running it in high performance mode? And have you done all the windows and Lenovo updates. It was sent in factory reset mode so there is a lot of updates.

The warranty is very good HP will come to your home or work for free and fix or repair or replace as need be if there is a problem with the fan. It should be quiet unless gaming or in high performance mode. Happy to call HP for you if it helps or find the warranty number and pass it to you. If you're still unhappy after they visit you, they should be able to replace it with a new one.

I'm just at work at the moment but let me know later how I can help :)

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Comments

        • Serathis on 10/09/2019 - 08:20
          +10

          why did you say it's new when it's not?

          • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 13:24
            -5

            @Serathis: As I said in the comments and description it sat in the box for over a year. The laptop is 17 inches and I just stuck with my 15 inch one. So yes it's had probably a couple of hours of use (windows update and registering warranty).

            I also sent the invoice before sale and emails stating Dec 2017 on invoice.

            Also provided photos with it turned on. I tested it to make sure it worked and setup the warranty but i believe it's still new condition just not brand new..I mean I emailed the buyer before he pay me back he invoice and showed him exactly how and when I got it.

            There's no option to say as new.

            Happy to take feedback though.

            • rave75 on 10/09/2019 - 13:58
              +3

              @AussieMark: So you are saying you bought a $2k+ laptop and let it sit for over a year untouched and only used it recently before selling it to do windows update and registering the warranty? Quite hard to believe tbh.

              I think the buyer was expecting a new condition (no sign of use) from a 1.5 year old laptop. He did mention some of the keys show a clear sign of usage (I haven't see the photos though). Couldn't sleep when the laptop is turned off seems exaggerated though. I guess he thinks the laptop as a bad "Omen".

              Because the right option is to mark it as "used". If you did that, I am pretty sure paypal will side with you.

              • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 15:32

                @rave75: Hah it's true. I was in Hong Kong but also promised myself I wouldn't use the laptop until I got a new job lol

                It's a huge huge laptop. So too heavy to actually carry around.

                HP would have actually replaced it for him I have their contact details.

                • rave75 on 10/09/2019 - 15:36
                  +3

                  @AussieMark: Then isn't it better for you to take back the laptop, replace it with a new one (most of the time they replace it with a refurbished unit I think, especially after a year). Then you can advertise the replacement as new never used and possibly charge more than $1600?

              • jeozb on 10/09/2019 - 18:44
                +2

                @rave75:

                Couldn't sleep when the laptop is turned off seems exaggerated though. I guess he thinks the laptop as a bad "Omen".

                šŸ˜‚šŸ‘

    • idonotknowwhy on 10/09/2019 - 11:52
      +3

      As always, Australia Post wins :(

    • nith265 on 10/09/2019 - 13:42
      +9

      What does the community gain from this?? Nothing.

      Apart from the fun and games of reading it all, there are the following lessons

      For sellers:

      Donā€™t craft the words of an advert to heavily convey the impression that something is new when in reality itā€™s 6 months old (putting it back in the box for 12 months doesnā€™t subtract those 6 months and make it new again).

      Specifically do not use these terms:

      • …(New) & Extended Warranty…
      • ā€¦never actually got around to using itā€¦
      • ā€¦ as you can see it has never been usedā€¦

      For buyers:

      If youā€™re buying a $1600 laptop privately while reserving the right to claim a refund via PayPal protection donā€™t leave the package unopened for 16 days.

      It basic politeness to let the seller know immediately upon receiving it that you have an issue. They cant rationalise the cost and hassle of a return the same a way a business might. It also removes the question of how much wear and tear you've added to it over those 16 days.

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 15:33
        +2

        Thanks just to be clear he had it for Almost 30 days before lodging the dispute but point taken on my end

  • coolroy on 10/09/2019 - 13:06
    +3

    Sounds like the buyer is dishonest imho.
    First off, if a normaly honest person opened a laptop on delivery & noted excess usage for example due to dirt/human hair/debris on keyboard they would take photos of this as evidence of its true condition as received & immeadiately dispute the transaction.
    Looks very much like buyers remorse…especially when the item was well priced & had a genuine HP onsite warranty (worth atleast an additional $300 on normal purchase price).Which this buyer did not want to utilise.
    The buyer also stated that the fan did not become noisy until after he installed various software, that meant that laptop did operate correctly at point of delivery!
    I very much doubt the seller has done anything wrong in the transaction listed above.
    Cant same the same for the buyer…

    • lainey13 on 10/09/2019 - 16:33
      +2

      The lack of pictures of wear/hair/dust is also causing me to lean away from the buyer (NOT towards the seller necessarily). Why wouldn't you take a photo of that if that's how you found your 'kinda new-ish not really' expensive laptop?

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 16:42
    +11

    @shungyiu I could feel something very negative from the laptop and I developed a massive headache overnight and could not sleep

    Everyone missed the juiciest comment in this thread

    https://imgur.com/a/7vJ9kH7

    I enjoyed Shung's longwinded post, but essentially their reasons didn't have much weight.

    Some sort of quasi electromagnetic hypersensitivity… (lol)
    A few "hairs"
    A discontinued model of a laptop sitting in a box for a year or so looked like it had been used "for a week"
    A laptop with a high powered gaming GPU was "loud"

    Shung's SMSs also weirdly focus on the sentence "never been used" when the very following sentence indicates it had clearly been used, again, lol.

    Anyhoo. Nice popcorn munching thread here.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 17:28
      +1

      Yes he just keeps texting me asking the definition of new…. And he zoomed in on the words never been used and cropped out everything and sent to PayPal lol

  • FeZZa21 on 10/09/2019 - 17:08
    +6

    whether the laptop is new or used, hairy or shaven. when the buyer is not happy with it and is offering to send it back and cover the cost, the seller should refund and not keep insisting on getting HP to fix/replace it instead. if the seller wants it fixed so much they should do it themselves and then try selling it again, with a more accurate description.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 18:08
      +3

      There is physically nothing to fix. 1070s in a laptop chassis are not quiet.

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 18:15

        Yeah to be fair you can turn the GeForce on and off I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) but you're right

        A GeForce 1070 laptop 17 inch isn't exactly going to be super quiet. But I wasn't using it in high performance mode so I didn't actually notice when I used it. Seemed fine to me.. but maybe late at night when when everyone silent it's more noticeable?

    • echineon on 12/09/2019 - 01:52
      +1

      well, yes and no. Any individual sale over the net normally I'd say should just offer maximum of 7 days DOA. If buyer did not raise any issue within that 7 days I'm not gonna sit on the money when I need to utilise the cash. Sorry, 7 days passed, it's your responsibility now IDGAF. Seller clearly provided receipt, 7 days passed, buyer deal with it.

  • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 17:31

    Haha you guys are entertaining me

    I've stopped calling PayPal daily and feel much better šŸ˜‚šŸ¤”.

    I'm happy to do the 25% restocking fee someone suggested.

    I also paid for the register post and insurance when sending the laptop.

  • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 18:16
    -4

    Also I assume the disclaimer ozbargain has in classifieds cannot help me here?

  • moo on 10/09/2019 - 19:12

    So… whatā€™s the outcome?

    • muncan on 10/09/2019 - 19:17

      OP may want to abort & close this thread.

      • moo on 10/09/2019 - 19:20

        The abort button is broken….bZZzzzt

        • AussieMark on 23/10/2019 - 14:28

          Haha thanks guys final update today. See end of thread

  • coolroy on 10/09/2019 - 19:22
    +5

    The outcome unfortunately (looking at this logically) is that the Buyer wasnt honest either with paypal or the seller but will get his money back & the honest seller got screwed….Never ever use paypal to sell is the most obvious outcome!

  • Miss B on 10/09/2019 - 19:31
    +1

    Seriously, as someone else mentioned, just get the new laptop from HP and sell it as brand new in box. Problem solved. Whoever's at fault, and it sounds like you both share some responsibility, surely it's better to just move on.

    • rompastompa on 10/09/2019 - 20:28
      +1

      As much as OP promised a brand new replacement laptop from HP, I highly doubt HP will just replace it unless the fan is caused by a faulty mainboard rather than just a noisy high speed fan.. Even mainboards are simple enough for a technician to replace without having to replace the whole unit (unless the warranty says otherwise).

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 20:41
        +1

        Hah that's hp words not mine but yeah I'm sure they would run a test first. I'll see :)

        Thanks for your post

  • Takeonme on 10/09/2019 - 20:22
    +2

    This one is nearly as good as the guy that bought a trailer to reserve a parking spot

  • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 20:25
    +17

    "Believe it or not, even after turning the laptop off, I could feel something very negative from the laptop and I developed a massive headache overnight and could not sleep, until I moved the laptop out of my room the next day."

    Come on surely this shows it's nothing to do with the newness of the laptop. You're talking about Feng Shui or something

  • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 20:25

    Well I have two options.

    I wait and see… And may or may not win… I believe he already sent it back to me

    Or option 2) which I assume I can only do before they make a judgement is offer a 25% restocking fee

  • gr8mind on 10/09/2019 - 20:44
    +8

    Unsure. But I find it hard to believe it took nearly a month before the buyer checked the laptop, it takes all of a few minutes, no one is that busy. You just paid $1600 for a laptop, wouldnā€™t you want to check itā€™s condition and make sure you werenā€™t sent a lump of concrete.

    Seller has also added some details since original post, so I think we have a double shenanigans situation.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 21:24

      Haha well to be fair I made so many omen posts make sure you're viewing the right one he bought from

      Thanks for your post! Appreciate everyone's input and feedback

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 10/09/2019 - 21:12
    +14

    My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.'. Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because this thread gave me cancer anyway.

    • muncan on 10/09/2019 - 21:22
      +3

      1 upvote = 1 prayer

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 23:05

      sorry if my thread caused you some pain/discomfort :p

  • shungyiu on 10/09/2019 - 21:23
    -45

    This is a reflection on myself and on the event, also a summary.

    Gratitude

    Thank you all for your comments, especially those who read and analyse all the material before making a comment, I am really grateful for your effort in trying to be unbiased and being genuine in trying to help us find a solution.

    How I could've done better
    • Communicate plenty and ask questions before the transaction and not just base on what was written in the item description;
    • Opened and examined the computer once it had been delivered;
    • Do not try to fix up a mess, wait, stop and think what's the right move (by taking photos etc).
    What I think I've done well
    • I have been telling the truth and have not exaggerated or twisted anything (I cited my negative feeling towards the laptop as one of the reasons that I felt the laptop did not work for me, I did not cite it for a Paypal claim, so what's the issue with a personal experience?);
    • I have not tried to portray Mark as a bad person;
    • I have not tried to portray myself as being righteous;
    • I have answered every question that is relevant and I have not evaded any queries.
    What I am disappointed at
    • Some of us are jumping to conclusions and commented without understanding the whole situation;
    • Mark, the seller, have been having opinions and quoting myself and Paypal on the matter without ever providing any documents or records;
    • Mark, the seller, like some of us mentioned, has been evading the question of a simple yes or no on whether the laptop had been used. Instead, he keeps on distracting the focus away from the question by:

    i. repeatedly saying I can go to HP for warranty and accuse me of being a liar. Would I have repeatedly asked the question if he stopped the attacks and answer the question? Definitely no.

    ii. repeatedly exaggerating that I kept the laptop for almost 30 days before lodging a claim - 9 Aug laptop arrived - 28 Aug claim lodged. 28-9=?

    iii. repeatedly citing irrelevant things, on many occasions are twisting/exaggerating or to imply something for whatever reasons:
    - I used my parent's Paypal;
    - I won't respond;
    - I repeatedly text him;
    - I finally texted him but was not very friendly(Pls let me know how I could be more friendly?); https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR
    - I zoomed in on text message and cropped out everything and sent to Paypal;
    - I said he promised an unopened brand new laptop etc.

    iv. repeatedly accused me of lying but cannot provide any evidence to back that statement up. What would be closer to lying and dishonesty? Upselling an item by providing a false description or being open by providing correspondences and SMS in writing?

    At the end of the day
    Doesn't the buyer have a right to return a purchase should he/she found unsuitable?

    Feel free to check his listing again on whether he says "No returns/Non-refundable" or listed any related terms or conditions that do not permit a return. If Mark had included that clause in his listing, would I had proceeded with the purchase? Definitely not.
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/474614

    Also, isn't that why people use Paypal? In Mark's words - "funny thing is" I offered PayID (bank transfer) but Mark insisted on Paypal instead. Linking a bank account to Paypal would take days, I did not have a bank linked so I had to use a credit card.
    And not only did I not tear up any attached labels/tags, but I also cleaned up the keyboard for him - I actually left the item in better condition?

    By the way
    • All speculations in the thread have been a bit wild. i.e. I saw the HP Omen from the price error deal before Mark's listing.
    • I have not purchased or am intending to get a new laptop any time soon, I simply don't have the energy or time at the moment.
    • As a fellow ozbargainer points out, nobody wins here, I paid $23 extras for shipping because Mark regretted insisting on Paypal. After PayPal instructed me to send the item back I paid another extra $56 for return shipping, losing a total of approx. $79 for nothing. What for?
    • Photo of the dirt marks on the gaming keys (note the S key)
      https://ibb.co/QvqgWwQ
      Please bear in mind I mentioned about cleaning it up on impulse. Yes, I did not think it through, I do not have evidence to back up my statement but does not mean I am dishonest or lying.
    • As Mark mentioned, our dispute is currently under review again.

    However, all these are irrelevant. The only thing relevant is the sentence in bold in my opinion.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 21:40
      +9

      Thanks for a well written reply.

      I cannot provide any of the call recordings from paypal or access anything you sent them so I am assuming they are being truthful on the phone but I have got very replies and answers from each person I speak to…like I said they told me you sent a photo of the 4 keys and that was your proof / complaint.

      I am wrong on the 30 day comment. I was going off aug 3rd payment but didn't factor in the shipping time.

      I have answered the question quite a few times on new vs sealed. Scroll up.

      I did contact you aug 31st via text seeing if I could do anything to help while PayPal does a review. You didn't reply. Happy to provide screenshot as proof

      My question is would you accept a refund as some suggested less a restocking fee of 25%?

    • gr8mind on 10/09/2019 - 21:46
      +9

      To answer your sentence in bold, no, Australian Consumer Law does not apply when a consumer buys from a private seller (and the item is not sold in the course of their business). Buyer beware.

      Solution? negotiate with seller, do a charge back, use PayPal, inspect before purchase etc.

      • shungyiu on 11/09/2019 - 06:29
        -5

        Note taken. Thank you for your clarification.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/09/2019 - 09:29
          +21

          I hope you took down the note with a pad and pen. Don't want you getting a headache, lol.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/09/2019 - 21:50
      +10

      Photo of the dirt marks on the gaming keys (note the S key)
      https://ibb.co/QvqgWwQ

      …that's it?

      The only thing relevant is the sentence in bold in my opinion.
      Doesn't the buyer have a right to return a purchase should he/she found unsuitable?

      No.

      I have been telling the truth and have not exaggerated or twisted anything

      You claimed to have some sort of electromagnetic hypersensitivity induced headaches lol.

      has been evading the question of a simple yes or no on whether the laptop had been used.

      Are you serious? The ad clearly said he had set it up and showed an image of the laptop turned on….

    • cat4u on 10/09/2019 - 22:07
      +9

      SHUNG (the ā€œbuyerā€) Your txt messages between the seller is disgusting.

      Do the world a favour, dont buy online. Period.

      Go pay full price at the store, and stop ripping people off.

      U didnt even give the seller a chance to respond to the paypal dispute, and then u had the audacity to laugh at him.

      Absolutely appalling.

    • brendanm on 10/09/2019 - 22:41
      +2

      Not exaggerated? Come on now. I don't believe the seller that he never used it in a year and a half, but you said that there was a "bad feeling" from the laptop untill you removed it from the room. This is simply nonsense.

      You have your money, seller has his laptop, maybe he will list it as used this time, and you won't buy things that are obviously used even if it says new.

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 23:01

        hi Brendanm, I know it's a bit hard to believe but dont think I can prove it in this instance… Although - do note the buyer is saying the laptop has been used for 1 week based on the condition of the laptop (so not sure if that helps at all)

    • paraneoplastic on 10/09/2019 - 22:59
      +12

      No the buyer doesn't have the right to return an item found unsuitable.

      You should check what the definition of unsuitable is. We can define the laptops function is to work as a media deliverance device and a work platform. Irrespective of the noise it produces, as long as it can do this, the item is suitable.

      ACL does NOT apply to 2nd hand goods OR private sales. You DID NOT buy from an ABN listed buisness which needs to abide by the ACL.

      You do NOT need to state no returns/non-refundable on a listing, it is implied.

      It's clear that you are young and haven't gotten a grasp of ACL which you are trying to claim in your defence. Which is fine, but in the future be wary and consider your purchases in more depth before purchasing.

      Also… getting a headache from the fan noise? Sounds very psychosomatic to me….

    • HighAndDry on 12/09/2019 - 09:49
      +4

      Doesn't the buyer have a right to return a purchase should he/she found unsuitable?

      No. Jesus (profanity) dude, you've been on this site how long and you're now trying to pretend you don't know how private sales work? Nah. Flagging you as a (profanity).

  • emoticon on 10/09/2019 - 21:49
    +26

    Okay read in detail both OP and Shungyiuā€™s arguments.

    Itā€™s clear OP poorly worded his ad description and included marketing buzz words like ā€˜newā€™ and ā€˜never usedā€™ where clearly the laptop had been used. 100% done to make his ad more appealing -a common, but shitty ā€˜tacticā€™ with online ads (gumtree/Ebay)

    Pictures and the rest of the description confirm the laptop had been used/tested.

    Any reasonable person would understand that it was not new and had been used, pictures with the laptop switched on with OPā€™s full name/profile shouldā€™ve been a big clue.

    If still unsure, Shung or anyone purchasing a high value item shouldā€™ve messaged to confirm.

    Now, although OP was a bit iffy with his marketing, with the evidence/arguments provided I am still siding with him.

    Shung is clearly trying to exploit the poor wording of the ad in order to receive a refund, perhaps because of a change of mind or buyers remorse. Hereā€™s why I think that:

    Shung delayed in reporting any issues by nearly a month and even then went straight to PayPal instead of contacting the seller to resolve any issues. Especially with the on-site warranty/replacement the laptop apparently has.

    I would be contacting the seller and providing proof so that they can start the replacement process. If the warranty didnā€™t pan out, thatā€™s when Iā€™d dispute via PayPal.

    If there were genuine issues, having it fixed or replaced onsite at no cost is a no-brainer - especially if thereā€™s a high chance you might receive a brand new model, perhaps even an upgraded version considering the laptop was already nearly 2 years old. Thereā€™s a chance youā€™ll get the newer version due to HP no longer stocking the old one.

    In his text messages to OP, Shung via text messages was firmly trying to argue that the laptop shouldā€™ve been brand new when there is evidence to the contrary in the original ad. Perhaps playing dumb or extremely oblivious.

    Shung shouldā€™ve known that every gaming laptop is going to run loud and have fans blasting away. I have an Aorus x5 and itā€™s loud as heck, itā€™s comparable to the Omen with similar retail price.

    Shungā€™s arguments are too weak and flimsy, bad vibes and sudden ā€˜headachesā€™ arenā€™t reasons to refund. If he did have a headache, it couldā€™ve been caused by a number of things, gaming laptop fans are loud but they arenā€™t deafening and definitely shouldnā€™t cause ear damage or headaches - either Shung is exaggerating/lying or has an undiagnosed medical condition. (There was no mention of coil whine, just loud exhaust fans)

    His argument that going through PayPal first instead of HP/OP was only to save time is most likely a lie or highly/naively optimistic. If going through HPā€™s warranty route, the issue wouldā€™ve been resolved already vs the still on-going dispute.

    Shung had every opportunity to resolve any perceived issues by contacting OP and HP first but as he stated, was set on getting his money back. I find this a bit unreasonable especially since the screenshot of their SMS conversation, which Shung himself posted - shows that OP was very communicative and willing to help arrange the technician/replacement.

    Shungā€™s SMS replies were very deflective/defensive and avoided answering most of OPā€™s questions.

    Just from what evidence/arguments were given I would not trust Shung with a high value sale.

    If this were a small claims court, Iā€™d rule in favour of OP.

    Even though OPā€™s ad was slightly misleading and contradictory, his version of the truth seems more plausible and how he attempted to resolve any issues was more than reasonable. Itā€™s more than likely Shung is trying to reneg on the sale by blaming the poor wording in the ad - change of mind or buyers remorse are likely reasons, maybe he saw the previous HP Omen deal on Ozbargain and regretted his purchase, who knows.

    If I was Judge Judy, Iā€™d scold OP first for his marketing and choice of words but would ultimately give him the win.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 22:00
      +7

      I guess that's the thing if HP didn't do everything Shung wanted I would have sorted it out but it's a bit frustrating having on site warranty and he didn't even want to call them saying he's too busy with studies. Just wish we could have explored that option first to know where we stand. I said I'd call them and.send them to his house too haha (no joke).

      We literally spent 4 hours each sorting this out lol but obviously hindsight is different

      Lol at your judge Judy comment hahaha.. comment of the day.

      Text (can screenshot.if necessary): 31st aug Thanks for letting me know Shung. I've escalated your email to PayPal but it will take them a month to review. Let me know if you'd like me to call HP this week and find out our options.

      The way the warranty works is that they will send someone to your house or business to look at the laptop. Given you've initiated a PayPal dispute I'm not obliged to do anything until they make a decision Oct 3rd but… Happy to assist to try to resolve it so we are both happy with the outcome :).

      He never replied

      • emoticon on 10/09/2019 - 22:39
        +5

        Judge Judy, she can be harsh but always true/fair.

        Iā€™m sorry you had a bad selling experience. I sold my IPhone X ($1000) to another Ozbargainer interstate exactly a year ago and everything went smoothly. So not everyone on this site is dodgy.

        If a person tells you they had to move a switched-off inanimate object to another room because they got evil/bad feelings from it - they probably wonā€™t be very reasonable when it comes to resolving a dispute - so donā€™t blame yourself, you were more than reasonable.

        Obvious excuses are obvious. Students do not study 24/7, what student canā€™t spare a couple of hours, didnā€™t even need to leave the house and Iā€™m sure HP would have scheduled a time so you know when to be home.

    • cat4u on 10/09/2019 - 22:04
      +4

      SHUNG (the ā€œbuyerā€) Your txt messages between the seller is disgusting.

      Do the world a favour, dont buy online. Period.

      Go pay full price at the store, and stop ripping people off.

      U didnt even give the seller a chance to respond to the paypal dispute, and then u had the audacity to laugh at him.

      Absolutely appalling.

  • cat4u on 10/09/2019 - 22:02
    +8

    Shung is disgraceful. Hes very cunning.

    Read his txt messages, itā€™s disgusting.

  • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 22:06
    +14

    Bit disappointed he has posted my full name to ozbargain… I've kept his full name and address private out of respect

    • SnoozeAndLose on 10/09/2019 - 22:07
      +1

      time to show his name now

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 23:02
        +18

        sorry, even if he posts my details I dont think it's right to do the same.

    • peco on 10/09/2019 - 23:38
      +9

      uh, the pictures you posted on your listing for the laptop have your full name in one of them.

      • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 00:09

        yeah if you zoom in on one of the photos but it's not that obvious and I was going to remove that photo later :p

    • ssquid on 11/09/2019 - 00:10
      +4

      You outed yourself in the photos on your ads.

  • cat4u on 10/09/2019 - 22:10
    +7

    I read the posts, and shungs messages between the seller. This ā€œshungā€ really got on my nerve. Had to reset my password just to login to comment!

    SHUNG you owe the seller an apology! And pay his damn paypal fees

    Anyone whos wondering why i am so damn upset, read the txt messages between him & the seller.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 22:12
      +1

      Haha now you know how I feel šŸ˜‚šŸ˜­.

      https://ibb.co/3pmzcDR

      Maybe I could have handled better but I thought I was being reasonable

      • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 22:21
        +2

        One thing that worries me is the PayPal is in his dad's name..

        The PayPal email linked.to the PayPal account doesn't match the account name at all or even remotely (it's a different name completely).

        I maybe being paranoid but I think I better check the SSD and components if it comes back to.make sure.

        When I looked.up the address on Google maps I wasn't sure if it was a real address as it's a huge mansion… (No judgement but just trying to connect all the different pieces of information)

        • cat4u on 10/09/2019 - 22:24
          +4

          Chinese kid with rich parents.

          You can tell by the txt messages that he thinks he is ā€œaboveā€ people.

          • centrelink on 13/09/2019 - 17:12
            +1

            @cat4u: Can you quote some? I canā€™t seem to find statement where he acts like that.

  • Plug on 10/09/2019 - 22:25
    +2

    Who bought it? Username, real name etc. Let us know who to avoid.

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 23:08

      Let me think about it but I don't feel right posting his name or details.

      • cat4u on 11/09/2019 - 08:16
        +2

        U totally should. So we can ALL avoid a buyer like him

        • gimme on 13/09/2019 - 17:28
          +1

          you have a higher chance of getting run over by a plane. easiest way to avoid buyers like him is NOT to accept Paypal.

  • richmond12 on 10/09/2019 - 23:58
    +6

    This thread is a rollcoaster, like a judge judy court case!

    I keep flipping one side to the other… cant decide! Tomorrow i may change..

    • AussieMark on 10/09/2019 - 23:59
      +1

      haha who's side are you on today.

  • timetoquit on 11/09/2019 - 00:28
    +1

    The pictures on your original ad shows images of the laptop. To me, the keyboard looks really dirty/oily for only 2 hours or so of use. Especially on the the first picture. The mousepad area also looks a bit dirty but that could just be the design/material. It does look very used and I would not accept it as being new.

    I'm calling a little BS on the headache thing though, I think when you realised what you recieved and what you thought you were going to receive and the reality of the situation.

    Still leaning towards the buyer side at this stage. I don't think the buyer was 'disgusting' as someome mentioned earlier, he may have sounded firm but kept his emotions in check, except a for a couple cheeky remarks. It's always hard to convey a persons true response via messages, either one of you should have called each other and discussed the issue!

    Good luck boys, I think you're both fairly level headed enough to work it out!

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/09/2019 - 09:19
      +8

      And that's what the images on the original ad are for, to show the condition at the time of sale. You buy knowing what you see is what you get.

      It's pretty clear Shung has had buyers remorse after the fact. The dramatic "unbearable" headaches preventing sleep, the "stress" from giving the keyboard a wipe, the "deafening" video card, it's all over dramatic. There was no fault with the machine.

      Coupled with the fact Shung is young, and has clearly no idea (based on his last longwinded post) I feel sorry for OP here. Enormous waste of time when you just want to sell an item.

  • GregMonarch on 11/09/2019 - 02:31
    +3

    I'd like to know why anyone thinks HP would swap a 1.5 year old laptop because someone says it's dirty and thinks the fan is loud. Surely they'd say, "That's how they all sound and you've had it for 18 months - didn't you realise a little sooner!?" and: "Here's some Windex and a rag - cya later."

    I can't imagine them handing over new laptops so easily. But if they do, please let me know… So if I ever buy a brand new one, I know HP is where I can get a replacement every 18 months because I was too lazy to dust the house. ;-p

    • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 07:03
      +1

      They messed up the warranty initially when activated it so perhaps just to keep my happy they said they would swap out for a brand new laptop if any issues but perhaps it was just sweet words šŸ˜‚

      • GregMonarch on 11/09/2019 - 21:24

        Hm, ok - pity. (I could have filed that one away for the future.)

  • shungyiu on 11/09/2019 - 06:24
    -8

    Dear Moderator,
    This is an updated screenshot without Mark's last name, can you help replace the links in my comments with this one, please?

    https://ibb.co/m9RVLJY

    My apology to Mark for not blurring your last name. Your full name is on one of your photos in your laptop's listing but I was not being sensitive enough, my bad.

    • cat4u on 11/09/2019 - 08:12
      +4

      Will you also apologise to the seller fo other things? Like blaming ur headache on laptop. Lol.
      And you should pay their paypal fees as well.

      I feel ur only apologising for putting his name online after the seller said he might upload ur name/u got backlash from people uploading the sellers name.

      Again, very cunning.

    • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 08:27
      +6

      Shung In your other post you said I should have given a disclaimer in my post.

      This is the disclaimer included in every sale on ozbargain:

      Classifieds is strictly for personal use between members only, and members do so at their own risk. OzBargain does not offer buyer protection or facilitate payments, and will take no responsibility for any transactions or disputes that occur

      • Pantagonist on 11/09/2019 - 13:39
        +4

        This is the disclaimer included in every sale on ozbargain:

        OzBargain's policies have nothing to do with PayPal's policies.

        If you'd accepted a PayID transfer for the cost of the laptop (like you appear to have done for the postage costs) you wouldn't be in the situation you currently find yourself in.

        PayPal will decide the case based on their own policies; end of story. No amount of public shaming of the buyer will change that.

        The more I read, the more I feel like both parties have engaged in misleading conduct to a certain degree. Better to just walk away, accept the return of the laptop, cop the fees and try to sell it again.

        The next time:

        • Don't accept PayPal unless it's a family & friends transfer or initiated through Gumtree.

        • Don't make warranty claims about what HP will do if there's an issue when you have no control over what decisions they might make and you're not an approved reseller of their products.

        • Don't advertise something as "new" if it isn't actually new. "As new", "used once" etc. would be more truthful.

        • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 21:35
          +1

          I'm not shaming him he asked me to say no refunds or add a disclaimer

          I agree with your as new statement. Ozbargain doesn't let you put an item as new but I should have written it in the title

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/09/2019 - 09:23
      +15

      Shung, are you that inept you don't even know how to delete an imgbb upload? I thought you were extensive "previous experience" (as you claimed) with technology?

      Even if you uploaded as Guest, you'll still be able to delete it

      https://ibb.co/kSW5Fwg

      Watch when I magically delete this image tomorrow.

    • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 11/09/2019 - 15:23
      +10

      Shung you are dodgy af. Absolute disgrace!

      Hope karma hits you bad.

  • diddy50 on 11/09/2019 - 10:50
    +9

    This sucks. Shung sucks

  • aligind4h0us3 on 11/09/2019 - 11:32
    +8

    What a piece of work this kid is.

  • Pricebeat on 11/09/2019 - 12:26
    +6

    Reading from the texts, I think there should be a walk of shame for Shung.

    Someone should buy from his listing with paypal and then start a dispute to give him taste of his own medication

  • Payne on 11/09/2019 - 12:44

    This thread is like watching two kids argue with a parent that the other one started the fight, all the while knowing that they are both in the wrong.

    Where's the OzBargain Naughty Corner?

    • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 13:36
      +1

      Haha I admit I share some of the blame with some of the wording I used and copied and pasted from my older listings

      Reading some of the comments are entertaining though

  • Serathis on 11/09/2019 - 14:06
    +8

    Well, got to say thanks for sharing Mark, at least now some of us would know to avoid Paypal as a seller and opt for bank transfer instead ;)

    • cheng2008 on 11/09/2019 - 20:36

      Problem is, for something that is being posted it's too dangerous to send a bank transfer as a buyer. I don't think any buyer would opt for it.

    • Ughhh on 11/09/2019 - 20:42

      at least now some of us would know to avoid Paypal as a seller and opt for bank transfer instead ;)

      90% of Gumtree Paypal related issues on forums are exactly like this. People have been saying Cash on pick up only on Gumtree for agessss.

  • OpenAI on 11/09/2019 - 15:23
    +3

    I am on the fence on this one. OP clearly misrepresented the product and buyer seemed to have buyer's remorse.

    Fair result = refund and resell both have lost money on postage and time.

    • cheng2008 on 11/09/2019 - 20:38

      I agree with the proposed solution. OP I don't think you stated what kind of outcome you wanted? Did you want him to keep the laptop and you your $1600?

    • Seedy seed on 11/09/2019 - 20:56

      Less a $200 restocking fee.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/09/2019 - 12:30
      +1

      There was no misrepresentation. Poorly worded sentence, yes. But the images on the ad, and the very following sentence which contradicted and clarified the poorly worded sentence before it made it perfectly clear the item had been used. A 10 second google was have also confirmed the model is a discontinued model and clearly not a new release.

  • Faulty on 11/09/2019 - 19:13
    +14

    Laptop fan causes headaches? Shungyiu, stock up on some Panamax (100 tablets for $0.69) https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/480817. Also suitable to cure your headache from buyers remorse. Disgracefuly buyer behaviour man.

  • Miss B on 11/09/2019 - 19:38
    +11

    Not sure why so many people support the seller who has admitted they were misleading in their ad. Buyer should get a refund, no question. Buyer seems like they don't like confrontation, which is probably why it took them 19 days (not 30) to contact the seller after they'd gotten the product that was not as described. The seller is still lying when they say HP will just replace the laptop too, otherwise why did they not get the replacement which they could have sold as brand new in box without lying? How many of you would really buy from this seller?

    Even if the buyer completely made up the stuff about the headaches, the item was not as described, the seller kept avoiding the questions about how much the laptop had been used and I can see why it got to the point where the buyer found it amusing.

    I probably wouldn't buy from or sell to either, but the seller was the one responsible for the mess they're in now.

    Also if seller is so worried about their name being known, why put it so prominently in the OP?

    • Seedy seed on 11/09/2019 - 20:59
      +1

      1. These threads are a gift to our community.

      2. id buy off neither both shifty as (profanity).

      3. Buyer should get $0 refund, second hand goods are purchased as is, dont like the risk of liers, buy offline.

      • Miss B on 11/09/2019 - 21:13
        +7

        The seller doesn't get to lie just because it's secondhand. They bear the greater responsibility by being misleading in the first place. Therefore if I have to pick between the seller and the buyer having their way, I'd absolutely pick the buyer. If buyer had come and done a post about the laptop and seller hadn't said anything then sure, I'd be thinking tough shit for the buyer. But the seller came here whining about a buyer wanting their money back even though they knew their ad was misleading when they sold it. They also listed it as new.

        • AussieMark on 11/09/2019 - 21:41
          +1

          Well you're entitled to disagree but I sent emails with the invoice showing Dec 2017 and I clearly stated it had been tested but sat unused for a long time.

          I haven't posted all the info and texts and emails and attachments but happy to.

          • Seedy seed on 12/09/2019 - 07:49

            @AussieMark: 6 months use is abit more then a test šŸ˜‚. But goods sold second hand come as is.

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