Computer Retailer - Ignoring ACL?

C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 15:55
Last edited 25/09/2019 - 16:21

In March 2017 I bought an ASUS laptop from [redacted] - it has worked without issues until this weekend when I went to turn it on and there was no display at all. I tried the usual reset advice but nothing has worked - so I emailed the retailer asking for a repair.

They informed me it was outside warranty so they'd have to send it to ASUS for out of warranty repairs (which I knew would be the case), but they then said I'd have to pay for parts.

Under ACL:
"Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:
safe, lasting, with no faults, look acceptable, do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.
Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost."

Am I right to assume that given I spent $1400 on this laptop, and I have owned it for a little over 2 years, it would still be reasonable to expect it to be working? The likely parts that are broken are either the motherboard or LCD. If I was denied because the trackpad or keyboard were broken, or I had physically damaged the laptop I could understand - but given the parts are non-moving, and they usually last much much longer than this - I'd expect it to be covered under ACL.

I told the retailer this, but they remained firm on their position of "it's out of warranty so we can't do anything".

Has anyone else had similar experiences? Am I right to assert that I have more than one year warranty under ACL?

Thanks

Computing

Comments

  • HighAndDry on 25/09/2019 - 16:01

    The likely parts that are broken are either the motherboard or LCD.

    Or it could be the ribbon cable between the two which would be a moving part, and so…

    but given the parts are non-moving, and they usually last much much longer than this - I'd expect it to be covered under ACL.

    Would your opinion change?

    • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:03

      Would your opinion change?

      What?

      • HighAndDry on 25/09/2019 - 16:05

        You said you'd expect the ACL to still apply because the motherboard and LCD are non moving parts. The converse would mean you'd accept the ACL wouldn't apply if it was a moving part that failed.

        It could be the monitor ribbon cable, a moving part, that failed. Would you accept it as being out of ACL then?

        Personally it's on the edge. It's been two and a half years, which while I'd still expect a laptop to work, I'd also understand if it had issues. And if one of those issues killed the monitor, well…

        • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:25

          You make a good point. I have already tried hooking it up to a monitor though and it still has no output. If the ribbon was broken the motherboard should still be able to provide output to an external monitor

          • HighAndDry on 25/09/2019 - 16:34

            @C0nn0r42: Ah true. That's probably a mobo/gpu issue then. Does it post and turn on at all?

            • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:36

              @HighAndDry: It turns on, fans spin, lights come on. Just no display output at all

              • HighAndDry on 25/09/2019 - 16:37

                @C0nn0r42: Sounds like a gpu issue. I read below - ASUS is willing to have a look at it? If so, try that first.

    • HeWhoKnows on 26/09/2019 - 16:53

      You have no idea what caused the failure hence your conclusion is totally unfounded and misleading to OP.

      • HighAndDry on 26/09/2019 - 17:00
        +2

        I didn't posit a conclusion. My point is the same as yours: OP didn't know that it was a non moving part that failed, but predicated the post on that assumption.

  • spackbace on 25/09/2019 - 16:11
    -3

    From what I've found online, it came with a 1yr warranty, depending on model, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Yours is 2 years 6 months ie 2.5 years (not "a little" over 2 years).

    18 months outside warranty…? Yeah ACL can't help you there

    I have referred the matter to the Department of Commerce.

    That, and the fact you've decided to name and shame, also tell me you didn't approach this rationally. I'm willing to bet you also haven't spoken to Asus's warranty department either, to seek clarification.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/485713/revisions#1008718vs…

    Lol either you have or you haven't, don't run and hide now.

    • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:29
      +1

      You're right, the DoC part was probably irrelevant. I will also remove the store name

      My issue is that the store seems to have completely ignored "Warranties are separate from your automatic consumer guarantees."

      Would it not be reasonable to expect a laptop to remain functioning for at least 2-3 years? They're not disposable items. ASUS has offered to asses it to determine the fault.

      They said:
      " We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused. You may refer to your retailer for further assistance.

      However, we can book the device in for In-Warranty Assessment under Australian Consumer Law (ACL).
      Please be aware that this is not a guarantee of a free repair."

      • spackbace on 25/09/2019 - 16:32
        +1

        The store is an intermediary. They can shout and bark to Asus just as much as you about ACL, but at the end of the day it's a $1400, 2.5yo laptop. There's a certain time where it's not covered by warranty and no, no one else would expect that to be 5 years. You're crazy if you think a computer based product, housed in a relatively small area, would be warranted for such a long time.

        Self-diagnose or get someone to open it up and find out what's going on, and make a call from there.

        Asus could find something wrong, some condition the laptop was subjected to (including moisture, dirt, dust etc), and they'll still find reason not to repair it. Wouldn't take much to say there was too much dust in it or something, if you weren't rigorous with your cleaning.

        • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:38

          Self-diagnose or get someone to open it up and find out what's going on, and make a call from there.

          That's what I've done. I'd expect a motherboard to function for at least 2-3 years. Yes I'm probably pushing it. And if like you say, ASUS turns around and says "damaged by not cleaning", then I'll take that and move on.

        • Antares on 25/09/2019 - 17:50
          +6

          I disagree with both of your posts here.
          Your first post says because it's 18 months outside of manufacturer's warranty ACL won't help, but ACL is specifically designed to help things outside of standard warranty.

          Your second post states that the store is an intermediary. This is also specifically against the ACL. The ACL states that both the store AND the manufacturer are both responsible for products they sell. It is the consumer's choice if they want to go through the store they purchased it from, or directly to the manufacturer. Both parties are equally responsible for products they sell.

          Finally, to everyone posting here, choice has posted expected life of electrical products here https://www.choice.com.au/about-us/media-releases/2018/appli…
          Which states that the life expectancy of a cheap laptop is 4 years, mid-range is 6 years and high end is 8 years.

          2.5 years is not even close for a $1400 laptop. No one buys a $1400 laptop and thinks "This will last me the next 2 years and then I'll replace".

          In my opinion this should be covered under ACL and the company should be providing a free repair. However, if they're being difficult and refusing to deal with it, I would discuss with the manufacturer directly before trying to take it through legal procedures just to save myself the headache.

          • leadehh on 26/09/2019 - 15:24
            +2

            @Antares: Man that Choice article is the most out of touch thing I have ever read. 4 Years from a cheap laptop and 3 years for entry level phones? I mean seriously come on. You cannot believe this as accurate.

            You're right about the ACL helping though. Manufacturer's warranties and the ACL are two completely different things, and almost always when you read the manufacturers warranty they will state that their warranty is offered separate to your consumer rights under the ACL. OP should get some sort of outcome by going through ASUS via the retailer.

            In my opinion, the retailer has done the right thing, with one exception. They will have to send it to ASUS to provide a repair because there is no possible way they could do it on their own. Their error is in that they should have said that OP "may" have to pay for parts, not that he "has" to. Just to prepare OP that ASUS can turn around and say that X caused it and hence it isn't covered for Y reason and thus he will be out of pocket.

            If i was OP i definitely wouldn't be going through any legal routes until you have the retailer send it to ASUS and they give you a response as to what the fault is. If you're not happy from there, then that's when you get the legal parties involved.

            Source: Tonnes of ACL training.

            • Antares on 26/09/2019 - 15:34

              @leadehh: I don't really believe that Choice article either but I was using it for some kind of guide.
              The problem is that no one else has published any kind of guide for expected life of products, and Choice is the only company that has.
              I think a lot of problems would be fixed if there was an official time expectancy published by a government agency, but for now that's all we have.

              However, even if you halve the choice article's times (which is probably more what I expect), you should still get a minimum of 3-4 years from a mid-ranged laptop.

              • ssquid on 26/09/2019 - 16:37
                +1

                @Antares:

                I think a lot of problems would be fixed if there was an official time expectancy published by a government agency, but for now that's all we have.

                For depreciation purposes the ATO estimates an effective life of four years for desktops and two years for laptops.

    • HeWhoKnows on 26/09/2019 - 16:55

      Regardless of the negative votes here you are absolutely correct.
      Your reply is totally rational and realistic rather than the emotional outbursts of others here.
      Sympathy from OBs will get OP nowhere with this one.

  • arkie0 on 25/09/2019 - 16:15
    +2

    I have referred the matter to the Department of Commerce.

    lol, good luck getting it covered under ACL

  • ssquid on 25/09/2019 - 16:19
    +3

    It's a laptop, you'd struggle to argue for more than a two year expected lifespan.

    • spackbace on 25/09/2019 - 16:21

      And a $1400 one at that. We're not talking a $3k ROG

    • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:22
      +2

      2 years for it remaining "up to date" specs wise. I'd expect at least 3-5 years for the parts to remain working.

    • HeWhoKnows on 26/09/2019 - 16:56

      And with all the abuse they cop Id say 30 months is very good

  • outlander on 25/09/2019 - 16:22
    +2

    I'd say you have a case. Laptops aren't expected to last as long as things like fridges, but it's not disposable.
    I think it would be reasonable to expect at least 2 years from a cheap laptop, and at least 3 years for anything $1000+.
    Especially given that it's a major issue ie it can't function at all.

    If the repair bill was reasonable, I'd say maybe you should just pay it, given the age, but its practically guaranteed to be some outlandish sum, making it more cost effective just to buy another one. Companies cheat their repair obligations by overcharging for parts, so its basically a non-option most of the time.

    • spackbace on 25/09/2019 - 16:24

      but its practically guaranteed to be some outlandish sum

      How? Laptops can actually be easy things to pull apart and diagnose. Could be a simple ribbon cable not connecting properly (if there's no display). Question is whether it's loading and booting, just no screen.

      • outlander on 25/09/2019 - 16:37

        It might just be a 5c capacitor. But they're not going to test for it. Why would they? Its not their main business, it's an obligation, that generates them no short-term profit and deprives the market of a buyer. It's almost guaranteed that they'll swap out major parts, like the mainboard and the display, and charge close to the original price for it. It's just easier for them

      • terrys on 26/09/2019 - 07:40

        " Laptops can actually be easy things to pull apart "

        I remebr one of the first things we did when selling and repairing systems commercially was dispose of the " Warranty void if removed" stickers the box-shifters used to place on their machines, and inform our customer of the true situation. We stood by our work. After the first few months, both the main local wholesale suppliers would accept my calls for replacement parts pre-inspection.

        I doubt a laptop is in the same class.

    • HeWhoKnows on 26/09/2019 - 17:00

      Price has nothing to do with durablity and longetivity my friends and thats where you are most likely incorrect in your assumptions.

      In fact the high price indicates a high performance laptop which is subject to much more heat and stress than a cheap laptop.

      Hence from a technical point of view I would argue the exact opposite.

      The cheaper lower spec laptop will be subject to less heat and stress and hence last much longer than the more expensive high performance model.

      • outlander on 27/09/2019 - 19:15

        That's sounds.. about right.

        And lerein lies your mistake. That because something sounds correct, it must be true, and that if it's true, it must be relevant.
        But it's not. Indepth knowledge shared by you and I might tell us that high performance computing often comes at the cost of increased heat, which directly leads to increased wear. But it's impractical to expect consumers to know that, for every single type of product on the market. It's just too much to ask.

        Logical or not, price is commonly used as a metric for quality. So common, in fact, that there's an idiom - You get what you pay for. Something sellers are only too happy to go along with when selling. So it's only fair that they go all the way with it, and support their products for a reasonable period of time, which to me, a reasonable man, is a minimum of 3 years in this case.

        Of course, they could always choose to make this reduced lifetime very clear during the selling process, so the buyer knew that by buying a more expensive type it was coming with a shorter lifespan. That would be fair.. but somehow I don't see them being too keen to do that.
        Do you?

  • wannagrababargain on 25/09/2019 - 16:27
    +1

    Where does one draw the line for reasonableness? Is a $1400 price tag for a whole laptop computer representative of a super high premium rugged laptop that one might expect to last longer than what is 'normal'? I would say not really given that one would pay $1200 for an iPhone.

    I get it, you are annoyed that your laptop stopped working and in this consumer throwawary oriented culture we live in it's frustrating to even find someone willing and able to repair your computer. It's the price we pay…for having access to an entire personal computer system in our lap for only $1400.

    • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 16:32
      +1

      for having access to an entire personal computer system in our lap for only $1400

      If I wanted I could've spent around 3-400 for a laptop (chromebook/netbook) to do the same. That I would have only expected to last a year.

      • leadehh on 26/09/2019 - 15:30
        +1

        Well not really. Chromebooks don't run windows, have lower specs, often can't run apps etc etc.

        The dollar value you pay for it isn't necessarily relative to its lifespan, its relevant to the types of things you are doing. For example, If you had say, bought a 2k+ gaming laptop to simply go on Facebook, you couldn't turn around and say well I expected it to last longer because its a gaming laptop. The truth is, its a gaming laptop because it has the power to run games, not the power to do basic things for a longer timeframe. The ACL states that if you are given a specific expected lifespan of the product then legally, that company would have to ensure their product works for that timeframe. Hence why nobody does.

        I still think you should be able to get this repaired. But i would have the retailer send it to ASUS and see what their outcome is.

  • grumps on 25/09/2019 - 17:22
    +2

    Contact ASUS direct rather than the retailer. I work in the industry and if the complaint comes direct from the end user rather than store i have found that there is more chance the manufacturer will sometimes honor the warranty.

    • capslock janitor on 27/01/2021 - 11:55

      sometimes manfact.
      "For warranty process, please contact your place of purchase with receipt."

  • qwerty on 25/09/2019 - 17:45

    Another person with an asus laptop and accc here

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/124699

  • kerfuffle on 25/09/2019 - 18:26
    +1

    Retailer redacted but that's what the revisions tab is for 😏

  • [Deactivated] on 25/09/2019 - 20:01
    -1

    March 2017 -> now is not 'a little over' two years, it's 2.5yrs. For $1400, I'd be expecting a couple of years of use, and after that I'd be expecting to pay for repairs or would get a new one. Putting aside the time period - how much have you actually used it? 2 / 5 / 10 hours a day? It's not just the period, it's the actual usage pattern here that is important IMO.

    • C0nn0r42 on 25/09/2019 - 20:56

      I use it probably around 1-3 times a week for ~1-5 hours at a time

  • PizzaBoy on 25/09/2019 - 21:38
    +1

    I deal with ACL every day. I think your expectation is close to reasonable. Would probably get through if you put the effort in.

    • Geoff-bargain on 26/09/2019 - 12:03

      I agree. Its good that op knows ACL. Many are unaware that a product not only has a warranty but also has to meet the ACL guidelines and that manufactures can be made to fix products that break outside of their warranty but should reasonably have been expected to last much longer. For a laptop of this price I agree with Choice that it should be at least 4 years.

  • pjcook on 26/09/2019 - 07:22
    +2

    Absolutely a $1400.00 laptop should last longer than 2.5 years. ASUS have a known issue with the Screen failing, see here for possible troubleshooting fixes.

    https://www.windowspasswordsrecovery.com/fix-windows/how-to-…

  • HeWhoKnows on 26/09/2019 - 16:47
    -2

    OP is blowing lots hot air and needs to be realistic
    The computer is already 2 1/2 years old.
    Laptops these days dont have the same longetivity and durablity of laptops 10 years ago regardless of cost.
    We now live in a disposable world.
    The price paid was for performance only.
    Not for durablity and longetivity.
    ie Im sure its not water proof or shock proof or hot/cold proof or dust proof or kid proof and anything proof.
    And only God knows to what it has been subjected.

    And furthermore a high-spec computer will run much hotter and hence may be subject to possible earlier failure.

    All the claims here that a computer should last more than 2.5 years are totally unfounded.
    As a computer technician I will tell you everyone is WRONG!

    Why?

    Without knowing how the PC has been treated, to what conditions and abuse it has been subjected, in what environment it has operated, if it has had any spilages, if it has be constantly left in the hot sun, if kids and other abusive mortals have had access to it…….
    you just cannot draw any conclusion.

    Of course OP will claim complete innocence as they always do here.

    But the bottom line is the warranty is only 12 months and we are now at around 30 months of use.
    Not just out of warranty at 14 or 18 months or even 24 months.
    30 months is not a bad run considering the amount of abuse and mistreatment that laptops receive.

    And we dont really know the problem either.
    Quite possibly OP has contributed to its demise.

    OP is drawing a very long string on this one and his expectations are well beyond realistic.
    I can guarantee you that no amount of complaining and OB advice will get you a free fix for this one.

    • pjcook on 27/09/2019 - 07:16
      +2

      Absolute rubbish. I repair PC's and Laptops for a living. It is entirely reasonable to expect more than 2.5 years of use out of a $1400.00 laptop. The graphics should not fail in that time period.

  • DerpFactory on 01/10/2019 - 21:13

    OB's seem to be extremely negative, uninformed, and misleading when it comes to ACL.

    I called up consumer affairs or the ACCC (sorry I don't recall which) when I had a charging problem with my $650 phone 8 months outside of warranty.

    They informed me that it was well within my rights to expect a repair given that it was a core function and did not work 'for a reasonable amount of time'. They also advised what to say in my email's to the company and how to proceed and I ended up getting it repaired.

  • Baysew on 27/01/2021 - 18:43

    What was the final outcome?

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