Hi guys.. I need some help with the Consumer Rights from experienced people here. I bought an Asus Ultrabook from JB Hi-Fi in Feb 2012 and its charging plug always felt a bit lose since purchase, meaning it didn't feel like it was sitting tight when plugged in but I didn't care back then as it was still charging without any issues and I thought maybe that's how they were designed. However only 3 weeks ago it stopped charging altogether. It's been 1 year and 10 months since purchase and I'm just wondering how I can get JB Hi-Fi to get this sorted for me. I'd like to hear some advice before I actually go into the store. Other thing is I know the receipt is somewhere but I can't find it yet, however last time I saw it almost the whole ink on the receipt was gone so I'm guessing nothing on it is legible now anyway. However I digged into my Online Banking and found the transaction on my credit card. Would that help?
So, how do I get JB Hi-Fi to get this laptop repaired at no cost to me 10 months after 1 year warranty has expired? Thanks a lot for your inputs!
Consumer Rights on a laptop with expired warranty. How does it actually work?
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Thank you for the input but it's an ultrabook, so taking out the battery is not possible unfortunately.
Well, maybe not easy but definitely possible. You will probably find that when you flip the laptop - sorry 'ultra book' - over it will have screws. Possibly with torx heads. Just need a suitable screwdriver that, if you don't have one, can get from the likes of Bunnings. You don't mention what model it is, but here's some instructions on pulling apart an Asus: http://www.instructables.com/id/Replacing-an-Ultrabook-Asus-…
It may not be the case of course, but it does sound like the battery has died. 300 full charge/recycles is fairly typical, and if you're good then a battery may still be kicking after 4 or 5 years. This really depends on how it's been used though. My laptop batteries tend to need to be replaced after 2 years as I use the laptop a lot and after a couple of years the laptop tends not to be able to run off the battery alone for very long….. so a two year lifespan for a battery is not unusual. Replacement batteries for most models can be purchased off the interwebs.
edit Just read the further info below about only charging when power pack plugged in at different angles. If you're lucky, this may be the charger plug, rather than the socket in the laptop. See if you can find someone with a similar laptop/charger or even one of those universal laptop chargers you can get at the likes of DSE. What happens sometimes is the cable in the charger unit fails due to bending, and it's the angle of the cable itself that makes everything work when it's at just the right angle to allow the broken wire(s) connect inside the cable itself.
Yep it's not a battery issue so I just have to find out whether it's only the charger plug or the socket.. I have a feeling that it's the socket though cause like I said it used to charge when I "pushed the plug in firmer". But we'll see.
edit: the power light at the tip the plug is still on so the current is still reaching there.. this makes me think more the problem is the socket..
The other thing is, the charging cable started to play up a couple of weeks prior to this, it started charging only when it was plugged in some certain angles, or when I had to really push it in manually. So I'm almost certain the problem is within the charging unit inside the ultrabook.
Just call up and mention statutory warranty. If they tell you to contact the manufacturer then tell them your know your rights and will take it up with the ACCC if they try to palm you off.
They shall then bend over for you.
Sounds good. Thanks a lot!
Don't tell them ACCC they will think your a fool and laugh because ACCC does nothing. Tell them you will lodge a case with cttt because according to them you have 3 years about bringing a case before them however I think you know that this is mostly a fault of yours for doing nothing about it before. It has cost you a lot of bother and its probably easier to buy the new cord off eBay and that's probably all it is. They often ware out at at the connection (wires) after this long.
Yes and no.
'Stautory Warranty' is the key word you want to know, but the department is Consumer Affairs (in Vic anyway), not the ACCC.
How much is the laptop? If it's $1k or so a laptop of this value is expected to last at least 3 years you would think. This is what SW is all about.
Try and sort it out with JB direct. If no luck, raise a case with CA (this can be done easily and online). They will contact JB and ask give you guys one more chance to sort it out before they get involved, at this point you will usually have some centralised ass kissing section of JB call you and actually be helpful.
It's a long, annoying process, I had to go through the same thing with a Samsung TV, but in the end it worked out well for me.
(The funny thing was after weeks of getting the run around, being transferred to different departments, the 'Samsung Repair Shop' (they make it very clear they are not associated with Samsung, even though they have the word Samsung in their business name - my opinion is if you're benefitting from the brand you should also support it), repair shop and etc the Samsung 'Consumer Affairs' call center lady cheerily said 'Oh, why didn't you just call us in the first place'…)
I'm in QLD and ACCC says they accept claims as well as some other third party:
http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/…
http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-protection/where-t…
Laptop cost 1130 AUD, I agree it should last longer.
Do you still have the phone number to Samsung 'Consumer Affairs'?
My TV has the same issue but, until recently I didn't know that I could actually get them to do something about it.
What's this Cttt exactly? I google it and it comes up with a complaint line website.. ACCC on the other hand is owned by the state so why not they would do nothing?
I wouldn't mind buying a charger but like I say I doubt that's where the problem is.
Friend of mine did this recently at the actual warranty centre in Mt Gravatt… they even put in the job description "Use ACCC Law" i'll try get a scan.. .. yeah he bent over instantly even though its 5mths out of warranty.
Went from charging $55 just to have a look to "If your using ACCC law we will look at it for you right now"
This is for a Asus UX21e with the same issue with the power port as OP
1) Why didn't you get it repaired during warranty period?
2) Is it possible to buy a third party charger off ebay?
1) Because it only felt a bit lose during that period and was working just perfectly fine. I thought that's how they were built.
2) I'm almost sure the problem is the charging unit in the ultrabook, not the charger cause like I said before just before it got totally broke the charger was working only when I manually pushed it.1) felt a bit loose is plenty of reason to take it back for repair, this is a common problem that's the first sign - even if they don't fix it then its documented that there was a problem
2) I did the same on 4 different laptops it was the cord, common problem. Worn out loose wires. Its usually cheap enough to try a new cord.
3) put your receipts in plastic sleeves so they don't fade. Credit card statement is enough and credit gives you extra buyer protection which you should look into.
@ Kwaker
put your receipts in plastic sleeves so they don't fade.
Some plastics actually fade receipts faster…
(I) take a pic/scan/photocopy (whataver suits) of the original when i first get it, saving it in my Gmail and home PC.
1)
This is what the plug looks like:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mobile/ASUS/ZenbookPrime…By feeling loose I mean it turned around too easily, but still did not come out nor stopped charging. I thought that's how they were made. It's a bit hard to explain without seeing it. I just saw one of the same laptops in a friends house and he was using a rubber band to stop it from turning around lol I guess that's a common thing with ASUS ultrabooks, pretty lame.
2) Like I explained it in my other answer above I think the problem is in the unit.
3) I found the receipt and it is still legible so that's good.
The credit card I had back then had less features so it didn't have an extended warranty.
Ask them for a new recipet first, that may be able to print new one for you from the data base.
Then in the next day(or same day) try to clime to fix see how it goesThanks like I said I found the receipt and it's legible
You don't mean to sound rude, or you don't mean to sound uninformed?
Getting things fixed under statutory warranty is no doubt a pain, with all the resistance the retailer can muster up, but it is still possible.
I'm not the op, so I reflect your shiny insults off my mirror of smugness. As for the rest of your drivel…
Mr "Princess", before you go berserk you better first lift the curtain of hatred off your eyes a little bit to actually see who said what and who you are replying to. Besides I already explained in 2 or more different replies why I didn't take it back, "don't be so lazy" and read.
Under Australian Consumer Law this is not true. Manufacturer warranty periods have nothing to do with what the consumer is actually entitled to.
http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/…
Like everyone says this is about the statuary warranty, not retailer warranty, which is covered by law.
Asus have their own warranty repair/service centre in Australia. If you contact them directly I'm pretty sure they will arrange a courier to come pick it up and repair it at no charge to you.
I might give this a try. Thanks.
Have you actually asked JB to repair it yet? Your OP doesn't say you've approached them.
Nope I wanted to get some ideas before I go to them. And I got enough help thanks to everyone. I think I will first go to JB and if they don't help I will try ASUS.. If still nothing, then I will file a complaint.
Yes, they can reprint your receipt if you have a bank statement.
Check out JB's warranty book:
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/documents/corporate/43_2012-01-06_1…
Go to the store and mention your issue, what you have sounds like a 'Major Failure' as no reasonable person would buy a laptop that doesn't charge. Mention their warranty booklet and tell them you'd like the laptop repaired.
Since you're still under the two year mark, JB will determine for you at no cost the cause of the failure within a reasonable time frame. If they find it was due to a defect at the time of purchase (which it sounds like it was) they will repair it for you.
Hope this helps!
Hopefully JB will be helpful.. We will see tomorrow, thanks for the input!
Yes, I think you are entitiled to a repair. A laptop should work for more than 2 years.
Everyone might find this game helpful to learn your rights and the process:
My advice is to go in and be diplomatic, speak to them nicely and explain your case.
If you go in there and be rude, start demanding things, throwing around ACCC or Consumer Affairs or trying to be a pseudo-lawyer, they will only be less inclined to help you with your problem and at the end of the day the person who loses is you, because you have to waste your time making claims and sitting around waiting when a bit of diplomacy and courtesy could have gotten you the same result much faster.
I would go to JB and explain that your laptop just doesn't charge. Don't mention that you've noticed that it's loose or whatnot for months, otherwise they'd ask why you didn't bring it in earlier. Don't throw around ACCC or CA or statutory warranty, just tell them that you would like them to help you and were wondering if there was anything they could do for you.
If they make up excuses just let them know that it's under two years, so you think that they should take it in to determine what the fault is. From there, you should be able to navigate your way to a repair, it's not a difficult repair or an expensive one, charging ports are cheap as chips, so if that's the problem, they'll replace it for you.
If it all falls through, just buy a charging port off eBay and DIY, most of the time, I just do it myself because warranty waiting times are complete rubbish.
I wouldn't get nasty unless they try to send me away.. The nicer they are the nicer I will be :) Thank you.
I own an ASUS laptop which I bought from COTD and it came with 2 years warranty… It has the exact same problem, the charging pin came very loose, so every time I had to sit tight in a bad posture holding the pin. I sent in to Asus for repair, they replaced the pin etc, but still it is loose. I think it's their inherent design problem.
On another note, I have sent in my laptop to asus about 4-5 times for one issue or the other. They normally don't ask for receipt. They also arrange the courier pickup for you. I would suggest logging in the service request and see if they ask you for a receipt. www.tiny.cc/asus2012
This is exactly what I mean mate! Now I am 100% confident the problem is within the unit, not the charging cable. It's hard to tell from the beginning too, when it still charges ok, because you think that's how they were built when you buy it.. But it's just a poor design, I agree to that.
I wonder what happens when they keep changing parts 4-5 times and then one day they are like, oops it's been 4 years since you bought this, we can't help you anymore… Aren't they supposed to replace the whole laptop after more than 2 different issues on it or something?
Thanks a lot for the link, that's on my to do list next after seeing JB tomorrow!
I enjoy reading threads full of keyboard lawyers. Don't mind me, carry on.
hint wear and tear.
hint - you don't seem to know much about the ACL.
source - ex ACCC
Mr ex ACCC, what is the ACCC's interpretation on how many years a laptop worth $1000 should be covered for, then?
That's up to a relevant court or tribunal to decide. The provisions for statutory warranties are provided under the ACL. The ACL is looked after by the ACCC, but these provisions relate to contracts of sale. That is, it's a private issue where the ACL gives you extra rights. As such, the ACCC doesn't have any authority to say what it should be.
Nice try with the passive aggressive when you are called out though. Don't mind me, carry on.
"you are called out"
You serious?
You confirmed what everyone knows, that there is no time provision stipulated which means every person's interpretation will differ. A $1000 LCD might be expected to last 10 years for one person and would be upset if it didn't, whereas a 20 year old might want to upgrade to the latest and greatest in 2 years and that's all they expect. Just because person A is upset it fails at 9 years 11 months doesn't mean they have a claim.
A faulty charger outside of warranty, and I "know nothing about the ACL" because I suggest it could be fair wear and tear on the supplementary item?
Please continue your legal-speak and explain how OP has a good claim, and please dont repeat "ACL" "ACL" repeatedly. Feel free to refer to particular points. We're all interested.
I'm starting to get the picture why you are "ex-ACCC"
Riiiight. I have never said they had a good claim. Now you are just making stuff up. Make-believe is fun, kids!
I explained how the process works with the knowledge of someone who had to deal with ever day as their job. It seems very clear that you don't know how it works and when you are told how it works by someone who knows how it works, you get angry. You were being a a know it all douche who doesn't know anything. Maybe you are a keyboard lawyer, like the people you refer to? I don't know, but you must be fun at parties eh?
Anyway, the info I have posted should be enough to get the OP on the right track. Your contributions to the thread have been invaluable. Keep it up. I am sure everyone appreciates your life experience and feedback.
today i saw how staff try to twist getting out of warranty and to be honest extended warranty is always the easier approach but the ACCC SW is a mess of an idea, either set amount (say from 1-999 12 month, 1000-9999 3 years ect) but this hairy fairy idea of SW is just way to easy for them to argue out of and way too hard to argue for IMO
The reason that it is not defined is that the law has to cover every consumer transaction. That's a $2 watch at the Dollar King to a $80,000 HSV Holden. I would want my $80,000 car to last a damn sight longer than my $2 watch. They can't possibly list every good or service in existence in Australian and a time/amount for each one. That is why they say "reasonable". Would the average person think 2 years is a good lifespan for a TV? Unlikely. 5 years? Maybe. 10 years? Pushing your luck.
That is why a lot of companies started changing their phone warranties to 2 years. Almost by definition, if you are buying a phone on a two year contract the average person would expect it to last … bup badda baaaahhhhh, the length of the contract.
ETA: But yeah, Small Claims can be a real pain. There's no way around it though. It is not an ACCC issue, it is a contractual issue between you and the store and the ACL gives your contract extra provisions. It just so happens the ACCC is in charge of the ACL. Hence people carrying on about the "toothless tiger" ACCC not doing something they have no power to do anything about.
EDIT - as above. Go in and talk to them first, nicely. Try and sort it out and get it in writing if you can. Being aggressive at first instance is a Very Bad Idea.
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Basically you are covered under the Australian Consumer Law. If you ring the ACCC they can give you more info direct you to the relevant information.
HOWEVER, this is NOT an ACCC issue. They can't help you directly as it is a contractual issue. Threatening to "get the ACCC involved" will make you look like a bit of a tit. Mentioning you have talked to them often does wonders though, much in the same way as saying you've read the workshop manual for you car does on mechanics.
Basically, whenever you enter into a contract of sale in Australia, that contract is given extra implied warranties. They aren't written down anywhere, they are just there under the law. This is why extended warranties are very often a rip-off. They can help speed up the process, but they aren't required to enforce your rights.
In a nutshell the ACL says that goods should be of a merchantable or reasonable quality. It doesn't define those terms, but refers to things like the price of the goods, the expected usage the average person would think they would get out of it etc. So, what is reasonable for a $10 toaster is very different to what is reasonable for a $4000 TV.
You have the right to deal with JB directly. That is who your contract of sale is with. They can deal with the manufacturer/importer. If they say they can't they are lying and potentially further breaching the ACL by misrepresenting your rights and their responsibilities.
If it does go all completely pear-shaped and you can't get anything from them, you take it to Small Claims.
Source: ex-ACCC
Ok I'm a bit confused now, what's the exact difference between ACL and ACCC, doesn't ACCC apply what ACL says? Why would ACCC do nothing when you can lodge a complaint on their website, what's the point then?
The ACCC is the government body set up to enact the ACL (Australian Consumer Law).
However, the parts of the ACL that relate to statutory warranties are basically extra bits that get added on to a private contract of sale. For me most part, contracts are binding on the parties that enter into them and the ACCC doesn't have much say as to that. If you sign a Flexi-Rent contract with Harvey Norman ass-raping you for 3 times the value of the computer you are renting, that, for the most part, is your problem. You had the contract, you could have read it, you agreed to it. Government agencies shouldn't have the power to just put those aside. You are a big boy. There are new laws to do with unfair contracts, but that is a whole other thing.
Aaaaaaaanyway, so you have a private contract of sale with JB-Hifi and the ACL automatically gives your private contract of sale extra bonus bits. To enforce those bonus bits you need to use a relevant court or tribunal and the cheapest of these is usually Small Claims.
The reason you lodge the complaint is that the ACCC keeps track of all the complaints they receive about traders and what happened. So, if for example, JB were telling you that you had no rights for a repair (which may not be true), you call the ACCC. If it turns up that there is a pattern of JB doing this kind of thing then some enforcement action might be taken in terms of that issue.
However, the base issue (it broke, I think it didn't last long enough) is a private issue.
The other thing to keep in mind, is that the ACCC is a federal government body that takes action in the Federal Court. Realistically they aren't going to run a court action costing tens of thousands of dollars (or hundreds) court to get you $50 back. That would be a MASSIVE waste of taxpayer dollars for little real benefit for consumers Australia-wide. If it was happening multi-state, maybe. This is also where your state Departments of Fair Trading come in. They usually operate on a smaller scale.
To my knowledge the retailer must provide a solution to fix the item. This does not necessarily mean that they will fix stuff that is out of warranty and bare the costs.
as far as I am aware of in regards to ACL, if its a minor/major fault the retailer does not have the right to refuse the warranty claim but they don't have the technicians on-site whom can assess if it is a 'major/minor' fault and thus will have to send it to a licensed third party repairer who can assess it.
Which you may argue is unfair but the fact is that a casual university part-timer can't tell you whether its the MB/CPU/Connectors that are damaged
Now if the assessor says that it is a major fault with whatever it is, it will be replaced or can be refunded.
If it is minor, it will have to be repaired of exchanged.
Now if the assessor says that it is due to physical damages and so forth, your warranty claim means nothing because its a damaged caused by you alone etc etc whatever the cause it and you may be responsible for service fees incurred for the check.
Something else to consider would be purchasing extended warranty. Why? Saves your ass in regards to chasing up the ACL and what not when something goes wrong. So much easier arguing the fact that "I paid for your warranty service so fix it". Of course if the price/terms and conditions are ridiculous I would not pay for it but if it is reasonable IMO its worth it. Though read the T&Cs of course.
(Experience from working in retail and dealing with warranty repairs everyday ;) )
Basically all in all, JB Hifi has to send it off to repair for you but you may be liable for the service fees of the licensed repairer if it was deemed not a fault within the product.
The repair company's assessment holds higher value than what you say when it comes to a SW claim as you the consumer are probably not a licensed laptop repairer etc and I have seen many people argue that it is a fault, called up to make a claim and failed ( Well I don't see them back at the store so I assume the claim failed)
Most third party license repair centers do not purposely try to fault the item so you cop the service fee. Why? They get paid regardless whether it be from the manufacturer or from you.
ACL is also there to protect the retailers too and not just the consumer.
Yeah, it is not set in stone. It could be a refund (or partial refund), replacement, it could be repair, it could be store credit. It's up to you and them to come up with a solution.
If you bought it and it blew up the next day, I don't think it is ridiculous to ask for money back or complete replacement. 2 years … you could be lucky and they give you something.
GOV was lazy went made this law. should made it 2years. now what u have it i think u think. be careful went deal with maker of laptop.
So a 50c toy car should have warranty for 2 years? Probably not… you would expect it to work for a few days or a month…
Or a $10000 tv should have warranty for 2 years? Probably not… You would expect it to work for 5 years.
But "expect" is a term which is extremely vague.
The entire thing is extremely vague. You're better off looking up case law for examples. Heres some examples http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/conference/downloads/2…
Go to page 28 and read through, it shows even if you didn't have extended warranty you would be covered although it doesn't tell you how much the guy paid for laptop!!! The guy was told he wasn't covered under his 3 year extended warranty when it broke at 2yrs 11months. The court said statutory law covered it and the retailer had broken the extended warranty contract and made them refund his $300.extremely vague. some people are happy with TV lasting 12months some want it to last 5years. All it done make lawyer more money
There is no lawyers involved.
Most ASUS laptops actually have a 2 year warranty. I would double check this for your model.
I'm not sure where ACL falls on this but personally although help from JB hifi would be appreciated I don't think it's their responsibility to do all of the grunt work on something that they sold 22 months ago without extended warranty.
That's not to say that I don't think you have a case or that extended warrantys are worth buying, but to say wouldn't it be reasonable to expect the retailer to handle your problems directly for the life of the warranty (or at least 3-6 months on smaller ticket items) but then go directly to the manufacturer for reasonable requests past that?
The ACL doesn't work that way. The contract is between the retailer and the consumer. So the retailer has the legal responsibiity to sort it out.
Asus laptops used to have a 2 years international warranty when sold in australia, however aus sold ones now only have 12 months local warranty. While in the uk and the usa they still have 2 years international warranty. So australians get gipped again.
Ok here is the update. First I lodged a service request on Asus website and the reply I received was "the device with this serial number is no longer under warranty, if you believe it is e-mail us with a proof of purchase bla bla". So apparently they check the warranty expiry from serial numbers. I replied with saying it's only 1 year 10 months old and still under STATUARY warranty according to ACCC / ACL and attached a picture of the receipt. While I wait for a response I thought I might also give a call to JB Hi-Fi. I talked to this guy and came straight the point, " I bought it in Feb 2012, I know you guys offer only one year warranty but I talked to ACCC and they advised me to call you under STATUARY warranty. First thing he said was "DID YOU SAY YOU TALKED TO ACCC?" I said yes. Then he asked me to contact ASUS and deal with them (no surprise, huh?). I said I was advised by ACCC that I can contact the retailer, doesn't have to be the manufacturer. He said you could do either but it'd be more effective and faster if I got a service ticket number from ASUS and came back to them with that. I said I will e-mail ASUS but it if takes too long to get an answer I will bring in my laptop to you directly. He said ok. So apparently ACCC DOES scare them out :) If ASUS replies within 2 business days I will sort it out with them, if not now I know that I can sort it out with JB Hi Fi.
Thank you very much everyone for their kind support!Btw, it's statutory not statuary warranty, make sure you spell it right in emails and stuff or you'll look silly.
I'm sure I spelled ACCC correctly so it will make its point.
If you take the battery out and run it straight from the charger, does it work, that will tell you if it's the battery or the charger.