Dad's Selling a Car Need Some Advice

paraneoplastic on 17/10/2019 - 01:56
Last edited 20/10/2019 - 04:00

Back story

My dad is selling his used range rover

What's odd about the transaction is the following

  1. the buyer is currently overseas and moving back from the middle east to live in Aus permanently (is a pilot)

  2. His Brother in law came for the car inspection (which i told my dad to do at a random place not at their house)

  3. the buyer then after being satisfied with the BIL assessment of the car, wired 1k as a deposit.

  4. Agreed to sell the car on the 16th, but this was delayed by a week supposedly due to problems with them departing the middle east,

now the kicker

  1. The buyer has just trasnferred 16.5k, which seems really bizzare to me

I've told my dad not to accept any further funds before a formal contract can be drawn up (listing both parties, car details etc). I'll go help him close the sale in a weeks time, but i jsut wanted to know whether i should have an level of elevated suspision, or whether this is an acceptable procedure (the car sale price is 72k)

Also how should the rest of the funds be accepted, if i tell my dad to put an embargo on the pilots funds?

EDIT: Just to clarify, i've messaged the buyer and he is happy to do the remainder as a cashier's cheque / cash deposit into dad's account - i think some people may have missed that he is returning to Aus next week. Right now, i'm leaning on that he is a genuine buyer, but will err on the side of caution.

Financial

Comments

    • sw00p on 18/10/2019 - 08:15
      +3

      Near new Toyota Camry.

    • Cheeper on 18/10/2019 - 08:45

      My dad is selling his used range rover

    • paraneoplastic on 18/10/2019 - 10:09

      It’s a Range Rover HSE 2015 v6 and fully speced out (hence they 72k price tag)

      • KLoNe on 18/10/2019 - 11:20
        +13

        Your Dad spent 72k for a V6? He's already been scammed.

        • gtech on 18/10/2019 - 18:42
          +1

          Double Scam !! Its a Range Rover !!

    • Worf on 19/10/2019 - 20:27
      -1

      High yield investment vehicle?

  • sillyguy on 18/10/2019 - 08:05

    Scam based on tale signs.

    However what annoys me is that how on earth the scammers can get the money reversed (even direct deposit) while the victims can’t!

    Take the $17K and run LOL

    • paraneoplastic on 18/10/2019 - 10:10

      I think they pull the fraud card saying it wasn’t then who authorised the transaction, nah wouldn’t take the money and run my morals would stop me lol

    • adamstoy on 18/10/2019 - 16:01
      +3

      It's because the way that it works is they will generally take over someone's identity through phishing or stealing mail etc. They will have everything re-directed to them even the 2FA.

      They then log into that person's account, transfer the money to a 3rd party like the Ops father. The Ops father then transfers the money back to the scammer and is looked upon as a money launderer, then the money is taken out of the Op's father's account.

      I have experienced this first hand working in a bank contact centre. Had the customer who was missing a large sum of money call, then low and behold 3 calls later the scammer calls because we've blocked everything and reversed the transaction before it was able to be sent across (before instant transfers).

      They use every excuse in the book, they had told me that the funeral director was there to collect for their son's funeral and that he died of cancer at 4 years old. They then were crying on the phone, went on for 20 minutes. It was unbelievable but we found out a couple of months later they were caught and arrested.

      Anyways I hope this helps in understanding the scam from another perspective.

    • spaceflight on 18/10/2019 - 21:15

      However what annoys me is that how on earth the scammers can get the money reversed

      They don't.

      They ask you to send the money back to their account.

      The issue for you happens when the person whose account was used to send you the money notices it is missing.

  • rb123 on 18/10/2019 - 09:16
    +11

    Next thread: I Transferred $17k to a Seller for a Car Deposit and they ran off with my money. How Can I Get My Deposit Back?

  • gimme on 18/10/2019 - 09:40
    +5

    I don't know anything but if all of Ozb is saying this is a scam, if I were a betting person I'd go with it's not a scam.

  • FareEvader on 18/10/2019 - 09:42

    Sounds like a scam, please keep us posted.

  • netsurfer on 18/10/2019 - 10:37
    +1

    It does feel like a scam. The only slightly unusual part is that if it were a scam, why sent someone to inspect the car?

    Make sure the money is actually in the bank, not some fake e-mail receipt type of rubbish. The whole thing just feels quite fishy.

    • paraneoplastic on 18/10/2019 - 10:51

      Yeah and the brother in law extensively checked the car and negotiated 3k off because fo a small paint chip on the bumper lol

      Moeny is landed in dads bank account but already transferred into one of their other savings account for safety

      • FareEvader on 18/10/2019 - 11:49
        -1

        I wouldn't consider that safe. I'd transfer the funds to a different bank.

      • profar on 18/10/2019 - 12:01

        Hmmmmmm your getting safer by the hour .

        Only possible scam in play is reversal and if that was the case why would they want a discount ?

        Good acting lol .

      • netsurfer on 18/10/2019 - 12:03

        Hopefully, it is the best case scenario that the buyer decided to send you additional payment to assure you he wants the car. Deposit already paid previously.

        Still, be vigilant because if this is a true scam (still quite likely) and they already wired the money to you, it doesn't matter where you transferred the money to, they will be nasty later on for sure.

        Hope we are wrong and everything will turn out fine.

  • KLoNe on 18/10/2019 - 11:17

    Why is this even a question? Is there only one buyer in the world for this car? NO!
    Tell the scam artist to F off and find someone local who will come and pick up the car and give you a heap of cash in your HANDS.

  • Hirolol on 18/10/2019 - 11:31

    Scam for sure!!

  • happirt on 18/10/2019 - 12:08

    What part of this so far make it a scam, the middle east part? Only if they start asking for money or you do a runner with the money.

    Just wait and see what they do next. Cash is preferred but with 50k+, a bank cheque. transfer of car only upon cheque being cleared.

  • shandawgg on 18/10/2019 - 13:09
    +4

    If its an Evoque… who's scamming who ?! lol

  • N82 on 18/10/2019 - 13:34

    Can't you just ask him to transfer the money to his brother-in-law's account and get him to give you a bank cheque?

  • cowiie on 18/10/2019 - 14:17
    -2

    I’ve had a similar scam before. You will usually not receive any more at all, because nothing was ever transferred even though they have legit looking transfer confirmation receipts and a “third party” service sending you emails.

    Just stop.

    • gimme on 18/10/2019 - 14:31
      +3

      Lol have you even read the thread? The $$ was actually xfered and dad even moved to different account.

      • cowiie on 18/10/2019 - 19:37
        -1

        Obviously not.

  • Hirolol on 18/10/2019 - 17:27

    Put the money in a savings account and earn interest on it LOL

    Update op when you hear more newest
    Thx

    • Ulysses31 on 18/10/2019 - 19:07
      +2

      $0.03 profit, woot!

  • ss207k on 18/10/2019 - 20:10

    received se offer when I was selling my 2001 Toyota..pilot in middle east looking for a first car for his son..

    SCAM…

    • paraneoplastic on 18/10/2019 - 20:15

      how long ago was this?

      Did he pay as well and provide ID?

      • barbarella on 19/10/2019 - 08:40

        plenty of fake IDs out there :/

      • ss207k on 19/10/2019 - 10:50

        Yes he offered to show his ID and wire transfer a deposit. He replied to my ad (gumtree for 1.2k) 30 mins after I posted…

        Seemed too good to be true… 14 year old run down, one of the most popular/common car, having 180k being offered to be shipped to WA at their own costs… I ignored it.

  • kelad on 18/10/2019 - 21:45
    +1

    Make sure they haven’t hacked his bank act and done a cash advance from his credit act. Happened to my mum. They transferred 3k from credit into her savings so it all looks legit. They then asked for refund. Doubtful in this case, but still worth checking all accounts.

  • Randolph Duke on 19/10/2019 - 08:09
    +4

    Whilst my first instincts are scam, I think this one could be legit. Don’t normally have people sent around to look at the car in these scams.

    • Cheeper on 19/10/2019 - 09:46
      +1

      True. But if you have that much money why would you be buying this way? Just hire a car when you get back and drive that for a week or two until you find one to buy. Be good to see how this one pans out.

    • CocaKoala on 19/10/2019 - 12:06

      Whilst my first instincts are scam

      Your first instincts are good, mate. I'd say go with it. The risk is just far too much otherwise. :-)

    • happirt on 19/10/2019 - 12:38

      You don't normally receive $16k for no reason either (deposit $1k already paid).

      I suspect if it is a scam, they sent people to assess the situation to make sure the seller seems like the people who could be taken advantage of and not run away with the $16k they are about to deposit.

  • CocaKoala on 19/10/2019 - 12:03
    +1

    There's always one or two who "are overseas", "working on a mine in a remote island", and what not. I've got a few basic rules to sell a car:

    • The buyer presents themselves PHYSICALLY to inspect the car, before I discuss anything further. Everything else they need to know is in the advertisement (including photos of every page of the service logbook). If this basic requirement cannot be met with, I don't sell it to them.
    • Test drives are OK if I'm convinced the buyer is genuinely interested in purchasing, but I'll tag along for the test drive and be on the rear bench. With my two of my Tongan friends.
    • We meet in the bank and the buyer deposits CASH into my account right there. I know it's possibly inconvenient to some genuine buyers, but they could withdraw from their account and deposit into mine. The risk of choosing another mode of payment is far too much for me. I once opened an account with westpac for this purpose, which I closed in a week after transferring money into my main savings account.

    There are far too many genuine buyers in the market to to put up with this kind of "the buyer is overseas, and is a pilot" bullshit. No, he ain't, and no, he ain't.

    PS: Do not return that $16K money. Tell them they must contact their bank and reverse the transaction, and that you will authorise the reversal by talking to your bank. This process may take a week or so at least, and for all you know the funds are going to be reversed on its own due to the cheque being dishonoured.

    • Randolph Duke on 19/10/2019 - 16:08

      To be fair, I started conversations about cars before I returned to Oz. Had I found the right one, I’d have paid a deposit.

      • CocaKoala on 19/10/2019 - 16:19
        +2

        "A deposit" is one thing, and is understandable. However, transferring $16K to the seller without having discussed it with them sounds extremely fishy. I'd not deal with that person, given I could instead deal with someone else local.

    • Eeples on 20/10/2019 - 21:45

      You think it is that easy to withdraw $72k cash from a bank.

      You expect someone to walk down the street with $72k ?

      There is no reason not to get a bank cheque. For extra safety though go with the seller to the bank when they buy the cheque.

      • CocaKoala on 20/10/2019 - 23:38

        Hi, did you mean to respond to someone else? I don't remember saying that someone has to walk down the street with cash. What I said was that the transaction as a whole should happen within the bank, which means the buyer withdraws from their account and deposits it into the seller's account while at the counter.

        Except for in one instance in my experience, the teller usually never had to draw cash out and hand it over because we explain it to them and they just transfer it over the counter. Even if the teller hands over cash to the buyer, it gets deposited into the seller's account right away.

        That said, you should feel free to accept any means of payment that suits you. I was telling what I'm comfortable with, and not what someone else should do.

  • ahara on 19/10/2019 - 14:11
    +1

    I feel this may be genuine but it does sound very strange because the other person also trusts you in a way to not run away with the money.

    Swift transactions have a description field so maybe check what purpose is stated in transaction.

    Also I agree with others to only deal with person who will be on transfer papers and in person at a bank branch. Maybe inquire in advance which bank he uses and open a transaction account in your name to transfer funds from buyer to yourself at the branch you will meet in person.

    Finally, keep all ids and correspondence and possibly also have an independent witness present at the transaction at the branch.

    If he requests reversal of funds decline due to him backing out of verbal agreement (contract) to purchase car at set price (lost deposit) and use written documentation as proof at your branch. If eventually it becomes clear the funds were stolen you have proof to demonstrate that you are the victim as well.

    In essence you should not worry too much but some precaution is justified here when you plan to finalize transaction at the end.

    Update: I realise the funds were transferred from an Australian branch so maybe you can give them (that bank) a heads up to enquire with rightful owner of account on transaction and to verify such owner has not been scammed.

  • damoo on 19/10/2019 - 20:04

    I think the fine folk of ozbargain are the ones being scammed here….

    • paraneoplastic on 20/10/2019 - 04:03

      I have no reason to fabricate this…

  • Worf on 19/10/2019 - 20:31
    +1

    Tell the buyer that you have contacted the AFP and they will interview the pilot when he returns to Australia.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/10/2019 - 20:42
    +2

    Send the buyer a link to this thread.

    Post his response.

  • ribbonsofnight on 20/10/2019 - 10:33

    2 things I want to know
    1) can it be checked that the money is genuinely owned by the buyer.
    If I was in this position then after reading through all the information I was given including links to common scams I'd be ringing up the government agencies who are used to sorting out scams after money has been scammed and going to the bank and asking for a manager or their fraud people to advise me.
    2) figuring out the safest way to receive the rest of the money, if there was nothing that made the professionals certain it was fraud already.

  • Hirolol on 20/10/2019 - 10:46

    He’s given you 16.5k
    What’s the remainder?

    • Stone Monkey on 20/10/2019 - 16:26

      From reading the post; 72k - 16.5k = 55.5k.

  • Eeples on 20/10/2019 - 21:35

    How do you not accept further funds that are transferred in to your bank account?

    You should instruct your father not to spend it.

    • paraneoplastic on 21/10/2019 - 18:47

      Told the buyer to not transfer anymore funds

  • ahara on 21/10/2019 - 18:32
    +1

    When’s the transaction meant to be finalized? Need to put in a reminder to check this thread for updates. The suspense is killing me

    • paraneoplastic on 21/10/2019 - 18:47
      +1

      in 3 days, haha

      • ahara on 22/10/2019 - 17:12

        Weekend sorted. Following ozbargain thread ;)

  • Stinge Master on 24/10/2019 - 17:11

    "Middle East" "Seems bizzare" Sounds like a scam to me

    • gimme on 24/10/2019 - 21:44

      Lol why is the location bizarre? So another region less bizarre by that logic?

      • Stinge Master on 24/10/2019 - 22:07

        OP said himself that the situation seemed bizzare, not the location. If OP thinks it's bizare he should go with his gut and just accept that it's a scam. The location being the "Middle East" is just another reason to stay away.

        • gimme on 25/10/2019 - 07:38

          Just curious why would you say ME is another reason? It's not like the obvious Nigerian scam? Prior experience or just ignorance? Would you be less suspicious if they said Europe? keeping in mind if it's a scam they can make up any region

  • paraneoplastic on 24/10/2019 - 23:01
    +11

    Can confirm wasn’t a scam

    Bank cheque in branch buyer got written handed to dad , dad deposited in to his account. Title transferred over done deal.

    I asked why he transferred the 16.5k he said it was to secure the car so dad didn’t sell to someone else (fair enough).

    The saga ends!

    • thatonethere on 24/10/2019 - 23:23

      Well done! I was sure it was dodgey.

    • gimme on 25/10/2019 - 07:34
      +1

      Lol I knew it. My theory is 100% correct. Ask Ozbargain for what NOT to do
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/7853128/redir

      • paraneoplastic on 25/10/2019 - 13:38

        Hahaha , I understand the caution though

        • gimme on 26/10/2019 - 07:30

          The 100% scam people have disappeared. You've made the thread boring now by sharing the positive outcome. They've moved to the next fun thread to shoot from the hip.

          • Cheeper on 26/10/2019 - 11:25

            @gimme: Those people were negative about it because they have seen over many years that this type of purchase usually has been a scam.
            A friend recently advertised a car for sale on the net and they got a lot of scammers inquiring and that was for a much cheaper older car.
            Great to see the OP has had a safe sale in this instance.

            • gimme on 26/10/2019 - 12:57

              @Cheeper: We've all seen it, I don't live under a rock but my problem or rather amusement is with those categoric responses who have no ability to discern between shades of grey and blindly correlate one situation with another. Your situation looked suspicious but not the 100% scam that some on here were carrying on about. But that's the internet I suppose.

          • damoo on 26/10/2019 - 20:39

            @gimme: Or he just made the whole thing up (or parts thereof) and made up a happy ending.
            Equally as plausible as a non scam at this point.

  • Wally on 26/10/2019 - 18:39

    What was the final sale price of the fully spec'd 2015 Range Rover bought for $72k

    Edit: nvn 72k - 16.5k = 55.5k

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