Apple refusing to replace my 11 Pro phone despite telling me it’s faulty. They said to take it back the store I purchased. They wrote me a letter confirming the quality is sub par but said I had to wait for software updates.
What’s my best steps? VCAT?
In all honesty, I also have an iPhone 11 and the camera I find isn’t that great. The images need to be taken dead straight. It’s a phone which was released 1 month ago. Either wait for an update or sell it.
If they replace it, the software will cause the problem to happen again.
I recommend a Huawei P30 Pro. The low light picture quality is absolutely amazing.
Winnie the Pooh might be watching you through the camera.
Joke aside, I think it is a good idea to consider the current partnership between Huawei and Android. The phone MAY not be receiving the newest android version in the future.
How is that different from all Android phones? "The phone MAY not be receiving the newest android version in the future." - This is super common even for flagship Android devices..
How is Pooh watching any different from the USA (FBI, NSA, CIA, etc, etc) watching you? Why do you think the US are so opposed to Huawei?
It's because they don't want the Chinese elbowing in on their spying.
@field1985: Most flagship phones receive new 2 generations of Android. Huawei P30 Pro received 1 which is Android 10 and that may be the last.
The spying part was totally a joke and I'm aware there's no way of stopping the spying except for going totally offline or flashing custom ROM.
Winnie makes all the chips in all phones anyway. Don't for a second think that any device is free of this burden.
Lol hahaha
It ain't about the hongmenging CCP love mate.
If the item indeed not working as intended, Apple should suck it up and replace regardless.
I went Andriod years ago and will never buy one again.
Had a Sumsang Galaxy 4 brought from the Samsung store that died at six months old.
Oh, I guess if samsung screwed you, all android manufacturers must be bad.
Apple has fantastic customer service, any issues they fix the phone on the spot or replace it.
Unless you're like OP and they don't.
Lack of loan phone is largely the industry standard .
It doesn't make sense for them to not replace or refund you should the phone just be 6 months old.
What did you leave out in the story?
Nothing left out, the phone was never dropped or modified. It just wouldn't turn on. They gave no reason why they refused to repair it.
Had an iPhone that had a faulty home button, they said yes it's faulty we will replace the phone now.
I agree, this story seems to be missing parts.
Apple has fantastic customer service, any issues they fix the phone on the spot or replace it.
Given the posters experience that obviously isn't true.
Maybe read carefully what OP is saying and revisit your comment, gromit. OP is trying to get a replacement phone when there is no determinable fault, as per the comments from Apple. Hardly points to poor customer service.
@ThithLord: I don't have to revisit my comment as I know first hand it is correct even if the OP example is not one and apple are awful at doing proper investigations of faults. My sisters nightmare with Apple 2 years ago where they would not replace a faulty device and she had to eventually in tears threaten to take them to consumer affairs ,after multiple visits to apple where they claimed no problem, before they replaced her phone which would randomly turn off.
@gromit: I’ve always had great experiences with Apple, with several examples.
I’ve bought multiple iPhones, a few of which have had replacement programs for very minor issues that didn’t affect me - I’d get a new phone with a new battery every time.
My iPhone 7 Plus battery started to die last year, at 25 months. Went to an Apple Store and came out with a new, free battery and a new screen due to the earpiece failing a test I didn’t ask for. Call quality was very loud after that.
My MacBook Pro (late 2013) charger died last year, and I went to an Apple Store, expecting to pay $150-odd. Walked out with a free charger.
Had an AirPod replaced last year for quiet audio, no questions asked.
Bought an 11 Pro Max with no hesitation this year from my experiences. I’ve never gone a day without my phone or MacBook.
i bought samsung s4 when it first came out and still working now. It survived a house fire, water from the fire brigade and was full of smoke and ash, but my iphone was next to the s4 died.
Recommend OnePlus phones for Android. The 7Pro is crazy good. They also come with a case and screen protector. Why don't other phone manufacturers do this?
Huawei does, the p20 pro came with a glass screen on and a case.
Huawei has it for the p2ppro we have, Oppo does it for the phone my wife has.
Sony did it for the Xperia’s I used to own.
My Samsung S8+ died three weeks ago. Samsung store in CBD Sydney changed the motherboard for free even though I was 4 months out of warranty. They must have a repair room in the outlet as it was ready for pickup three hours later. So kudos to them for that, it might be the store to go to if you have a phone problem in Sydney. Also it helps if you are ultra positive and thankful for their assistance.
To be fair, the Samsung Galaxy S4 is one of the worst android phones ever created. it was an absolute piece of shit and nearly sent me to Apple.
But they're not all like ethis.
This post is about how Apple won’t repair or replace it. They are saying there’s something wrong but won’t do anything about it.
An update came out a few days ago. it might fix photo issue. There is nothing wrong with the phone. No need to replace it. Not happy then give it away or sell it.
To me reading the thing it sounds like they're saying the phone is working as intended and thats just the way iPhone 11 cameras are and it might get better with software updates. Assuming its correct, a replacement would be the exact same, unless the technician got it wrong?
what about side by side comparison with known good device? If they prove that another iPhone 11 works fine then it's not as intended
Agreed, unfortunately line 4 clips off so I can't read what in particular it says afterwards but on line 5 of the image it has:
"Test images was taken from a known good device for side by side comparison - unable to verify issue."
To me it sounds like they compared it with another camera and the tech didn't see any difference to verify OP issue.
That is exactly what they would've done & in this case they haven't actually acknowledged the issue at all. The use of the phrase 'unable to verify issue' means they don't actually think it's faulty after running all recommended tests.
They aren't in the habit of replacing phones because customers think a feature should be better than it is, in the end the onus is on the customer to confirm whatever they are buying is right for them before making the purchase.
Why don't you take it back to the shop you purchase and ask for replacement?
Read the letter. There is nothing wrong with the phone.. Photos are not coming up as expected. An update might fix it.
An update might fix it but does the update exist now, it is the question.
If it didn't do what it is expect now then it should get a refund or replacement.
Unless OP's sales person made claims about 'zoom' and Night mode working together, or said the 11 pro is better those Huawei's, OP's confused the competitors product's for Apple's and is owed nothing.
I expect my budget car to look and drive like a veyron. Would you please organise my refund for me?
They said to take it back the store I purchased.
Apple says to take the item to the retailer so they they may provide a new item. What is wrong with that?
I'm going to go out on a limb here: I think it's the AASP, not Apple saying this.
Where did you take the phone to be serviced? Did they do the assessment or get apple to do it? The AASP might be giving you this response because they simply do not have the means or capacity to offer any solution. Apple, on the other hand, might.
Perhaps take this document and the phone into an Apple store. Deal with them directly.
Check out Louis Rossman on YouTube for a further explanation on how AASPs suck.
Of course, if this is Apple saying this I suggest you check out the aforementioned YouTube personality for further explanation on how Apple suck.
Must be pp3g3hot again….
VCAT case has been lodged.
That’s the way to go to waste state funds.
Do the right thing and take the good back to the retailer so they may provide a remedy.
Apple replace faulty phones all the time
As you didn't buy from Apple directly, you need to deal with David Jones for warranty, replacement and repair. You can take your device to apple but they are not the one responsible for your purchase and what they provide is out of goodwill.
I have escalated this with Apple as David Jones will tell me to deal with them anyway.
David Jones is the one responsible for it and you can't really escalate something to Apple as they are the manufacturer and not the retailer.
VCAT case has been lodged.
You need to have a read about Consumer rights & guarantees
As you didn't buy from Apple directly, you need to deal with David Jones for warranty, replacement and repair. You can take your device to apple but they are not the one responsible for your purchase and what they provide is out of goodwill
David Jones is the one responsible for it and you can't really escalate something to Apple as they are the manufacturer and not the retailer.
Half right. You can claim the reduced value of a product directly from a manufacturer.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
You need to have a read about Consumer rights & guarantees
um…
There's nothing in that report that tells me they say it's faulty.
Their referral to the place of purchase is pretty much saying "we don't think there's anything wrong with it, but if you still do, then David Jones have your money, so it's up to them to deal with it"
Legally the place of purchase can't send you to the manufacturer. They can say "it may be easier for you to go to Apple", but cannot say you have to.
However they do have the right to get it inspected by the manufacturer, which can take time - send to manufacturer and if the manufacturer reports back there is nothing wrong then you would have no choice but to give up or go through consumer rights channels (I don't think Apple actually let resellers do this but they will have a Rep they can talk to about it)
This is unacceptable and Apple have admitted this is the case.
Where have Apple admitted this is the case? Your letter states they found no fault with your device.
I was under the impression that you are entitled to a refund it the product does't meet your expectations. It is a bit of a stretch to claim the phone as being 'faulty' if you aren't satisfied with the way it operates.
"I was under the impression that you are entitled to a refund it the product does't meet your expectations."
That's not correct and it would be hard to manage…"I expect that $400 phone to last 20 years, I want a refund" That's an extreme example, but the camera issue above is similar to I expected my computer to run games faster, or I expected my 4k TV to upscale 720 free to air video better. You could find a way to return almost anything.
You may be thinking of "Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that their description of goods (for example, in a catalogue or television commercial) is
accurate" and "A supplier guarantees that goods will match any sample or demonstration model and any description provided" (both copied and pasted from ACL).
There's also a difference between misleading advertising and claims such as this used the best camera ever (from somewhere else in this post). Best camera could mean a lot of things - most pixels best low light, most features, more lenses than ever before.
no, im thinking that within a certain time frame, for example 2 weeks or 30 days, if you are not happy with the product you can return it. This is often the case with many stores.
@ColstonAUS: That would be a store policy that varies store to store, not a requirement by Australian Consumer law.
This often also excludes things like phones, as once the seal is broken most stores would be unable to re-sell them without significant discount (would you buy a phone for full price if you knew it had been used before?). Suppliers would also not likely take them back from resellers.
Stores like the Apple store themselves can do it because they then use them as refurbished or replacements. But this one was purchased from a reseller.
Your retailer is responsible for warranty claims. Apple is correct to refer you to the retailer if you didn't buy it directly from Apple.
Also "unable to verify issue" most likely means the device has been determined to NOT be faulty. If an image is grainy in low light, that is because of physics - higher ISO is ALWAYS more grainy because there is less light hitting the sensor.
How did this get upvotes?
The first sentence is completely incorrect.
The consumer can either contact the manufacturer OR the retailer if the goods are faulty.
Stop sharing incorrect information if you don't know what you're talking about 🤦
Stop sharing incorrect information if you don't know what you're talking about
that’d make Internet quiet and boring.
Quite ironic that you're trying to correct me on the ACL when you clearly have no idea what it actually says. Here is a copy of my post further down that quotes ACCC:
ACL places the obligation on the retailer for a refund or replacement.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
"You can approach the manufacturer or importer directly, however, you will only be entitled to recover costs from them, which include an amount for reduction in the product’s value and in some cases compensation for damages or loss. You cannot demand a repair, replacement or refund from the manufacturer."
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
So I suggest you stop sharing incorrect information about the ACL.
you will only be entitled to recover costs from them, which include an amount for reduction in the product’s value
-you, also ACCC
More relivant to OP:
Repair, replacement or refund
OP asked for an 11 pro, got an 11 pro, but did not like that two separate features, listed separately on Apples website (night mode and the telephoto lens) did not work together. OP seems to have confused Apple for Huawei.
@This Guy: Claiming damages from Apple is a pointless and time consuming exercise. They are not entitled to a replacement, refund or repair from Apple under Consumer Law as they are not the retailer they purchased it from.
@DogGunn: It's $300 between the 11 and 11 pro. OP's argument it that the telephoto camera is not working properly. The main difference between the 11 and 11 pro is the telephoto, so the telephoto not working properly should be $300.
That said, I believe this is a misunderstanding on OP's side and not a fault or miscommunication that falls under ACL.
Apple promised best camera ever.
You bought into the marketing.
- It’s the world’s most popular camera - because they sell more
- Shoot and edit the highest-quality video in a smartphone. iPhone 11 shoots beautifully sharp 4K video at 60 fps across all its cameras. Quality meaning resolution, not wrong
- You’ve never shot with anything like it. OP agrees ;)
- Get beautiful images in drastically lower light. No specifics here, all bias views
- Expanded field of view. iPhone 11 Pro lets you zoom from the Telephoto all the way out to the new Ultra Wide camera, for an impressive 4× optical zoom range. Impressive is a bias view
- The result is a photographic experience like no other. Bias, and true for you I guess?
Even more cool camera features.
* 40% more light capture with Telephoto
* 36% brighter True Tone flash with Slow Sync
* Zero shutter lag
* 6 lighting effects in Portrait mode
* 2× more height for panos
* OIS optical image
Ahh marketing..
Apple promised best camera ever. 11pro not in their top 5 of all time. Misleading.
Unfortunately 'best' could be considered puffery as it's a phone camera. Technically it clearly is Apple's most feature filled, with three physical camera manipulated by a cutting edge CPU. In that way it could be considered Apple's best. Apple could also argue it is their best effort, or many other BS lines to justify the use of best.
Further, unfortunately you disliking the results is 'only' your subjective opinion. I dislike this, but ACL is set up that way to discourage abuse of ACL (I dislike how fast this car is, give me a refund).
rompastompa wrote exactly the same thing, but differently.
You're absolutely correct, bruv. I've dealt with Apple a whole lot (I work in the I.T. dept and have had to deal with them) - the fantastic thing about Apple is the pure fact that you can go straight to them to deal with the warranty. Too many numpties on here have zero idea what they;'re talking about. The ACL doesn't stipulate that the consumer can go back to the actual manufacturer, that's why they are superior, consumers can take their faulty device to an Apple store and have it dealt with on the spot.
OP's just not happy with the camera quality.
Anyone else having mail problems with iOS 13?
Yes; I get black text of jibberish sometimes on my iPad mini 4
My iPhone 6s is unreliable in accessing my email accounts (Microsoft, yahoo and gmail accounts) since updating the operating system. iPad on iOS 12.x is fine. I read somewhere to try deleting and then re-adding the email account. I deleted an account but I am unable to add the account. Tried resetting phone with no success. iOS 13.1.3 sucks. Sigh
Try using a third-Party email app? I prefer the GMail app (on my iPad, I have an Android phone). It has a built in browser so clicking on links seems faster than Apple email’s app switch to Safari. I’m on IOS 13.1.2, haven’t updated yet.
Deemed as software
I'd hardly call that a fault with the physical product
First - VCAT is the wrong way to go for any issue with a product, and you’re just wasting your time and money going down that path.
You need to be talking to Consumer Affairs Victoria, who will help you handle this under Australian Consumer Law.
However, based on my knowledge of ACL, my knowledge of Apple, and reading that service report - your issue is going to be going to be classed as minor. This means that the manufacturer or business that sold it has the right in law to determine how the problem is handled.
In this case, they have determined that it is a software problem, and that replacing the physical device won’t resolve the root cause problem you’ve presented with - which is a lawful outcome. I’d bet you the price of a new iPhone 11 that this is what Consumer Affairs Victoria are going to tell you.
Secondly, for the benefit of @lunchbox99, under ACL - all parties are responsible for warranty claims generally. In this instance, because it was determined by the manufacturer to be a minor failure, Apple was right to refer the OP to the place of purchase as they aren’t responsible for claims in this instance.
Thirdly, the OP will also be told by Consumer Affairs Victoria that they haven’t taken all reasonable efforts to resolve the issue, which is why the VCAT claim is going to be waste of time also.
The smart advice to the OP:
1) Call Apple, explain the steps already taken to address the issue, inc. seeking service and restoring the OS clean and still being able to replicate the problem.
2) Wait for the first person to put you through to a Senior Advisor, who will own the issue, get information, logs and data from you, and escalate this to the relevant Engineering team for advice and follow up.
3) If you don’t feel you issue is addressed within a reasonable period of time (one month would be reasonable), then go to Consumer Affairs Victoria and proceed from there.
I don't think the report says that at all. I think it says there is no problem (working as designed), however image quality might be further improved with software updates.
And for your benefit, ACL places the obligation on the retailer for a refund or replacement.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
"You can approach the manufacturer or importer directly, however, you will only be entitled to recover costs from them, which include an amount for reduction in the product’s value and in some cases compensation for damages or loss. You cannot demand a repair, replacement or refund from the manufacturer."
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
I think people are confusing what the ACL does. It does not give you rights to a refund or replacement for buyers remorse.
You can't go buy a Toyota Corolla and then claim that you thought the car should go as fast as a Lambo, or be the quality of a BMW, or the mileage of a hybrid. It was YOUR responsibility to satisfy yourself that the product specifications met your needs. Where there is a problem is if the corolla is faulty, or poor quality, or didn't meet advertised performance criteria.
So in the case of the phone, OP should have read reviews and decided if an iPhone 11 low light photos met their needs. Discovering after purchase that they do not, does not mean the product is faulty or has a remedy under ACL.
Caveat Emptor
You’re off the mark.
The notes mentioned that they used a known good device to test this camera and could not reproduce the issue. In other words, they took 2 identical photos with OP’s phone and an identical model, and could not create the same “fault” as was in OP’s image of complaint.
Telling OP that the camera will improve with updates is more or less an obvious statement of fact. It’s also a fast way of saying “advised (and proved to, with testing,) the customer that the device is fully functional, and if they’re unhappy with performance then they can rest assured that Apple is always working to improve quality. If they’re still not happy, they can go to the original retailer to seek a potential remedy (i.e change of mind return policy)”
Well I disagree. I think it says OPs phone and the test phone images were the same - so the issue reported by OP was not verified.
In any case, Apple is under no obligation to do anything directly with the customer. They need to argue with the retailer.
That’s what I’m saying. OP’s phone and the test phone created identical images, which is what they mean when they noted “the issue cannot be reproduced”
@Strahany: Oh lol, well we agree then. My guess is that OP just wants to get a refund cause the pixel 4 has better low light photos and is trying to frame it as an ACL issue.
Ironically, if they bought directly from Apple they could return within 2 weeks for any reason including change of mind.
@lunchbox99: “Deemed as software as image processing software”. They ruled out hardware but didn’t rule out software.
Under ACL the retailer is responsible for addressing customer problems with faulty products.
That is why Apple said… ""They said to take it back the store I purchased.""
They will sort it out for you.
I would also recommend that OP goes to the original retailer, but I don’t want to subject another poor retail worker to the stupidity-driven rage of this person.
That letter doesn't say your phone is faulty at all.
Post the images which you think are faulty. Grain in images is normal depending on the available light. You'll see grain with a camera that's $5000.
Enhance
The letter does not admit a faulty phone at all - why are you claiming this? It says that they found NO fault with the phone and that if you are still unhappy to pursue this with the retailer.
Apple - 2 customer services reps agreed photos were not acceptable.
In writing?
I saved the chat transcript so I have one of them.
@John678: Then you might have a case. Nothing you originally wrote made it look like there is a fault.
btw, did you do a side by side comparison of the photos from your phone to another iphone 11 pro?
If they both produce the same quality, just means the camera isn't as great as they make it out to be. if your phone produces noticeably worse photos, sounds like a hardware issue and not software
OP is hell bent in getting replacement. Letter clearly states software update may improve image quality.
The new iPhone cameras smooth out images because the last two generations they've made a big effort in low light. Low light means more grain, so the noise reduction has been amped up a lot, which smooths.
If you take photos in a well lit environment you'll probably find they wont appear smooth.
There are definitely some people who prefer the iphone X camera for example, because that smoothing doesn't happen. But apple has made the choices they've made and that is that.
If you use an alternative camera app it might be able to help.
This is more like a subjective quality issue. Although you might be right, you are just wasting your time trying to get a brand new replacement. When you say things like:
- Bad battery life
- Network reception is not as strong on other device
- Phone keeps lagging
- Image quality is not as expected
- Phone is hot while using
Most of the time they will say: "Its a software problem, you just need to wait for an updates". Its a sad reality, cause if seller keeps replacing a brand new device from these kind of complaints imagine how much they lost and how many people will try to abuse it.
Solution? Find someone who has iPhone 11 pro, test it out yourself and compare it with yours. Check the image, whether there's a night and day difference(also check if you are on same ios updates). Even if you do this, I doubt that you will get a brand new replacement unless the difference in image quality is very huge. Otherwise just use your iPhone or sell it to get different one.
Real MVP.
Can you upload a photo taken on it so we can see OP?
Could it be the heic vs jpg setting?
The iPhone ‘Pro’ models have camera feature which relies more heavily on software algorithms than before.
Apple themselves announced that the specific camera feature called ‘deep fusion’ which uses software to combine multiple pictures taken by all camera’s, will be coming with a software update.
This feature is something the iPhone Pro will only be capable of after a certain update.
(Apple has announced specific features this way for previous iPhone models as well).
Since the software side of the camera is so complicated there is a chance for a bug of two to be present in the camera software in early versions of iOS 13.
I understand getting frustrated when you paid so much for the latest iPhone and the camera image quality is far from expected, but my suggestion is to wait until you get this ‘deep fusion’ update which is a major update for the camera system in the iPhone Pro.
(The deep fusion feature update is currently in the ‘public beta’ update of iOS 13 so it should be coming out for everyone soon).
It could simply be the case that it is a software problem instead of a hardware one. My guess is with such a major feature update such as ‘deep fusion’, Apple will have spent extra effort in refining the camera software so that it works as advertised.
Just my two cents.
Another note which may be obvious to many, is to go for the ‘S’ models.
The ‘S’ models are basically the 2nd revision of an all-new design, making it more likely to be ‘bug’ free and even more optimised than the 1st revision models.
They have made it a bit trickier recently to differentiate the 2nd revision models since the 6S.
Apple has also recently been introducing new features into the 2nd revision iPhones.
The iPhone 8 is the 2nd revision of the iPhone 7, but it also got wireless charging (quite a simple feature).
The iPhone 11 is the 2nd revision of the XR (+ the dual-camera from XS & complex camera software).
And the iPhone 11 Pro is basically a 3rd revision of the iPhone X design, but in adding such a complex new feature (3-camera design & complex camera software etc) it is basically like a 1st revision product.
One exception seemed to be the iPhone X, which it appears they put extra effort into and therefore even with its all-new features was a solid phone.
In an interesting twist, if you happen to go looking for the feature, you won’t find it. According to Apple, Deep Fusion’s existence is purposefully hidden from users
-your link, not Apple
also not Apple
The feature only kicks in in medium and low-light, but not for Dark Mode photos at all.
I also don't think what Apple defines as low light is what non photographers (like OP, you or myself) generally consider low light.
Yet again, the quality of many posts these days is atrocious.
Are you reading them on an iPhone 11?
Who do I go to to get a refund? ASIC? VCAT?
You Phone is not faulty
Your images are not as you expected..
why tell lies?
A phone is no an SLR camera.
sell the phone. buy a cheap one and an SLR camera
Post the original uncompressed image, and we will be the judge 😗
Cheers
Buy an Android.