Unreasonable and Irrational Parking Penalties Now in Force in NSW

ALERT! UNREASONABLE AND IRRATIONAL PARKING PENALTIES NOW IN FORCE IN NSW

The fine for parking in a NO STOPPING ZONE is now $268.

Fine. I get that. Its a big red sign.
Its there for safety reasons so you shouldn't be parked there.

However…..

The fine for parking within 10m of a corner (where there is no sign) is now $344 PLUS 2 demerit points!

Now think about it this way….

You innocently park your car 6 metres from the corner in a quiet residential street for the week. So there is little or no traffic most of the time.
Its a safe distance well away from the corner (6 metres was acceptable by the old standard).

Your local parking ranger walks past each day and issues you with a Parking penalty.

At the end of the week you have 7 parking tickets on your windscreen and have subsequently accumulated over $2000 in parking fines and lost your license as well (14 demerit points lost).
And you werent even driving your car AND there were no parking signs!

Here is the link to all the new fines.
https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/deme...

Note that no demerit point penalties apply to penalties in relation to sign posted areas indicating where you CANNOT stop or park. Even though these are more severe infringements.

It just doesnt make sense.

Non sign posted Offences should be treated as a minor offence and incur the same penalty as parking in a NO PARKING zone. That is only $114.

This rule has to change!

Post any comments here about how you feel about this and what we can do about this

Comments

    • +21 votes

      Its not the offence thats unfair.
      Its the penalty itself.

      • +1 vote

        Its the penalty itself

        If the penalty was 'fair', some would just consider it a parking fee.

        The point of the fine can be to act as a financial deterrent (or 'revenue raising' depending on your point of view).

        Non sign posted Offences should be treated as a minor offence and incur the same penalty as parking in a NO PARKING zone. That is only $114.

        But there there would be signs absolutely everywhere, on every single corner of every road.

        If you're a licenced driver it should mean that you know the rules and agree to abide by them etc. Granted there are heaps that some people won't ever need to know about (towing limits etc if you never need to tow) but if there were signs for everything it could look too complicated to comprehend, and some people would use that as the excuse for their infringements.

        • +9 votes

          The point of the fine can be to act as a financial deterrent

          No it isn't.

          If it was it would be means tested. As it isn't means tested it's hardly going to be a financial deterrent for the wealthy.

          • +7 votes

            @Diji1: Those with money may afford to pay the fine, but can’t legally pay for the demerit points.

          •  

            @Diji1:

            hardly going to be a financial deterrent for the wealthy.

            Like I said, it can be a deterrent, but for the wealthy they could just see it as a parking fee.

            Also, what whooah1979 said

          •  

            @Diji1: How are you going to means test?

            By asset, cashflow, Estimated networth?

            Who is going to foot the accountants' bill for means testing?

            • +2 votes

              @tshow: Not that hard. A simple income test based on previous tax return. Hardly anything more advanced than what the government is currently doing.

              • +5 votes

                @SlavOz: "the rich don't pay tax".

          • +3 votes

            @Diji1: This. I have no problem with most fines but the fact that so many countries complain about wealth inequality yet knowingly have endless glitches in the system designed to help the rich is appalling. A $400 fine for a CEO earning $2 million a year is nothing while for so many families that fine will need to be paid off in installments and deter them from ever driving anywhere again. The CEO meanwhile will reinforced with the message that he's above the law. If I need to pay half my weekly wage for a speeding fine there's no reason a rich man can't.

            I think Finland has such a system in place. The CEO of NOKIA famously got a speeding fine of like 100k.

            • +2 votes

              @SlavOz: The system you propose has a few issues. Notice first I am undesided on this subject so I am not favouring one side or the other yet, just showing you the arguments against. First is that we are all equal in front of the law, you can not fine people more because they earn more, this is a moral issue, in the same sense, you can not make rich people pay more for product because they are rich, defeats the whole purpose of people wanting to earn more money and some rich people do work a lot and do deserve the benefits. Second, nobody likes to be fined and I doubt that rich people are parking anywhere because it is only a couple hundred fines. Third, demerit points should be deterent enough for anyone not to break the law regardless of the amount, maybe the problem here is that there is a fine with money and instead fines should be paid with prison or demerit points.

              •  

                @Williwill:

                I doubt that rich people are parking anywhere because it is only a couple hundred fines.

                Eastern Suburbs of Sydney (especially Kings X, Double Bay) where parking can be difficult. Plenty of Lambos, Rollers, Fazzas etc parked illegally because the owners didn't care about the fine. This is why they have added points to parking fines that were previously "fine only".

        • +2 votes

          Come on - being penalised 2 demerit points when you are not even driving ???

          • -3 votes

            @Amayzingone: Remind me to use that as an excuse when I park my car on the Harbour Bridge or freeway to get a good selfie.

      • +1 vote

        I got hit with this fine in 2010. Was $223 and no demerit point. I was about 8m from their supposed intersection. The start of the intersection is unclear and I could be anywhere from 8-11 meters from the intersection depend on where you define the intersection start. I sent a review letter and said I will take it to court if need be and they waived it with the reason: "I have a spotless driving record and this is my first ever offence".

        Two weeks later they erected a no stopping sign exactly where I got fined.

      •  

        Just drop the financial penalty and deduct 1 demerit point. Done. Then the poor and the wealthy are treated equal.

        You can't put no parking signs at every intersection. But for now in the team world, just don't Park there.

      •  

        if i was in charge of making up the rules i would have prison sentences attached to parking fines :)

        Do the crime you do harsh time.

  • +34 votes

    Spare a thought for cars that need to exit from the adjoining Rd/St.

    I go through this fairly often exiting my quiet Rd.

    There's always some numpty, in a dual cab or van, that parks less than 10 metres and makes it that little bit more dangerous exiting than it needs to be.

    Park +10m and take a photo to be sure…

    • +8 votes

      Agree 100% and suffer the same problem but surely the fine for that should not exceed that of parking in a NO STOPPING zone.

      •  

        Will the fine and demerit points deter you from parking within 10 metres of a corner? Yes.

        Okay, thank you, next..

    •  

      Park +10m and take a photo to be sure…

      Fook sake nowadays…

      There was a lady earlier in the year!! Read below

      https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/on-th...

      She was very lucky to somehow produce a photo of before the Pole was installed.

    •  

      "numpty": a stupid or ineffectual person.

      You learn something new everyday on OzB.

  • +7 votes

    At the end of the week you have 7 parking tickets on your windscreen and have subsequently accumulated over $2000 in parking fines and lost your license as well (14 demerit points lost).

    That's not how it works. After the second day, your car is just going to get towed.

    Post any comments here about how you feel about this and what we can do about this

    Just don't park near a corner?

    • -1 vote

      The DO NOT tow cars away in NSW. (I wish they did)
      Maybe in QLD they do. Not in NSW
      Its far too complicated in NSW and takes weeks to organise

      • +8 votes

        Cars get towed in NSW all the time for parking in clearways.

        •  

          Yeah you can actually see TOWIE's waiting along The Grand Parade in Brighton Le Sands just before 3 pm.

        •  

          Cars get towed in Vic, Stud Rd is a great example

      • +2 votes

        I'm not sure why you got negged, as it really depends on whether it's an RMS owned road, or council owned. If it's RMS owned (i.e. a main road) then you probably will get towed. If it's council owned, the car would more likely turn into a pile of rust long before it gets towed.

  •  

    Post any comments here about how you feel about this and what we can do about this

    Roads and park maintenance doesn’t come cheap. Rates only cover so much and the rest have to be paid for using fines.

    • +10 votes

      Agree but 2 demerit points per offence doesnt contribute to any roads maintenance

    • +5 votes

      "Roads and park maintenance doesn’t come cheap". No, actually, the real problem is that councils are so inefficient and waste so much money. Anything councils build costs 5 to 10 times are much as it should, like $400,000 just to fence off an area in council parkland for dogs (a local example from here in Brisbane).

      Councils, like government in general, are kleptomanicas of the first degree, constantly fleecing the people that they are supposed to represent.

      •  

        The SMH reported last week that “The NSW government expects to bring in $810 million in fines next financial year, an increase of 25 per cent”.

        It should be enough to pay for Gladys' stadium rebuild.

  • +2 votes

    OP how about invest in a trundle wheel?

  • +12 votes

    At the end of the week you have 7 parking tickets on your windscreen and have subsequently accumulated over $2000 in parking fines and lost your license as well (14 demerit points lost).

    Oh god. I'm on a 52 day cruise. I'm going to jail when I get home.

    They should just use the old rule. Solid white line, don't park by the side. No one carries a bloody tape measure around.

    • +4 votes

      Well that would make perfect sence

    • -4 votes

      Solid white line, don't park by the side. No one carries a bloody tape measure around.

      Painting every corner is costly and a hazard for the council/road workers.

      • +5 votes

        They do it in LA and may other places.
        Its also done ad-hoc around Sydney

        • -1 vote

          I’m glad that we don’t live in LA. People get shot over parking in LA.

          • +3 votes

            @whooah1979: Ever tried driving in LA? You'd realise a lot of those people are probably shooting themselves. Terrible city for getting around. Their public transport is incredibly worse than most Australian capital cities.

            • +1 vote

              @toristo: Absolutely. A bunch of suburbs looking for a city centre. The lack of public transport is terrible. Go to SAN Francisco, much better.

            • +3 votes

              @toristo: I recently drove from Palm Springs to LAX at 5am. I have never been so scared in my life. People swerving all over the place and half the cars are damaged to a point where they wouldn't pass rego here in Aus. Crazy

              • +5 votes

                @Slurped: You know you were meant to be on the right hand side of the road, yeah?

      • +2 votes

        In that case, we should also be getting other drivers to issue the fines as it would be cheaper and safer for the council workers. Also less work.

        •  

          we should also be getting other drivers to issue the fines as it would be cheaper and safer for the council workers. Also less work.

          Many councils in Sydney have online reporting facilities for unlawful parking.
          https://help.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/s/article/Illegally-...

          • +1 vote

            @whooah1979: Now they just need to extend those facilities so drivers can print and stick those fines on the windshields.

            Could even download an app to resolve the fine on the spot.

            •  

              @tshow: Drivers can’t issue penalty notices unless they’re an authorised person under the Act

              authorised person means—
              (a) a police officer, or
              (b) a person who is appointed by the Authority as an authorised officer for the purposes of the provision in which the expression is used.
              Note 1.
              Authority is defined in the Act.

              • +4 votes

                @whooah1979:

                (b) a person who is appointed by the Authority as an authorised officer for the purposes of the provision in which the expression is used.

                It is time to give them the authoritah!

                On a serious note, they can afford to paint the lines but it will be an expense. One they will likely be able to recoup given the hefty fines they're dishing.

                I'm not against fines for parking near corners. Where I am, parking is so scarce that people park in the corner itself. I simply object the idea that drivers are expected to be able to estimate 10m from a nominated corner. Tee up a whole bunch of people and ask them to mark 10m, I'm sure you'd easily get a 20% variation either way.

                If a law is made that effects a sufficiently large group of people, there is an increased expectation for objectivity and definition.

                •  

                  @tshow: I think it's very unlikely you'd get a fine if you parked 8-9m from the corner, and I dare say you'd win a challenge if you took it to court on the basis that a reasonable person would estimate the distance as sufficient.

                  The distance was likely chosen to take into account the expected variance in human distance estimation. Probably everyone was parking <4m away under the old 6m rule so they bumped it up to 10 so that people actually park >6m away…

                  •  

                    @abb: I wouldn't want to go to court to find out.

                    •  

                      @tshow: I look forward to seeing you with your tape measure when parking then ;)

                      •  

                        @abb: I always carry a tape measure… for uh. Yes yes… "parking" ;)

  • +6 votes

    If you know your traffic rules then you would know it is illegal to park within 10m of the corner. So you can hardly "innocently" park 6m from the corner.
    By the way, it has been 10m in Victoria for as long as I can remember

    •  

      That is correct.

      Strange how everyone I approach about this says they didnt know.
      Never has anyone said. "Oh yes of course.I knew that"
      Others just say "There is no sign"
      PS I live on a corner so am concerned about parking on corners.

      So the fact is that the majority of drivers DO NOT know this rule.
      Obviously its not even asked during the driving test.
      It should be a compulsory question given one must park their car somewhere every day.

      • +2 votes

        So the fact is that the majority of drivers DO NOT know this rule.
        Obviously its not even asked during the driving test.
        It should be a compulsory question given one must park their car somewhere every day.

        And people question why we live in a nanny state.

        Whether its in the road book or not, one should always think about the possible outcomes of their actions. Parking so close to a corner creates a blind spot for other cars and pedestrians crossing. Theres also a higher chance of your car being hit.

      •  

        So the fact is that the majority of drivers DO NOT know this rule.
        Obviously its not even asked during the driving test.
        It should be a compulsory question given one must park their car somewhere every day.

        That's the most assumptions I have ever seen in a single post …

      • +1 vote

        Can confirm. Had no idea about this rule and I've definitely parked too close to a corner just 2 days ago come to think of it.

        We should have road markings stating where we can and can't park if this is a thing.

    • +4 votes

      I'm a bad boy. I park 9.9m from the corner…

      • +4 votes

        You got 9.9 problems…

        • +8 votes

          But the corner ain't one.

  • +10 votes

    he fine for parking within 10m of a corner (where there is no sign)

    Can you imagine a sign in every single corner?
    It should be common sense that parking close to a corner is very dangerous (blind spot for cars and pedestrians crossing). A fine will whack the common sense back into the offenders head.

    6 meters is only about 1 car space length (for a Camry), 10m is about 2 car space length, which is about right imo.

    • -1 vote

      So you agree on paying around $100 more than parking in a clearly marked NO STOPPING zone and be penalised 2 demerit points on top !

      •  

        From a personal and emotional perspective?

        • +1 vote

          From an ozbargainer's perspective.

          • +5 votes

            @DisabledUser102420: From an ozbargainers perspective, I wouldn't want to pay a cent, even if I punched someone in their face. I would also have to argue that their face interfered with the path of my fist, then take their face to VCAT. This would be after making an ozbargain forum post though, asking for 'opinions', but not really if I don't agree with it :)

            •  
          • +10 votes

            @DisabledUser102420: Parking in a clearly marked NO STOPPING zone, and paying $100 less than parking within 10m of a corner, is a bargain.

            Post as deal.

            •  

              @Baysew: I got penalty boxed last time i posted a funny deal…

            •  

              @Baysew: When you put it that way - YES!

              NO PARKING @ $114 is a better deal

      •  

        yes I do, mind you I won't ever be fined for either so I don't care how much they increase it too. both fines are for doing incredibly dangerous things that put others at risk.

  • +4 votes

    The fine for parking within 10m of a corner (where there is no sign) is now $344 PLUS 2 demerit points!

    well i mean there is a big obvious corner there. maybe you shouldn't park unsafely, making drivers have to unsafely navigate around you

  • +9 votes

    Good lord. Drama Much?

    It's simple. If you don't want to pay fines and don't want points added to your license, don't park like an arsehole. It really isn't that hard.

    InB4: "But, but, but… ReVeNuE rAiSiNg"

    PS: *it's

  • +1 vote

    we thankyou for your contribution to the states revenue fund

  • +3 votes

    FIGHT THE POWER. FORGET POVERTY AND CLIMATE CHANGE - PARKING IS THE GREATEST THREAT TO OUR COUNTRY. MAKE AUSTRALIA GREAT AGAIN. Free box of sarcasm with every demerit point…

    •  

      So we should also issue fines and demerit points to poor people and I presume the climate for changing on us?

      • +2 votes

        No… That's the liberal national party approach…

        •  

          Any evidence?

          • +2 votes

            @tshow: Robodebts that aren't based on real debts, more funding for non-renewable energy producers, cards-only for welfare recipients, drug testing centrelink recipients (but not politicians etc).

            None of which is to say right now that we gave a better opposition… And we need to remember that the opposition introduced many of the policies that the lnp have tightened the screws on.

            • -3 votes

              @TheRealCher: Robodebts aren't fines. Some are incorrectly computed debts. Not fines.

              Refusing to write a blank cheque to the energy producer of your choice isn't fining climate change.

              drug testing centrelink recipients (but not politicians etc)

              A requirement for drug testing to get free money is hardly comparable to testing elected politicians earning a salary.

              •  
                •  

                  @TheRealCher: Sometimes when you make a claim, it is advisable for it to contain some truth.

              •  

                @tshow:

                earning

                I see what you did there.

                •  

                  @BartholemewH: Sorry. I'll correct myself.

                  A requirement for drug testing to get free money earn welfare is hardly comparable to testing elected politicians earning a salary.

  •  

    As its not timed you can only be infringed once if the car hasn't moved. It can be towed if it's deemed dangerous.

    PS: Clearways get towed all the time, people ring the Police and report it stolen etc, eventually they figure it out. Usually the towie dumps it in another restricted parking area and they get another penalty. Keeps work interepsting.

    We have had some park in a NO STOPPING and go away for a month, 20 penalties later and they were all cancelled.

    Some rich types in the City consider a $150+ fine cheap for all day parking in front of the office etc and pay it willingly.

    •  

      Incorrect !

      You can be fined once a day and every day for any infringement even if the car hasnt moved.
      Confirmed by my local council rangers

      And councils dont have the power to tow cars parked illegally in NSW.
      Its a very lengthy process and only applies to dumped cars

  •  

    lol people whinge about of everything now, don't they. it's in the rule book, follow it or get fined. I swear, build a bridge and get over it.

    • +1 vote

      Yeah, and get fined for lack of DA on the bridge building attempt.

  • +1 vote

    How about you starting parking correctly and these Unreasonable and Irrational Parking Penalties won't be an issue.

  • +4 votes

    What did you expect, OP? It's been evident that the majority of Ozbargainers are obedient citizens who worship authority. Fines like these could double or triple and you'd still get the same old responses of "just follow the rules like me and you won't have a reason to complain". Maybe if penalties like these went up tenfold then we wouldn't have any wrongdoing at all! Police state, y'all! :-P

    • -1 vote

      NSW along with councils have recently reduced penalty amounts. I say ramp them up.

    • +1 vote

      Nothing to do with money. An over-tendency to conform to authority is grounded in fear of having to ever do anything for yourself. Those who conform do so because they know it means the government has full control of everything and anything - which means there's no responsibility to do anything for yourself.

      •  

        Hmm, must be a sale on tinfoil hats at the moment. The majority of fines are to discourage some people from being dicks to other people. I agree some are numpty level but the majority make sense. If you are just doing something to annoy other people you aren’t being a rebel, you are just a being a selfish dick.

        • +1 vote

          Sure - because it's not like the government would ever lie to us. Didn't you know it's all saintly preachers who work in government positions, which is why no government in history has ever done bad things or lied to rort its people…

          Anyway, off topic. I think it's debatable whether fines actually work for a variety of reasons already demonstrated in the past. The State clearly has no interest in making roads safer or more peaceful since they willingly give any half-blind idiot a license and would rather wait until they stuff up to fine them.

          •  

            @SlavOz: you're just not getting it are you? A lot of fines/rules are there to stop people being dicks and nuisance to others, to keep the place livable and not become a third world dumpster. Doesn't have anything to do with "the government has full control of everything and anything"

            The State clearly has no interest in making roads safer or more peaceful since they willingly give any half-blind idiot a license

            This makes me doubt that you actually have a driver's licence.

            •  

              @payton: You don't get it. It's one thing to set fines to prevent bad behaviour. It's another thing to allow people to commit bad behaviour just so you can fine them for it.

              If the government wanted to stop speeding, they could quite easily do it. But that would mean a significantly massive cut in revenue. They don't want that. Frankly, they can't afford it. That's hundreds of millions down the drain. They'd rather let you keep speeding just so they can catch you doing it.

              Here's an experiment if you don't believe me - flash your headlights at oncoming traffic and watch how many of them slow down. Quite a lot. Technically, you're making the roads safer by causing drivers to slow down. Does the government appreciate it? No - in fact they'll fine you for it. How dare you warm people of our presence! You need to mind your own business and let them keep speeding so we can make our money!

              •  

                @SlavOz:

                flash your headlights at oncoming traffic

                Headlight flashing at a short distance may lead other drivers to cause an accident.

          •  

            @SlavOz: I think the Scandi idea where you tie the fine to what people earn is better but, I agree, that fines don’t always work. Most people, moderately, speed but the fear of a big fine does make most people think twice in some situations. Unless we do down the Minority report path it is hard to anticipate which blind idiot is going to cause the problem.

            Several years ago I was in Mauritius and all the bus drivers went on strike because the Government raised the fines on breaking the road rules. Things that make you go hmmmm.

      •  

        Non sequitur, mate.

        •  

          Ahh, thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who really think like that. Mind you, with the laws this current Government is bringing in I might be looking for the tin foil hat for myself.

      •  

        Or it could be we just aren't aholes that think safety rules are simply there as an inconvenience to our god given right to park like an ahole. these particular rules aren't just the government being mean or aholes, they exist for very obvious safety reasons and they are some of the simplest rules to obey. I have sympathy for some of the harsher punishments around the more obscure rules or ones that are easily accidentally broken but these aint them.

    •  

      You will always have the ignorate fools that claim there is no sign or they didnt know the rule.