Dash cam footage of mechanic

Bond on 06/11/2019 - 09:27

I have a dilemma and thought I seek out some opinions here.
The family 4x4 was booked in at our a local Auto service center ( a national chain) for wheel alignment after a new suspension was fitted.

Upon reviewing the dashcam footage we saw that the mechanic made super nasty comments about the tissue boxes using "choice language", abusing other drivers and worst of all doing 72km/h in residential zones.

The alignment done so poorly that we had to bring it to another place and $$ again. I was back at the shop and after seeing how the manager dealt with staff I decided to cancel the booking (to get it fixed) and rather pay than complain, which I was planning on doing once they got the job right.

I guess the guy would easily have access to our address/phone details if I complained at the store directly. Same applies if I went via their HQ. I am sure this would not be an isolated incident so what can I do?
Given the mechanics language and attitude on the road as seen and heard on the dashcam I would worry about retaliation.

What would you do?

Automotive

Comments

  • SydEng on 06/11/2019 - 09:31
    +11

    Firstly, Do you want to name and shame this chain?

      • Scrooge McDuck on 06/11/2019 - 14:39
        +10

        Just the particular franchise then?

        • pegaxs on 06/11/2019 - 15:20
          +4

          That would make a lot more sense. Or how about just the two arseholes OP had to deal with?

          • Bryanalves on 07/11/2019 - 14:08
            -1

            @pegaxs: What is choice language and what shop is this? Why are you speaking in code?

            • pegaxs on 07/11/2019 - 16:27
              +3

              @Bryanalves:

              What is choice language

              I don’t really know…

              what shop is this

              I don’t really care.

              Why are you speaking in code?

              I’m not OP. Perhaps you should ask them.

      • capslock janitor on 08/11/2019 - 10:58
        -2

        So you rather dox 2 workers than let HQ do something about it first?

        • pegaxs on 08/11/2019 - 11:21
          -2

          Ahhhh, see, now you are making shit up that I didn’t say and twisting it to suit your outrage narrative… gotta get them upvotes!

          What I actually said was “don’t name and shame a whole national chain over the actions of two arsehole franchise employees.”

          By all means, take up the poor workmanship and the managers attitude to staff members/customers with HQ. They would probably appreciate the feedback, I would imagine.

          And I didn’t say to “dox” anyone. You obviously learned a new internet buzz word and wanted to test drive it.

          It’s hardly “doxing” to say “Don’t take your car for a wheel alignment at *insert_business_name/location*, because *mechanic’s_name* turns out sub par quality work and *manager’s_name* doesn’t care and is rude to staff and customers…”

    • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 10:10
      +2

      We had really good experiences with 2 of their stores. And one mechanic at that particular place did a great job with the wheel alignment for the off-roader, which is hard to find. Unfortunately he left and we took a chance. I don't think I want to name and shame the entire chain. But they do need to know what their staff are up to. Speeding in neighborhood zones is not ok neither is making derogatory comments about people's belonging in cars.

      • gummibear on 06/11/2019 - 23:24
        +15

        Give the footage to the police, that might be enough for a speeding fine at least

        • capslock janitor on 08/11/2019 - 12:28
          +1

          Dumbass workers speeding in a customer's car? Make sure you keep the footage in case a there's a letter in your mailbox

      • abb on 08/11/2019 - 12:33
        +4

        making derogatory comments about people's belonging in cars

        This doesn't really harm anyone (unless you listen to a recording of him in the car). You've never thought to yourself "wow, that person is an idiot" ? This is the same thing, you just happened to record his thoughts. He thought he was alone, it's not like he said it to your face…

        The speeding is a fair enough thing to complain about though.

        The shoddy workmanship too. Leave a bad review on Google or something to warn others :)

      • juki on 09/11/2019 - 00:42

        show it to their boss or the parent company and use it to request a refund. You are probably not the only victim and i wouldnt want to employ this sort of person so i'd be happy to know.

        I wonder what they could say about a tissue box, i guess that boils down to some people are idiots

  • ronnknee on 06/11/2019 - 09:35
    +22

    Not sure about the ethics/legalities of recording private conversations without their consent.

    the mechanic made super nasty comments about the tissue boxes using "choice language", abusing other drivers

    Unless you were lip reading, I would omit this. However, feel free to complain about speeding in residential zone. I feel that's a valid point.

    • profar on 06/11/2019 - 09:40
      +1

      Don't you think OP has a voice recording or is that too smart thinking ?

      • ronnknee on 06/11/2019 - 09:41
        +2

        Of course, but owning up to it could get OP in legal trouble.

        • k-rokfm on 06/11/2019 - 09:52
          +4

          Should be common knowledge for mechanics that a lot of cars these days have dash cams

          • ronnknee on 08/11/2019 - 00:01
            +5

            @k-rokfm: That doesn't make it okay to record private conversations.

            • capslock janitor on 08/11/2019 - 12:31
              +2

              @ronnknee: You come into my house or property for cleaning you don't ask if there are security cameras or throw a house party when I'm not home. In this case my car and what happens in it is my business?

              • ronnknee on 08/11/2019 - 13:44
                +6

                @capslock janitor: Unfortunately that's irrelevant to the law, and that's a terrible analogy. A more accurate analogy is I come over your place (car workshop) and drop off my laptop (car) for you to fix. My laptop (car) is secretly recording your conversations. Even though the camera and microphone are visible, that does not make it okay on two levels:

                1. The person recording is not part of the conversation.
                2. None of the parties are informed or provided consent.

                Here is some reading material to keep yourself informed.

                • capslock janitor on 08/11/2019 - 13:48

                  @ronnknee: my bad so can;t do much on verbal side. Only physical damages.

                  Reminds me of the time that Indian guy on MAFS recorded his "wife" complaining about the marriage ehhe

                • MrMoo on 08/11/2019 - 14:53
                  +1

                  @ronnknee: Your analogy is not correct. Dropping off a laptop and recording on private property is illegal.

                  The recording happened in a public place and inside a vehicle that the OP Owns.

                  The correct analogy would be you saw an open laptop in someones garden, walked past it on a sidewalk where you were video and voice recorded. It is not illegal.

                  • ronnknee on 08/11/2019 - 15:32

                    @MrMoo: Is a workshop a public space? Is inside a car a public place? Do random people normally walk in an out?

                    • MrMoo on 08/11/2019 - 15:44

                      @ronnknee: No a workshop is not a public place. It is not a social space where people are welcome to hang out. It is private property.

                      A car is a vehicle…

                      I don't understand the point here?

                      A road is a public place. Which is where the recording took place I believe?

                      • ronnknee on 08/11/2019 - 16:08
                        +2

                        @MrMoo: I don't think you understand the issue at all. The law has nothing to do with public space. A private conversation can be taken in public space. In this case, inside an enclosed vehicle where there's a reasonable expectation of privacy, even on the road which is a public space.

                        You all are arguing against me with your opinions but are you able to substantiate by making references to the law?

                        • Zonty on 09/11/2019 - 02:12
                          -1

                          @ronnknee: Lol dash cam is not same as video camera facing by person to another while doing something wrong, its security footage like build at home. You can use dash cam car or security camera at home.
                          Car is belong owner he can do what he like in his car. It not hidden camera in car, it's for safety purpose if crime commit by driver and file report that evidence can be use, as far swearing happen and there is no complain against him that that recording is useless.

                          • ronnknee on 09/11/2019 - 10:02
                            +1

                            @Zonty: You should do research on laws recording video and audio.

                            • Zonty on 10/11/2019 - 00:14
                              -2

                              @ronnknee: I did lol , u need learn law.
                              https://www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/vic/use-of-listeni…

                              Is it illegal owner put dash cam in his own car for recoding? Is owner put intentionally so can record mechanic conversation? No, so recording is for security purposes and can be use if crime happen.
                              If mechanic says he did not do job and charge full money for job then yes recording can be use against him,
                              Swearing is not.
                              lucky you not lawyer I would not go to you lol.

                              • ronnknee on 10/11/2019 - 04:07

                                @Zonty:

                                Is it illegal owner put dash cam in his own car for recoding?

                                No one said this was illegal.

                                Is owner put intentionally so can record mechanic conversation?

                                Owner's intent is irrelevant. I quote the following:

                                A listening device is any device that can be used to overhear, record, monitor or listen to a private conversation, or to the words spoken to or by any person in a private conversation.

                                Even if your intention is to listen to something other than a private conversation, your device may still be a listening device if it is capable of being used to listen to a private conversation.

                                I did lol , u need learn law.

                                Did you even read what you linked?

                                • Zonty on 10/11/2019 - 23:03
                                  -2

                                  @ronnknee: It is a criminal offence for a person to knowingly install, use, or to maintain or repair a listening device used to: it was not any purspose of listening conversation of mechanic.

                                  Knowingly is term of law. So mate why not u start go to law school.

                                  • pegaxs on 11/11/2019 - 07:47
                                    -1

                                    @Zonty: How does one “unknowingly install” a dash cam?

                                    And if it has an audio record function, it is a “listening device”. And since people usually “knowing install” dash cams, it is a criminal offence to “use” it to record conversations that the owner is not a party to. It was 100% used to record the mechanic’s conversation. The whole purpose of this audio recording device is to record conversations inside the vehicle.

                                    If anyone needs to read the law, it’s you, Zonty.

                                    • Zonty on 11/11/2019 - 10:42
                                      -1

                                      @pegaxs: Dash cam people not taking out when service car. You must be mechanic. Also was it invisible hidden to spy mechanic ? What a stupid argument by you.

                                      • pegaxs on 11/11/2019 - 11:07

                                        @Zonty: Huh?

                                        I'm not sure what you are saying or asking, but I'm going to have a long shot guess at it…

                                        A listening device does not have to be concealed to be classed as a listening device. Also, the fact it is visible does not automatically give consent to be recorded.

                                        The only way this recording would be legal would be if OP was in the vehicle at the time OR the mechanic gave consent. And based on the mechanic's stupid comments, I'm pretty sure he didn't give consent to be recorded.

                                        Please, don't give up your day job to become a lawyer…

                                        And don't forget, you only get 5 negs a day. ;)

                • juki on 09/11/2019 - 00:46

                  @ronnknee: what if the dashcam is part of the car, it cant be compared to the laptop - maybe a solution is to have a huge sign over it so the mechanic is aware and gets the job done properly

      • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 09:48
        +7

        Our dash cam may have voice recordings and it's clearly displayed on the dash.

        • ronnknee on 06/11/2019 - 09:57
          +9

          Okay sure. There's no need to convince me. Only making sure you're aware or at least considering the law. The retaliation that you're concerned about may not be physical.

          Is it illegal to make negative/offensive comments about people privately? No.

          Is it illegal to record private conversations of people? Depends on the state, but generally yes.

          Anyway, best wishes on your endeavours.

          • ATangk on 08/11/2019 - 11:49

            @ronnknee: Most shops disconnect the dash cam. It isnt like theyre hidden so the tech must have known it was there…

            • ronnknee on 08/11/2019 - 14:23
              +4

              @ATangk: A lot of you are missing the point. A listening device in plain sight or the highly likelihood of a listening device in presence do not mean automatic consent.

              Try understanding this instead.

              A girl knows a guy has a penis, but does that mean she automatically gives consent?

          • jackary on 09/11/2019 - 08:42

            @ronnknee: Edit: Why beat a dead horse? Deleted comment

        • HighAndDry on 06/11/2019 - 10:18

          Depends on if you want to roll the dice on that constituting consent under the various illegal eavesdropping/recording laws.

    • inherentchoice on 06/11/2019 - 11:47
      +3

      It is an offence to communicate or publish anything about a private conversation or a private activity, if that information has been gained as a result of the use of a surveillance device, including a listening device.

      Source: https://www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/vic/use-of-listeni…

    • snook on 07/11/2019 - 21:07
      -3

      it's illegal to record people without their knowledge

      • Zachary on 07/11/2019 - 21:30
        +1

        not in public space…

        • snook on 07/11/2019 - 21:48

          and in a public space, they have knowledge because they can see you.

          If this guy went further with this and produced the recording, he'd be in trouble.

          • Zachary on 16/11/2019 - 16:51
            -1

            @snook: …no, pretty sure it's free for all in public spaces, irrespective if the recording device, be it audio, video or both, is visibly present or inconspicuously hidden on your person….

            • snook on 01/12/2019 - 22:07

              @Zachary: But we weren't talking about a public space, we were talking about a private conversation and it's illegal. I know, i do compliance stuff where everything is to the letter of the law or useless as evidence.

              IF you gain a recording of someone and they didn't know, you can't use that recording. He was in a private car and did not give consent to be recorded. It is therefore illegal to use that information in any formal proceedings. This could be used informally but you couldn't play it or if you did, you could not do it in a formal manner or let anyone copy it.

              It's so dramatic and blah man ok, but it's true. You walk a line with this stuff and if you cross it, it is not only useless but you are in trouble. This is just how the law is right now.

              • Zachary on 07/12/2019 - 20:30

                @snook: i see….well then I guess say a disclaimer saying that the conversation may be recorded and that if you don't say anything about it, it is automatically assume that you consent to it. Hah!

      • ozgeek on 07/11/2019 - 23:24
        +2

        Roads are public land. You have no expectation of privacy in public areas. Dashcams are legal as long as it is used properly like not use it to record girls undressing lol.

  • nubzy on 06/11/2019 - 09:35
    +9

    Post the footage here or PM the link. I would complain. I don't trust anyone working on my car and try to do as much as I can myself, people have no morals these days and will try and get away with anything.

  • profar on 06/11/2019 - 09:39
    +3

    Given the mechanics language and attitude on the road as seen and heard on the dashcam I would worry about retaliation.

    Why start a post if concerned about retaliation ?

  • Bid Sniper on 06/11/2019 - 09:45
    +21

    I thought the whole reason why they had a waiting rooms is keep customers away from mechanics swearing at cars. When I work my own cars, bikes, computers etc.. I curse them, if its a seized bolt, 44 gallon drum swear jar…

    On a serious note, ask a refund on alignment, just go elsewhere and be done with it. I'm sure the tissue box can deal with it.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 06/11/2019 - 14:46
      +38

      I'm sure the tissue box can deal with it.

      And if not, it's there for itself.

      • TEER3X on 07/11/2019 - 19:42

        Definitely should make the list for greatest of all time posts

  • 87percent on 06/11/2019 - 09:47
    +11

    complained about the "tissue box"? is that code for something?

    • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 09:53
      +4

      Not code. The mechanic implied that only "soft ***** use tissues in cars". Ok. maybe I am a bit offended because me and the kids got hayfever and it's not a choice to have tissue boxes everywhere we go.

      • John Kimble on 06/11/2019 - 10:11
        +45

        haha, what does he use then? Sandpaper? His arm? His sleeve? Or just blow it directly out the window like a footy player?

        Who cares what he thinks about tissue use in cars?

        I would raise that he was speeding in your car though (if I understand correctly).

      • HighAndDry on 06/11/2019 - 10:19
        +68

        That is the smallest thing to be offended over lol.

        • SlavOz on 06/11/2019 - 23:27
          +3

          I was actually shocked when I started reading this thread. Thank God OP mentioned the other issues too - if the only complaint was finding out the mechanic used grown up words OP didn't like, I would've lost hope in humanity. Heaven forbid somebody's vocal cords don't align with your demands!

        • HelpMeiCantSee on 07/11/2019 - 11:13
          +5

          Seriously, op is upset about their TISSUES being called names. No wonder the world is falling apart!

      • one man clan on 06/11/2019 - 10:24
        +15

        Lol that's great. Such fragile masculinity that he'd question using a tissue. What a tough (profanity)

        • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 11:24
          +1

          I never said I was a male! Don't women get to drive 4x4's? ;)

          • ShortyX on 06/11/2019 - 11:33
            +9

            @Bond:

            I never said I was a male!

            My name is Bond. Jane Bond.

            • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 12:08
              +5

              @ShortyX: And a twist in my Martini. No Olives! ;)

          • one man clan on 06/11/2019 - 14:03
            +16

            @Bond: I meant the mechanic

      • 87percent on 06/11/2019 - 11:17
        +2

        must use those MAN sized tissues i see at the supermarket

        • HighAndDry on 06/11/2019 - 11:19
          +2

          As Kimble says, doesn't every man have a roll of sandpaper welded to the roof of their car for this purpose? You pansies.

          Jokes aside, I have tissues and I use them for when I might be eating in the car. I'm sorry if the act of requiring sustenance is unmanly lol.

        • Bid Sniper on 06/11/2019 - 12:23

          caution offensive, thats gender loaded tissues you have there.

      • Bid Sniper on 06/11/2019 - 12:24

        Well you actually proved him right with all this…

        I get the cheapo Aldi Aloe vera ones but if its those fancy Kleenex, go to ACA.

      • Austaurean on 06/11/2019 - 12:37
        +9

        We always keep tissues in our cars, so you are not alone. The mechanuc is just a low life arse..

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/11/2019 - 12:40
          +14

          I always have baby wipes in my car. That mechanic would probably deck me at the pub later.

      • picklewizard on 07/11/2019 - 14:58

        I think if you've taken deep offense to this then you're the one with the problem.

      • psylence on 07/11/2019 - 19:54
        -1

        Wow wtf are you a pusssy this is Australia where we have a sense of humour I talk shit like this to my colleagues and friends all the time and they do the same to me. Start enjoying some of your life instead of crying no wonder you need the fkin tissues.

      • Zachary on 07/11/2019 - 21:29
        +1

        soft ***** use tissues in cars

        soft what???

      • bghunter on 08/11/2019 - 00:24
        +2

        I need to start hiding my toilet rolls when i take my car in for service :)

      • dji1111111 on 09/11/2019 - 16:38

        So what if he said that in his own time. You have no reason to report him over that. You can just think he is a tool and move on. If you have the balls, feel free to confront him over his remarks about tissue box.

        I can't believe you wrote on Ozbargain about him making remarks about tissue box.

  • onetwothreefour on 06/11/2019 - 10:04
    +35

    Ignore the "choice language", they're mechanics talking to other mechanics, what do you expect?

    The speeding and the poor work is something you can raise a complaint about.

  • pegaxs on 06/11/2019 - 10:06
    +1

    Pretty sure the law says you can not record conversations you are not a part of. You certainly cant make them open for public consumption.

    • Yawhae on 07/11/2019 - 17:55
      +1

      The law varies state by state. However is that for all recordings or only recordings where you have an expectation to privacy.

      Does the mechanic have a expectation and further more a right to privacy whilst conducting work in a customer's car. I would expect the answer to be no.

      Best advise though is to talk a lawyer before using that recording.

      • pegaxs on 07/11/2019 - 18:28
        +1

        In Victoria, it is against the law for use of a device to record, monitor or listen to the private conversation of another without their permission if you are not a part of the conversation.

        You know, there is that. And I would say that a conversation that a mechanic has with himself or anyone else in that car is a private conversation. There would absolutely be the expectation of privacy being inside a car when it comes to conversations. (and the "reasonable expectation of privacy" is about taking photos or videos, not about recording someone on a listening device.)

        Unless OP was directly involved in the conversation, they do not have the right to record it.

        It all comes under the "Surveillance Devices Act 1999 (Vic)." (It's a bit of heavy reading, so here is a much more reader friendly version.)

        And before OP uploads or disseminates any of that video, even before they bring it up with the manager of the person on the recording, they need to seek legal advice, because that person would then have the rights to get the police involved if they were recorded without their consent. OP even mentioning that it was recorded could blow up in OP's face…

        • Yawhae on 07/11/2019 - 23:38
          -3

          I somewhat disagree. It would not be unreasonable for a customer to have a dash cam in their personal car and as such a mechanic working in that car should know that dash cams exist and therefore they should not have an expectation of pricacy.

          Additionally because of those factors you can not reasonably expect to have a private conversation. (If you were wanting to have a private conversation a customer car is not the right place)

          As per the article you sent.
          "A private conversation is any conversation that is carried out in circumstances where it may reasonably be assumed that the parties to that conversation only want the words heard by the other people in that conversation. It does not include a conversation where the parties ought reasonably to expect that they may be overheard by someone else.

          Conversations conducted in public areas where it can be reasonably expected the conversation would be overheard are not considered to be private."

          Now that this technology has outpaced the current laws it would probably take a high court decision before they are clear, but yes the best advice would be lawyers advice.

          • pegaxs on 08/11/2019 - 00:13

            @Yawhae:

            It would not be unreasonable for a customer to have a dash cam in their personal car

            Correct. Lots of people do.

            as such a mechanic working in that car should know that dash cams exist

            "Should"… Dash cams are often hidden or tucked up out of sight and with the range of models out there, some record audio, some do not. What "isn't" up to the mechanic is to know what models have what features…

            therefore they should not have an expectation of pricacy.

            That is where you are wrong…

            It's not all about privacy, it's about consent. The law says that you cannot use a device to record or listen into a conversation that you are not a part of without the consent of that party. (unless of course, you have a warrant.)

            Conversations conducted in public areas…

            Inside a car is NOT a "public space". It's a near air tight bubble. And 100%, if I am in a car, with the windows up and the door closed and driving down the road, I would absolutely consider that a "private space". Your car is your property. I cannot just get into anyone's car (as they are not "public spaces"), nor would you willingly allow me to put a listening device in your car to record all your conversations. OP's situation is no different.

            I somewhat disagree

            You can "disagree" all you like, but you're still wrong.

            OP had an audio recording device that recorded a conversation that they were not a part of without getting the consent of the people involved in the conversation. So, unless OP says he was given consent by these people to record them, or was in the car with them at the time, the fact the dash cam was in the car does not automatically default to people giving their consent nor does it make it a "public space".

        • MementoMori on 08/11/2019 - 16:37
          +2

          I agree with pegaxs.

          A workshop is a private area, the public are not allowed in. Most workshops will have signs about this.

          In a private area like a workshop and place of work, a reasonable person would expect to have privacy there.

          I don't see it vastly different from putting a hidden mic in an office meeting room.

  • JimmyF on 06/11/2019 - 10:11
    +1

    All driving and comments said on video etc, not much you can do about that. Its not worth the 'hassle' and what do you want from it? Unless you get a speeding fine from them driving, this is the end of it.

    As for the work not being done correctly, that ship has sailed as well, as you went to another place to have it fixed. You should have taken it back to them to correct.

    Live and learn, don't go back to them again.

  • HighAndDry on 06/11/2019 - 10:20
    +1

    The alignment done so poorly that we had to bring it to another place and $$ again.

    Focus on only this. Mentioning any of the other stuff would just make you look petty and cheapen any complaint you make to HQ for a possible refund.

    • JimmyF on 06/11/2019 - 12:47

      Focus on only this

      Pushing up hill as you have someone else fix the issue without giving them a chance to correct the issue.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/11/2019 - 10:57
    +29

    Can you upload an image of the tissue box's so we can see if the vulgar comments are justified.

    • Bond on 06/11/2019 - 17:05
      +2

      The box is one of the brightly colored cheap homebrand ones. Did he expect Kleenex with Aloe Vera? Maybe that was the issue. LOL.

      • Ozpit on 07/11/2019 - 10:28
        +2

        Nah, I think the issue was that he was hoping for a roll of toilet paper.

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