Is It Safe to Drive an Automatic Transmission in Manual Mode?

LImtiazM60 on 06/02/2020 - 12:36

I have a 2012 Kia Sorento Platinum.

It recently had a gearbox replaced because the pump inside of it failed.

I was advised by my workshop mechanic (who is not a gearbox specialist) that is it harmful to drive with manual mode.

The car has a 6 spd automatic gearbox with drive and manual mode.

I've always driven with manual mode in previous cars that I owned with no issues.

It is only recently that someone told me that if I drive an automatic with Manual mode, it can blow the gearbox in a few months to a year.

He says that automatics are mainly to be driven with D-auto mode and that Manual mode is only meant for hill climbing to hold the speed and not for manual like driving.

Can anyone with a bit more understanding explain if this is true?

I was also advised by a gearbox workshop that I should change the oil every 20,000 to 30,000 km on this one because these gear boxes have weak oil pumps in them which easily fail.

Automotive

Comments

  • ShortyX on 06/02/2020 - 12:41
    +14

    I've always driven with manual mode in previous cars that I owned with no issues.

    All the time? Why?

    • Cheapo Moose on 06/02/2020 - 12:49
      +15

      Wondering the same thing.

      If you want to drive a manual, buy a manual.

      • HighAndDry on 06/02/2020 - 15:28
        +3

        Might be someone else also needs to drive the car and only drives auto, or availability - a lot of models don't come in manual anymore.

    • D C on 06/02/2020 - 15:29

      Why?

      Because all the above-average Ozbargain drivers have informed us that driving a manual makes you a better driver.

      Even the ones who can't figure roundabouts out!

  • Fergy1987 on 06/02/2020 - 12:50
    +3

    Weird

  • ESEMCE on 06/02/2020 - 12:56
    +14

    I'm going to take a punt
    The Manual mode doesn't rev match (I know it doesn't, I also own a Sorento) and therefore unless you're doing the rev matching (pretty much impossible in an auto), each gear change is going to shock the gearbox with excess torque on each change.
    This is going to occur even more if you're driving hard. (You're kidding yourself if you think a Sorento is anything more than a road barge).
    If you like to drive hard, trade the Sorento for an SV6 Commodore Wagon, same capacity (minus 2 rarely used seats), way more like a go-kart and available in a real manual to boot!

    I use manual mode for hill descent only. Not really sure why you'd need it for ascent, just squeeze the "go faster" pedal if you want more power going uphill!

    • DarkTurtle on 07/02/2020 - 08:50

      You can use manual mode for hill ascents to gain better traction. I’ve been in multiple situations where I’ve been unable to go up very steep and slippery hills in automatic mode (D gear), and my tyres just spin on the spot. Once I drop it to L or the lowest gear, I can go up the hill.

      • ESEMCE on 07/02/2020 - 16:41

        Makes sense.

  • BertieBrown on 06/02/2020 - 13:00

    I think (and I’m not an expert by any means) that a potential issue is that the automatic selection of the gearbox will know when is the best time to shift. Whereas with a manual the driver selects the best gear shift based on driving conditions and uses the clutch, and if the clutch gets worn and shits itself you replace the clutch (which isn’t cheap these days, but it’s not as expensive as a auto trans replacement or an overhaul). So logically in my mind if it’s always in manual (sports shift or whatever) mode versus just being in D the driver is overriding the sophistication of the automatic and in that sense might be causing more wear.

    I had a 2005 Kia Sportage 4-speed petrol V6 auto and it had a clunky box, such that it would often kind of clunk into second, and third but generally third to fourth was okay. There was also often a delay going from 1-2 in sports shift where it would take a fraction of a second and then sort of lunge into 2. Otherwise it was a little beast of a car, good to drive, handled okay, never leaked oil or coolant, you could flog her and she’d always oblige, but the gearbox was always something I was a little concerned about. I eventually sold it when she was around 160000 and at that time the gearbox was fine, but always exhibited that sort of clunkiness.

    How much did the new gearbox set you back?

  • spackbace on 06/02/2020 - 13:08
    +1

    Your passengers must think you're insane to drive like that constantly. I get the occasional forced downshift etc, but not continual (though there are cars built like this (hello Toyota MR2) but for others it's just a secondary feature).

  • Ryanek on 06/02/2020 - 13:32
    +2

    I suspect you're using manual mode to force higher revs and get a better response. If that's the case yes, you're doing more harm than you would other wise.

  • ImtiazM60 on 06/02/2020 - 14:21
    -1

    I am not driving the vehicle like a sports car.

    I just like the manual feeling to it as I have more control of the car and the gears.

    I drive it differently than auto which suits my driving style.

    Previous gearbox I flogged it for a long time before it blew.

    Luckily it was fixed under warranty so I paid nothing.

    But driving it like a normal car with manual mode. Why is that supposed to cause harm I don't properly understand?

    • floppy on 06/02/2020 - 14:33

      i'm assuming the reason you didn't buy a manual car is because you share the car with someone else yeah?

    • Fergy1987 on 06/02/2020 - 14:45
      +3

      You're being told by someone who has more knowledge about cars than you do (I assume) - I think you need to just take the advice and stop doing it.

    • HighAndDry on 06/02/2020 - 15:30
      +3

      I drive it differently than auto

      In auto mode the gearbox will choose optimal gear change timings.

      If you're driving it differently then your gear change timings must necessarily be sub-optimal.

      That means more stress and wear and tear.

    • ShortyX on 06/02/2020 - 15:36

      Member Since 2 hours 59 min

      Troll post?

      I drive it differently than auto which suits my driving style.

      Shifting at different points in manual mode (compared to auto mode) is probably accelerating the wear on the transmission.

      Previous gearbox I flogged it for a long time before it blew.

      Further evidence for a troll post.

    • spackbace on 06/02/2020 - 15:44
      +7

      Previous gearbox I flogged it for a long time before it blew.

      Luckily it was fixed under warranty so I paid nothing.

      If you're blowing gearboxes within the first 5yrs or so, don't you realise something must be wrong with your driving?

    • JIMB0 on 07/02/2020 - 09:21

      Previous gearbox I flogged it for a long time before it blew.

      I'd say the gearbox failing has less to do with being driven in manual mode and more to do with your driving style.

  • netjock on 06/02/2020 - 14:29

    There are cars designed with semi auto (paddles) for manual driving. But I don't think Kia Sorento is it. Just drive it in auto unless you want to force it to stay at a lower gear for hill climbs and descents like other people have said.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2020 - 14:37
    +5

    If you're not supposed to drive in manual mode (at times) then the maker of the car wouldn't put the feature in. The mechanic is talking rubbish. And as for rev matching and such, the valve body will not apply full pressure on downshifts so there is minimal shock until the gear is fully engaged. The gearbox is smarter than that mechanic.

    • HighAndDry on 06/02/2020 - 15:33

      Not really. Cars can rev up to 7-9k rpm. But even though it can, if you did that all the time you're going to blow the gearbox.

      Same here. Just because there's a manual mode doesn't mean OP is using it correctly. Especially if they've only learnt to drive in autos, they might not understand when to change gears at all and that considerations go into it (uphill, accelerating, engine braking, etc).

      • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2020 - 15:38

        the car will do its best to stop itself from breaking. There are lockouts to stop over-revving on downshift and will upshift or rev-limit when accelerating. Autos don't spin well above 7000rpm, so 9K is redundant. and pretty sure that 7000rpm is the redline on a v6 sorento, and 5000 on the diesel.

        • HighAndDry on 06/02/2020 - 15:40

          Oh no doubt - my car is definitely smarter than I am. But it's still possible to drive in ways which are better for the gearbox's longevity and ways which are worse.

          Having said that, I just read in the OP:

          someone told me that if I drive an automatic with Manual mode, it can blow the gearbox in a few months to a year.

          Which ok, I have my doubts about too.

          • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2020 - 15:43
            +1

            @HighAndDry: to which, if you have anything resembling mechanical sympathy you will feel bad long before you rev the engine/gearbox high enough to blow it up. i have a 6 speed auto cerato and use the manual downshift to save on brake wear. I am also a mechanic so dont jam it into 2nd gear at 80kph (not that Kia allow me to do that anyway).

            • wheretobuychocettes on 06/02/2020 - 16:18
              +4

              @[Deactivated]: I understand the mentality of down-gearing to save on the need to brake constantly in an auto downhill, but the intended purpose of the brake pads and brake rotors is entirely to slow/stop the car - why are you so insistent on avoiding it (apart from downhill)?

              I test drove a car once and the owner looked at me like I'd killed her dog when I put the handbrake up (holding in the button, no clicky sounds) when I parked. She asked why I did it, I said because I've parked the car and it's manual and leaving it out of gear would mean the car can roll. She didn't back down and said she never uses the handbrake and instead just leaves it in gear so that she didn't wear out the handbrake. What the hell is she saving the handbrake for, some special occasion??? I wish I'd asked.

              • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2020 - 09:25

                @wheretobuychocettes: maybe she was from a climate where it gets cold enough for handbrakes to freeze on. there is no adverse affect from downshifting to slow the car, or keep it at a constant speed. you can use the brakes as much as you want and change them every 20-30K km, while i will go 60K+.
                I did this in my lancer that i still own, and changed the brakes at 100K km with 50% pad remaining front and rear. i have changed $50 woth of auto oil in the lancer, so much cheaper than brake pads and discs. you drive how you want, i'll drive how i want and save my brakes until they are really needed.

                • wheretobuychocettes on 07/02/2020 - 10:38

                  @[Deactivated]: She did not live in a cold climate, even given the benefit of the doubt that she grew up in a cold climate, she didn't say anything about that. Just she was not wanting to wear it out.

                  I'm all for down-gearing in a manual, sometimes I'll do it in an auto; not saying it's wrong, just wanted to point out that brakes are for braking. And at the frequency of driving an auto constantly in manual mode or whatever the car has available, why not just buy a manual and get the full experience? Much more enjoyable.

                  For what it's worth my dad got 150,000kms in his 2003 Camry before Toyota told him it was time to change brake pads + rotors. He's the kind of man to only use P, N, R, and D, perhaps overdrive if driving on some excessively mountainous roads.

                  Each to their own indeed.

            • Dbargain4me on 06/02/2020 - 16:50
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: Funniest thing I read all day your mechanic and trying to save brake wear ? Bro front pads are 30 bucks probably costing you more with the excess fuel burn

              • brendanm on 06/02/2020 - 18:41
                +4

                @Dbargain4me: How would you possibly have excess fuel burn by using engine braking? When at 0% throttle and above idle rpm, 0 fuel is being injected.

                • pegaxs on 06/02/2020 - 19:02
                  +1

                  @brendanm: shhhhh. Don't bring logic in here. It's much funnier without it…

                • Dbargain4me on 07/02/2020 - 00:25

                  @brendanm: Well every car is different . Why do some cars back fire when you are engine braking if no fuel is being injected?
                  You missed the point engine braking is what kills motors .
                  The extra stress put on your rings the whole rotating assembly to save $30 pads every 3 years is not the right thing to do .

                  • brendanm on 07/02/2020 - 07:40
                    +2

                    @Dbargain4me: Engine braking doesn't kill motors. You think trucks would use engine braking if it killed motors?

                    Some cars will backfire at zero throttle if they have an incorrectly adjusted TPS, or an aftermarket ecu, with fuel cut on decel turned off. Every factory car runs fuel cut on decel, they need to.

                  • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2020 - 09:33

                    @Dbargain4me: some cars like fiat 124, merc (g)A(y)MGs and the like purposely inject fuel on overrun for the hand racer experience of driving a "performance" car.
                    Trucks use exhaust braking which puts immense pressure on engine components especially since they are diesel, but trucks go 1million kms with no problems.
                    The only thing that kills engines (motors are electric) is improper maintenance/inferior lubricants or general neglect in servicing frequency.

                    • pegaxs on 07/02/2020 - 17:07

                      @[Deactivated]:

                      some cars like fiat

                      mmmm… do tell me more… *heart_eyes_emoji.png*

                      (motors are electric)

                      Damn, thanks for that… I've been calling them motorcycles for years… They shall now be known as "enginecycles" and "enginebikes"

                      Nek minnit;

                      motor (From Google Dictionary)
                      /ˈməʊtə/
                      noun
                      1. a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for another device with moving parts.

                      • A motor is a mechanical or electrical device that creates motion. (From Wikipedia)
                      • A device that changes electricity or fuel into movement and makes a machine work (Cambridge Dictionary)
                      • Any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: such as; a small compact engine or internal combustion engine especially : a gasoline engine (Mirriam-Webster Dictionary)
                      • A comparatively small and powerful engine, especially an internal-combustion engine in an automobile, motorboat, or the like. (Dictionary.com)
                      • The motor in a machine, vehicle, or boat is the part that uses electricity or fuel to produce movement (Collin Dictionary)
                      • A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine (TheFreeDictionary.com)
                        Need some more???

                      Oh, but then again, there is all that…

                      Trucks use exhaust braking which puts immense pressure on engine components

                      Hahaha, no they don't. Here is a video on how Jacob engine brakes actually work. If anything, they reduce (release) pressure on the engine components… Essentially turning the engine into a huge air compressor, hence why Jake brakes sound so AWESOME!!! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

              • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2020 - 09:27

                @Dbargain4me: fuel burn on overrun is 0l/100km. only i a carby car is the idle circuit running at 3000rpm. if you get $30 brake pads, please stay away from me on the road. and paying $30 every 20,000km vs $60 in 60,000km, i'm still ahead.

    • brendanm on 06/02/2020 - 18:40

      This guy knows.

  • wheretobuychocettes on 06/02/2020 - 16:25

    An auto gearbox should for the most part last the entire life of the car. You getting yours replaced after ~8 years says a lot about how the car has been treated, so if you've specifically been told that what you're doing isn't best practise, perhaps you're best to adhere to that advice as next time there won't be a warranty to save you the costs.

    Having autos in my life but preferring manual (and having it in my personal car) means I know that even sporty autos don't give you the feel of a manual. Quit trying to play racecar driver and let the car do its thing and save yourself a few hundred/thousand dollars.

    Changing gear oil is something that is scheduled to be done every 50,000kms or so varying from car to car. Once the warranty servicing period expires, most owners switch to the fixed price services where they basically only change oil and filter and send you on your way. Sticking to the comprehensive scheduled service plan for the model you bought is going to be the best for preventative maintenance instead of developing issues and only fixing them once they've created an issue, for $$$ of course.

  • HardlyCharly on 06/02/2020 - 16:39

    It's fine. But honestly if that's what you want get a car with paddle shifting so that using it that way has at least been accounted for and designed into it.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2020 - 16:50

    I drive a dual cltuch exclusively in manual. I also drive a proper manual.

    No problems. Less fuel efficient but no problems.

  • pegaxs on 06/02/2020 - 17:29
    -1

    my workshop mechanic (who is not a gearbox specialist)

    And there is your answer.

    Why bother? The engine ECU talks to the gearbox ECU to help determine what the best revs for what gear and how much load is on the engine. But if you want to drive a Sorento as a pseudo sports car, you’re only using up more fuel and giving yourself another job and doing a worse job than what the onboard systems are already doing.

    PS: so much misinformation and bullshit in this thread already.

    • brendanm on 06/02/2020 - 18:42
      +1

      Don't you even rev match in your auto bro?

      • pegaxs on 06/02/2020 - 19:00

        Nah, I usually just double de-clutch my autos on downshift… Plipping throttles on downshift is "tight".

  • Snake 4 on 06/02/2020 - 17:45
    +2

    Surely someone here has heard of flappy paddles.

    • Euphemistic on 07/02/2020 - 21:16

      Isn’t a flappy paddle box and automated dual clutch manual? as opposed to manual mode in a torque converter auto that the OP is going on about.

  • Euphemistic on 07/02/2020 - 07:19
    +1

    Yes. It is safe. Should you do it all the time? Probably not. Will it kill the transmission? Probably not, but OP evidence having damaged 2 transmissions indicates likely to occur again - for that driver.

    Have been driving autos for year, regularly popping into manual mode to select the right gear for the occasion (accelerating or descending). Haven’t had a problem - yet. I don’t see the point in using manual mode all the time.

    Still prefer a manual transmission, except in traffic.

  • SlavOz on 07/02/2020 - 20:13

    If you like driving in manual mode so much, buy a manual car. You'll get even more control and engagement out of it. Plus, you'll possess a skill which seemingly only a small portion of Ozbargain possessos.

    Auto transmissions always fail before Manual ones, all things being equal, as there are far more moving parts and complex systems involved in an auto gearbox.

    Buy yourself an Asian manual car and as long as you're not doing excessive racing stunts everyday, the clutch should last you for most of the car's life. My 2002 Honda still has the original clutch after 3 owners and a lifetime of traffic driving.

  • Euphemistic on 07/02/2020 - 21:13

    Just reading a thread about towing on another forum and it occurs to me that when in manual mode the torque converter will not lock up as frequently. If this is true and the transmission fluids/valves/cooler etc are designed to run with the torque converter locked up for a fair proportion of time then the transmission may be overheated by using manual mode too much. Overheating is bad, leading to transmission failure.

    Disclaimer: not a transmission mechanic and may be talking out my …. happy to be corrected.

  • CrazyBargainCatcher on 11/02/2020 - 20:23

    For regular driving should be the same
    Ur mechanic is lying to u
    LMAO

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