I see lots of posts on marketplace and Gumtree people selling hand sanitiser for $20 and have asked few said they have 200 in stock and heaps of people started buying hundards of masks and selling them 8x of the original price.
Really sad to see this and I think there should be a consequence for these what you think?
I think it should be illegal so as pumping and dumping stocks etc.
do not pass go and do not collect $200
They probably collected $200k
I don't think it's illegal but morally incorrect.
And potentially may induce physical bodily harm if things get too bad.
call accc
Why do they have an apocalypse thug department to sort things?
What laws are they breaking?
If you are proposing a law, what would be your definition of price jacking and how would it be qualified?
Price jacking during a major Health event. We have many laws when it comes to peoples health or the greater good.
Which one?
A lot of the driving laws are based on greater good and peoples health for instance. We have too many selfish people these days, what happened to the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. In times of special circumstances governments have stepped in like for terrorism etc, it wouldnt surprise me if they did step in if there was a pandemic. Isnt the whole grocery stores limiting purchase of baby milk powder based around the greater good and helping all families have access to baby formula instead of a selfish few who want to make a quick buck out of other peoples miseries.
@lonewolf: None of what you say is true.
Traffic laws are based around efficient flow and enforceable rules. There is no socialist agenda in traffic law.
"what happened to the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". That died with Stalin and thank goodness it did. Please do not resurrect that horrendous philosophy. The needs of others shouldn't warrant my death just because it is convenient.
There is no selfish law to make a quick buck. Supermarkets limiting purchase is to prevent scalping, a practice that not only affects the end user but has an effect on the supermarket due to inability to maintain stock.
The greater good is what Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler used to justify slaughtering people en masse. You're trying use that same philosophy to get cheap masks/sanitiser that you don't need.
@[Deactivated]: Umm not sure what you are talking about but speed cameras, red light cameras, speeding laws, mobile phone laws as well as school speed limits are all based on the idea of saving people's lives. For peoples health and the many are affected by it to save a few lives.
Actually the needs of the many is how any species survives.
This is essentially a type of scalping.
Actually the needs of the many is how any species survives.
Lol. Nah.
(Should change that username to lone reliantonotherswolf.)
@[Deactivated]: You don't seem to understand the needs of the many if you think that it means reliant on others.
@deliriousdave: Hahaha. Yup trying to say in times of special conditions or extreme situations, the health of everyone is more important than a selfish few making profits. Hence why woolies has come out with restrictions on purchase amounts. But people trying to derail that by comparing it to Stalin / Hitler is just hilarious.
@deliriousdave: People don't seem to get what I am quoting which is Spock in star trek when he sacrifices himself to save everyone else. That is the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Hitler and Stalin did not embody that by how they treated their own people much less other people. But I find it funny how in this day an age people try to use extreme points of view and link it to someone to counter their argument and typecast or pigeon hole them into one ideology rather than trying to discuss the actual issue.
The whole needs of the many is all around us in alot of the laws. Like the laws I mentioned, designed to protect people's health by speed limits, mobile phone usage, red lights, school zones.
@[Deactivated]: No the principles but again you dont seem to understand what i am talking about, not sure what history has anything to do about it. Because neither Stalin or hitler thought of the needs of the many, if anything history shows us that they did the opposite and benefited the needs of the few over the needs of the many with their actions. A hell of a lot of people suffered due to their actions and forms of dictatorship, but lets just pick and choose to say we dont agree.
I notice no-one has still discussed all the other laws like alot of the driving laws which were put into place for peoples health. Fact of the matter is Australia has never been a country about every man for himself. That was never the idealogy behind australia or its people and not how the people are or at least used to be. I know with a lot of immigration we have started to bring in certain other types of cultures or idealogies that are based around every man for himself. But the reason why most people came to Australia at least previously was because it was a great country and its people worked together and helped each other out in times of need.
In a way that is how the human species survived, we evolved from a village / community based living style. we couldnt survive just one person against the wilderness and still manage to provide food and shelter, we worked well in numbers and collective thinking.
No the principles but again you dont seem to understand what i am talking about, not sure what history has anything to do about it.
Yes I do. You're thinking that if you have great intentions, the end result is great.
I live in the real world. History is a good predictor of outcomes.
Some people commit great evils, intentionally or accidentally, in the name of a cause they believe to be good.
You are suggesting the same thing. You do not like how history played out and you want me to acknowledge Spock and forget Stalin.
This is why we read books and learn history.
@[Deactivated]: Again your idea of disagreeing is to try to attack the other person. By suggesting only you live in the real world and read books.. I work for a university. In my faculty is the histories and politics. I read plenty of books as well as talk to the lecturers on a varied amount of topics.
Fact of the matter is it isn't thinking good intentions. It is thinking survival of the species is based on masses and not on individuals. It's always been that way and always will. We are not a species that was designed to survive solo. There are some animals like that and others thay aren't.
Bringing in Stalin who was a one in a millennia corrupt madman to say I am wrong just goes to show what happens these days when someone disagrees. They are insane or some extremists and that's the argument to derail their view.
Also you have left alot alot of the things I mentioned. Governments always have and always will put up laws to protect the health of people at the expense of other people making profits.
BTW now not only woolies but coles has also brought in purchase restrictions. So they obviously think people shouldnt be able to hoard and / or sell what they are bulk buying at times of need.
By suggesting only you live in the real world and read books..
Never did I say/suggest the concept of "only". I used the word "we" which can be read as inclusive. You chose exclusive.
I work for a university. In my faculty is the histories and politics.
Good for you.
Now if only I decided to pursue a job in a university and/or be in the history/politics department, I too can change history.
If you feel "attacked", report the comment rather than make an inference and complaining here.
For the greater good.
no don't you understand, trying to discourage price gouging = Hitler/Stalin (lmao)
Enacting laws that give government unopposed power, be it market, military or enforcement, is a leverage that can be used to secure more power.
Checks and balances exist. A simple law, as altruistic as it may seem, has the potential to tip the scales of power irreversibly and absolutely.
No one actually votes for death and tyranny yet it has happened throughout human history, is still happening and will continue to happen.
@lonewolf: Scalping is kinda a grey area.
In a sense basically all middle-men/retailers are involved in this practice, they just set their prices based on consumer expectation, to maintain a long running business and inline with their competition.
On the other end of the scale, or in the reverse version of this kind of practice. Big chain grocery stores like Woollies and Coles used a loss leader strategy for years to price out a majority of small supermarkets, basically selling everything at a loss, until the smaller retailers in the area went out of business.
These are quite difficult practices to regulate, as supply and demand are the theoretical market drivers of price and generally we don't let the government regulate retail prices as its incredibly difficult to prove what is the correct market price for a good at a given time.
@Odd: I agree with you for me though "Generally" is the key word though as every time its an abnormal or extreme event or issue at hand then the governement usually does get involved to try to maintain the society and stop riots or the events being more hazardous than it has to be. This is a moot point now as woolies and coles have already stepped in and restricted purchase amounts to stop people bulk buying and scalping it off at exorbitant prices.
And good they did as some people have gotten violent and crazy over it, which was part of my point from the beginning. It was bound to happen with no regulation. Have people seen the videos of people going crazy over toilet paper, makes no sense that they can get that violent and the epidemic hasnt hit us yet. Imagine how some of these people will act if / when it does.
The needs of others shouldn't warrant my death just because it is convenient.
Damn…… :(
@[Deactivated]: There is no common ground for civil discussion as the discussion has devolved to remove definitions. In fact, no one even wanted to define what the price control law should look like and now we have greater good being thrown around like we built traffic laws around it.
This discussion has essentially turned to, "I don't like high prices. Let's make it unlawful and problem solved."
If only Parliament and the lawmakers knew it was this easy, they would have legislated out all crime and we would have utopia.
It has really turned silly.
doing business without ABN + tax law
Lodge a report to the ATO.
https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2020/02/06/nine-prem… Other countries seem to be able to stop businesses from acting unethically during a health crisis. Obviously private citizens don't fall under this category, but i'm sure if they can enact legislation to penalise scalping tickets, they can protect health and safety products from crisis entrepreneurs.
Malaysia cannot even keep elected government in office and is one of the most corrupted countries in the world.
Welcome to our capitalist society.
selling hand sanitiser for $20
Pro tip: Don't buy it?
I think there should be a consequence
Are you actually serious?
You realise all your local supermarket does is buy a product from a manufacturer/farmer and sell it for massively inflated prices. You're paying for convenience and the supply chain. People doing this on smaller scale is the same thing.
Haha next thread:
Yes, yes they should. But that's a different thread…
Excellent idea, thanks OP!
I hate basic economics! People should go to jail for selling at a price I disagree with!!
People should go to jail for selling at a price I disagree with!!
This sums up most of the posts I'm seeing (in popular) on OzBargain lately:
I disagree with:
- Paying the fine for a crime I committed
- Paying (myself) to fix something I broke
- Paying more for in demand items
- Paying bonds for in demand placements
Literally came here to post this.
OP, if the price doesn’t match it’s value - don’t buy it?
Does this also mean Ubers should be jailed for increasing their prices in peak periods?
Or that the government should be jailed for charging more for public transport in peak hour?
Its a simple case of supply and demand.
You would have to be a complete moron to buy $20 hand sanitizer when you could just get isopropyl alcohol and water. A fool and their money are soon parted.
even better is iso and aloe vera gel. It gives a nice consistency like the bought stuff. I made a batch today and it turned out great. Made it to about 60% alcohol for that scorched earth germ killing power.
It NEEDS to be mixed with aloe Vera or similar, otherwise it evaporates too quickly and can't kill the germs.
Supply and demand mate.
I think Karma (or god) will catch up to them..
No, I won't.
I didnt mention lucifer?
I can be whatever you want me to be…
For a price roll.
Unfortunately neither one exists.
Scummy, yes. Illegal, no.
Hopefully Australia doesn't get to that stage, and these hoarders will end up with $$$ of stuff they'll have to sell at a loss.
Selling TP at a loss?
Mate. Gold bars would sooner drop.
Tp is a health aid?
Is this a troll account? lol
You honestly think once the media hype is over people will prefer to buy TP off gumtree instead of spending $10 at Woolworths?
This. I love the fact that people have hoarded this stuff thinking they'll sell at 50,000% markup, only to find they're just some weird person with a lot of TP, sanitiser and canned food that is taking up space.
People really are idiots…
You are all a bunch of softies, using toilet paper.
In my day we used a bus ticket.
Consider yourself lucky - In my day my ticket was a monthly pass.
In my day we used the edge of a cracked cup
A cracked cup?! Luxury!
Aye, we used to dream of wiping with the edge of a cracked cup….
True ozbargainers go to the toilet on work time and get paid to use work toilet paper.
Now we have a myki card to scrape it with
There should be a fine for people who are stupid enough to pay $60 for a roll of toilet paper on Gumtree.
I tried selling some good quality 3M face masks on Gumtree a month ago for a price which was above RRP but wasn’t totally ridiculous. I had a few enquires but nobody came through and actually purchased any.
On the private market, no/
On the public market, yes.
Did OP get conned and is now looking for retribution?
Really sad to see this and I think there should be a consequence for these what you think?
The consequence of buying low and selling high already exists - it's called "profit".
I think it should be illegal so as pumping and dumping stocks etc.
That's illegal because it's a form of market manipulation. Unless you think people are spreading coronavirus deliberately, this isn't applicable here.
What.
*you're
*of
*it's
*a bit
*inhumane
Oh and you dropped these: , , , , .
You know what's really inhumane, forcing anyone to read that. Go home and think about what you've done.
AHAHAHAHHAHAH this made me laugh too much
you know there are other ways making profit
Income less Expenditure = Profit
What other ways are there of making profit? (Asking for a friend who is a Ferengi)
That's only accounting profit.
Economic profit also considers opportunity cost. i.e. Could you make more money if you did something else than waste time looking for suckers on Gumtree?
Hypothetically speaking, if someone with enough money were to buy out the entire stock from a supermarket in order to resell at a higher price, would that constitute market manipulation?
Mask(ed) bandits?
just have a limit of buying large quantities of any products, that will stop these idiots buying crazy amount of items for panic.
Thanks Woolies https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/maj…
that doesn't stop the baby formula, does it?
Better than empty shelf?
it won't stop empty shelf.
people still can buy, load into the car and come back to buy more.
Ironically I've seen more tins of baby formula left on shelves since the outbreak started.
@HighAndDry: Yup, demand has reportedly dropped
Milk powder demand drops and face masks become the item most sought by the clients of daigou personal shoppers
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/11954256
@sss333: Someone educated me on amp links previously. They're bad because they steal advertising from content creators.
Please look it up and avoid posting Google's amp links. The straight up abc link would be better;
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-02-12/coronavirus-see…
@sss333: That wasn't actually the part I wanted you to focus on.
ABC doesn't have advertising, yet Google is still trying to steal it!
@S2: I don't think that is correct. AMP supports ads - both traditional HTML ads and AMPHTML ads. You just need an IT team that is competent.
https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/learn/int…
@randombrick: I haven't invested enough to know what I'm talking about on AMP. Although I would expect a page on the amp developer website to not mention any genuine downsides to AMP. When I search for "AMP links" in google, many top results relate to it being bad.
@S2: .amp. links help with content distribution by allowing more servers (whether Google's or someone else's) to cache the page more locally to the end user, meaning lower latency, faster access times, and less overall network congestion.
It does have potential flow on effects to advertising (because the cached page doesn't serve/access the same ad servers as the original server) but for the end user this actually helps security because ad servers are notoriously vulnerable to being used as vectors to inject malicious code.
@sss333: I assume there are probably daigou warehouses filled with milk powder and other products which now can't be sold.
Risk of doing business.
It annoys the crap out of me how short-sighted and simple-minded people, like OP, constantly think that fines and prison will solve all of the world's problems!
And yet, here we are with a shortage of facemask and hand sanitiser.
Sure, it's not illegal but between the people that cause these shortages and OP wanting something done to prevent shortages, the former are the ones that annoys me more.
Maybe people need to do a basic economics course about supply and demand in a market economy. Move to a communist country if you want to live with a lot more rules about quantities for sale and prices that can be charged.
We don't really have a shortage. There's no one who needs these goods being unable to obtain them.
Excuse me but I need toilet paper and can't obtain.
P.s if anyone is around Parramatta Westfields, please come in to the bathrooms on level 5 and drop off some toilet roll (3rd cubicle from right).
Much appreciated fam
…between the people that cause these shortages..
What "people" causing the shortages? It's not just one person so you can't just blame individuals. If everyone's doing it, then there's obviously a wider problem.. like a distrust of the gov't etc?
The people who are sitting around laughing at others and saying how ridiculous people are because they're getting additional supplies are going to be the same ones that complain when things start getting worse than they are now.
Yeah, I'm not usually one to stress about these things, but walking through aisles and aisles empty of all paper and pasta is giving me an itch to track down and buy some myself.
Rationally I know this is just basic psychological response to perceived scarcity (basically FOMO) but it's a damned strong response we're all evolved/socialised to have.
@HighAndDry: I actually think the reaction comes from the thought in the back of everyone's mind that there's a small possibility that this coronavirus thing can get much worse than it is now and the fact that there's no harm in stocking up because the essential items like toilet paper can still be used later if nothing major eventuates.
So logically, at an individual level, why not stock up? It definitely doesn't help other people who need stock of the items for immediate use, but society nowadays, it's every man to themselves - although the lady at Parra Woolies probably went too far by pulling a knife! haha
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8072347/Horror-Wool…
Then again, there'll be free toilet paper in jail!
although the lady at Parra Woolies probably went too far by pulling a knife! haha
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8072347/Horror-Wool…
Hahaha ok that's a bit much. I think I'll make do with what I have now then. Definitely more scared of crazy ladies with knives than the virus.
Yes they must go to gaol.