Should Schools and Universities Be Closed for 14 Days?

What are your thoughts on this?

" Scott Morrison says Australian schools should remain open for the time being, despite growing calls for them to shut to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
Speaking after a special national cabinet meeting today to decide what course of action the nation should take to slow the spread of the disease, Mr Morrison said shutting schools down would do more harm than good.
"People are naturally anxious about the issues of schools," he said.
"As the British chief medical officer observed over the last couple of days, the issue of wide scale closure of schools, and it may seem counter-intuitive, but the advice is this could be a very negative thing in terms of impacting on how these (epidemic) curves operate, for two reasons.
"When you take children out of school and put them back in the broader community, the ability for them to potentially engage with others increases that risk. That's the understanding we had.
"Also issues of herd immunity which relate to children. The other is the disruption impact that could have and put at great risk the availability of critical workers such as nurses, doctors and others who are essential in the community because they would have to remain home and look after their children.
"So while it may seem counterintuitive, there (are) very good reasons why you would not be moving to broadscale closures of schools. That could make the situation worse, not better.
"The states and territories are not moving in that direction."
The PM said the matter would be reassessed on Friday."

Poll Options

  • 588
    YES.. Let's stop the spread of COVID19
  • 243
    NO.. I agree with Scomo
  • 16
    I don't care

Comments

  • its really that simple, if you now work from home, you can choose to let your kids stay at home, those who don't have this luxury still have a proper place for their children during the working hours, I really don't understand some people went nuts over this, it really comes down to your personal preferences.

  • yes, but I don't know if 14 days is enough.

    Let's say someone who is infected spreads it to you on day 12. In 2 days time you will be free to return to school while infected. What did that achieve exactly?

    A lockdown needs to be 28 days just to be safe.

    • Hubei at 54 days and counting.

  • +1

    Given the spread of the virus will only increase, there's next to no chance that a 14-day ban won't be extended, potentially for months. And making young children stay at home will force parents out of work, which will be economically crippling.

    • Not to mention that keeping people at home for months will make them complacent and spread out into the community anyway. It has to be timed right.

      • to do it properly, it needs to be enforced with police/military patrolling the streets. We don't have the resources to do that.

  • +1

    Breaking news a child died of coronavirus. They do not have the same amount of antibodies hence do not show symptoms as much as adults. They can super spreaders

    Our chief medical Officer has no clue

    • They do not have the same amount of antibodies hence do not show symptoms as much as adults.

      Please quote your medical expertise or link to medical journal article to back up that 'sentence'
      :/

    • No one has any clue, yet act like they do, it's a shambles of epic scale IMO.

      I'm sure they'll take the necessary action once it's too late.

    • They do not have the same amount of antibodies hence do not show symptoms as much as adults.

      This statement seems to not make any sense. Evidence?

      Our chief medical Officer has no clue

      What makes you think you know better?

      • What makes you think you know better?

        Dunning-Kruger effect

    • They cherry pick the yes men they put into positions of power, who in turn worry about covering our own backside. Actual interest in public safety should come first. Actual scientific consensus - not what is politically convenient needs to rule the day.

  • Wow after reading pg 1 and 2 I didnt expect the topic should school be close? gone off topic of Corona Virus.

    Anyway I am off this topic going to get my kids off school just for two week earlier starting tomorrow.

    Everybody wants the best outcome for their love ones, kids, country and etc. No need to get too emotional over who is right or wrong.

    Time will tell if we do have done the right move.
    Peace out!

  • +5

    What the PM didn’t bother showing in his cherry picked Singapore example was that countries back tracing efficiency. China and South Korea have stopped the growth the most with school closures . PM worried more about the economy than health and based on our growth the schools will close . Should be now . I back track on believing the PM BS ! Google countries growth rates of the virus to see my point .

    The schools will close shortly if he has any responsibility and pays attention to the data .

    • Yet if the economy were to collapse, people would blame the government and whine about not having a job. Can't win.

      And comparing us to China is silly. Theyve had to do all sorts of unthinkable things to stop the spread, like barracking people inside their homes or build massive hospitals in a matter of days (leading to a collapse which killed 10 people). They're a dodgy country with an oppressive government. Australia doesn't have that option and for good reason. China also knew about the virus 3 weeks before anyone else. That headstart helped them contain it before it got to the peak.

  • +6

    If you really want to see what an economy grinding to a halt looks like closing schools and childcare should achieve it.

  • +2

    School ban is coming as UK banned school last night. We follow them..ScoMo will announce this…

    • +1

      He and the NSW Premier have nicely backed themselves into a corner. If they announce too soon that school is closing after all, they'll have to admit they made a mistake. I think they'll wait till people are dying and parents are keeping their kids home anyway then say "now is the right time".

      • Did you see what happened with the Grand Prix? People were already waiting to get in when it was canceled last minute.

        • I was hoping that people are FINALLY starting to get a little serious. But news yesterday and this morning says our politicians won't be serious until they have blood on their hands.

          Blacktown City Medieval Fayre just officially cancelled. That was a free event. The vendors are probably most affected, followed by volunteers and those paying to exhibit.

          A few days ago the Wings Over Illawarra Airshow was postponed and then a couple of days later rescheduled for November. (I think they're avoiding ticket refunds on early bird sales). After at first re-assuring people that they'd go ahead.

          Both events were in May. People often book hotels so very like the Grand Prix. If you want people to come back when it's over you have to have a brain in your head. I use to think that was a pre-requisite for leadership. But I grew up.

          Missing out on an event is one thing. Even last minute. Having someone you love die because people can't organize the proverbial pissup in the brewery is quite another.

          • +1

            @syousef: And latest one -
            " Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly has said the chief health officers from each state and territory will recommend restrictions be placed on all internal venues, including those with a capacity of under 100 people.

            The recommendations would see a one person per four square metre limit across cafes, bars, sports clubs and all other non-essential venues."

            Instead of banning public gathering including schools, they come up this such ideas which is impractical to follow at public venues including school…..

    • Yeah, it's interesting to see which countries take up different strategies first, and which countries adopt, relative to the stage of local viral proliferation and economic implications.

      Just to clarify:

      "The closures will affect students of all ages, except for the children of key workers — including NHS staff, police and delivery drivers – and vulnerable children."

  • I heard that if the schools do close, it would close for 6 months atleast. So if it closes now, I'll only get back to school in time for graduation in September.

    • Online learning is a thing. Australia pioneered real time distance education with school of the air. And today kids in primary schools are being forced to bring laptops in like little business people (Literally from age 7 as of this year at my kids' school.).

      We can do better than this.

      • +1

        The problem is that most people cannot take 6 months of work and to stay home with their children

        • Work will be closed too.

        • Keep schools open for kids of essential workers and everyone else can stay home. It minimises impact and risk of spread, makes parents from both sides happy and teachers will feel safer. Half the world has closed schools but for some reason we can't figure it out

          • +1

            @Ononono: and close every business thats not essential workers also?

            • +1

              @SBOB: Yep it's better to rip off the band-aid than drag it out for months on end and also risking more deaths. But it's too late anyway, they should have closed borders a month ago. Check out the news coming out of Europe and UK, anyone that believes we will avoid the same fate is delusional

              • +2

                @Ononono: more like amputate both legs before they get infected

    • +1

      It might not need to be 6 months but regardless, you can do it now, and save lives or you can do it later when the horse has bolted.

    • You heard that because Scomo said it. And he said it because he tried to get people on his side re: his stance on not closing schools. Much like the decision to not close schools it is not based on any science or logic.

  • +13

    Idiocracy 101: Refuse to test those who haven't been overseas, then claim it's not spreading locally. Finally, base all your "medical advice" including whether or not to close schools on that faulty premise.

    If someone wrote this as fiction they'd be criticized for writing something so implausible.

    • +4

      The lack of logical thinking throughout the population in general really upsets me. And not enough people with the ability to think logically speak out.

    • +1

      Easy to say test everyone but we don't have enough testing kits for that. We're already rationing them in some hospitals.

      • To me that is the critical thing that we need to future plan for. We need a fast, effective test method to determine who is infectious and who isn’t. A lot of this mess could’ve been knocked on the head if mass testing was available early on in China. Maybe we could spend less time/money on “vanity” medicine and more on essential services. before this all happened Trump was trying to cut funds to manage Pandemics.

        • +2

          In 2018, he dismantled the National Security Council directorate at the White House which was charged with preparing for when (not if!) another pandemic would hit. He's an idiot.

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: The intelligent part of the world has known that for some time. The problem is there are too many idiots in America who don’t engage their brain before voting or decline to vote at all. Well, they ordered it, now they can eat it. Trump has spent the last few years overheating the American economy, using the processes normally used when economies have issues, so now there are no levers left to deal with a catastrophic failure. The election will be interesting, but I’m not betting on the intelligence of the average American voter.

            • +2

              @try2bhelpful: …and yet even America and the UK have shut schools. NZ and AUS are holding out for what? Lots of dead people?

              • -1

                @syousef: No, so that we can keep the young people away from the old people for as long as possible and to ensure that workers are freed up to do their jobs. Why should kids in schools mean more dead people? What will mean more dead people is kids in shopping malls mingling with old people.

              • @syousef: It's becoming clear that you have a vested interest in schools being closed and it's not for public health reasons. So what is it? Do you or your SO work in a school? If you're so scared, why not just go on leave?

                • -1

                  @[Deactivated]: I’ve given up trying to stave off the scare mongering. I’m going to unsubscribe from all the COVID-19 threads and let the chickens run around without their heads. It is bad but the vast majority of us will live. Will chat with you in other threads.

              • @syousef: NZ has had no community spread at all, so no need to close any schools there. They have dodged the bullet so far.

                Australia on the hand is going to be an unmitigated disaster if we don't lock this place down asap.

                Look at Italy, that is us in a couple of weeks.

        • How do you propose to develop a test for a virus before it has even emerged? Are you even aware of how tests are developed? You do understand you're looking for genetic markers from that virus - how do you know in advance the genetic code of that virus when it hasn't emerged? Where do you get the blood of an infected person exactly when no infection has occurred yet?

      • You can set aside some test kids to work out if it's spreading within the community, instead of assuming it isn't so you can push a political and economic agenda.

        • From where do you want them to get those kits when they don't even have them to use in hospitals?

          Metro North, which runs five hospitals including the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital, has adopted even stricter testing criteria than that spelled out by Australia's chief medical officer.

          "Unfortunately, the extreme pressure on our personal protective equipment stocks continues, and the situation regarding pathology test kits, reagents and swabs [which] is deteriorating rapidly, with kits no longer being available in some regions of the country," Dr Brendan Murphy wrote in a letter to GPs last Friday.

          • @[Deactivated]: They're testing everyone coming off a cruise ship just in case. Pretending you couldn't divert some of those tests to obvious suspected cases in the local community is ridiculous.

            • -1

              @syousef: Are you seriously proposing that rather than test people who are coming from overseas, to divert those test to kids who haven't left the country?

              obvious suspected cases in the local community is ridiculous.

              Who are these "obvious suspected cases"? Have you reported them to the authorities?

              • @[Deactivated]: I know you take pride it it but this is no time for sophistry. I personally know people who have gone in for testing to be cleared for work who were turned away because they haven't been overseas and have not had contact with anyone who has. This includes one person who very uncharacteristically didn't want to take a phone call because he wasn't feeling well, who I had to converse with via text message. Reporting them to the authorities is not an option. This isn't the Sound of Music for pity sake.

        • -3

          apparently you are happy to have the “test kids” out of school to go shopping with their parents and spreading the disease to a bunch of old people. You are pushing an agenda that has been determined as less than optimism by experts as well.

      • That is exactly the thing that needs to be done in high priority using any possible means as necessary: making/provisioning a lot of test kits.
        Don't say that we can't produce it ourselves.. Someone in Africa can make them for $1 each.

        The reason why we don't have enough is because the ruling class thinks that there is no urgency in doing that.

  • +9

    The solution is simple; close the schools, with the kids still in them…

  • +3

    Community transmission is now evident. Just a matter of time for wide spread isolation

    • +2

      We had community spread weeks ago. You can't confirm it if you don't test for it, aside from a few celebrities/politicians. Waiting to announce isolation/closure of schools is a calculated move which puts money over peoples lives.

      • +1

        That's the libs policy though. They play the same game with climate change

  • +2

    I'm still surprised that they haven't made the call yet. Give the healthcare workers free/subsidised aupairs so they can go to work and leave the kids at home.

  • +1

    Close the schools and #stayhome

  • +5

    Worried teacher here. I think our prime minister is slow to react. He keeps harping on about the economy and I get that but even with increased cleaning and hygiene measures at school we are high risk for contracting this virus. Some teachers are starting to feel like babysitters because that's how the PM is portraying us. It's impossible to keep 1.5m apart for a start. I am concerned about casual workers in this climate. I don't know what the right answer is.

    • +1

      Well not baby sitters but rather society builders.

      The point is children will not sit at home 24/7, they will still meet outside on playgrounds etc. So what do we gain?

      • +2

        Outside at a playground is very different to a small inclosed room of 30 kids

      • +4

        It's unreasonable to put pressure on teachers to keep kids 1.5m apart, make them wash their hands 10 times a day and teach them. The responsibility for keeping a child healthy is on the parent, it's not right to lump this on teachers (who are too exposed to the risk of contracting the virus off an asymptomatic child).

        • +3

          Exactly, this is adfing to our stress. I worry if I haven't wiped my students tables properly or watched every child wash their hands. I have students that hold my hand and hug me everyday. At the moment I'm losing sleep over other people's children including my own.

          • -2

            @AussieDolphin: Then stop losing sleep and look at the WHO tables. The number of kids being infected is tiny compared to the old people being infected. Maybe you should be worried about that end.

            • -1

              @try2bhelpful: Nah, losing some older people and pensioners would be the best for the economy at the moment reduces payments as they aren't really doing much for the economy and we all know the world is over populated at the moment so perfect timing.

            • @try2bhelpful: “ The number of kids being infected is tiny compared to the old people being infected.”

              Are you just basing that on the number of deaths? Or do you not realise kids carry and spread this virus without showing any symptoms?

              • -2

                @Kewok: Sorry, should’ve ,probably, said deaths. However, I might be correct on the other point as well, given the theory is children’s immune systems are better. See my point below about keeping kids in schools away from old people.

            • @try2bhelpful: Looks like we have a few people that aren’t looking at reality here. If kids stay home from school somebody has to look after them and that person might be the one who usually puts food on our table, or makes sure we have utilities, or stocks our supermarkets, etc. we still need essential services we can’t all “lock down”. If little johnnie is in school you are keeping him away from a bunch of old people, that he might infect, because “parent” has to take him shopping with them because there is no one to mind him.

              • @try2bhelpful:

                If kids stay home from school somebody has to look after them

                This happens 12 weeks of the year though with the next block of holidays starting in 3 weeks.

                Besides this, school is only 9am to 3pm. Who ever is picking them up can't be in a full day job. Many have family members picking them up if the parent is in a full time role.

                If little johnnie is in school you are keeping him away from a bunch of old people

                Schools are full of elderly people including support workers and TAs.

                In schools we are finding a great drop in before and after school care. Parents are already working from home if at all with many already deciding to pull their kids out.

                • @OldBugger: Not all people are working from home, in fact most of our essential services can’t be done “from home”. For a lot of families the person who looks after Jonnie, during holidays, is the elderly parents. Well, that’s going to work well this time, isn't it. At this time we don’t need a full curriculum and elderly TAs. Get the old people out of the schools and call for young volunteers. Teach the kids the value of good hygiene and personal space.

  • Everyone is crying for a shutdown of schools and everything else to stop the virus spreading. No one seems to realise or even care that closing schools and businesses means people will be laid off in the hundreds of thousands. companies aren't going to keep people on the payroll when there's no customers, supplies, materials.

    Okay, so people's lives are more important you ask? What about when we have massive unemployment. Families who can't put food on the table or pay their home loans. We'll start seeing suicide rates going up. And desperate people turning to theft to provide for themselves, break ins, murders. That will be our reality in the long run if we have unemployment of 20% or higher.

    Everyone is so critical of saving the economy over lives, people can't see the long term effects of a broken economy. There has to be a balance to save lives now and also save our long term viability as a running country.

    • +6

      I don't know but as I see it, if we allow this to spread it will continue to wreak havoc on the economy by consistently locking down businesses when it hits its staff members. Not to mention the long term strain on the health system.

      Let's not forget that virus cases are typically growing exponentially.

      From what I see around me, many people already are being told to stay home from work either on leave or working from home. I see it a perfect opportunity to combine this with school closure.

      Hopefully a short term lockdown of non-essential people and services, eradicating the virus in this country, will work better than a prolonged, long drawn out battle.

      • Yes, I agree. We can't be complacent and ignore the virus. There needs to be a balance.

        Not everyone can work from home. Retail, services, hotels, travel, food, delivery, trades. Basically everything that isn't an office can't work from home. And most businesses don't have the capacity to work from home given the requirements needed. Which means losses and lay offs.

        I don't love scomo in the slightest. But I feel like he's taken the best steps by:
        1. listening to the chief medical officer on every advice
        2. Taking measures to keep massive lay offs to a minimum

      • the lockdown is designed to flatten the curve. What this means is it actually prolongs the infection period but reduces the amount of people requiring hospital services, at any given time.

        https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-what-does-flatte…

        Unless you intend to lock everyone into an individual cell for 2 weeks people will still infect those around them. When we come out of quarantine the dance starts again. The only real way to beat this is to be able to mass test in a timely manner. Those infected go into quarantine and those uninflected keep the world turning. Let’s hope that is the lesson we learn this time and prepare for the next one.

        • +1

          Even if that's the case, doesn't it make sense to quarantine and buy time until we have the ability to test more people? Right now we cleaely don't, in a few weeks time we hopefully will.

          • @axel32: All I was pointing out is this will, actually, prolong the battle. I do agree this is the most sensible approach to ensure scarce resources aren’t over run.

        • When we come out of quarantine the dance starts again.

          Exactly, it's flattened the curve.

          • @iDroid: 'flattening the curve' is not the goal here.

            There is no amount of 'flattening' which will fit probably a million critical patients into a few thousand ICU beds.

            Even if it was possible to flatten it that much it would take decades.

            • @trapper: The flatter the better.

              It's like you're saying that because we can't get it as flat as optimal then let's not bother?

              • +1

                @iDroid: 'not bother' ??

                The goal here is to stop the infection completely. Can be done with lock-down - see Hubei.

                • +1

                  @trapper: Sorry, I miss read your tone and intention.

        • +1

          Unless you intend to lock everyone into an individual cell for 2 weeks people will still infect those around them.

          You just monitor for any new infections and don't end lock-down until we are all clear. Check Hubei to see hows it's done.

      • The solution is to try online teaching and learning. The infrastructure may not be there yet, but in times of crisis, we always surprise ourselves with new innovations that could potentially lead to further reformations to education. We just need to try, and in this climate, the cost of not trying is outweighing the cost of trying.

        For parents who can't work at home because they work in essential services (healthcare, logistics), perhaps there could be small centres that will supervise them while they do their online learning?

  • Send the kids on meditation retreats, where they will all be seated 1.5m apart and have a consistent routine to train their mind and learn how to clean up after themselves.

    • clean up after themselves

      Hahahahaha, that's funny as hell

  • everyone should be staying at home for 14days, after 14 days…if u still getting the virus? purge

    • Yes, including doctors and nurses.

  • It's 2020, no reason why schools can't move curriculum to online for the next 6 months. Most students should have internet access and email.

    • Who cares for the children while they’re at home?

    • What about families with many kids? Don't think parents can provide computers to all of them.

  • +2

    For those calling for good hygiene practices and schools to remain open. A little perspective from a teacher in a Department school:
    -Despite claims that enhanced cleaning practices are occurring, that is not the case.
    -Schools are not getting any hand sanitiser and generally never have. We have ordered it and not received it.
    -Soap is not always available to students.
    -Soap is NEVER provided to staff (actually nearly nothing is provided to staff). It must be purchased ourselves.
    -Some schools only have ONE set of bathrooms for up to 1650 kids (my school anyway). That is 2 washbasins (about 10 taps) for 1650 students and a total of 10 toilet cubicles for 1650 students.
    -Classrooms of up to 30 students.
    -Narrow corridors for student movement between periods.

    We are being asked to prepare work for online learning, but also prepare for classes as usual. Workload is already high normally. There are difficulties:
    -As a low SES school, not all students will have access to a device or internet. We are thus preparing to print materials for students planning up to a term ahead in content.
    -We as teachers lack the infrastructure and equipment, particularly if working from home. Not all staff are issued devices to do their work, and will lack the required skills and software.

    In an ideal world, schools should still be running. I actually am fine with operating, but I have colleagues who are at greater risk, also those with families who are at high risk. We generally do not have the capabilities to provide a safe environment for staff and students.

  • UK Government just announced they will pay 80% of wages for employees not working. Imagine having a government that can come up with actual policies and solutions instead of stupid room size restrictions

  • Dear Parents, Guardians and Students

    Some significant decisions were made on Friday in relation to the impact of coronavirus (COVID-19) on schools.

    NAPLAN testing will not proceed for 2020. Please read the announcement if you are interested.

    ADDITIONAL PUPIL-FREE DAYS
    Teachers and schools are working hard to prepare for the possibility that we will need to move at some stage to more flexible learning arrangements, including remote learning. The Minister for Education today approved an additional two pupil-free days. The first will be on the last day of this term – Friday next week (27 March) – and the second will be on the first day of Term 2 (14 April) after the coming school holidays. This will provide an important opportunity for schools to consolidate their preparations. At XXXXXX all students who are well are encouraged to attend school before and after this extended Easter break, unless you are provided with another update to the contrary.
    AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCEMENTS
    This afternoon the National Cabinet announced new social-distancing measures, among a range of other measures to support our communities as we continue to deal with the challenges of the coronavirus (COVID-19).
    On the recommendation of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee (AHPPC), the National Cabinet also determined that early childhood settings, schools and higher education institutions remain exempt from these requirements.

    Department of Education and Training (DET) will continue to follow the recommendations of the Victorian Chief Health Officer, and if the advice changes, they will move to implement that advice as quickly as possible.

    Based on this advice, schools will continue to be open next week. This is important as DET remains firmly committed to ensuring that our children continue to gain the full benefits – both learning and social development – that schools provide.
    Students who are required to be self-isolating will be supported to continue their learning at home through a range of on and off-line resources. (There is only one student from XXXXXXXXX who is self isolating at this time of writing because this student has returned from overseas after midnight 15 March. Please be reassured that this student is healthy and well.)

    DET understands, however, that the new social-distancing measures might increase the level of anxiety in our communities. If your child is feeling highly anxious you are welcome to contact a member of our Wellbeing Team who can meet with your child to support him/her in coping with such feelings.
    We want to reassure our parents that next week, XXXXXXXXX will remain open and will continue to provide the full range of classroom teaching, learning and social activities that are so important for our students.
    If parents choose to keep their children at home, the onus will be on parents in the first instance to support the learning of their children. The Learning from Home website is also available for students and parents to use at home, and resources are available on the FUSE website.

    Given the challenge posed by coronavirus (COVID-19), it is obviously very important that our schools are safe workplaces. That’s why DET has increased school cleaning, increased supply of school cleaning products and provided advice to schools around commonsense social-distancing measures.

    I encourage students to keep attending XXXXXXXXXXX if they are feeling well and healthy. I thank all parents and students for their ongoing support and trust in the safeguards we are putting in place to allow our students to continue to be provided with a high quality education whilst our school is open. It is important we all remain calm and optimistic. Such an outlook will only strengthen our wonderful community. Please don’t hesitate to contact our school (XXXXXXXXX) should you have any concerns.
    Kind regards
    XXX
    Principal

  • My kids won't being going to school tomorrow . Main reason is the Government hasn't stopped or slowed the curve . Just like the US we has under tested as well so we don't know the full picture . The best graph is this : https://twitter.com/Matt_Hopcraft/status/1240604167401435136… .
    Update when looking at it to Australia with 1071 cases .

    • So 3-6 months at home then?

      • +2

        If that's what is takes.

    • Don't you need to work?

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