[AMA] I'm a Doctor. Ask Me Anything COVID-19 Related

Linamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 12:13
Last edited 26/03/2020 - 17:14 by 1 other user

As a doctor working in the emergency department, one thing I've noticed is that there has been a lot of misinformation out there. Patients are coming hoping to get tested for COVID-19, but end up wasting their time because they won't meet criteria to be eligible to get a swab. Others are receiving group texts stating that drinking hot water will kill the virus…

Please ask me anything related to COVID-19, even if it is the simplest question (as long as it is not direct medical advice). My aim is to provide some helpful information, because information is key.

I would also like to encourage everyone to self-isolate and stay at home if you can. Even if you are not sick! It is the only way that we are going to slow the spread of this virus. Countries such as Hong Kong and Singapore have implemented strict regimes early on for people to self-isolate, which has drastically slowed the spread of the virus in their countries, as opposed to our Western Neighbours, where there has been a rampant spread.

My colleagues and I have been trying to spread the word to everyone to take this simple step to protect ourselves and our community before it is too late. We are potentially 2 weeks away from where countries like the UK and Italy are at the moment, where our colleagues there have run out of beds and having to pick who to treat and who to leave to die..
They have also seen young healthy people being affected badly and dying from this disease, so do not think you are immune just because you are young! Please get the word out there and tell all your family and friends to STAY AT HOME!

We stay at work for you. Please stay at home for us

Interesting article regarding how self-isolation helps:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-si…

Looking forward to answering your questions!

Additional simple tips to reduce the spread!
1. Wash your hands often, especially before and after eating
2. Avoid touching your face
3. Cough and sneeze into your elbow

Mod: Please note that this is an unverified AMA and take any comments on this thread and anywhere else non-official with a grain of salt. Please see official advice from the Australian Government. While this is a worrying time, please be kind to each other including staff of OzBargain.

Introduce Yourself

closed Comments

      • mdavant on 25/03/2020 - 07:40
        -2

        So you are a gp.

        You know about as much as I know about this which is not much.

    • trapper on 22/03/2020 - 19:55

      Italy is just two or three weeks ahead with the virus progress there.

      Will be the same in many other countries soon.

    • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 12:42
      +14

      He said ED

      Literally the first line

        • Kangal on 21/03/2020 - 14:11
          +3

          He's less like Dr Pepper, and more like Dre

    • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 12:43
      +86

      Because what you read is stupid and wrong

    • 42 on 22/03/2020 - 07:27
      -2

      What you read is probably correct but that's outside the body. Inside the body it can survive at whatever the body temp is, 40° even i guess if you have a fever. viruses need a body to live and replicate. Outside the body they eventually die.

  • Arthur Dunger on 21/03/2020 - 12:53
    +2

    Which alcoholic drink will they use to name the next deadly virus?

  • arkie0 on 21/03/2020 - 12:56
    -1

    Cocaine kills the virus, how many lines do I take?

    • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 13:00
      +8

      One per nostril, twice a day for at least 14days

      • casho on 22/03/2020 - 17:23

        Say hello to my little friend!

  • Muzeeb on 21/03/2020 - 13:01

    Read official government medical advice only.

    • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 13:08
      +1

      Why? I don't think any of the screening, diagnosis or management guidelines that have been produced around the world in the last few weeks have been from any government.

  • arkie0 on 21/03/2020 - 13:03
    -4

    Cryptolocker has been around for a number of years and people are still getting infected. Is this virus worse than the recent Cryptolocker virus?

    • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:21

      Not as bad as the Pacman virus tho.

  • Meho2026 on 21/03/2020 - 13:18
    +13

    In NSW, there are health districts whos Emergency Department policy is when patients present with respiratory symptoms, they are given a face mask and the curtains are pulled around the bed.
    The staff are told not to use any PPE. If the patient is sick enough to be admitted to the ward, then they must be tested and the staff are only then directed to wear PPE.
    I know this because I work in one.

    Surely this is putting staff at risk and everyone with respiratory symptoms should be treated as if they have it until proven otherwise.

    What do you think of that and what do you do at your hospital?

    • inamotoichiban on 23/03/2020 - 14:52

      We have been wearing face masks to see our respiratory patients, and washing our hands diligently.
      It is definitely a risk not to use any PPE and I think that staff should be protected as much as possible. Otherwise they are at risk of getting it and passing it on to others.

  • MagicMushroom on 21/03/2020 - 13:19
    +2

    what do you think about people wearing N95 respirator in public?

    Are people not taking things seriously or too seriously?

    Are you impressed or disappointed with people's knowledge & ability to find the right information about COVID19?

    But most importantly, do you have a toilet paper?

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 15:06
      +25

      I think the best measure is to keep yourself away from other people if you can, and to practice good hand hygiene in order to lower your chance of getting it.

      In general, my colleagues and I feel that the majority of the general public are not taking it seriously. This has been expressed in multiple doctors chat groups, and hence why there is a push to get the word out for people to start taking this seriously. There is also a general disappointment with the government's actions so far, and a feeling that they acted too late to implement some things (for example a border closure). A doctor's petition is currently going around at the moment to ask the government to implement a lockdown.

      I feel that a lot of information is being distributed around. Some which is good and others which is blatantly wrong and dangerous. I would encourage people to use the government websites to get the correct information. In regards to their recommendations, we feel that it is not aggressive enough, nonetheless it is better than nothing.

      And yes we have fortunately been able to get some toilet paper, but are trying to minimise the amount we use so that we can do our bit to reduce demand for it.

      • witsa on 21/03/2020 - 15:19

        I just asked this question regarding masks (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/525773)

        Wouldn't mind your expert opinion on the matter.

      • nfr on 21/03/2020 - 15:46

        Yeah HK doctors and nurses complained (even went on strike) about pretty much the same thing, the Government should know better but didn't do better.

      • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 23/03/2020 - 10:45

        Border closures are made difficult by political correctness. If they do it too soon they are called racist, if they do it too late they are called incompetent.

        • trapper on 23/03/2020 - 12:43
          +2

          Politicians should be more focused on saving millions of lives and less worried about what names they get called.

  • nfr on 21/03/2020 - 13:23
    +1

    What's the PPE supply situation in your hospital? Do you guys have enough masks?

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 15:14
      +4

      We do at the moment, but that might change

  • seraphim2017 on 21/03/2020 - 14:09
    -7

    Any Medical Doctor working in a state hospital ED (Not a JMO, a proper staff specialist etc.) worth their salt would direct people to www.health.gov.au (or their appropriate state equivalent) for official advice, and not the Washington post.

    ED Doctors are not qualified Public Health physicians, and given how many questions are asked by ED medics on infectious disease control, I'd consider this advice to be ? at best.

    If you remove yourself from all human contact, and from where humans have been, and quarantine all incoming material into a premises for the maximum period it can survive as a fomite on surfaces, then in theory you would be safe. Until you return to society and touch something.

    Do not assume a vaccine IS viable at this stage, there is work being done.
    Do not assume you can only catch it once, you may be able to catch it again, it may NOT infer T cell immune responses.
    Do not assume that being young will result in a lesser illness.
    DO not assume that covid-19 will leave no long term health effects. Recovery" with fibrosis of the lungs won't be great.

    DO keep your distance from other people, as the Government have asked, and DO follow any future directions without complaining it interferes with your day. Yes it does, but the sooner people start acting like it's real, the sooner the case levels reduce (with the appropriate incubation lag) and the sooner life will return to normal.
    DO remain away from people if you have ANY symptoms of ANY type, you don't want to spread Flu A either! and you have NO idea if you have been in close contact with a confirmed case.

    Also, from non clinical point of view

    DO remember that how you act is who you are, so don't be a grub and deny the elderly the opportunity to live out their lives in peace with basic essentials. Our grandparents were asked to leave home for war to save the human race. All you're being asked to do is stay home to achieve the same.

    • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:20
      -1

      for the maximum period it can survive as a fomite on surfaces

      I thought the virus survives a shorter time on surfaces than a fortnight. I thought it was 72 hours at most?

      • seraphim2017 on 21/03/2020 - 14:25
        +5

        Fomite not fortnight. Fomite are the particles of sub droplet size aerosol.

    • DingoBilly on 21/03/2020 - 16:07
      +17

      Calls out OP for giving out advice and trying to help and says they're not qualified.

      Proceeds to give advice and tell people what to do.

      Are you the kettle or the pot?

  • jjjaar on 21/03/2020 - 14:11
    +1

    What do you recommend in terms of going out for exercise? I’m assuming based on your other replies, we should avoid gyms as they may involve closer contact with others? But what about going for a walk/run in our local areas where others may not be on the footpaths?

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 15:21
      +5

      Definitely avoid gyms, as you can be within close contact in a closed room with others. You may also be touching gym equipment which has been used by others.

      If you have to go out for a walk/run, I would recommend doing it at a less busy time, and definitely keeping your distance when you are out.

      • jjjaar on 21/03/2020 - 15:24

        Thanks for your reply!

        My normal outdoor walking/running route I’d be shocked if I passed more than 3 people in an hour. Might suspend the gym membership for now.

        Sorry - additional question -

        What about visiting friends and family in their homes if no one in attendance has any symptoms or any link to any cases/and have not been overseas.

        • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 18:36
          +3

          Once real community spread is here you don't know about links to the case that infected you.

          It's unclear how long someone may be infectious before they are symptomatic.

          You will be fine as long as
          1. It's the same people in the group
          2. No new people coming into the group along the way
          3. No one already in the group mixing with anyone outside the group
          4. No one in the group getting infected from fomite contact.

          That, in essence, is you all being in isolation together. Except the most likely outcome is someone in the group will make a mistake and infect everyone else.

  • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:17
    +3

    OP: Has there been any update in your circles if there is confirmation that you can't get COVID19 twice?

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 15:23
      +3

      I don't think there is a consensus on this yet.
      There have been reports that people have tested positive to COVID-19 again after having the illness, however it is unsure whether this is due to ongoing viral shedding from their initial illness, or if it is reinfection

      • nix1016 on 23/03/2020 - 11:51
        +2

        In that case, why are certain countries such as Netherlands opting for the herd immunity method to combat this?

        • inamotoichiban on 23/03/2020 - 15:03
          +1

          Herd immunity is essentially letting a large portion of people get infected so that people will become immune and then the spread will slow.
          There are a few problems with this.
          1. A whole lot of people need to be infected. You will be overwhelming health systems by doing this, and causing more deaths as a result.
          The UK initially had the same thought, however I believe they have since backtracked after learning how many lives it would cost them
          2. Like you touched on, it assumes you cannot get infected twice. Whilst re-infection has not yet been substantiated, we are not 100% certain. I hope for our sakes it is false.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 14:24
    +20

    Look at Bondi today - It's become obvious many Australians are not taking this seriously, predominately young Australians who think they are immune. Whereas I had to self-isolate due to exposure to a person who found out they had COVID-19 (48 hours later), which gave me a reality check. However someone else I know who was also supposed to self-isolate went back to work 4 days early because they couldn't take it anymore and were worried about their job, another went to the shops to stock-up first because they lived alone and said they had no alternatives. These are intelligent educated people too.

    I am concerned voluntary self-isolation isn't working. Too many people, particularly young, will ignore precautionary advice and messages need to be sent out about how they pose a risk to themselves and others. People are selfish - do we need to get stricter and enforce containment for the greater good?

    I am also concerned about how we all continue to purchase essentials as this continues without spreading the virus given someone from every household visits the grocery store even if isolation is in place. I recently posted a poll - "Study finds EFTPOS most contaminated surface incl. CoV - Should Contactless Card Limits be raised? Shopping in COVID-19 pandemic" - see https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/525663

    It's not about panic buying, my normal family shop hasn't been under $100 since before I was married/no kids years ago, and some other countries are already doing it. I was surprised the majority of people are saying 'no' to my poll, despite no great downsides. I think it shows people still think this is a far away problem that won't effect them, that everyone can trusted to take precautions / wash hands / self-isolate, and that being careful is 'germophobic'.

    If the the shopping centre will be permitted to access in a lockdown, such as EFTPOS machines and cash are a community transmission risk. Given a number of people just don't seem to care, and won't clean hands etc, have run out of sanitizer, I think more measures that make a statement such as raising contactless limits will get people thinking more, or create less community transmission risk out of mere convenience. What do you think?

    • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:34

      Given a number of people just don't seem to care, and won't clean hands etc,

      Maybe take a poll on that first before making that assertion.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 14:37
        +2

        It only takes a few - I am surrounded by them at my workplace and my mates - I don't need a poll. Even if its 10% (like all the people on Bondi today ignoring medical advice), its enough to require action - we need a reality check - not all people are going to be careful and self-isolate, some are even proud of being defiant - its just life.

        Its also become very hard, I had to use a machine the other day and have run out of sanitizer, had no convenient place to wash hands, and was caught off guard with an alternative way to press the buttons.

        What do you benefit by trusting 100% of people will do the right thing when it is a certainty the actual number will be less than 100%?

      • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 14:43
        +2

        For example, I still was the odd one out (before I ran out of sanitizer) at a work dinner in the past fortnight for sanitizing my hands before we ate. At least 10 others at the table, depite Coronavirus being a hot discussion topic, shook hands with everyone else at the table and sat shoulder to shoulder, including overseas guests, handled communal menus, salt/pepper shakers etc, door handles, cash, then ate including entrees etc with their hands. I felt like a 'germophobe' for trying to change this sort of behaviour by santiziing after handshakes and using utensils for the food in a public setting - you'd think there was no COVID-19 pandemic at all. Then all looked silly when we had to go into self-isolation. Some felt like idiots. Reality check please.

        • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:48
          +1

          at a work dinner in the past fortnight

          Probably should avoid going to these.

          • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 14:48

            @serpserpserp: But its exactly my point, I decided to be careful by taking sanitizer etc, then I had a close call reality check - 20 million people still haven't had that

            • serpserpserp on 21/03/2020 - 14:52

              @MrFrugalSpend: I think what happened at your dinner a fortnight ago probably is a long way from today. People go to the beach for entertainment but I doubt everyone is at the beach hugging and kissing strangers (although it IS Bondi ;) ) Most people today won't even attend a work function let alone handshake, share food etc.

              • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 14:54
                +2

                @serpserpserp: Agree a lot has happened in 2 weeks - although I didn't see most of it as i was in a room.

                However, talk about mixed messages, I watched Nine News in Qld last night and the first half of the news was a compelling story about everyone from cafes and pubs that have lost jobs, and hurting small business, encouraging everyone to eat out and 'adopt a cafe'… then they did a story by the Premier who was scolding people for being out and ignoring warnings! WTF

  • popsiee on 21/03/2020 - 14:48
    +5

    The Salivation Army has lost my respect saying they won't report the numerous people that should be in isolation that aren't .
    They prefer to help the spread .
    It really is a mess the so called official organizations including the government trying to fight the curb .

    • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 15:30
      +24

      You are very wrong. This is very dangerous thinking.
      All those other deaths will still occur - this is additional.

      The reason it hasn't killed many people is because so much isolation has been put in place (even though it could have been better) to stop it. It requires people taking it seriously for that to work. When we didn't have such good communications pandemics killed 50 million + people at a time historically. Without controls, it could kill somewhere from 100,000 to 600,000 people in Australia this year if allowed to run rampant - you have to trust the health authorities know this is a big deal if they don't act.

      Its a completely new strain, which is not the same thing as how influenza adapts. This means there is no immunity in the 'herd' so we are all very susceptible all at once. That is the problem, the number of people who get it at any one time. If uncontrolled, people will literally be dying on the streets of all sort of conditions, not just Coronavirus - It could be a car accident, a heart attack, influenza, a party drug overdose - it could be you, young or old - it doesn't matter what the serious condition is - the problem is the strain on the medical system of an outbreak being so severe, so suddenly, means people will die because we can't treat them with any medicine - no doctors, no beds, no ambulance, you're on your own!

      As for COVID-19, not every victim has underlying medical conditions and regardless - you presume that means they have a right to die? I have family members who've been living with conditions for years and will continue to if they don't get Coronavirus. I have a neighbour with a family member that has a serious lung condition for 11 years through no fault of their own - Its manageable without a pandemic when medical help is available. People who say they are young and don't care - good for you… you go spread it around, you are literally killing people.

      Once its out there, if it stays out there, eventually someone you know will develop an 'underlying medical conditon' - it could be your parents, your loved ones, you - won't you wish you helped stopped Coronavirus before it started then!

      IT'S A VERY VERY BIG DEAL

        • Meho2026 on 21/03/2020 - 16:33
          +4

          Tell us where your expert analysis is drawn from.
          I am assuming you are a highly qualified and experienced epidemiologist, extensively involved in disease trajectory modelling with WHO project management work history or you wouldnt be so foolish as to disagree with every expert on the planet.

          • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 17:41
            -1

            @Meho2026: I don't know everything, nor do I claim to. I am not a doctor, never have I claimed to be, here or anywhere online and hence I asked since the OP opened this forum

            I formed a few points and wanted an objective argument why my thoughts and perspective should be looked at from a different angle.

            Everytime I speak out of 'normal' I am automatically placed in the "i dont care about this virus' camp whicl is absluately bullocks.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 15:59
        +2

        Sorry but I think we're just wasting our breath.

        • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 16:05

          And this is uncalled for, I am asking the OP to "challenge my points and try to persuade me to look at it from a different angle?"

          I am open to discussion, just we are BOMBARDED by experts, family, friends, colleagues, everyone about this. I want objectivity from people with first hand skillsets in this virus.

          • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 16:20
            +7

            @TheMindsetTraveller: I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like you're open for discussion. As I said before, I purposefully didn't use ANY medical facts but just addressed your multiple false equivalences. Objectivity is looking at Italy which you have but you only say it's because they have underlying conditions. Do you think Australians don't? You just don't make any valid or reasonable points that could be taken seriously at all. Especially that last point, even if a vaccine is made people will still die, so what? we give up? roll over? You said you have been bombarded by EXPERTS and there's no lack of professional information online. If THIS is the conclusion you've come to after being BOMBARDED by EXPERTS then I'm sorry friend.

          • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 16:22
            +8

            @TheMindsetTraveller: I agree. The whole purpose of this is to educate and help challenge people's thinking regarding this.
            I appreciate the time you've put in to submit these questions.
            There's no need for any abuse.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 22:15
        -3

        Thunder storm asthma is far more devistating then covid19, and if alot of people did get infected they still will recover, just not the elderly call it what you want noah's ark genocide cleaning.

        Nature does the nastiest of things and is the deadliest thing.

        Death is inevitable, people die more from mosquitoes then anything else, but the only devistating thing covid19 is doing, is destroying the economy.

        • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 23:01
          +4

          only devastating thing? yes you are pointing out there are lots of devastating things, but tell that to Italians dying in the overcrowded waiting rooms in Lombardy right now, or the US family that lost 4 family members this week after a family dinner together. Thats with the controls in place… In 1918 to 1920 the Spanish Flu killed 50,000,000 - that is what this could do if authorities didn't act … makes asthma and mozzies, which are devastating, pale in comparison

          • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2020 - 07:08
            -3

            @MrFrugalSpend: Still it's marginal, (and thunderstorm asthma is deadly because it's sheer ability to come aggressively) death is inevitable, and yes I could tell it too all the Italians in hospital, I could tell my self at the last days of breathe, but could you.

            Anyways the Spanish flu was a time, just like now where mother nature still was and is in control( who cares if you agree or disagree), don't think once you have control over the situation because you do not, you learn from them and move on.

            Mosquitos are mother nature's most complex biological weapons that can contain any infected blood where it would be a pathegen nightmare.

            Bats can live side by side with the most deadliest viruses for good reason, something we lack or understand, and because of that death is inevitable.

            • inamotoichiban on 22/03/2020 - 15:51
              +4

              @[Deactivated]: That is a very dangerous way of thinking Shibbito

              These are preventable deaths we are talking about. Something everyone can do to stay safe

              During the Thunderstorm asthma event in Victoria a few years ago, there were 10 deaths. COVID-19 has already caused 11,000+ deaths

              There is no time to be passive about this. We can all do our bit and stay home!

              Here is a graphic to really drum it in.
              https://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Covid-19…

              • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2020 - 16:01
                -3

                @inamotoichiban: 1 million in 3 months would be catestrophic, 1 billion wild life in Australia in less then 4 months beyond comprehension.

                Mosquitos kill more people then any other known catestrophic event to humans.

                So the numbers are minimal in regards to the outbreak, and since it's not my duty to promote public safety for I do not work nor the government, nor any sector of that. You chose that career path your problem, but if you stated it's impact on jobs, and businesses and the global market sure I'd say it's devistating just like the Australian bushfire that wipes out a billion wild life, I'm sure you were not advocating the sheer numbers because it wasn't your job too.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 15:47
      +3

      Look at your point 1 and point 4, you seem to imply that it since it's only killed 6-7 in AUSTRALIA that we're acting over the top. Your point 4 seems to imply that you know 4000+ people have died in Italy but you blame it on underlying medical conditions (which how many people have in Australia?). It's killed 6-7 but you ONLY mention deaths but you don't mention how many have to be hospitalized and the damage it could have on you afterwards. You're comparing deaths from every single cause ranging from cancer, car crashes and freak accidents to a new disease that's still in it's primitive stages. Depending on the mortality rate, if you believe point 4 that's still thousands additional dead. I don't even understand your point 5, what are you saying? That's like saying we shouldn't address antibiotic resistance because it's still bacteria, just a new strain. Point 6, again implies that the flu vaccine is useless, it's about saving as many lives as we can, yes people will still die but we want to reduce it as much as possible. Why do you want to take a reactive approach? Yeah things look fine now, lets keep it that way, why wait till it gets to Italy level before you realize how serious it can get? I simply just don't understand.
      I'm sorry but you seem like the type that would still travel in this condition and use whatever reasoning you need to justify yourself.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 15:48
        -3

        I am asking the OP, unless you have a related medical background.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 15:54
          +6

          Please, it doesn't take a medical background to address your points, I have purposely tried to use as little medical knowledge required as possible and just use simply reasoning, facts and figures. I have tried to just use the points you've given me. Even if OP has a medical background, there is nothing he can add that isn't already out there. For example, your point 1, like (profanity) look at Italy and the hell they're going through. I've talked to people like you, I know that nothing will change your mind let alone some random on OzBargain whom you've haven't even confirmed has a medical background. There are many videos on youtube from actual doctors who will tell you the same thing. I was on this cancerous forum on OzBargain where despite the situation, many people were still happy to go travelling which thank god the government have closed our borders.

          Besides, you're right, I don't have a medical background but my sister does. I can happily have her confirm what I said/answer your questions.

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 16:04
      +6

      Thanks TheMindsetTraveller for your questions

      In regards to your points
      Most Australian cases have only come up in the last week, meaning that the people infected are still going through the course of their illness. Out of the 1023 Australian cases currently, only 46 people have recovered and 7 people have died. That means for the 970 active cases, there will undoubtedly be more deaths. There is always a lag in the death rate, and this will increase at a increasing rate if we don't do something about this.
      (Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

      This is a virus that we can limit and we can reduce the amount of people affected if we take active steps. These are preventable deaths we are talking about. Out of the 103,356 cases in the world which are not active, 11,404 have died.

      It is true that if you have an underlying medical condition, you are more likely to die from it, but there are also plenty of cases of young people without any comorbidities who have died. You never know if it is going to be you, so it is best to take it seriously. Plus if you are sick, you could also be spreading it to more vulnerable people in the community unknowingly.

      This is not like the flu or asthma. It is much more serious and the death rates are much higher

      I hope these points can help to persuade you to look at this more seriously. Feel free to ask any follow up questions if you like!

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 17:36
        -4

        Thank you, I like your obective answers. This is what I need to hear and from someone who is in the field.

        I have always taken this virus seriously no matter which side of the fence I have sat on. I have insisted to everyone to practice excellent hygeine, to be super aware if they are sick, to maintain separation distance and isolate if in any doubt.

        I have been overseas for the past 17 days (Thailand) and had always intended to self-isolate upon returning; advising both work and family prior to leaving that I would isolate upon return. Obviously the government announcement solidified my intention.

        I am trying to be "positive" in light on the ongoing bombardment of negativity (from news, social media, family, friends) and everytime I try to offer a different perspective, I am attacked for being "I do not care" mentality, which is abosutely untrue.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 19:06
          +7

          Mate your different perspective was we have vaccines for the flu and other diseases but people still die. You failed to even consider, acknowledge or address anyone elses point of view except if they are a self proclaimed expert. You don't even DEFEND YOUR OWN POINT OF VIEWS. You just state them. And what, now they're changed just like that? It just shows how ridiculous they were in the first place. Had you actually tried to have a discussion with anyone else and not refuse to listen to them and discredit them simply because they weren't a health professional, even when I could provide you links to many credible sources where you can RESEARCH YOURSELF, you wouldn't have been attacked. I'm not even surprised you still went overseas in this climate given your attitude and it was absolutely irresponsible but yet you claim you're taking this serious when other people in your situation cancelled.

          Half of what OP said is just common sense and the other half have been said by health professionals for weeks. I don't know why it took a random on ozbargain to convince you considering you sound like you have so much skepticism.

          • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 19:13
            -2

            @[Deactivated]: One of the best advice I have ever received was "don't take critism from anyone who you would never take advice from"

            • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 19:21
              +2

              @TheMindsetTraveller: Yes this explains a lot and it's pretty clear why, you're only after whoever gives you advice inline with your already current preconceived views and goals. I wasn't criticising you, I was just saying it was quite rude to simply ignore people who tried to give you facts. I'd take criticism from anyone, if I think I'm right, I'll defend myself, if I'm proven wrong I'll concede. Simple as that. Goodluck mate, stay safe.

              • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 20:57
                -5

                @[Deactivated]: Your opinions about me mean nothing. You started the attack first.

                This is an AMA and I offered my thoughts for the OP to answer, not some random lay person to add their 2 cents.

                Would've loves your objective feedback IF you had medically related training or expertise. You had none so preferred to wait for the OP so thanks but no thanks.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 15:57
    +1

    Hi OP, I saw on the news that 20% is the best case scenario which I find hard to believe since countries like China, South Korea and Japan haven't even hit 100,000 and it's leveling out. What are your thoughts on this?

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 16:25
      +8

      I find it hard to comment on these numbers as I'm not an epidemiologist or an expert in this area

      The only thing I can say is that we can reduce the numbers by practicing social isolation.

      Hong Kong learnt their lesson from SARS, and are taking this far more serious than we are. That is why I think their transmission rates are so much lower.

    • pilotyuan on 21/03/2020 - 18:03
      +5

      You can't imagine how strict methods these countries take to control the spread.

      Everyone arrives China now would take COVID-19 RNA test before allow to 14days self isolation. You would be lucky to have a temperature test when arrive Australia.

      Sure, that would hurt the economic a lot but benefit in a long way.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 20:42

        So you think the 20% number being the best case scenrio is right?

        • drrrr on 21/03/2020 - 21:45
          +4

          Dude, China, Korea, Taiwan and Singapore are taking this far more seriously than any other Western country. They have crazy amount of monitoring (e.g. GPS tracking via mobile). When Wuhan 'locked down', they did it properly. No more outdoor trips to the shops, food and groceries are delivered to the house, mobile checkpoints everywhere. It is possible Italy is not doing enough for their 'lock down', and cases may continue to increase. Sadly, it appears Australia is on course with Europe, so yes I won't be surprised if we continue to get exponential growth.

          • CarbonMini on 23/03/2020 - 12:50

            @drrrr: Issue is, draconian methods simply cannot be implemented in nations such as Australia and the US because then we would complaint that the government is greatly impeding on our rights as free citizens.

            • trapper on 23/03/2020 - 14:05
              +1

              @CarbonMini: They absolutely can be.

            • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2020 - 08:42

              @CarbonMini: I'm still looking at ours numbers and thinking it's going to take a long time to get to 5mil…

  • Zeusy on 21/03/2020 - 15:58

    Is bringing up phlegm a sign of recovery or that the virus is getting worse?

  • DealsBoy on 21/03/2020 - 16:51
    +1

    Check out this Coronavirus/COVID Quiz

    CORONAVIRUS QUIZ and check this out for official information

    https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coron…

    Simple things to do

    • Physical distancing from others - keep 2x2m from others at all times (4m2 - about area of double bed)
    • Wash your hands with soap & water frequently especially after outside contact (or hand sanitizer).
    • avoid touching your face
    • practice cough and sneeze etiquette - cover with elbow or tissue - throw away tissue & importantly wash your hands

    Some great posters and videos on this page from the world health organisation

    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2…

    Cough etiquette poster

    https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/pandemic/Publications/cough-et…

    Please share these resources and put up the posters

  • stumo on 21/03/2020 - 17:13

    What are your thoughts on the decision to keep schools open?

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/03/2020 - 17:37
    -2

    Thank you, I like your obective answers. This is what I need to hear and from someone who is in the field.

    I have always taken this virus seriously no matter which side of the fence I have sat on. I have insisted to everyone to practice excellent hygeine, to be super aware if they are sick, to maintain separation distance and isolate if in any doubt.

    I have been overseas for the past 17 days (Thailand) and had always intended to self-isolate upon returning; advising both work and family prior to leaving that I would isolate upon return. Obviously the government announcement solidified my intention.

    I am trying to be "positive" in light on the ongoing bombardment of negativity (from news, social media, family, friends) and everytime I try to offer a different perspective, I am attacked for being "I do not care" mentality, which is absolutely untrue.

  • p1 ama on 21/03/2020 - 17:55
    +24

    My wife is an epidemiologist at a major Australian university. She's not on OzB, but we were discussing this thread and this is what she wanted to say:

    "I respect the work that doctors do. Dealing with patients is tough, so unlike the ones who soldiered on, I did a master's in biostatistics then PhD in health policy and decided to pursue a career in public health instead. It's great that doctors have stepped up to advise the public. They're one of the most trusted professions and the public always look towards their doctors for guidance and advice. I am confident doctors speaking out on this topic have extensive knowledge of the clinical aspects of the disease.

    However, I am concerned about doctors who then proceed to speak from a position of authority on matters of public and health policy. Just like I would have little idea how to treat a patient with COVID-19, most doctors have little background in health policy, epidemiology and public health. When I was in medical school, biostatistics and epidemiology were regularly scorned subjects. It's just not really all that relevant to physicians and basically irrelevant to surgeons. It's no different to asking a civil engineer about whether to build a new road or a new train line.

    Public policy is more complex than just the clinical aspects of disease. We need to think about the economic, psychological and societal impacts of health policy beyond simply just the immediate mortality rate."

    What do you think?

    • cheaplee on 21/03/2020 - 19:01
      +23

      I think your wife sounds like a very clever lady.

      The OP has in no way taken or implied there is any economic, social or psychological consideration to his stance. It's very hard to ask a frontline clinician to care about how much the ASX will drop or how many businesses will go bust with the flow on effects that may have. They are more concerned with how many of their patients are going to die as they will be unable to treat them effectively and hopelessly overwhelmed.

      I think both opinions are valuable.

      • p1 ama on 21/03/2020 - 23:58
        +4

        We weren't attacking OP at all in our discussion. We actually both agree that OP deserves plenty of respect for continuing to turn up to work in time of crisis and helping us through this.

        I was more asking OP what he thinks about the many doctors who have given public health suggestions which are simply opinions. I'm friends with quite a few doctors, just looking on my FB feed, I can see a range of suggestions on matters such as the effectiveness of school closures, border controls, whether we'll have a "second wave"…etc. Many of these statements are sometimes contradictory and can confuse people more than help them.

        Out of my friends who are doctors, I can see some who do follow the research and try to simply explain it in a more digestable way for the general public, but some are definitely just offering their "opinions", which I think is problematic because it's backed up by "I'm a doctor".

    • Cherry12 on 21/03/2020 - 20:06

      Spot on! Obviously health and low rate of infection is very important but the government has to look at the whole picture.

    • inamotoichiban on 21/03/2020 - 20:08
      +9

      Hi p1 ama, thank you for your input.

      I really appreciate what your wife is saying, and I am very aware of this too.
      In no way am I a public health/epidemiology expert, however my aim is to relay the seriousness of the matter ahead, and to encourage people to do something that has been shown to reduce the number of lives lost from this.

      Our AMA president has been saying the exact same thing to the media and encouraging everyone to stay at home if they can.

      • p1 ama on 21/03/2020 - 23:59

        In no way am I a public health/epidemiology expert, however my aim is to relay the seriousness of the matter ahead, and to encourage people to do something that has been shown to reduce the number of lives lost from this.

        I completely agree with you! I wasn't trying to criticise you in any way and I appreciate the work you do and the time you've taken to post here and encourage others to do the right thing.

        I was more trying to engage with you on a broader discussion (see above). But yes, I do agree with what you're saying.

      • p1 ama on 22/03/2020 - 00:08
        +2

        I read your post and felt you as a trusted doctor, wtf are you doing misdirecting the community, our supreme leader and his expert medical advisor has work hard to devise his master genius plan and have advised the small people to stay at skool and you tell them its best to self isolate? You are out of your jurisdiction doctor, our supreme leader and his expert medical advisor has complex planning that nobody including you can understand, and you must think about the consequences of destroying his master plan if you were to give the wrong info.

        What are you even talking about? How is what I said "anti free speech"? I was simply raising my wife's concern (as a person who practices in this field) regarding clinicians from other fields, at times, giving policy suggestions.

        I'm not a medical doctor, but spending quite a lot of time with one, I understand that they are all very specialised - the common education they have in medical school only forms one part of their training. Her concern is that having a dermatologist (for example) give opinions on infectious disease is no different from having a dermatologist give opinions on a knee reconstruction. Of course, it would sound silly for a dermatologist to act as an expert on knee reconstructions, but the issue is that when it comes to epidemiology and public health, everyone seems to be an expert.

        I was just asking OP's opinion as to whether he thinks this is okay. Given that the general public are confused about many things - e.g. whether we should ban cash, close schools, close borders, close restaurants…etc. I think it's important that there is a unified message based around peer-reviewed research which helps to inform people about the facts rather than encourage the public to make wild speculations.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 21/03/2020 - 20:33
      +1

      @p1 ama I was aware of this distinction. Interestingly, everyone have circles of people they trust and select from for advice on particular issues. For example, you may have a good friend who is into I.T. so that's who you would ask for an opinion on a tech product. I.T. is also a diverse field, they may be a web programmer and have limited idea about the PC question you posed to them, but they are still trusted influencer for advice with a greater knowledge than the average Joe.

      Not having access to Epidemiologists, Medical Doctors, particularly GPs, being at the front line are in most people's circles of trust when it comes to COVID-19. I doubt you could find one GP practicing at present that hasn't been asked several public health questions on COVID-19 every single day for over a month.

      It is presumably important that the epidemiology community keep the flow of consistent/concise information to the AMA and particularly RACGP accordingly as to findings/why decisions are being made - and I would hope they listen, but perhaps it can be hard when an otherwise knowledgeable group potentially 'scorn' these areas of study??

      I would be interested to know what your wife thinks the message would be of a simple policy change like raising the contactless card limits on EFTPOS transactions, as is happening in Ireland and Turkey, given studies have shown how machine keypads can transmit viruses including CoV - given someone from every household will all still need to go out shopping for essentials when a lockdown happens, which for a family total more than $100, and with a shortage of sanitizer and convenient places to wash hands (and some complacency from a few people) its one place we can reduce community transmission risk (and just getting people thinking about little steps that help!) - I posted a poll on the topic but haven't been getting much support - see Study finds EFTPOS most contaminated surface incl. CoV - Should Contactless Card Limits be raised? Shopping in COVID-19 pandemic

    • nfr on 22/03/2020 - 01:35

      Public policy is certainly complex. In fact it is so complex that our economies haven't been run very well despite all the economics PHDs in our governments. I wish policy makers had the humility to truly appreciate the impossibility of their job descriptions.

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