Outrageous Cost of Kids Braces

Hello,

My 12 year old son needs to get braces. I don't have private health and apparently my ex-husband cannot help me pay $7,400 for braces. It's a lot for one parent! In my state, we only have two orthodontists but I'm sure there might be dentists that can possibly take care of this. I don't qualify for a health care card, unfortunately. I would like to hear from other parents who have had to get their kids braces without private health. Were you able to reduce the cost somehow? The dental benefits scheme doesn't cover orthodontics.

Thanks

Comments

  • In my state, we only have two orthodontists

    I'd be shocked if that was true. It's not shocking though that they charge as if it is.

    • Location: NT

      Wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.

      • It's honestly true. There was a third a few years ago but he has since retired.

      • I know some people were calling for the NT to become a state but didn't think it already happened.

        • I think NT is in quite a state.

          • @Scrooge McDuck: I’m in a Darwin. There are two obstetricians here. I’ve paid over $7k just in fees. Monthly appointments are $130. I finally hit the Medicare thresh hold so now I get 80% back. There was a bill at the beginning for $2,750 to have the obstetrician on standby. My cousin down south said she didn’t pay for that one. I guess here they can charge anything they like. No competition. We need more specialised practitioners to bring more competition.

            • @koplik8: same in regional Queensland

            • @koplik8: Are you really sure that this can be claimed in medicare safety thresholds? From what I read orthodontics or cosmetic dental is not covered..

            • @koplik8:

              My cousin down south said she didn’t pay for that one.

              It's called going through the public system. You can do that too in the NT.

            • @koplik8: How did you get 80% back - doesn’t quite sound right??

              • @rappy68: Theres a medicare threshold cap. So after your Medicare rebate expenses reach a cap (within a 1 year period), all expenses are covered to 80%.
                The same happened for myself and my wife 8 years ago when we had our son. I think the threshold was $7000 or something like that (back then). We were private.. but it covered all our expenses which were Medicare scheduled. I'm not sure if it has to be obstetrics costs to activate it out not. But it is a thing. It really helped because i had a lot of appointments for specialists for some chronic medical conditions too, and those people are expensive and my experience in some segments of the public sector haven't been great.

            • @koplik8: Did you mean to say obstetrician, a doctor that deals with childbirth?

    • There used to be 3 orthodontists in the town I grew up in, 20 years ago that town had a population of 20,000… somehow I doubt there’s only 2 in the whole of NT!

  • Payment plan direct with the ortho.

    • Make sure they don't cost an arm and a leg with interest fees.

      • If its not interest rates, the fees will get you anyway.

        Unfortunately, unless you try and go for a personal loan or low rate credit card, the in-house payment plans are sometimes your only option.

  • I work for an orthodontist, but am not an orthodontist myself and this is not medical advice or otherwise.

    Yes, treatment is very expensive depending on the type of treatment required. Some dentists can perform orthodontist style work, but there are legal and medical limits on what they can do. Every case is different. Avoid the temptation to compare quotes on the internet.

    You may be able to try Smile Direct Club that offers a much cheaper service, but it cannot fix all problems, is done remotely, and the treatment is run from overseas.

    • how can it be done remortly?

      • Wireless technology. Bluetooth.

      • I'm getting Invisalign done at the moment from Smile Direct Club. A regular quote was ~$6k, their one was ~$3k.

        Went into the store in Sydney where a technician used a device to make a 3D scan of my teeth and took like 100 pictures. This was then sent to the orthodontist who emailed back to me a 3D model of the end result. If you're happy you sign up and pay (at once or instalment based).
        Then they send you all the aligners at once.

        @cluster is right. They can fix all problems and there are few videos on YouTube where it went wrong as the patient was not suitable in the first place and the remote dentist failed to realise it using the images (One person had cavities which went unnoticed and the aligners damaged the tooth).

        So if you've never been to a dentist in your life maybe talk to one and get an opinion first. I get regular checkups and spoke to the dentist before going to check with him if he could see any reason why Invisalign would not work for me.
        As per OPs case, eligibility criteria for Invisalign can be different from braces.
        They have a totally remote route as well I think. Where you take the images yourself and use an impression kit they send in the post.

        • I only found out about this online company after i had gotten my invisalign from my dentist who charged like 7k plus there are always extras along the way that they dont tell you about. Thing is even with the dentists, all they do is get scans then send it off to the company that makes them so really they are doubling up on the price for not much work on their end. I realised after a while that my dentists are like salesmen, always trying to upsell me on different treatments that end up costing a bomb. MY old dentists were never like that so i just assumed when a dentist recommends something its purely for your health / benefit and not just some sales job.

        • How are you finding invisalign via Smile Direct Club? I'm looking to get it done soon, and found Smile Direct, but wasn't sure as they seem to promise results in a lot less time than the Invisalign website advertises, so it made me question how they can do that.

        • Issue - no store in the OP's state for them to go to to get scanned.

          As someone who is currently about to finish using 'Clear Aligner' technology (not "Invisalign", I'm using Clear Correct via a dentist) I would not recommend these at all especially for a kid. I was loathe to brush my teeth when I was a kid (hence adult braces) so I can't imagine how disciplined a young one would be with them. I also had to get about 8 diff re-moulds over the 2 years and attachments added etc. Every case is different however.

          OP I would highly advise against clear aligner technology for a child…

          I hope you can find something close and reasonable. Is there a dental hospital in your state?

        • how many aligners did you receive on this program? Do you get rescanned at the end of the aligners and see if you need any more?

          • @beanos: My programme is for 8 months, got 16 sets of aligners and 2 sets of retainers. If additional retainers are needed they told me I can buy them.
            Need to send them pics every few months and they reply back with feedback.

    • Why is it so expensive is it to provide the $500K salary?

  • 2 orthadontists in your state, do you in the vaitcan city or something.

    why not get private health and wait a year or so, whatever you need to, unsure if this works but why not try

    • The NT only has 2 orthodontists.

      • Mental

        To be pedantic this is not a state, but sure this isn’t helping your plight,

        Good luck, ur ex sucks, if it makes you feel better

        How bad are the teeth

        • Our son has an overcrowding problem. One tooth needs to be extracted as well.

          • @AussieDolphin: To give you an idea, I had an overcrowding problem that required four teeth to be extracted, before braces. $7K+ sounds excessive especially with the newer options available now that some have mentioned.

          • @AussieDolphin: With three kids, its waaay too late to stop overcrowding. Should have pulled out years ago.

          • @AussieDolphin: Careful with getting teeth pulled out due to overcrowding.
            My niece got some of hers pulled out and it turned out to be too many which resulted in her needing braces to fix the problem (which of course had to be paid for)

            So get a second opinion at least on pulling teeth out and how many.

          • @AussieDolphin:

            One tooth needs to be extracted as well.

            If they're wanting to extract teeth, it means they're a quack. You should do some research on Orthotropics and try to avoid butchering your son's face.

            • @iseeyou1312: This is technically not true as each case is different. There are quack dentists and orthodontists out there, but unfortunately in some cases extractions are still necessary. Many orthodontists these days actually prefer not to extract, but it's sometimes the only option (case dependent).
              As for orthotropics, it is a combination of jaw exercises and dental appliance. You can perhaps create some space, but not always. Unfortunately though, since there aren't many Orthotropics practitioners, those that offer them actually charge top dollars (at least those in North Western suburbs of Melbourne). You would find that their overall cost is roughly the same as an orthodontist, albeit with no guarantee of a result when the case is a severe crowding.
              There are also other dentists who highly recommend the use alternative appliances like myobrace or good old expanders, but I would stress again that each case is different even if the dentist stress that their proposed treatment plan is the best and will work (they arent magicians, but they aren't god).
              Unfortunately OP is limited to choice of orthodontists in NT but I would probably shop around and look for different opinions first (dentists and/or orthodontists) and choose the one that you are most comfortable with (dental services are not always ozbargainable).
              My 9yo daughter has severe crowding which was diagnosed very early, but i still went to about 6 orthodontists and 5 dentists for checks and another opinion in Australia and overseas.
              From my experience in Melbourne, dentists always charge less for ortho but you have to be careful of the snake oil dentists as some of them actually have their own preference in treatment (and may not offer you all the options) whereas orthodontists cost more but are normally more knowledgeable overall as it is their specialty.

              • @aussie bargain: Yep my daughter also has severe crowding. This was caught early and we went to 3 orthodontists for opinions on it.

                Shes had 4 teeth pulled, 2 adult 2 milk. 2 of her adult teeth sinply had nowhere to go and were actually sitting more horizontal than vertical in her jaw. They just couldnt get out and they were starting to head towards the front edge of the gums.

                The pulling allowed these two teeth to come through reasonably straight. Now wr are just waiting for her last adult tooth to jam its way down. Then the real pain begins, my poor wallet.

                • @stumo: Pretty standard.
                  She's lucky that she only had 2 adult teeth pulled.. that should be the first adult premolar (number 4). My daughter will likely need to have all 4 adult premolars out (one on each quadrant) so getting her ready for that. How did you get urs ready?

                  If she had it done early (many dentists refuse to pull even baby teeth out and just advise you to leave them crowded and deal with it later), there's actually a chance that she doesn't have to wear braces for that long (which should bring the cost down).

                  • @aussie bargain:

                    How did you get urs ready?

                    She was pretty good about it. I told her the tooth fairy pays double for a pulled tooth like that. She knew it was happening for braces so she was motivated by that.

                    If she had it done early (many dentists refuse to pull even baby teeth out and just advise…

                    It was actually our dentist who first referred us to an orthodontist due to noticing the crowding. So when we came back with a list from said orthodontist of teeth to be pulled she didnt put up a fight.

                    • @stumo: How old was ur daughter when she had the adult teeth pulled? Or were the baby and adult teeth done at roughly the same time?

                      It was a huge effort getting my daughter to get her baby canines pulled when she was 5/6 (had to be done earlier to avoid future complex work). She froze and cried on the chair on 3 different ocassions with 3 different dentists before we managed (after a bit of forcing and creative bribe).

                      This time around, I have upped the ante on the bribe a little bit and she is much older, but she might chicken out yet again lol.

                      • @aussie bargain: She was around 10 when the pulling started. Spread over a year, one per visit.

                        She did have a baby tooth pulled at around 5yo, it was written off by a bad cavity. She was ok with it then, minor tears.

                        Tell her to harden up. Its not like the old days. I had a full baby front tooth pulled as a kid. Dentist just yanked it out no anasthetic.

                        • @stumo: Thank you for sharing.
                          Yeah I keep telling her to harden up but kids have different personalities.

                          My mom (a dentist overseas) came to the conclusion that my daughter is probably one of those kids who just can't stand a bit of pain and is just scared in general. Apparently (acccording to her experience), there are just different kids, some easy, some hard and some can handle pain more than others.

                          Recently, my daughter ended up arguing on a video call with my mom (who successfully did her extraction) whether the anaesthetic needle going into the gum was painful or not.
                          😃

                          • @aussie bargain: Yep I know what its like, one of my sons is like that. He cracked his head open at 5yo and had to have 9 stitches just above his eye.

                            He wouldn't let the doctors and nurses near him to stitch it back up. They tried absolutely everything. In the end they had to put him to sleep with a shot of special K to get it done. Even giving him the shot they had 4 poeple pinning him down it. It was ridiculous.

                            Then 2 weeks later same performance trying to get the stitches removed. He just wouldn't let them near him. Eventually he fell asleep in the ED waiting room after being there most of the day. The doctor came and took them out while he slept lol.

                            He still wont let any doctor near him at 10.

            • @iseeyou1312: will mewing help with my overcrowding too, just one tooth sticking in

        • You know nothing about her ex. It's quite likely he does suck, but it isn't a given. Why take a dump on someone whose circumstances you know almost nothing about. People can have children then become unable rather than unwilling to support them.

          • @syousef: Yep. As the OP indicates, this is a very expensive piece of work that needs doing. The OP can't afford it, so it's pretty harsh to have a crack at the ex for also being unable to afford it. Even splitting the cost down the middle it's still a pretty hefty pile of cash, especially with the current state of the economy.

            As you say, ex may well suck anyway, but not being able to conjure up $7400 (or even $3700) is not grounds to automatically conclude suckage.

            • @AngusD: We now know he's paying $65/month in total child support for 3 children and this figure is actually the correct amount. I don't think he's a high roller.

              •  

                @syousef: We also know that he earns over a 100k, that the marriage broke down because of his cheating and that he refused to attend any of his kid's appointments to the dentist despite Op inviting him to come along and have a say in the decisions regarding his child's teeth.

                • @DisabledUser102420: You have only one side of the story regarding the cheating, and perhaps he doesn't see the value in the dental work. I certainly haven't seen his salary so again, 1 side of the story. He has had no opportunity to defend himself. And you're willing to judge him as a deadbeat. Gee I wonder why so many men commit suicide. Better have another RU Ok day so we can all pat each other on the back.

                  This guy MAY be a loser. But you don't know that. He has 50% care of his children, so that doesn't sound like a parent shirking his responsibilities to me. But I really don't know.

                  • -2 votes

                    @syousef: Has someone close to you committed suicide? (serious question) This is the 3rd time you've linked an unrelated topic to mental health and suicide. I thought the first 2 times were odd, which is why I now recognise your username.

                    • @DisabledUser102420: I'm not going to answer that question. It's irrelevant. The stats speak for themselves.

                      I find two things insane here and hypocrtical:
                      1. Initiatives like RU OK day are in sharp contrast to behaviour I observe daily. This thread is a classic example.
                      2. The "social justice warrior" phenomenon where people who supposedly stand up for the oppressed are actually oppressing other groups and lumping the good in with the bad from that group. People who behave this way are part of the problem. They are feeding the division and hate.

                      For number 2 take a look at this thread. No one is suggesting OP is a terrible human being for not being able to afford braces for her child. But the father is being vilified without his knowledge let alone right to reply. Gender equality does not mean male bashing.

                      Take a look at the one incoherent guy who talks about his friend being saddled with what he considers to be an unfair child support bill. Well his disrespectful language towards women ("bitch") is met with equally disrespectful language ("incel"). The gender wars and childish name calling help no one. Certainly not the kids. It's disgraceful. People need to grow up and quit with the tribalism. When along gender lines it really is the children that suffer.

                      • +2 votes

                        @syousef: Broadly speaking, I agree with what you have said. I would just like to bring a few things to your attention:

                        incoherent guy

                        Nikey is from a non-English speaking background and uses the language he hears around him to try to fit in. He also comments from time to time to feel part of this community and, more often than not, gets made fun of because of his grammar and vocabulary.
                        Nikey has also has been finding it hard to cope lately and shared his mental struggles with the community in this post.

                        No one is suggesting OP is a terrible human being

                        Actually, a few have :

                        • Here for having children when she can't pay for their braces
                        • Here for expecting the father to pay when he wasn't included in the decision-making process, which is false. He chose not to have anything to do with it.
                        • Here where someone incorrectly assumes that the father has already paid and Op has used the money for something else
                        • Here for having to share the blame for the divorce
                        • Here where someone assumes that she is asking her ex to pay for dental work for a child that is not his…etc

                        We also know more about Op than what has been mentioned in this post. She has been sharing her struggles with this community for years. She spoke about her divorce when she was in the midst of it and trying to cope as a full-time single mother of 3 kids, one of whom has special needs (the father originally only had them 1 weekend every month after he left and moved in with his girlfriend) . Up until fairly recently , Op was also a full-time student and is now working as a new graduate.She does not have family in Australia and often turns to ozbargain for advice and support.

                        Now, if you're genuinely interested in being an advocate for those suffering from mental illness and depression, here's a few things you should consider taking on board :
                        1. getting off your high horse
                        2. being less judgemental
                        3. becoming a better listener - listen carefully to what they are saying instead of jumping to conclusions or trying to second guess the situation.
                        4. Stop trying to shut people down for voicing their opinions or experiences.
                        5. acknowledge their feelings of frustrations and/anger.
                        6. be kinder

                        • @DisabledUser102420: You dug to find 5 examples of people criticizing the OP, and at least one of them is weak. How many examples can you find of people criticizing the OP's ex? Biased much? And you haven't addressed the primary issue here, which is that the OP's ex probably doesn't know about this thread and hasn't had an opportunity to defend himself.

                          How can you talk about being "an advocate for those suffering from mental illness" in the same breath as telling someone to get off their high horse? And then you go on about becoming a better listener? Is it being "kinder" to tell someone to get off their high horse? Are you COMPLETELY irony and hypocrisy impaired? You seriously need to take some of your own advice because all I am seeing you do is deflect and deny. Are YOU being less judgemental? Then what leg do you have to stand on to get on YOUR high horse and tell me to be? You've taken a lot of time to know a lot about various people on the thread but at the end of the day you are advocating bashing OP's ex without having gotten his side of the story. Your post could easily be used as a case study in a sociology class on how to be a hypocrite. Try being honest with yourself for a change. The only people who you'll be able to bamboozle with arguments that contradict themselves like this are simpletons.

                          •  

                            @syousef:

                            You dug to find 5 examples of people criticizing the OP

                            I didn't dig anything. It was all there in plain sight . You have blinders on and only saw what you wanted to see.

                            you talk about being "an advocate for those suffering from mental illness"

                            That's the thing though: I never claimed to be an "advocate for those suffering from mental illness". You did, or at least inferred that you did, and felt the need to moralise the rest of us. I'm also not attacking you , when you've attacked me and have resorted to name-calling, rather I'm trying to point out that if you're going to be preaching to us , you need to hold yourself to higher standards.

                            • @DisabledUser102420:

                              I didn't dig anything. It was all there in plain sight . You have blinders on and only saw what you wanted to see.

                              Nonsense. You cherry picked. You dug. You selected the examples that supported your case even though there were plenty more examples that didn't.

                              inferred that you did,

                              Yes YOU inferred. My rant as against social justice hypocrisy (that you then nicely demonstrated). You just focused on the mental illness part to use in your attack because it suited you.

                              felt the need to moralise the rest of us.

                              So let me get this straight. You took such offence at my moralizing, that you felt the need to moralize? Are you listening to yourself?

                              Not attacking you

                              Thanks for the laugh. Is that why you asked your question about whether someone close to me had taken their own life? Gimme a break.

                              rather trying to point out that if your're going to be preaching to us

                              Again let me get this straight. You found what I said preachy and because you hate that you decided to give me a point by point critique on how I should behave. i.e. preach.

                              then you need to hold yourself to higher standards.

                              And your argument is you don't when criticizing me because what? By your own argument, either you're on your high horse and also need to be held to higher standards when preaching, or I should ignore you because you won't be held to those standards.

                              Take some responsibility for what you said and why it didn't make sense. Be honest that it was a preachy attack about because that's in plain site too.

                              •  

                                @syousef:

                                You selected the examples that supported your case even though there were plenty more examples that didn't.

                                You claimed that no one had criticised Op and I linked to not 1 , but 5(!) instances where they did. So you were wrong.

                                Yes YOU inferred

                                I've inferred based on the 3 other times, that I'm aware of, where you've tried to shut down others for voicing their opinions and then going off on a rant about mental illness and suicide.

                                You took such offence at my moralizing, that you felt the need to moralize?

                                I thought I should point out that people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

                                why you asked your question about whether someone close to me had taken their own life?

                                I asked because I was genuinely concerned about you. People who talk about suicide as often as you do are more likely to take their own life.

                                You found what I said preachy and because you hate that you decided to give me a point by point critique on how I should behave

                                I was pointing out your hypocrisy. I couldn't be bothered the last 2 times I read one of your preachy comments and, in retrospect, shouldn't have bothered today either. Much easier to just block you.

                                when criticizing me

                                I wasn't critising you; I was giving you feedback.I apologise for doing so since it's none of my business. I am now blocking you so that our paths doesn't have to cross again and if they do, I can be blissfully unaware of it.

                                • @DisabledUser102420:

                                  You claimed that no one had criticised Op and I linked to not 1 , but 5(!) instances where they did. So you were wrong.

                                  You were correct in the literal sense but you completely misrepresented the tone of this entire discussion.

                                  I've inferred based on the 3 other times, that I'm aware of, where you've tried to shut down others for voicing their opinions

                                  You need to learn the difference between criticizing an opinion and attempting to shut it down.

                                  and then going off on a rant about mental illness and suicide.

                                  Mentioning suicide is the same as "ranting" about it now. Nice hyperbole.

                                  thought I should point out that people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

                                  Oh so now you did it all as a demonstration. Nice one. Do you happen to have a bridge to sell me?

                                  I asked because I was genuinely concerned about you.

                                  You were so concerned about me that you've called it a rant. You utter, UTTER hypocrite.

                                  People who talk about suicide as often as you do are more likely to take their own life.

                                  Sorry to disappoint you but I have children to live for, among other things, so I'm not going anywhere.

                                  I was pointing out your hypocrisy

                                  …By being a hypocrite? Righhhhht.

                                  Again. You're not being honest. Not with yourself. Not with me. And not with anyone you wish to read this and take you seriously.

                                  I couldn't be bothered the last 2 times I read one of your preachy comments and, in retrospect, shouldn't have bothered today either.

                                  Now we agree on something!

                                  Much easier to just block you.

                                  Be my guest.

                                  I wasn't critising you; I was giving you feedback.I apologise for doing so since it's none of my business.

                                  I suppose "rant" and "preachy" are compliments where you come from?

                                  I am now blocking you so that our paths doesn't have to cross again and if they do, I can be blissfully unaware of it.

                                  Fantastic. I won't have to put up with such insincerity again.

  • No reduction.
    $12k all up.

  • +35 votes

    You get back virtually nothing on private health anyway

    • Yeah. For one of the kids I got $2k back on $9k from private insurance. But they did a payment plan over 2 years.

    • Yep i looked into PHI for my daughter since we knew she needed them in 2 years time. The amounts they paid out were a joke. And so many exclusions.

      Our orthodontist charges 6.5k for the works, on a monthly payment plan. But im in VIC and have more than 2 practices lol. Probably 4 I know of within a 10 minute walk.

    • Paid about $6.5k for my daughter's braces over a couple of years. Health cover paid maybe $3k of that.

      Best bit was while the braces were in she had to go for check ups once a month. Maybe 2 mins each time where the dentist would make small adjustments, $150 a pop. Ridiculous.

      • Yeah we were warned that some orthos quote a lower upfront cost but bury the visit costs being extra in the contract. Repairs charges is another thing to look out for.

        The deal we got was quarterly payment and iy included checkup visits/repairs.

      • I had braces but it was an all exclusive cost and all adjustments etc were included. Payment plan included with zero interest. Still wasn't cheap somewhere in 6-8k range from memory

    • Exactly. Most PHI payments are subsidised by around 90% by the government. Because the government doesn't cover dental, the PHI has to pay fully out of pocket, so very little is paid out.

    • I think our private health cover gave us back 2100 from a total of 8k.

      However our orthodontist didn't charge anything at all after or even before. This "before" being the 2 consults we had discussing the possibility of needing braces and then the timing of it, because he felt starting too early would have just been a waste of effort and resources.

      So yes, we've had many many visits over the years, with adjustments, check-ups, retainers, emergency reattachments, etc., and have not had to pay an extra cent.

      Also, in our case, he asked for 2500 for the initial payment then everything else was divided into quarters of the year over 18 months.

  • +26 votes

    I have two orthodontist friends in the NT. I doubt I know 100% of orthodontists in NT.

    The cost isn't outrageous. They do quite a fair bit and they see you quite a number of times over two or more years.

    A burst drain pipe in the backyard could easily set you back far more than that so just a bit of perspective on the costs.

    I would be very surprised if the entire $7,400 needs to be paid in full at commencement. From memory, I paid half at commencement and the other half midway through.

    • Denticare is very popular and many orthodontists use it. Payments are broken up over a period of 18 to 24 months.

    • Yeah you don't pay it all at once. Big payments are at the start and when the braces come off, with a lot of overpriced very short check ups in between.

    • +3 votes

      I have two orthodontist friends in the NT.

      Funnily enough, I know 2 too: Leedham and Swann. If we both know the same ones , then maybe Op is right.

      • Another from NT and yes, only aware of the two of them!

        Paid mine in installments for about 2 years.

        •  

          And now you have a million dollar smile? 😁

      • Nope. Chisholm who does FIFO and Mark something (something isn't his last name but drawing blanks here) who is there FT but only works PT.

        Turns out we do have an overlap. It is Leedham and I'm sure he just runs the show these days.

        •  

          Mark Leedham?

          Chisholm as in Neena Chisholm? I didn't realise she was an ortho.

          • @DisabledUser102420: Yeah. Neena and omg I have been spelling her name wrong this whole time?

            She is an ortho (or was, I don't know it's been a while) and her hubby is also ortho from memory but orthopaedic.

            • +1 vote

              @tshow:

              Neena and omg I have been spelling her name wrong this whole time?

              Well one of us has and I'm really hoping it's you.

              I thought she was married to this Jacob. I'd hate to think I got her name wrong and assumed she was married to the wrong guy. 🤦

              • @DisabledUser102420: Oh yeah. Gastro. I don't know why I kept thinking dental ortho and medical ortho.

                Don't worry, I am terrible with remembering medico details. Outside of work/conventions and conferences, I avoid shop talk.