COVID19 - Melbourne Protest Should've Been Cancelled Until a Safer Time [Poll]

[Deactivated] on 11/06/2020 - 12:16
Last edited 12/06/2020 - 10:13 by 3 other users

I don't have anything against peoples right to protest. but there is a level of stupidity about protesting in the middle of a pandemic. Considering the whole country has been in a level of lockdown for months and the protesters where urged 'not to protest' if they could keep social distancing, until things got 100% clear the state government needs to be held accountable and the organizers of this protest need to at least given heavy fines.

Coronavirus live updates: Black Lives Matter protester in Victoria tests positive for coronavirus

What are peoples thoughts?

Poll Options

  • 1415
    I agree the protest should have been cancelled till a safer time
  • 199
    I disagree i think the protests timing was no issue
Health & Beauty COVID-19

Comments

  • whooah1979 on 13/06/2020 - 13:22
    +1

    Another weekend and another unlawful protest.

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/06/13/facial-recognitio…
    The Refugee Action Coalition has said it will go head with protests in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne on Saturday despite health warnings and the Supreme Court of NSW ruling the local state rally illegal.

    • ausmechkeyboards on 15/06/2020 - 07:25

      unlawful protest

      That’s edging awfully close to making out with a pair of 5’11s.

  • aboutconfig on 13/06/2020 - 14:07

    News: BeiJing got 2 new cases yesterday, has shutdown all the seafood markets and is investigating the meat markets

  • MessyG on 13/06/2020 - 14:22
    +12

    Argh I'm leftie af but I did not agree with this protest at ALL. There are so many ways you can protest now that can cause real change. Just half a million people all refusing to switch on their TV, or not purchase anything for a week, or convince Midnight Oil to play an online concert and donate for it - there was so many ways you can demonstrate people power now. I get the show of solidarity, I really do, I get how important it is but it is absolutely pointless if people die of a result of this. Even more pointless if vested interests capitalise on it and turn it back on them which is already happening.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/06/2020 - 14:40
      +2

      If both left and right wingers had a level headed approach like this comment the world would be a much fairer and better place

      • MessyG on 13/06/2020 - 14:41
        +1

        Both sides take out their completely unrelated and unrecognised wounds on each other. I think in the future we'll look back on this time as an incredible case study in human psychology.

      • Ghost47 on 14/06/2020 - 14:57

        It's definitely more level headed than your comment on page 1.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 17:24

        Last time I checked your right handed.

    • bluesky on 13/06/2020 - 20:20
      +2

      As someone who barricades at home, and minimising even supermarket runs because some people are laxed about social distancing, when I first heard about the upcoming protests, I felt very uneasy (although I support the cause).

      But when I listened carefully to their motivations (in particular those holding the Melbourne protest), it was clear their decision was not taken lightly, as some would assume. The organisers were also trying hard to mitigate the risks – calling for hand sanitisers and mask use, social distancing, and so forth.

      As the indigenous academic Professor Marcia Langton (68 yo) told ABC Radio: "The risk is great, I don't deny that. I am an at-risk person … I do appeal to everybody to wear masks and social distance at the protest. But at the same time, every time an Aboriginal person goes out on the street, we are at risk."

      I quickly realised that as a "spectator", or someone who has no stake in this for the future of me and my descendants (other than wanting to see a just and equal society for all to live in), it is easy and clear-cut what the right decision is. But what if I have the lived experience of an indigenous person, who faced and continue to face adversity and discrimination daily because I am indigenous? Perhaps I would weigh things differently. From what they say, I also get the feeling that they were fully prepared for fines and sanction but felt it was a price they were willing to pay.

      there was so many ways you can demonstrate people power now.

      Like you, I also thought about this. But the other part of me thinks that those who fought this cause for decades and are still doing so, would have carefully considered, and thought long and hard about what avenues work, and what would not. The mere fact that they still chose protest (yet speaking about the health risks they were taking) meant they do not believe the other avenues will work, or are as effective. Who would choose an avenue that risks their own life or health, if there is an equally effective avenue that does not?

      For the majority (including myself), of course the choice is clear, given the cards we are dealt with and what is at stake. Knowing you are a doctor, in fact, it would be remiss if you do not take this stance. The same goes for the politicians and Chief Medical Officer, and most of society. But for the protestors, it is not as straight-forward.

      The only takeaway is that this is sad. By not having a just society, actions from those that bear the brunt could, and is now spilling over and bringing adverse effects to us all.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 13/06/2020 - 17:30
    +8

    I presume all the non-aboriginal protesters living on aboriginal land are going to lead by example and give back to them right!

    Yeah, nah… They want to protest, but won't actually do anything that disrupts their lifestyle.

    • heal on 14/06/2020 - 00:07
      +5

      They'll take a knee because they have white privilege, but they'll keep their property, shares and job. So it's only a token gesture.

    • MessyG on 14/06/2020 - 08:41
      +1

      There's a lot of suggestions being shared by black people (African Americans and Indigenous alike) of what people can do to help. Things like reading certain books, following people on social media who talk about these issues, buying from black designers, suggestions for recurring donations. None of these things are a particularly big ask, and no one has been asked to give up their lifestyle by these groups. Overwhelmingly they've been asked to listen and write letters to politicians. There's no need to be nihilistic about it, change isn't an all or nothing thing.

      • heal on 14/06/2020 - 12:20

        no one has been asked to give up their lifestyle by these groups

        I realise that; it wouldn't be a good idea for the movement to ask too much of people. But people are being asked to acknowledge their white privilege. Why not go the next step and give up everything you own. It's not good enough just to accept you have white privilege, buying a nice piece of artwork to feel good about yourself does not cut it. You can have a concert and money goes to the black lives matter political movement but that will just fund bigger protests, lobbying, advertising, etc. Meanwhile, black (and white) people are out of work because the store they're employed at has been looted and destroyed.

        I'd much rather see protests about the sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities. I'd like to see an inquiry on weather social services have put more kids at risk of harm by leaving them in a abusive environment out of fear of having another stolen generation. I know that's not a sexy as a Royal Commission into banks, the unions or the detention of children in the NT. Note the latter spent $50 million base on a ABC Four Corners program that falsely claimed children were being tortured. No one was charged out of the banks royal commission either and the union one uncovered some wrong doing but failed to justify the expenditure.

        • MessyG on 14/06/2020 - 17:30
          +2

          No one is being asked to give up everything they own. It's interesting that you mention child sex abuse in the NT (although this appears to be something that comes up frequently in 'defence' against raising awareness for structural racism. And that's a pretty problematic take in of itself. First of all the perpetrators are both indigenous AND non-indigenous, second of all, when you remove a child from it's mother, you're trading one kind of trauma for another. Mostly it's not the mother who is the perpetrator, its members of the community, who, if you remove the child from the family, don't necessarily go anywhere. They remain in the same community. And if you remove them entirely from the community, you're then reliant on the foster system which needs it's own protest about the rates of covered up child sexual abuse.

          But mainly, I find it so interesting that you zero in on such a region-specific issue, that I'm not sure you have much experience with or do much work for, as a reason not to raise awareness about the issues black people face. Childhood trauma is one of the long shadows of the stolen generation - it is called intergenerational trauma because people who were taken from their families, were often sexually abused by their white families, they return to their communities and perpetuated the abuse down through generations. It is going to take years to fix, and using it as an argument against tearing down the structures that caused it in the first place just doesn't make a lot of sense.

          As white people we don't need to do much. We just need to listen to what they're saying, examine those feelings we're having in response and just stop knee-jerk reacting. We just need to listen and stop talking, for just a second. That in itself is a huge step.

          • heal on 15/06/2020 - 13:40

            @MessyG: I first want to say that it was absolutely disgusting what someone posted about Eddie Betts. I'd love to see the poster charged. The Commonwealth Criminal Code Act… I think section 474 would be a good start and perhaps State based legislation.

            No one is being asked to give up everything they own

            That's my point.

            this appears to be something that comes up frequently in 'defence' against raising awareness for structural racism
            But mainly, I find it so interesting that you zero in on such a region-specific issue

            I've worked in Aboriginal communities. I've seen racism from all colours. I explained why I brought up the issue, and because I have worked in Aboriginal communities I would say that is the main issue that Australians should be concerned about. There is a reluctance to remove Aboriginal kids IMO, and there is just so few Aboriginal people who can take care of kids removed. Often it is just removing them from one abusive family to another. The last resort is to place them with non-Aboriginal foster carers. Nothing to do with concerns of sexual abuse but it is best for Aboriginal kids to be fostered with the right Aboriginal family. I read an article the other day from Anthony Dillon, an Indigenous man who also spoke out against the protests and asked "Where is the outrage regarding the high rates of violence and child abuse in Aboriginal communities?" Is it interesting that an Indigenous person would also zero in on the abuse in Aboriginal communities?

            As white people we don't need to do much

            Disagree with that. There's much we can do do.

            just stop knee-jerk reacting

            Great idea. Unfortunately the horse has bolted and there has been a frenzy of hysteria. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

            We just need to listen and stop talking

            I hope we listen to all points of view. There are some great Aboriginal people who don't get invited to speak on ABC and generally aren't covered by the media. When they speak out, they are often subjected to racism. But it seems okay to call an Aboriginal person a coconut (brown on the outside, white in the centre) when they have an opinion that differs from the one they are "supposed" to have.

  • Pratty on 13/06/2020 - 17:52
    +5

    Anyone spend any time at a shopping centre today? Textbook mass gathering. Absolute chaos.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/06/2020 - 03:34
    +16

    It's even stupider when you consider the fact the event they're protesting over happened in the USA

    • Beewee97 on 14/06/2020 - 10:47
      +6

      Preach this, shits me to tears the carry on over here.

      • whooah1979 on 14/06/2020 - 11:02
        +4

        Some Australians love to import crap from overseas. They did the same thing in 2019 when rioters trashed Hong Kong.

    • Twodogs on 14/06/2020 - 14:10

      Exactly its a pity they think all whites are the same and therefore by skin colour were guilty .

      • Meganinja on 14/06/2020 - 14:40
        +1

        Still lucky that looting and rioting not yet imported here.

    • MessyG on 14/06/2020 - 17:31

      …and yet the #maga love here ;)

  • heal on 14/06/2020 - 12:27

    Who wants to be that one person in a crowd that fails to take a knee?

    Anyway I'll go back to reading 'The Crucible'. Wondering if there's any lessons in that book for our progressive society?

  • [Deactivated] on 14/06/2020 - 14:07
    -4

    Those who went ahead to the protest should have their medicare privileges cancelled for at least the next 4 weeks. They can hire a hitman to kill them.

  • striker5950 on 15/06/2020 - 00:50
    +3

    no Problems if they all wear masks, (highly unlikely) but than again have you been to your local shops lately? Nobody is wearing masks or social distancing.. don’t tell me you live in the middle of bumfuk no where and everyone is social distancing in ur country town, EVERY major shopping center I have visited in Sydney is packed like it’s Black Friday and 98 percent aren’t wearing masks and within arms length of each other. So to be completely honest it doesn’t make a damn difference if those protestors go out for 1 day or not, you got worse gatherings At your local shopping center everyday..

  • ausmechkeyboards on 15/06/2020 - 07:22
    +3

    Anglo Australians and Aboriginals have little identity so they enjoy pretending they’re white Americans and black Americans respectively.

    Protests are stupid, sure, but come election time when Australians do stupid crap like banning firearms based on US homicide rates or electing in governments that take US foreign policy stances (and dragging us into international conflict) is when Australian stupidity really starts to shine.

    Ultimately Australians bend our culture to be more like cultures of countries whose cultures the same Australians would like to see change. Which is the height of stupidity.

    • 2ndeffort on 15/06/2020 - 09:12
      +1

      Semi Auto firearms were banned more in reaction to the massacre at Port Arthur in Tasmania by Martin Bryant than they were to anything in the US. I do agree with your basic premise however, we get sucked into popular culture wars.

      • ausmechkeyboards on 15/06/2020 - 18:23
        -1

        Imagine banning cars after a car accident, or banning beaches after a drowning.

        What happened was that it was a highly politicised topic due to homicide rates in the US and Port Arthur was used as an excuse to push the legislation along. Not unlike New Zealand quite recently.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 13:08

    I want more protests every day, I want anti vaxer nightclubs each nite banging.

    What a party.

    • 2ndeffort on 15/06/2020 - 16:48

      With a shirtless Pete Evans raving on tables under a strobing anti covid lamp whilst handing out blue 'activated Almonds'.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 16:58

        I watched that 1 hour and 30 minutes Pete evens, heavily edited by 60 minutes.

        The guy seems really sensible to what the media states.

        He spoke highly of that inspirational speaker Tony Robbins as he's inspiration in like and Deepak.

  • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 14:13
    +1
    Merged from Melbourne Protests Contributed to COVID19 Spread

    Well it is now in the news that the recent BLM protests have been linked to a few clusters in Melbourne. I wonder how the 197 people who voted that the protests were not ill-timed feel about it now.

    Like I said last time, I fully support BLM. Just not the timing of those protests.

    Some argued that "It is more important to get out there and protest than to worry about (Corona virus morbidity and mortality)." If it is proven that this has given a huge boost or butterfly effect to Melbourne's case load, I wonder what they have to say about it. Victoria will likely be heading into stage 4 lockdown soon, with the corresponding economic damage. Unfortunately it has been proven time and time again that the low-socioeconomic demographics take the brunt of this. Namely immigrants, minorities and I am sure, some of those very people these protests are for.

    I honestly hope that in the grand scheme of things, 2 protesters linking with a 242 case cluster is not a huge issue. But I doubt it.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/543969
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/coronavirus-black-live…
    For those who need to get past paywall, courtesy of scrimshaw: https://pastebin.com/KT3KyPF7

    • Okayy on 15/07/2020 - 14:17

      They feel similar to President Grump! FAKE NEWS

      • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 14:27

        I think he was opposed to the protect also.

        • Okayy on 15/07/2020 - 14:30

          yep ONLY black/brown protest.

          • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 14:33

            @Okayy:

            They feel similar to President Grump!

            So the BLM protesters are against black/brown protest?

            • Okayy on 15/07/2020 - 14:43

              @[Deactivated]: What do you mean? Frump labels media FAKE when something doesn't go well for him. btw It was a joke ;) relax.

              • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 15:22

                @Okayy: Super relaxed. Shoulders dropped and all.

    • RM on 15/07/2020 - 14:18

      It goes back to authorities who permit such things to happen doesn't it? Whether it is BLM or Ruby Princess - doesn't matter who started it. The issue is why do they keep allowing these things to happen?

      • Agarwal on 15/07/2020 - 14:38

        It was never allowed.

    • fusion17 on 15/07/2020 - 14:24
      +3

      I don't support BLM, it's more political than anything. I'd support every other single anti-racism action, in particular #saynotoracism.

      In saying that, while the protests surely increased the spread in Melb, the reason there were so many community cases around in the first place was due to the VIC govt incompetence. Protests occurred in other states and they seemed fine.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 14:28
        -1

        I wonder how did Comrade Andrews come to the decision that airline staff were the appropriate choice for quarantine measures and rejected army assistance.

    • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 14:26

      Can't read that linked article, behind the News Ltd paywall

      • scrimshaw on 15/07/2020 - 14:28

        Text only paste
        https://pastebin.com/KT3KyPF7

        Auto Summary provided by a Bot

        Victorian health authorities have confirmed a link between two COVID-19 cases in people who attended the Black Lives Matter protest in Melbourne’s CBD just over a month ago, and the cluster of at least 242 cases in public housing towers in the city’s inner northwest.

        A high proportion of Victoria’s current cases have been genomically linked to that cluster and another at the Stamford Plaza hotel, with Professor Sutton saying earlier this week that he could not rule out all of the current cases being linked to hotel quarantine breaches.

        Four days later, a second protest attendee was confirmed positive, and three days after that, on June 18, a third case, in a protester who had worked at an H&M store at Northland, was revealed.

        By June 22, four days later, a total of four cases had been linked to H&M, including that of a fourth protester and H&M worker who the department said was “not thought to have acquired the infection from the protest” that took place 16 days previously and likely at least 14 days before the person was tested.

        Asked whether there was a link between the “North Melbourne family cluster” and the public housing towers, a DHHS spokesman said: “Cases linked to the North Melbourne towers have links to other cases across Melbourne, including the North Melbourne family outbreak.”

        • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 14:42
          -1

          "…stops short of establishing the protest as a cause of the public housing megacluster…"

          Attending the protest does not appear to have been confirmed as the source; only that two people who have the virus, and potentially spread it to others, did attend the protest.
          If those two people caught it at the protest, wouldn't there be more positive tests from the protesters?

          • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 16:25

            @GG57: Were all protesters tested? Were all cases that might have been there, symptomatic?

            • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:27

              @Tech5: I (obviously) have no idea if all protesters have been tested; do you?

              • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 16:30

                @GG57: Thats the problem, nothing is 100% right now. It could go either way

                • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:32

                  @Tech5: Completely agree, but the DHHS is the only source of truth that I rely on.

    • ozhunter on 15/07/2020 - 14:29
      -1

      I fully support BLM. Just not the timing of those protests.

      Lol, I'm the opposite.

      Cases have gone up, but the numbers is only 4 per million people.

      • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 14:32

        The issue is also overloaded hospitals causing a flow on effect to other people.

        I know this is in the UK but it can happen anywhere with overloaded hospitals: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/ame…

        Man had an ameloblastoma (tumour) in his jaw, and had to delay resection because of the virus.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 14:30

      People protesting arnt from low-socioeconomic demographics

      BLM didnt come to brimbank…
      https://www.news.com.au/news/national/brimbank-shopping-cent…

      • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 14:32

        I didn't say they are

    • one man clan on 15/07/2020 - 14:37
      +1

      Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't this sentence contradict the article?

      "DHHS says it has still not established the source of any of the interlinked clusters, with Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton on the record expressing scepticism that the protesters caught the virus at the rally."

      and

      "He downplayed any role the protest may have had in Victoria’s increasing number of infections.

      “I don‘t think the Black Lives Matter protesters contributed. We’re not seeing people who’ve clearly acquired it there,” he said."

      The headline seems to contradict what the article, and the experts, are saying?

      • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 14:45
        -1

        What!!! How could a News Ltd paper get that so wrong?

    • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:17
      -1

      This is really just an example of mis-reporting, and it is probably intentional.

    • jimbobaus on 15/07/2020 - 16:33
      +1

      Actually nope
      Its now been confirmed that BLM protest is NOT behind the current outbreak.
      Its Typical Murdoch Media Bulltwaddle

      In relation to some newspaper reports of a "link" between the BLM protest and public housing towers, Vic Health says:
      * So far 6 ppl who protested have been infected
      * There is no evidence any of them acquired it at the protest
      * None live in a major public housing complex

  • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 14:41

    Wasn't rocket science to figure out it's where it all started to go south again.

    • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:40

      But that is incorrect

      • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2020 - 17:12
        -1

        don't think so

  • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:15

    Rather than the News Ltd "news", I just saw this from the Vic DHHS press release:

    "So far 6 ppl who protested have been infected…There is no evidence any of them acquired it at the protest…None live in a major public housing complex"

    Back to square 1 people

    • Tech5 on 15/07/2020 - 16:25

      As I said, I hope that in the grand scheme of things, it has no affect on case load. But what if some of those who were infected, were infectious at the time of attending the protests? The thing about community transmission is a lot of it is hidden. Point A can spread to point D, without being picked up at either point B or C.

      • GG57 on 15/07/2020 - 16:31

        No-one wants this to get any worse than it is.
        But this report by News Ltd is factually incorrect in that it mis-quotes (or only part-quotes) the DHHS press release.

        I, and perhaps yourself as well, are relying on information to make our own decisions. I will do that on the basis of information from the DHHS / Vic Govt. only.
        If the DHHS has not been able to find such evidence to date, that probably suggests it isn't there?

        • ozhunter on 15/07/2020 - 21:29

          https://imgur.com/JWnjqRl

          real? fake? who knows

          • GG57 on 16/07/2020 - 09:42

            @ozhunter: My point stands; why would someone rely on a 'news' report when the DHHS press release is easily available, and obviously more reliable than just selected extracts.

  • GG57 on 16/07/2020 - 12:10

    I didn't realise earlier, but News Ltd issued a public apology yesterday (Wednesday)

    Earlier today a number of News Ltd mastheads incorrectly reported that Victorian health authorities had confirmed a link between the Melbourne COVID-19 outbreak and the Black Lives Matter protest. This was incorrect and we are investigating the editorial process leading to the publishing of this story. We unreservedly apologise

    Maybe it is time to close this forum discussion as no longer relevant.

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