Attempted Overtake, Decided Not to, Handed $530 Fine

Hi all, thanks for everybody's input. I realise that I demonstrated poor judgement and I will learn from that.

However since uploading the footage, many people are comparing the complex thought processes and various other external factors involved in this situation in real life and are diminishing it a simple 2D video on youtube that you are free to pause and press your face up against. I appreciate everybody who offered sound reasoning for their comments (whether for my side or against) rather than just saying how idiotic I was.

I have not decided yet whether I will contest it in court. I have some time to think about it.

I just want to say I know how posts here about speeding fines and not stopping at stop signs etc.. are blasted by this community and the OP is told to just cop the fine and pay up as they were in the wrong.

I'm not here for that, I just want to share my experience today and ask if I was actually in the wrong. If I am, I have no problem accepting the fine but if I am not, whether I should appeal in court and how successful these appeals usually are. Thanks everybody

I am travelling on a two lane highway in regional QLD. There is a large SUV in front of me (think Prado size but I don't remember the exact make and model) let's call it car A.

Car A is travelling around 90kmh in the 100kmh zone. I had just passed a dedicated overtaking zone where I had only managed to catch up to car A and I know it's at least another 5km or so until the next overtaking zone. Dotted centre line comes up. I can't see past car A due to it's wide body so I do a little peeking manoeuvre. I see no oncoming cars. I pull into the oncoming lane and immediately start to accelerate as one does when overtaking. I now see an oncoming car in the distance. I then notice that car A begins to accelerate too (which to my knowledge is illegal, but please correct me if I am wrong). I remain in the oncoming lane for a split second as my brain gauges whether I am able to overtake car A or not. I decide not to, brake and pull back in behind car A.

Now, turns out the oncoming car is highway patrol. They flash their lights, do a u-turn and pull me over. I am civil and respectful. I mention that I did not see the oncoming car before I tried to overtake car A but I don't mention that car A accelerated when I tried to overtake as I know that arguing with a cop usually doesn't work out in one's favour. They hand me a fine for "driving without due care and attention". 3 demerits and $530 fine, saying that what I did was dangerous behaviour and is the main reason there are high speed crashes on the highways. I say OK officer, have a nice day.

Did I commit any offence here? Again, please don't insult me or blast me for being some sort of hoon. I'm not. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Edit: To anybody who has appealed traffic offences similar to this, where you are able to justify your actions: were you successful? And was it worth all the hassle and stress or did you look back and think you should have just accepted the fine and the increased insurance premiums?

EDIT: I've got access to my dashcam footage and I've uploaded it to youtube.

Combined Forum Post (from Node 558123)

Merged from Attempted Overtake, Decided Not to, Handed $530 Fine PART 2 NOW WITH FOOTAGE

closed Comments


      20 seconds to be precise, no?

  • +2 votes

    Cop handed you the EXACT fine for 'undue care and attention' because you said these exact words: "I mention that I did not see the oncoming car before I tried to overtake car A"

    Which isn't what happened in reality. Really, you began a safe overtake, and then aborted when conditions changed (i.e. the car APPEARED due to normal circumstances).

    This is why it's very important to be careful what you say to police if they are looking to pin something on you.


      I don't think there will be any wriggling out of this one.

      It's not a safe overtake if you can't see enough clear road ahead to complete the maneuver safely.

      As soon as you're thinking "I'll chance it" that is unsafe.


        What actually happened:
        1. OP peeked and saw clear open road, no oncoming traffic. Plenty of room.
        2. Proceeded to perform a safe and legal overtake
        3. A car appeared, thus the conditions for #1 changed, thus OP performed a legal and safe abort of overtake

        There's nothing illegal here, nor even "poor driving". The only mistaker is the exact words OP said to the popo.

        • +1 vote

          No, cars don't just 'appear'.

          A car coming in the other direction is a predictable and expected event.

          Please be sure you can see enough clear road ahead to complete your entire overtake maneuver before you begin. That is what 'safe' means.


    At first read I thought OP was being treated unfairly, but thinking about it further, if you couldn't see and had to "peek" then yeah mate, you rolled those dice and lost. Be thankful it was a fine and not your life that you paid with, I guess (not to be preachy, I'd probably do the same.)

      • +1 vote

        He decided not to overtake after the car being overtaken sped up


          You're the type of person who would either be dead or become a murderer with an attitude like that on the road.


    Do not contest unless you can prove that you weren't 'driving without due care and attention'.
    A dashcam would go a long way as will any other witnesses that can clearly explain the situation in court.
    The question this will come down to is 'how many seconds away was the oncoming car'? This will determine how safe and attentive you were and justify the fine or not.

    Even a 'peek' needs to be done in a safe manner, where if you can't see the lane ahead, the oncoming traffic for the distances needed safely overtake or peek, then the fine might be well justified.

  • +1 vote

    Imo whether that car sped up or not you're still in the wrong. You saw the car in front yet you still tried to overtake, that a big no and yes that's how accidents happen. What if the car next to you thought you weren't going to slow down and he slowed down for you at the same time you did then you would have been stuck in the wrong lane with an oncoming car.

    Don't think a dashcam would help your case, it would just raise the question that if the dashcam can see the oncoming car, why are you still trying to overtake? 90 in a 100 zone ain't gonna kill anyone. Just be patient next time and wait for the next overtaking lane.

  • +1 vote

    As far as i can tell there's nothing illegal about pulling out to attempt an overtaking maneuver if the circumstances allow it, it's staying out that could endanger the people on the other side of the road.
    If the OP's story is correct and there was clearly time between the oncoming police officer and the OP pulling back in there's nothing dangerous about it. However if the OP has exaggerated the clearance times he/she may have some explaining to do. Without a dash cam i guess we'll never know.


      We will probably never find out now. It's clear this is a new account someone has created just for the purpose of asking this question because he/she was fearful of getting blasted as these traffic infringement threads normally do.

      Unless proven otherwise, I strongly doubt the police would have done a U-turn to pull the OP over if the OP pulled out when they were miles away. Judging by how the OP has gone silent, it makes it seem even more likely.


        Shorter bow required for a more accurate observation

    • +2 votes

      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a chainsaw… is a good guy with a chainsaw…

      • -1 vote

        YES SIR!

        Only god can judge who is good or bad.

  • +2 votes

    Maybe next time don’t try to overtake at 100/110 kmh with only 200m between you and the oncoming car. Just sayin’

  • +2 votes

    I know it's at least another 5km or so until the next overtaking zone

    Impatience will get you nowhere fast


      Death maybe?


      Final destination

  • +2 votes

    You shouldn't overtake with limited visibility. The oncoming car can't materialise out of no where. Also with an overtaking lane coming up in 5km its probably a wee bit aggressive not to simply wait 5 minutes for the overtaking lane.

    Although I appreciate the frustration when slow cars that speed up when attempting the overtaking manoeuvre. The amount of times I am stuck behind a slow moving line of traffic and as soon as the overtaking lane appears it feels like we are in the rolling start grid in Daytona.

  • -3 votes

    That is ridiculous… No harm no foul.

    People are so quick to jump on the 'wow bad driving is bad' badwagon and allow police to hand out absurdly large $ fines no matter what the case. Sucks, I would fight it if I were you. The fact you decided to pull back into the lane is pure evidence that you were driving with due care and attention, had you not, you would have plowed into the patrol car. They must have been feeling particularily arseholey that day.


      A near miss still counts as an incident in my books.

      A mistake was made and maybe the cops should have been more lenient but if you attempt an overtake that you potentially can't make that manoeuvre has come about fairly aggressively. Defensive driving techniques would sensibly tell you to wait for the overtaking lane.


        A near miss still counts as an incident in my books.

        A near miss is actually an incident in anyone's books - as in, the cars nearly missed the accident, but eventually ended up colliding anyway. This would likely involve the SES and an ambo.

        A near collision on the other hand is one that people walk out of alive, but should be counted as an incident. Just saying. :-)


          Or you could interpret 'near miss' as near as in close so a close miss instead of near[ly a] miss.

  • +1 vote

    Sounds like you were speeding when you were considering overtaking.


    What the hell, 88+ comments and no one has asked for a crappy MS paint diagram yet? I'm very disappointed Ozb… very disappointed. :P


    It all depends on the distance between you and the oncoming cop car. If it was way off on the horizon and only became visible after you had began pulling out, then yeah, it's pretty harsh. If the cop was anything less than 10 seconds away (maybe more), I'd say that's worthy of a fine.

    It is a lot of money, but the consequences of a careless overtake in an oncoming lane are (best case) a car usually running off the road, or (worst case) a combined >200 km/h head on collision, possibly also taking out the car you're trying to overtake. IMO it's one of the most dangerous things drivers are permitted to do on the road, and it staggers me how many people take the "she'll be right approach" to save a few mins (not necessarily talking about you OP, just in general). In your case, you at least had the sense to pull back, which a lot of people seem incapable of. But what if the cop car had been just a few seconds closer? Would you have had time to make that decision? Maybe, but I guess my point is that it's the sort of action that you need to be 100% sure about before starting it, and I'm ok with people being fined when they clearly don't have that certainty.

    Something that I try to keep in mind: I'd remember that fine years from now, I'd be constantly reminded of a crash for the rest of my life (if I lived), but I'll probably never stop and think of the 5 mins I saved from a risky overtake on a driver going a bit slow. Sit back and chill for a few minutes.


    Yeah what you did was dangerous and you did commit an offence. So cop the fine and drive safely next time.


    Police revenue would down millions in the last 4 months.
    Huge reduction in traffic = less fines.

    If you are in anyway near breaking the law, it shouldn't be a suprise you will get a fine.

    Think your Unlucky, but good luck fighting it ,as unlikely you be able prove you were safe, unless you have dashcam maybe


      Well, except drug driving, they don't want to go near your mouth at the moment, so take that as you will.


    Based purely off your commentary it seems you performed due care while being attentive. You followed the signage and did various reasonable checks before you attempted your manoeuvre.

    You could pen a letter to the issuing police station asking for a review and notifying them that you will be sending a copy in a separate letter to the Minister for Police and the Minister for Transport and Main Roads. Like really, what are you other choices - continue driving, break the speed limit and hit the oncoming car? A reasonable person would have likely done the same as you, anyone who follows behind you before the road is clear is a dangerous driver.

    Best wishes.

  • +1 vote

    We need to make a rule that every road related post must be accompanied by dash cam footage.

  • -3 votes

    Sad you have to cop a fine
    True that Cops analysis of the situation can be different to that of ours

    From the info you have provided it seems like your intent was to overtake but from cops perspective you are deemed unsafe

    Glad you are still alive and fine

    True that it’s no point in arguing with cops

    You can appeal and see if the infringement officer can let go your fine and points

    If it was me I would appeal and pay the fine unless you are lawyer yourself to challenge

    Time is money

    We all wish to be alive but those spilt second decisions Can puts us in difficult situation Or risk

    Don’t worry
    Take it as lesson learnt and move on

    Drive safe


    You overtook another car just prior to overtaking the prado correct? :)


    Based on your description i’d say go for an appeal. It’s worth a shot given the circumstances.
    Good luck

  • +3 votes

    Your mistake was letting Hwy Patrol pull you over. As soon as they flashed their lights at you, that's when you should have floored it. Cops had to do a U-ey and at 100km, you would have gotten a massive head start. Red line until you get safely clear and then back streets all the way home.


    Based off your version of events, I'd contest it, especially if my driving record was clean for the last 3+ years.

  • +2 votes

    Dashcam footage has been uploaded. Link in the post description. Have at it ladies and gentleman

    • +2 votes

      While I wouldn't call you a terrible driver, that does look like a dangerous manoeuvre to me. The police car was going past you in less than 3 seconds and looks like it was rapidly slowing down. They clearly thought they had a decent chance of hitting you considering they'd pulled over into the hard shoulder.

      I'm no expert on road laws though, so whether it meets the threshold for driving without due care and attention I can't say.


      Credit for posting the video up. Don’t think that footage helps your case though.


      Let's assume the Pajero was still doing 10km/hr under the speed limit, the manoeuvre would still be dangerous if you kept to speed limit to overtake the Pajero with the police car closing in from the opposite direction.

      Next time, make a better judgment.

      At least there was no accident in the end.


      0:17 that's very dangerous

    Merged from Attempted Overtake, Decided Not to, Handed $530 Fine PART 2 NOW WITH FOOTAGE

    Not sure if this counts as a duplicate post or not. If it is, please let me know and I'll delete it. I've put the link in the original post anyway. Cheers

    Again, if I'm in the wrong here I'll learn from my mistake and happily accept the fine.

    Please note that:
    1. I am driving directly into the sun.
    2. The police car is not visible before I pull into the oncoming lane so it appeared that the lane was clear after I let the initial car pass.
    3. I am paying attention and when I see the oncoming car and I realise that I cannot make the manoeuvre, I abort.
    4. I am not tailgating.

    • +5 votes

      That's definitely more than a 'peek'. I'd say the fine was justified looking at the footage.

    • +2 votes

      You were way too far back, and poor music choice - why not some slim dusty? This aint no hood.

      • +1 vote

        Music was fine.

    • +2 votes

      Driving into the sun does not mean you are free to do what you please. I believe on the other thread people have said you have to be safe to overtake. If there's sun, then it's not safe at all time.

      Yes the other driver is probably an asshat, but you are also responsible for your own action.

    • +13 votes

      Hmmm your original post seems very sugar coated after viewing your dash cam footage.

    • +1 vote

      I previously said:-

      Do you have dashcam footage? Could help provide some context clarity (although may also work against you).

      I now stand by the latter part. Unfortunately, doesn't seem like a safe manoeuvre in an underpowered vehicle. You may have gotten away with it if you had committed and successfully overtaken though.

    • +8 votes

      The police car is not visible before I pull into the oncoming lane

      What a load of lies…. you can see the police car in the video as soon as you start to cross the line.

      @ 17 secs mark, you are 3/4 in your lane, you can see the cop car in the distance. Yes that part of the road you failed to check is CLEAR before overtaking. You should have went back into your lane, instead you kept going.

      At the end of the day, if the road isn't clear or you can't see because of the 'sun', then you shouldn't be over taking! Simple.

      Sorry OP you screwed up. Pay the fine, move on.

      • -4 votes

        I never said I couldn't see because of the sun. I made that statement because the way the sunlight reflects off the road in the distance obscures the police car. So it appears to me that there is no other oncoming cars.

        Also there is reaction time in real life. You can't just pause the video at 0:17 and say "hey look you can see the police car you should have stopped at that exact instance and pulled back". In the moment once you turn the steering wheel, you commit to moving your car completely into the oncoming lane.

        • +6 votes

          I was watching and I could see the car in the distance without pausing, slowing down or watching a second time.

          Poor judgement. Very poor judgement and unless cops are going to apply penalty to all poor judgement consistently, I don't think you should receive a fine for that. Repeat offence or serial offending is a different matter.

          TLDR - very bad driving but did not put anyone in danger.


            @tshow: Ok I see, thanks for you input mate



            TLDR - very bad driving but did not put anyone in danger.

            Ever had a car do what the OP did to you @ 100kmh? I would disagree about the danger part.


              @JimmyF: Going a 100 isn't an issue. Going 100 while overtaking isn't an issue.

              What OP did was pull out and pull back in with heaps of time to spare and whilst still on the straight section of the road.

              If OP re entered the lane where he did, except the SUV is behind him, he would not have a fine. So the issue isn't really where OP was in relation to the oncoming car. It was in relation to the SUV.

              If OP caused the oncoming traffic to slow or swerve I would be 100% in agreement, however, OP had zero impact to the oncoming traffic.

        • +2 votes

          So it appears to me that there is no other oncoming cars.

          That statement worked against you.
          The oncoming car was still there and you failed to see it because of conditions. Therefore it wasn’t safe.

          "hey look you can see the police car you should have stopped at that exact instance and pulled back".

          Exactly what you should have done: start to pull out, see oncoming car, pull back straight away.
          Not pull out completely into oncoming lane, check traffic then proceed to next step.

        • +1 vote

          I made that statement because the way the sunlight reflects off the road in the distance obscures the police car

          If you can't see, you shouldn't be over taking… Which was my point. Sun or not.

          You can't just pause the video at 0:17 and say "hey look you can see the police car you should have stopped at that exact instance and pulled back"

          I didn't need to pause, first view was, WTF that car is clear as. But yes I went back to get the time stamp for my comment to point out you can see the car from as soon as you started to pull out.

          In the moment once you turn the steering wheel, you commit to moving your car completely into the oncoming lane.

          As someone who overtakes on the highway often, this is more lies. You can 'peak' around the car in front to see if anything is coming before entering the land. Its not all or nothing.

          FYI I would have 'peak' which would have looked like the frame @ 17 secs. Seen the other car coming and went back in again.

          Its why the 'driver' is in the middle of the road, so they can see around cars easier


          I agree with @tshow.

          I think it was poor judgement, but it was performed legally and when you reassessed you aborted. I dont think you should have been fined.

      1. Take to court
      2. ????
      3. Beer
    • +1 vote

      fine justified - never ever do that, legit. common sense not that common.

      • +1 vote

        honestly good thing police car was there.. this type of behaviour is straight up nonsensical - and im a P plater so im meant to be a "hoon" lmao


      I believe the whole issue lies with the Sun , bad choice to overtake into it, white Police car might not have been 100% visible until it was closer, he may have had to back off seeing you…

      That driver needs to have a talking to, how many times do you drive on a 3 lane hwy, your in the middle because the left lane has someone driving slower up ahead.As you pass them low and behold they put there foot down and keep up with you or even drive off faster.
      What’s with that…

      I would say great job assessing the situation and backing off and safely getting back in behind, we all make mistakes no ones perfect mate….

    • +1 vote

      You would have had a better view of the other lane than what is on the dashcam footage so you should've been able to see the cop car by just moving across slightly.

    • +2 votes

      Not gonna lie, the officers car is pretty visible and going 100km/h there would be zero chance to overtake him with the speed limit. IMO i think you're at fault mate.

    • +2 votes

      Justified fine. You can see the police car from the first second until about 13 second in and you commenced the overtake at 16 secs. There was a bend in the road where you could clearly see them. I assume the camera is in the middle of the dash so you would have have even more line of sight on the cop car.
      If it was a dead straight road, maybe. Maybe you would have a defence, but based on this you do not.
      Pretty clearly you wouldn't have been able to complete the manoeuvre

    • +2 votes

      You had just enough space if you weren't so far behind the SUV.

      You could have peeked but you pulled out completely.

      I don't think you did anything dangerous as you clearly had enough time to move back in and visibility wasn't an issue, however, you displayed poor judgement several times in a short span. I still do not believe you deserved a fine if you do not have any prior warnings.


        The poor judgement was in the music choice. I agree the driving’s probably not worth getting a fine for though…OP pulled back in with enough time.

      • +2 votes

        I believe this is one of those fines where the cops see far too much road trauma or near misses brought on by shitty manouvres like this, so it's more of a deterrent or teaching tool, depending on the age of OP (who sounds young-ish).


          Cops are there to enforce the law, not educate.

          If fines are influenced by the experience of the cop, that means the significance of the law is proportional to someone's subjective recollection of events.

          That should not be how the law works. The law needs to be clearly defined and consistent.

          (Food for thought. If cops give out fines based on what they perceive is dangerous then why not fine every driver in an isolated or at fault collision? It would still serve as a deterrent unless the driver is dead.)


            @tshow: I didn't neg you, but just because OP had a close shave, how is that not a dangerous manoeuvre? They attempted that overtake far longer than they should've in a car that was never gonna make it in time.

            • +1 vote

              @spackbace: It wasn't a close shave. It would have been if OP committed to overtake.

              I didn't think you'd neg civil discourse so don't worry. :)

    • +1 vote

      My 2 cents:

      1. Never overtake when you know a bend is coming
      2. direct sun so again no no
        3, You can always peak to see if you can overtake before overtaking

      I think this is unfortunate incident but fine was justified

    • +2 votes

      Holy crap you were never going to make that overtake, and pushed it way too far before realising that you weren't going to make it.

      This could've ended way worse. Good on the cops for fining you and hopefully you think twice about your cars inabilities next time.

      • +1 vote

        Every bit of driving could have ended worse. Someone indicating way too early or too late could also result in collision.

        This is not a technical issue, Ie. if OP was driving in isolation, this could never occur. It was all a matter of timing and it is all subjective. It isn't like OP was veering around, ran a red light, crossed a double line…

        The mistake is with discretion. Poor discretion.

        And if we are in support of cops giving out discretionary fines, we will have more mistakes made out of discretion. Poor discretion.

        (I'm not defending OP. Bad driving is obvious.)


          OP didn't just take a peek, or only put part of their car over the lines, they clearly went for it when they shouldn't have. Neither of us know the car but it sure isn't a V8 and was never gonna make it, not to mention the placement of the dash cam means we see the cop car later than OP should've.

          Don't make excuses for poor driving decisions, you just encourage someone to do it again.

          If OP has a shit box 4 banger, then OP needs to slow down and just drive a safe distance behind the car in front.


            @spackbace: I'm not making excuses for the poor driving. None at all. In fact, I pointed out why OP is a bad driver.

            It is important (to me at least) that there is clear definition to the law and consistent enforcement. Without it, we may apply the law with discretion as intended but it takes a few moments of poor discretion to erode the foundation of it.

            Example, the asshat that filmed dying police officers. He is charged with "indecent or offensive conduct". Obviously I think he is indecent and I wish upon him the full weight of the law but when feelings become part of the judicial system, it jeopardizes the case and tarnishes the system. This fine is the same albeit insignificant end of the scale.

            If experienced and highly esteemed lawyers should not be using fluffy laws, a highway patrol officer definitely should not be given powers of judge, jury and executioner.


      The fine was justified, that was not safe to overtake. The fact you mention you were driving into the sun is not an excuse, it means you should have been extra cautious knowing your visibility was restricted.

    • +1 vote

      Please note that:

      I am driving directly into the sun.

      not an excuse

      The police car is not visible before I pull into the oncoming lane so it appeared that the lane was clear after I let the initial car pass.

      if you couldnt see the car due to the sun, then its not clear

      I am paying attention and when I see the oncoming car and I realise that I cannot make the manoeuvre, I abort.

      you shouldnt need to be entirely in the other lane to work this out though

      I am not tailgating.

      I wouldnt call a ~1sec gap at 100km/h exactly 'not tailgaiting'

      100% justified getting pulled over for that one


      Thanks for sharing OP. Unfortunately no doubt about the fine that’s expected based on the footage. You are driving quite to the left side of your lane - you should drive a little closer to right of your lane when planning an overtake to see if you have enough clear road ahead. Leaving your lane was already a mistake if you had within a second pulled back in you probably wouldn’t have been fined.

      Glare can make visibility an issue - polarised sunnies are a good investment for this kind of driving if you don’t already have.


      Thanks for sharing. I sympathise with you OP. I do believe that the glare may have affected you, even for a split second. It is very easy for someone watching a video in 2 dimension sitting in the comfort of their lounge room say it didn't but when one is behind the wheel, sun glare happens easily. Had that happen to me.

      Back to the 'peek' yes it is more than a peek but there is absolutely nothing in the road rules which says you are not allowed to 'peek'. In NSW for example, the rules are you are allowed to cross broken lines to overtake if it is safe to do so. If you are driving on a long straight stretch of highway road (say the Sturt Highway), theoretically you could take forever overtaking if you want to and still be legal. You could attempt to overtake, give up and tuck in behind the car you were trying to overtake and still be legal.

      To me, there was nothing dangerous about your attempted overtake.

      The police on the other hand see it differently, some are really gung-ho and fine first, question later. Some question first, fine later. I have worked with many over the years and seen mostly good ones, seen the odd crazy one that would likely shoot first and question later.

      My only guess is you encountered one who saw you try to overtake and you only pulled back into lane because it was a cop car - and that to them is you did something wrong.

      Cop it on the chin and pay the fine, I have been there done that years ago.

      In an ideal world - we would also see the police car dash cam and IF they slowed down or not, especially the moment your vehicle entered the opposite lane.


        but when one is behind the wheel, sun glare happens easily. Had that happen to me.

        If you can't see because of sun glare, then you shouldn't be over taking. This fact alone makes it 'dangerous'

        To me, there was nothing dangerous about your attempted overtake.

        Yes there was, OP tried to over take when not clear, not enough room to complete the over take etc.

        we would also see the police car dash cam and IF they slowed down or not,

        They slowed down lots, it can been seen in the OP video, in the ~ 5 seconds from the OH CRAP moment that the OP pulls back in to the police car appearing in the video. In that time the police car had slowed right down and was just about stopped in the emergency lane, ready to do a u turn.


    Alright who wants to race me

  • +1 vote

    No no no OP. You've just crucified yourself with your own video evidence. Piss poor judgement on your part, and I think what's even more incredible is that you believe you were unfairly fined! Take a defensive driving course. You clearly need it. Or maybe the rest of us should - since you're still out there.


    Video is gone and OP is a disabled user… AKA: I didn’t get told what I wanted to hear, so I’m taking my bat and ball and going home…

    seems our job here is done. :D