I Nearly Hit a Car; Need Advice on Right of Way

Hi all,

I'm a first time poster here in OzBargain.

I wasn't sure exactly where I could find the correct answer to my query so I decided to take advice from the community here.

I came across a near hit accident with my car on my way home.

Link to the dashcam video

Link to Google map

I was taking a right from Blaxland road to the Anzac Ave from the location shown in the Google Maps and in the video.

I was under the impression that the blue car would give me the way as it's trying to merge into the main road from the 7-Eleven petrol station.

As I was trying to take right and understand that I need to give way to any oncoming traffic across the opposite side of the road, I couldn't decide now if I was in the wrong (or have been wrong all along in situations like this).

If only, I could get some idea or advice on this, I could avoid such near hit accidents in future.

Edit: Just as @esty highlighted (and to deny that), I'm still here…lol. Thank you all fellow OzBargainers for your advice and opinions. I am highly grateful for them. I just didn't think it was right to reply as it may look as if I'm arguing or trying to deny my mistakes.

Poll Options

  • 395
    Blue Car was Correct.
  • 298
    Blue Car was Wrong.
  • 15
    Nevertheless, I was wrong.

Comments

        • +3

          This. Blue car has left the road related area and is now on the main road, OP is turning across blue cars path. OP must give way.

          No, the definition of road related area includes a shoulder and an area dividing a road such as the chevron marked area the blue car drives across next. Arguably the area is also an extension of the driveway also in how it is linemarked and still not part of the road until they are in the lane of traffic past the edge lines - see comment. They are far from on the main road.

          Regardless I agree with Bjingo above. Both cars were stationary at the same time, the Blue Car should remain so in the driveway/shoulder/footpath until they have given way to the OP and then enter the road - it is not the first one to try jump out first that wins

  • +20

    The real question is… did this happen because of the Shopback breach?

    • No, it was because of coronavirus

  • +9

    Technically the blue car is correct. If you hit them you would be up for the damages to both vehicles.

    The blue car is travelling along the main road (albeit for a very short distance) and as you are the vehicle turning across traffic, you must give way to all oncoming traffic (ie the blue car).

    • we have similar Servo-exit—street at one of mine, but less curved

    • +4

      the blue car goes straight from wheels on the concrete, to back left wheel still on the concrete whilst already strafing into the chevron lined area. OP already started turning before their wheels left the concrete. Blue car is not in any way on the main road. Blue car needs to give way

  • +7

    I use that petrol station, I hate that exit. Esp when a car is turning right from Anzac onto Blaxland.
    Sometimes I exit from petrol station onto Anzac then onto Blaxland.
    Regardless of who's right, just be extra cautious there.

  • +2

    Need Advice on Right of Way

    There is no "right of way" in the Australian Road Rules…

    For the blue car;

    Road Rule 74: Entering a Road From a Road Related Area

    • +3

      Nah. The blue car has technically already entered the roadway and is travelling along it (albeit for a very short period), therefore OP must giveway to oncoming traffic.

    • 74 Giving way when entering a road from a road related area or adjacent land
      (1) A driver entering a road from a road related area, or adjacent land, without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line must give way to—
      (a) any vehicle travelling on the road or turning into the road (except a vehicle turning right into the road from a road related area or adjacent land), and

      • Basically this example

        and

        72 Giving way at an intersection (except a T-intersection or roundabout)

        (5) If the driver is turning right, the driver must give way to
        (a) any vehicle approaching from the right,~~ unless a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line applies to the driver of the approaching vehicle, and~~
        (b) any oncoming vehicle that is going straight ahead or turning left at the intersection, unless—
        (i) a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line applies to the driver of the oncoming vehicle, or
        (ii) the oncoming vehicle is turning left using a slip lane, and
        (c) any pedestrian at or near the intersection who is crossing the road the driver is entering.

  • +9

    Once the blue car is on the road you should give way to it. Even though the blue car is only on the road for 2 metres.

    Even with those turn left at anytime with care turn lanes at lights. If you see lights going straight are green and you're turning left, if a car runs a red and hits you at the turn left at anytime intersection you may be at fault as it's a different section of road.

    • +5

      Once the blue car is on the road you should give way to it.

      Well OP's car was already on the road. Blue should yield

  • +4

    If only, I could get some idea or advice on this, I could avoid such near hit accidents in future.

    Even if you're certain that the other car is wrong, you should still be doing your best to avoid a collision if you can.

  • I don't know

  • +2

    Oh I hate that intersection.

  • +3

    If only, I could get some idea or advice on this, I could avoid such near hit accidents in future.

    I think fanging it would have come into play as well as it's very obvious you're heavy on the pedal. From the dashcam footage it looks like there was zero caution from your side to help the situation. The blue car is right there about to turn and you accelerate pretty hard across the intersection anyway. My advice is to drive according to the situation. There's times to let a bit loose and times there's not. This one was very very easily avoided.

  • +2

    I always wait for cars to reverse out of drive ways whenever I can. This car was clearly about to turn when the car passed and he was almost on the road, you should give him way and treat him as oncoming traffic.

  • +17

    The authority / people who designed the road and allowed that service station to proceed with that exit driveway configuration is in the wrong. That doesn't comply with standards. It's an accident waiting to happen.

    They have created an additional unnecessary conflict point, it is too close to the tangent point of the side road intersection with insufficient access spacing. The exit driveway should force all cars to exit onto the side road first as far from the corner as possible, then turn out from there (or not have been approved at all as it looks as though there is also insufficient depth for this to occur far enough back down the side road too).

    • +2

      The authority / people who designed the road and allowed that service station to proceed with that exit driveway configuration is in the wrong. That doesn't comply with standards. It's an accident waiting to happen.

      Correct. Most service station exists are on the side road.

      • +4

        no they're not

    • +1

      This +1

  • +3

    I'm going to say the Blue car was correct(opinion wise, not law)

    1. Give way to your right (they are technically to your right)
    2. Even though they are turning out of a street, that entry point onto the road is close enough to not leave you a safe gap should the both of you decide to turn like you did.
    3. The blue car would have spent less time or none at all looking left before pulling out (although that's no excuse, these things happen)
    4. As others have said, you have a better overall view of the situation, and thus should have had more information to come to the conclusion that the blue car had a high chance of hitting you given the distance between them pulling out, and your side street you're turning into. You both were looking for the same gap in traffic, and I feel you had more responsibility to ensure the road was clear of both cars already travelling on the road, but also any cars that were about to travel on the road too.

    As for who is at fault if an accident were to take place, I'd suggest it may be split down the middle. both at fault.

  • +1

    Both are a fault here. The blue car hadn't yet entered the intersection. They went straight from the drive way across the give way line. The correct driving is for the blue car to exit the drive way up to the give way line and proceed if nothing is coming. However the blue car drives across unbroken lines and do not actually enter the road until after the intersection.
    If the blue car was correctly on the road then you have a requirement to give way.

  • +1

    The Blue Car in this case was merging onto traffic and it was clear from their right. You were crossing lanes into oncoming traffic to enter a junction yours was the higher risk manoeuvre. Generally in my experience it is the person doing the highest risk manoeuvre that has to go last as it is where the most care has to be taken to avoid accidents. I don't know what level of driving experience you have, but this is a great example of a near miss learning opportunity and you have done the right thing to ask. Keep Safe, Keep learning :)

  • All you need to do is freeze frame with 10 seconds to go and you can see the blue car never actually enters the road until after the intersection it drives across the road markings with an unbroken lines

    • +1

      The blue vehicle driving on the road marking doesn't negate the driver that is turning right at the intersection from having to give way.

      • OP should shave off the first 15 seconds so we could have it on loop :)

  • -1

    Wow, the old RTA at North road is now a medical centre?!

  • +4

    Blue car enters the road and is automatically a car you need to give way to

    The situation is dangerous as illustrated in the dash cam

    You have to be sure of clearance and should be doing all you can to avoid an accident, you need to yield

    The only time you would be in the right was if you were crossing on the other cars side of the road and he pulled out into you at speed. Obviously the other driver needs to not drive into cars.

  • +2

    I was in a similar situation to the blue car a few months ago, but stopped in time. For any drivers in western Adelaide here, I was leaving the Romeo's Foodland at Lockleys onto Henley Beach Road, turning left and heading west. A car was turning from the northern side of HBR into the car park of the Lockleys Arms Hotel. I was focused on traffic heading west on HBR. IMHO, I was in the wrong. It's a very dangerous situation.

    • You were, so was the blue car who also had give way signs. The poll count for this topic is worrying though..

  • Blue Car should have given way to you and allowed you to make the turn before entering the roadway.

  • -1

    You must give way to all traffic…..

    If unsure, you need to re-do your driving licence.

    Notify the police that you are unsure upon road rules, and would like to hand your licence in.

  • +2

    BTW - when you made the left turn at beginning of video you should be in left lane
    .

    • -1

      I agree. Although not absolutely required by the rules (as I understand them) when one lane is turning, lane swinging is a bad habit and leads to disaster when more than one lane is turning. Turn into your own lane and then indicate and change lanes safely if you need to move out. Lane swinging also chokes traffic flow - right turners into a dual lane road often swing into the left lane, blocking left turners entering via an island into the same road. If everyone stuck to their own lane on turning, traffic would move more freely.

      • +1

        Lane swinging also kills cyclists and motorcyclists. There's no need unless you are in a large truck or think you are on a racing track trying to take the racing line

    • +4

      There is only one turning lane, therefore he can turn onto either lane. Since he is turning right shortly ahead, it makes sense to turn onto the right hand lane. That would be my understanding.

    • +1

      New ozbargain thread idea - critique my driving

  • +9

    Since the Blue Car was entering the road, they must give way to all traffic on the road that they are entering. Right turning cars must also give way in a similar fashion.

    However, OP was not “on the road” yet, as they were still waiting for the opportunity to turn. So we have a situation where, whilst waiting, neither car met the criteria of being “on the road” such that the other car would need to give way to them.

    However, the Blue Car had the opportunity to enter the road first, simply due to the fact that the last remaining car that was “on the road” passed the Blue Car before it passed the OP. As such, the Blue Car had a moment where it could legally enter the road before the OP had an opportunity to legally enter the road (since a car was still passing the OP at the time the Blue Car entered the road).

    The moment the Blue Car (legally) entered the road, the OP must give way. If this ended in a collision, I suspect the OP would be at fault.

    OP - you should have expected the car to enter the road before you, as they had a legal opportunity before you had a legal opportunity. For future reference, you should have this expectation in similar circumstances.

    • I could not have said it better myself. Both cars were waiting for the same car to cross. The blue car obviously gets on the road before OP because the car on the road passes him first. He has the right to cross before OP.

  • +2

    It all depends on who was first. Did OP turn right first and the blue car entered the main road afterwards or the opposite? Whoever turned first has right of way.

    Edit: After watching the video, I think the blue car was correct. The blue car was turning left so it gave way to the cars to its right. When it was cleared the blue car then turned left. OP should have seen the blue car turning left and thus OP was able to stop. The blue car had no chance to see OP turning right.

  • +5

    "Who was right" is far less important than why you were accelerating aggressively while knowing there was a car that waiting to turn into the same road as you, and could possibly collide with your car?!

    Yes, you averted the accident in this instance, but you won't be lucky every day. Drive to the conditions, and be more cautious around turns and in the presence of other traffic/pedestrians.

  • Fairly sure that cars leaving a private premises have to give way to all cars on the road. That said, it's a really poorly designed area.

    Might change my vote to both are at fault.

  • +1

    Blue is correct, the distance between the 7/11 and the right turn is short, imagine if it was a few metres longer, who would be right?

    ask yourself, does the distance between the driveway and the street turned into matter (legal wise), I think not.

  • +1

    Where's the paint pic?

  • +1

    wohooooo!!!! thank you OP for giving some limelight to our suburb.

  • -3

    Crossing the line of traffic and not giving way for traffic entering the road… how is this hard? Hand in your license, actually at least you are framing as you want to improve…

  • +4

    More alarming is that the driver of blue car didn't even seem to notice the op! It would be a LOT safer if they closed that exit and everyone used the one exiting onto Anzac. Imho.

  • +2

    lmao - op never to be seen again

    • +8

      Haha good find….didn't want to be picky with responses. I wanted advice so I am only viewing everyone's opinions.

  • Id say you both need to be more aware. He was obviously leaving the servo and indicating as such, but you were also turning and indicating.

    If I was the blue car leaving the Servo to enter a main road I would have been more observant to my surroundings.

    But usually when leaving the main road you give way to all directions of traffic when crossing the flow of traffic.

    Personally I would say your both at fault for not being more observant and aware of your surroundings.

  • My vote is blue car is wrong.

    I drive along that road every day and have seen 2 accidents in 2 years at that exact intersection. I always assume the other driver is an idiot even if they are the ones who will be at fault in an accident.

  • +2

    blue car was correct as it began its journey to a turn before you. simple as that, once he turned he was considered oncoming traffic. its your job to wait for oncoming traffic.

  • +2

    By the time the blue car reaches the intersection, it is deemed to be "on the road" and therefore the OP would be required to give way when turning right across a line of oncoming traffic.

  • +2

    I think the blue car gets priority.

    Think, what if the blue car was a little further away from the intersection.

    Agree that blue car should give way to vehicles on the road, but I think it’s only for the vehicles that are in the direction of the entering vehicle (unless a vehicle from other direction is already in its way)

  • I know that spot, made that turn many times myself. I would say Blue car was in the wrong as i use that fuel station and when you leave you are basically exiting a driveway and onto the road so you have to make way for all the cars already on the road.

  • -1

    A lot of comments are saying blue car is wrong, but the vote is the other way round! Maybe the people voting are afraid of being negged?

  • +7

    I voted that the blue car was wrong as they are exiting private property and entering the road - they should've given way to you.

    • How can the blue car be expected to give way to traffic that isn't approaching from the right?

    • And i just neg you because at the moment of the collision the Blue car is already on the main road and the OP would collide to the car that he should give the way. The blue car would be on the main road for 1-2 meters and has the right to go first

  • +1

    Give way to the blue car would be preferred (safer). Basically, you were both looking on your right hand side. Just think of it as a roundabout, you give way to cars on your right.

    The blue car was doing a left hand turn. Unless there is a give way sign, most people don't look at the left hand side when turning left.

    I get you think at the end of the road (for the blue car), the blue car should technically give way. However, better safe than sorry. Anyway, it is a dangerous spot.

  • +3

    Blue car is in the wrong any day of the week, the OP is on the major road and the blue car has failed to give way.

    • Why would the blue car have to give way to traffic that's ahead of it? That's not how any of this works :)

      OP cut across traffic. How can a car that is on that road hit him and be at fault? For argument's sake, let's say it's a Sunday.

  • The law is simple, give way to all vehicles when entering a road. Blue car is wrong, HOWEVER

    Give way. Most people will not think to check that intersection when leaving the petrol station and even though you might be right, If you crash you will have to convince the police, your insurance and possible a magistrate that you were right. Worth waiting.

  • +3

    The only reason OP needs to give way to the blue car is when he is doing a U-Turn. Else the blue car entering the major road needs to give way.

    The blue car is basically facing OP direction for a good 1 seconds but still proceed to cut in front of him.

    Blue car doesn't even check or look for obstruction on the lane he is turning into. Just blindly turning into the lane.

  • +1

    Why doesn’t someone tweet the nsw police and ask. See what they say. I wish i had the tweeter or the Facebook.

    Post their answer here

  • +1

    You did the right thing not hitting the blue car on the side. Good on you. Exhale and move on.

  • +5

    https://imgur.com/a/oaFBpRQ

    I decided to pause the video just after the car passed and they began turning and coloured the roadway in red and the painted island in yellow. In this circumstance a car is not allowed to cross the painted island as if it did it would be driving onto Anzac Ave.

    Images 2 and 3 show a still of the car driving across the island and Anzac Ave, using the front of OPs car is an indicator of where Anzac Ave ends I have done my best attempt of outlining where the blue car was with a picture from maps, which is image 3.

    1. OP turned from the continuing road onto a terminated road so should get right of way.

    2. The blue car made an illegal maneuver by crossing the painted island and driving across the end of Anzac Ave (images 2 and 3 as ref)

    3. In the entire video we never see the blue car enter Blaxland road. It travels from 7/11 across an island then drives across a terminating road perpendicular to the direction the road goes, literally never touching Blaxland road the whole video.

    I would conclude the blue car is at fault.

    • +3

      I noticed that but thought they may have tightened their turn as they spotted OP as they pulled out.

    • +1
      1. That’s not a rule. OP needs to give way to all traffic. Especially since they’re turning right, blue car does not need to give way to vehicle entering oncoming traffic and turning right. Blue car has right of way.

      2. It is not always illegal to turn onto a painted island, in many cases you can, but you must not stop. In this instance it is not illegal.

      3. You mean the part they attempted to avoid collision with OP?

      • +1

        On 1, blue car has not yet entered the road, therefore the rest of your point is redundant…
        Blue car needs to give way to all traffic.

        • -2

          Everything between the front boundary of 7/11 and the front boundary of the property across the road is road.

          The nature strip is part of the road in terms of land tenure.

          Road refers to more than the pavement in terms of land tenure.

          If your argument is based on the nature strip not being road my advice would be to
          give up now because you are wrong and just wasting your time.

          • +2

            @Mosha: But you don't drive on the pavement or nature strip. You only cross them to enter another road. In this case minor roads always need to give way to major roads.

            • @max900: We are defining part of the road, there is no break in the road because pavement is primarily dedicated for pedestrians to walk on.

              You’re going to need to reference this minor/major road give way rule, because besides describing the hierarchy, the give way rules are not exclusive to certain types of road….

          • +1

            @Mosha: Yeah, nah. That's not what a road is because you say it is. The road is the road and a driveway is an entrance or exit to said road. A footpath is considered a road-related area which the driver would need to cross. By the end of your reply it seems as if you have actually given up because what you're saying is baseless and you can't be bothered to support it.

            • @Gnosh: It’s not a road, but it’s road related, nice one.

              • +5

                @Mosha: Hate to break it to you but that's the actual terminology. I'm also referring to the footpath. Try again.

                Source:

                74 Giving way when entering a road from a road related area or adjacent land
                (1) A driver entering a road from a road related area, or adjacent land, without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line must give way to—
                (a) any vehicle travelling on the road or turning into the road (except a vehicle turning right into the road from a road related area or adjacent land),

                Note 2—
                Adjacent land or a road related area can include a driveway, service station or shopping centre—see the definitions of adjacent land and road related area. Some shopping centres may include roads—see the definition of road in rule 12.

                [Rule 74]
                (https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/sl-...)

                [Rule 12 - Road definition]
                (https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current...)

                [Rule 13 - Road-related area definition]
                (https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current...)

                • +2

                  @Gnosh: Beat me to linking rule 74, though I was awfully late to it.

                • @Gnosh: The more you know!

                  Thanks for the entertainment (not sarcastic, debating these rules is genuinely educational)

                  I’ve come to the conclusion that if I was in either vehicle I would of waited longer after black car had passed before proceeding. They both proceeded at the same time only after it had passed and neither had time to anticipate each other.

  • You are in the wrong. You failed to give way when turning across a road. As such if you had caused an accident you would be in the wrong.

  • At the start of the GIF you made a left hand turn, you should have turned into the left lane first then indicated to turn right, then turn into the right lane

    You were on the road and as far as I could see, the blue car was not on the road, it was coming from a service station or the like, so the blue car had to wait until it was safe to turn left. It did not wait until it was safe to turn left and if there was an accident, the blue car would be at fault because you were on the carriageway, the blue car was not

  • +5

    I was taking a right from Blaxland road to the Anzac Ave

    Therefore you need to give way to ALL oncoming traffic.

    • at the moment of the possible collision, the Blue car would be already on the main road and the OP would collide to the car that he should give the way. The blue car would be on the main road for 1-2 meters already

  • +1

    Blue car is wrong. He’s entering main road from
    sub road and he should wait for everything to be clear.

  • +7

    lol at people thinking blue car was correct. No wonder no one has insurance in this place as they're all bloody expert drivers!

  • +1

    Blue is sus.

    • Blue car was not the Imposter…

  • +3

    Must have taken some courage to put this up on OzBargain OP, but good on ya and thanks for doing so.

    Even I was wondering what I would have done in that situation. It's not something I have encountered often.

    Thanks for the learning experience.

    • +1

      If i'm turning across lanes on opposite side I just stop & indicate as per OP then I give way to all vehicles on that side of the road before crossing because you never know what will happen on that side of road. As you can see the blue car has indicated he is turning and he was there in that position before I approached so I am not sure if he has seen me (he would be looking to his right as that's where he is waiting to merge) and my intent so I would assume he will just dive in whenever there is a gap in traffic and then after he passes me i'm safe to cross onto his side of road into the side street.

      If I was already sitting there waiting to turn and blue car was in the servo still and he then pulled up to the driveway I would take notice if he looks at me when he approaches then acknowledge he has seen me waiting to turn and might do the same thing OP did but odds are I would still wait for him as it more safer to let him go as he is on the "correct" direction of travel for traffic on that side of road.

      It really depends on the timing of the upcoming traffic gap and how wide the gap will be. You can normally get a read on if they will put out immediately or if they are waiting for you if you look how close their wheels are to the road, when people are right on the edge they are probably going to dart out immediately but if they are hanging back from the edge of the driveway they will probably wait for you to turn first.

      There is a one lane bridge near my house and although one side is technically give way as they have the sign if you are already there waiting and someone approaches from the other direction they will stop on their side and let you pass 99% of the time even though legally you are the one who has to give way to them. There's the legal road rules for deciding things in court to make a decision on a tricky situation but the way people use the road is not exactly by the books, as you drive for more years you will learn how to treat other drivers on the road.

      • Great info here Agret. Your answer makes a lot of sense. Always best to think about what the other driver is planning and what they can see and what they are focused on. I reckon that blue car didn't really pay attention to OP as much as they were for a gap in traffic.

        I usually think that a person who can see the "whole picture" occasionally has more control (and usually more responsibility) over the situation, in this instance OP, and they may have to anticipate the actions of other drivers.

  • +2

    I sincerely hope the votes for blue car being correct are troll votes, otherwise I hope those people don't drive…

    • +1

      Agreed… 64% on Ozbargain don't know the rules. Hope that's not at the same scale in the real world.

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