Employer Dismissed Me on The Grounds of Unsatisfactory Work Performance

I used to work with one of the Big 4 Banks as an full-time employee. I had just finished 5 months and was under probation when they terminated me on the grounds of unsatisfactory work performance.

I don't agree with this justification as everything was fine until few weeks ago when I started expressing my inability to work excessive overtime as it was impacting my mental and physical health as well as family life. The manager was micro manager and would only perceive the things through his own lenses. I started questioning this attitude and negative feedback given by the manager every time I performed some task. The manager thinks that working overtime is required for this job and I am not culturally fit for this role. But the reason for my termination has been marked as 'performance not meeting the expectations'.

I don't think this is fair to claim that an employee is poor performer because that person is unable to work overtime almost regularly and doesn't get along well with the manager.

I am happy to leave the company but not on allegations of poor performance. I feel having the dismissal due to poor performance will impact finding my next role and want to get rid of that on my termination letter. I have 14+ years of experience in this industry and similar roles and have had successful career so far with many rewards and recognitions up my sleeve. Also in this role, I have gained good trust and reputation from the other stakeholders but my line manager.

Anyways I feel this is the unfair dismissal and want to pursue this matter. What are my options? I looked up for Fair Work policy on unfair dismissal and they say you must complete 6 months to lodge the complaint of unfair dismissal.

Comments

        • From when to when? What hours?

          Monday to Wednesday 9-6 and then Thursday 9 to Sunday 5pm.

          • +2

            @funduguy4u: Up until Saturday you did an extra 3 hours overtime during the week. Obviously weekend work sucks but how often did it happen over 5 months?

            Here I was thinking you were punching out 12 hour days.

            • +6

              @Randolph Duke: If you worked 4 days straight (day and night) on the Thur-Sun stretch, I’ll revoke my comments. Have done it myself (few hours sleep each night) and it absolutely flattens you.

          • @funduguy4u: Wait a moment are you saying Thur-Sun 9 to 5, or no break between 9am Thursday and 5pm Sunday?

          • +3

            @funduguy4u: So you worked 9am to 6pm on each day from Mon to Wed? Where's the excessive overtime there? With a 1 hour break that's 8 hours work a day.

            Then you worked 9am to 5pm on each day from Thursday to Sunday? So say 7-7.5 hour days with 0.5-1 hour lunch break. Where's the excessive overtime? Is it that you worked a 6 day week? What was your roster? What did your contract say?

            My contract says I'm required to do up to 6 (or 8) hours overtime a week if there is a need for it. That's not uncommon to have in a contract.

            If you're not prepared to put in the work they want/need then they're well within their rights to let you go while you're on probation. Someone telling them in their first few months that you can't do the expected hours because of a list of reasons doesn't look good for you. While you're on probation you should be doing everything they ask basically if you want to keep the job.

          • +1

            @funduguy4u: 9am to 6am or 6pm?

            If it's 6am then you have a point, but if it was 6pm I have to say I don't know what's the problem.

          • @funduguy4u: 9-6 is hardly unreasonable. And do you mean 7 days, or is some of that “Thursday to Sunday” on call? Or is it 9-5 for the remaining days of the week?

            Are you implying that you were in the office from 9am Thursday until 5pm Sunday?!?

            Did you calculate the hours expected by chance? FWIW, I work between a 60 and 72 hour week.

  • -3

    Working in finance you can't expect 9to5, especially big 4

    ….

    Find smaller like ubank maybe you can

    • +3

      UBank is NAB subsidiary which is governed by NAB standards and way of working. Know a friend working there. 😂

  • +12

    14 years in the industry in similar roles and you didn't realise the role would come with overtime you couldn't commit to?

    • +2

      Yeah thats what smells here. Also you couldn't just not rock the boat until probation was over?

  • +30

    I'm going to give you the practical advice even if it means swallowing your anger. The practical advice is - move on.

    Lots of people are losing their jobs right now, particularly in financial services. I have friends from junior to senior roles who have lost their jobs. The truth is, most will likely not ask too much about any redundancies made this year and will just assume it's due to COVID-related reasons. If not, just let them know that you didn't feel that you were a good fit for the role during probation and you decided to move on. Ultimately this is the truth anyway.

    I would steer away from doing anything rash like legal challenges. Given you were on probation, you don't have much of a leg to stand on anyway and it's not worth it for a job that you supposedly don't like.

    FWIW, you are a salaried employee, not an hourly casual. You are not paid to "clock in" and "clock out". You are paid to do work and it's a competitive industry, especially right now. If you're not willing to put in that additional time, you have to be aware that there are a whole host of people who have just been fired and are willing to take up your role with the additional time.

    I'm not one to defend rogue employers taking advantage of their employees, but you seem smart and competent. There are plenty of industries and workplaces where you would succeed in and which would perhaps suit your lifestyle more. Good luck.

    • +2

      Thank you for your constructive feedback.

    • Your salary has to equal to or above the award rate for hours worked otherwise it’s wage theft

  • +3

    If you were struggling with the required overtime then it's probably best that you don't work there, it doesn't seem it was a good fit for you or your previous employer. This might seem harsh but complaining about anything during probation isn't a smart move.

  • +3

    Probation ffs /thread

  • +1

    Sounds like you are better off leaving, it's a funny world, workplace entitlement law says you can only have regular hours of 38 hours if full time, but then say reasonable overtime can be requested of you, but what is reasonable? no strict rule and plenty of leeway for employers so that the workplace entitlement law is a waste of paper/time… The whole thing is a joke…

    Not all employers are like that, you are better off looking elsewhere as it sounds like it was a crap place to work anyway, with unreasonable expectations and micro management (life is too short to deal with that crap). As others have said the probation period also gives you the opportunity to realise the culture doesn't suit you and leave.. I would suggest you leave it as that IF you are directly asked in the future, you left during probation as you didn't like the culture in that department..

    You were on probation, unfair dismissal is a waste of your time and money to pursue, just look elsewhere, sorry…

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-g…

    • +3

      I think reasonable overtime means that if you were to divide the weekly salary amongst those hours it cannot be below that industries lowest accepted wage. I can't remember where I read that from though.

      • +1

        You are exactly right. In probationary period issues however you are no better than a contractor who can be let go at a whim. It sucks and is wrong but there you go.

  • +1

    Seems to me their expectations are too high to be met in contracted hours alone and by not working extra it becomes impossible to perform to said expectations.

  • +9

    What you should have done was keep your head down, do what was asked of you but be looking for a job in the meantime, and left when you found one.

  • +3

    Being a Big 4 bank, the HR department and the Manager would have made sure they were complying with the law when they ended your employment. So, it is unlikely that a complaint to Fair Work would succeed.

    As others have said, you don't have to explain everything in detail in your next interview. And you certainly wouldn't be asked to show the letter from your previous employer.

    You can just say something generic, such as the employment ended because you and the manager had different personalities and working styles. And, for your references, you can use your previous managers.

  • +39

    Bro - you'd done 5 of the 6 months probation. Why didn't you just suck in the big ones and feign it for one month longer? Then they'd be paying you out to get rid of you. I don't know the ins and outs of your previous job but instinct tells me when you're on probation, just play ball and stay under the radar. No one wants to a squeaky wheel. It's a competitive world out there - now more than ever - and no one owes you a living. I hope you land on your feet.

    • +11

      Came to say the same thing. I worked for two Big 4 Banks and they hate anyone making waves let alone in their probation period.

    • +8

      Exactly. It's a lesson for him, a valuable (or costly) one. He'll know for next time. He works for the company, not the other way around. And if the mental and physical pressure is too much then he's in the wrong job anyway, so good to leave now rather than suffer under pressure and quit later anyway.

  • -1

    I think so you should contact the HR department and setup a meeting and discuss on areas that they felt your performance was poor. Whether it was not meeting KPIs or customer complaints etc. You are entitle to a fair assessment. If they refuse then you can have the Fair Work involved. This is first thing Fair Work would ask you do in any case if you contact them.

    • +3

      Fair Work involved? For what? Which section of the Fair Work Act has the employer allegedly contravened to warrant any kind of involvement?

      • They can just work as a mediator to help employer and employee to communicate, they wont have any authority in it or give a ruling but can advise the employer on how to resolve the situation. I had a similar issue and that is what they told me to do.

        • +4

          The situation was already resolved by way of termination. OP can use the resources of the company (the HR department) directly instead of wasting government resources.

  • +4

    Go over his head and ask for a sanitised termination letter. You may find this a good option because the company will see this as a way to avoid any further problems for them. Make it clear that you just want to move on and have a fair chance at a new job that shouldn’t be affected by a poor working relationship with your old manager. Chances are they will already have other feedback about them anyway but mostly they will want you out of their hair without any comeback on the company in the future. It’s the pragmatic approach that often wins the day.

    NB Fairwork legislation is a sellout for workers when it comes to probation periods because you are not classed as a full employee for too long a period. It used to be you had full employment rights the day you started work and should never have changed. Employers exploit this all the time.

    • What would a sanitised termination letter look like? Is it saying just that you worked at the business from this date to that date and maybe your role and that's all?

      • Pretty much. But if you push your luck as it’s a negotiation in a way to save them some problems you could have a referee on it that wasn’t your problem superior so they didn’t have a chance to sabotage your chances in the future. Maybe a different level of management. Whatever you can get away with. I would also ask for a seperate letter promising that nothing negative would be said about you by anybody at the firm would be seen as a breach of your privacy.

    • Why would you even want a termination letter in the first place? You just say you worked there and say it didn't work out and you parted amicably. If they call the bank to ask if you did work there they will confirm that yes, you did work there.

  • +3

    Sounds like you didn't want to do what they expected of you so who cares? Just move on.

    • he doesn't want on his record that he was fired for unsatisfactory performance.

      • What public record? Maybe his performance was unsatisfactory according to the company? That's the purpose of a probationary period. I wouldn't list a probationary period as a job I had anyway because it doesn't show longevity.

  • -7

    So correct me if I’m wrong.

    You were a probie.

    You argued and talked back to your manager, refusing to do some tasks.

    You got sacked.

    Sounds like they should put in a complaint against you… you’re their bitch whilst you’re a probie. Also pretty sure you signed a “reasonable overtime” clause. Yes it sucks, but man…

    Out of curiosity what year were you born? Or decade will do.

    • +9

      In the spirit of full disclosure what year were you born?

    • +1

      Definitely checks out.

  • -4

    TOTALLY USELESS POST!

    Under probation the employer doesnt even have to give a reason.

    But obviously poor OP openly admits they couldnt cope.
    So the job wasnt right for you anyway OP.

    Just go and find another job.

    • -1

      We’re you their boss?

  • Don't you see, it was all part of the evaluation process… and you emerged "unsatisfactory"!

  • +3

    This is something that the law should be changed with regard to probation, because during this period employee has no recourse and it’s not fair. Employer probably take advantage of this loop hole.
    I believe probation should be no longer than 3 months to be fair to employee. Employer should not hire a person if there are no intention of keeping them, which should be decided during interviews.

    • +1

      People lie all the time for gains. They would lie in an interview if they think that they can get away with it.

      3 months is only 60 business days. It is to short to make a proper assessment to see if the employee is a team player.

    • This is something that the law should be changed with regard to probation, because during this period employee has no recourse and it’s not fair.

      This is for the employees benefit as well. If they feel the company is not good for them, they can leave with a lesser notification period. As a manager I have to give 6 weeks notice. During probation it's only 1 week notice if I decide to leave and it's similar for other positions.

      Employer should not hire a person if there are no intention of keeping them, which should be decided during interviews.

      An employer doesn't just hire someone with the knowledge that they will only last 1 month, but it is a useful tool if you ended up hiring the wrong person. It is expensive to go through a hiring and training period to then have to do it again a month or so later. However working together and finding the person is the wrong fit would be worse.

      I've hired people that have said all the right things during an interview. 5 days working together and I have been leaning on the idea that they may not make it. I still manage them, give feedback and train them and give them time to settle in and improve, but a couple of months later and no improvement. Sometimes you have to cut your loses.

      20 years as a manager and I've probably only let 4 people go during probation, but it's a necessary process.

      • +1

        20 years as a manager

        Why are some managers allowed to continue being terrible managers in the company even after being exposed by lawyers as being corrupt and engaging in unlawful behaviour?

        • Because they just are

        • I won't make excuses for bad managers, but it's often because they are badly managed. People who are afraid of conflict, not being held accountable, being scared of the extra work to replace someone. It could even be company culture that forces the person to cut corners and cross lines.

          As I said, no excuse for that. A bad manager is worse than a bad employee and should be replaced as necessary.

        • +1

          Talk about a loaded question.

        • Why do you think many are allowed?

          We hear about the bad, we don't hear much about the average/good managers.

          The bigger the company the harder it is to let someone go, especially for the big 4.

          Most managers just have suck it up with crappy employees. I've worked at 2 of the big 4, I have never seen someone let go for poor performance.

          The reality is "manager" isn't a career you train for, manager is a responsibility you have to learn as you go up the ladder

    • +2

      How did the employer take advantage of anything though? That's literally the point of probation periods - to find out if you will be a good fit for the role. Sounds to me like they used the probation period the way it was supposed to be used.

      You can also negotiate probation periods during your interview and negotiations.

  • +5

    All I know is if a company ever wants me to sign a reasonable overtime clause, I'm going to ask them to sign a reasonable overpay clause.

    • +2

      You just won't get the job…..so yay?

      • I'll just continue to be self-employed, so that's a double yay from me :)

  • +1

    I started expressing my inability to work excessive overtime as it was impacting my mental and physical health as well as family life.

    I started questioning this attitude and negative feedback given by the manager every time I performed some task.

    Arguing whilst on probation.

    Hate to state the obvious but I'll say you are not 100% for that kind of work.

    It is not you.
    It is the kind of work and commitment needed.

  • +5

    Wow I must be getting old.

    40 years ago if you weren't suited to the job you simply moved on.

    Now it seems you get to question your boss, perform unsatisfactorily while on probation, complain bitterly on a public internet forum and feel you're entitled to an unfair dismissal (again, on probation).

    Man I really fear for the world we are entering. I'm all for everyone getting a fair go don't get me wrong but it just seems (to me - my opinion I'll wear the criticism) that the employees are starting to slowly become softer and softer and expecting more and more from jobs. Especially financially. No-one is willing to actually willing to put in hard yards for a dollar any more.

    I hope it's not the same people who complain bitterly when people foreign to Australia are taking a lot of the jobs.

    Sorry for the rant just some of these posts worry me. Surely a business owner can expect a person they employ to do what is asked of them and if that's not possible let them move on in peace?

    • +11

      40 years ago the unions were stronger

    • Ok boomer

      • -2

        Zing!!

  • +2

    You are stuffed and they can dismiss you for whatever reason they see fit but…

    Why didn't you pick this up in your 1on1s with the boss? You should have been having a quick, informal weekly one and a formal monthly meeting that went back to HR (that's how we do it).

    Move on, you don't have to reveal the true reason you parted company.

  • +1

    The whole crux of this is who does six months' probation periods? Use to be three months. At five months you'd know whether your in or out jobwise.

  • +4

    Move on man. The manager probably doesn't like you. Don't waste your time trying to please arseholes.

  • +1

    Put the role in your resume but frame it in such a way it was a short role that was not the right fit for you. 5 months is a blip on a 14 years career. Don't worry about their feedback as not all jobs work out.

    I had similar experience but I always explained the manager I was supposed to work with left and was replaced by someone with completely different expectations of me. I would not have accepted the job otherwise.

    • But it’s their last job. That will take some fancy footwork.

      • +2

        OP can always explain it such that they enjoyed working there but had to deal with an a** manager. OP should mention the achievements they made despite working with a culturally bad-fitting manager.

        I have been in this position twice. Believe me many employers will be understanding. Where you don't fit in one place, you may be a star in another. Cultural fit is a real challenge.

        • I agree but when there are so many people looking for the same position and one was let go it cam make it less likely in these times

  • -1

    Don’t take it personally. The big banks are notorious for sacking employees just before their probation period ends. Move on, you are better off working elsewhere with your 14+ years experience.

    • Next we'll find out it's his 28th job in finance…. 14 years… all 6 months in length.

  • +1

    few suggestions -
    1. list this job on CV.. its experience you have gained through hard work. How you share your experience, knowledge in interview and what value you bring to prospective employer is upto you.
    2. Mentioned you have left for xyz reason. If there is possibility to list that role as contractor then it is even better. you can always say contract finished due to funding cut.
    3. While providing reference details - give someone you know at previous employer who is happy to answer reference check as your manager.

    I have seen all these scenarios at my work place and personally know few guys who have done this. so All the best

  • Your best shot would be a general protections claim.

    But if you did have performance issues, be prepared for a detailed public record outlining them for future employers.

  • Just move on and look for something else, you never know, you might find a job much much better than the one you just been let go off. Good luck

  • Were you the only person doing overtime?

  • You should not take this hard on yourself and relax. You will be able to get job based on your 14 years of experience and you can always say that you did not like work culture and explain it why. Your future employer may like to have references but I guess not from a place where you did not even complete the probation period.

  • Most good employers do not reference check your past and they interview you on your skills, attitude. For e.g. Google do not ask for reference. You have nothing to worry about if you have the skills for the job and a good overall attitude.

    • For e.g. Google do not ask for reference.

      Yeah but getting a job there is tough. They give you some tough quizzes and ask really difficult questions that test your ability to think on your feet. These questions are not knowledge tests for the role but a test of your spontaneous problem solving ability and are designed to weed out all but the most elite.

  • Only do casual or double casual, in the trashy pandemic period, employers will screw you over, not small businesses tho, the big ones.

    Play to your own fiddle.

  • +2

    Based on what you have said you would have a general protections claim against the bank. That is the reason for your termination is because you made an enquiry or complaint about your employment. That’s a workplace right and they cannot dismiss you for that reason. This is a different claim to an unfair dismissal and the six months period doesn’t apply.

    As for whether you pursue them or not, my advice is to ask yourself are you going to still feel aggrieved some five years later? I know people who feel that way and regret they didn’t make a claim when it was open to them.

    You can make the claim within 21 days of the dismissal. If your outside that time then you can seek an extension but your prospects would be good.

    Good luck with whatever decision you make.

  • +2

    Never burn the bridges and who knows the same manager might be back in another work place too. Just smile and move on. You may object or argue while you work but not after the termination. I know a friend who was affected almost 5 years because of he went through fair work ombudsman and got paid 6 months salary. But he was unable to get any job in similar role after that.

  • Dude, you are on probation. You can be dismissed on any ground. It's amazing you don't understand this when you claim to have 14+ years of experience in your industry.

    • +1

      During probation you need to be given regular feedback on performance. You can just get to the last week and boom, you’re a crap worker, seeya.

      • Need to and have to by law are 2 different things. Surely as a union delegate you must be familiar with this?

        • This is absolutely everything wrong with the current system.

          Notwithstanding this situation appears to, on the face of it, relate to adverse action on a general protection disguised as poor performance. The onus of proof is on the employer. It’s tricky and would encourage OP to seek counsel from his/her union.

          • @Vote for Pedro: You live in a fantasy land if you think involving a union is going to make one iota of difference here. Selling lies to try and drive membership is not the way to go about it…. And this is coming from a union member :)

            • @Hardlyworkin: Not encouraging op to join. Encouraging op to speak to union if he’s already a member.

              Each individual circumstance is different and should be judged on its merits by specialist industrial officers.

          • -1

            @Vote for Pedro: I work in IT and don’t have any union that I know of.

      • OP said this:

        I started questioning this attitude and negative feedback given by the manager every time I performed some task.

        So sounds like he was given regular feedback on his performance.

        • Negative feedback alone is incompetence from the manager. Real feedback outlines shortcomings and provides guidance on what you (the manager) were expecting.

          Negative feedback minus guidance is a waste of time. Rolling eyes and huffing is not enough. Happy for OP to provide more detail in this regard.

          As an employee, when given negative feedback but any guidance is lacking I do ask what was expected or what the boss would like to see different.

          • @Vote for Pedro: We only have OPs description to go by though. It could have been negative and constructive feedback, we will never know.

            • @MrFunSocks: If the OP was willing to share, that would be decent but again we will only ever have one side of the story.

          • @Vote for Pedro: I do ask what was expected or what the boss would like to see different.

            That’s was exactly I asked and the manager got pissed off saying I am arguing or purring back on his face.

  • +2

    It's quite obvious that OP didn't have a "high yield investment" vehicle to impress the higher ups.

    In all seriousness OP, you don't have much recourse here, although I'm confused as to why you mentioned this at the last month of your probation

  • Yep get over it they can dismiss you for any reason

  • Get in touch with your union. You joined, right?

    • They can’t help you with probation, it’s cooked. Even if you get dismissed from a union on probation the union that looks after union employees can’t help. Also, it would have been the FSU so he wouldn’t have been helped regardless.

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