Employer Dismissed Me on The Grounds of Unsatisfactory Work Performance

Lfunduguy4u on 06/10/2020 - 16:49
Last edited 06/10/2020 - 19:09

I used to work with one of the Big 4 Banks as an full-time employee. I had just finished 5 months and was under probation when they terminated me on the grounds of unsatisfactory work performance.

I don't agree with this justification as everything was fine until few weeks ago when I started expressing my inability to work excessive overtime as it was impacting my mental and physical health as well as family life. The manager was micro manager and would only perceive the things through his own lenses. I started questioning this attitude and negative feedback given by the manager every time I performed some task. The manager thinks that working overtime is required for this job and I am not culturally fit for this role. But the reason for my termination has been marked as 'performance not meeting the expectations'.

I don't think this is fair to claim that an employee is poor performer because that person is unable to work overtime almost regularly and doesn't get along well with the manager.

I am happy to leave the company but not on allegations of poor performance. I feel having the dismissal due to poor performance will impact finding my next role and want to get rid of that on my termination letter. I have 14+ years of experience in this industry and similar roles and have had successful career so far with many rewards and recognitions up my sleeve. Also in this role, I have gained good trust and reputation from the other stakeholders but my line manager.

Anyways I feel this is the unfair dismissal and want to pursue this matter. What are my options? I looked up for Fair Work policy on unfair dismissal and they say you must complete 6 months to lodge the complaint of unfair dismissal.

Education & Work

Comments

      • Vote for Pedro on 08/10/2020 - 16:28

        I’m sure the advice from a seasoned industrial officer would be better than an OzBargain forum.

        • DemocracyManifest on 09/10/2020 - 11:06
          -1

          The advice is, it's probation, nothing can be done about it.

  • PaperplaneXXX on 08/10/2020 - 10:45

    I personally feel for you this caused distress and self confidence.
    I was pushed to work overtime without pay from midnight to 6 am
    also double shifts.

    Trust me its for better you didn't get that job!
    thats toxic! think about mental health.

    don't feel bad! leave those crazy bosses.

  • esty on 08/10/2020 - 11:17

    Why don't you call up the company and negotiate the reason of termination to say that you left on your own accord for your future job prospects and move on.

  • jellykingdom on 08/10/2020 - 11:44

    I'm sure some people have said similar already…but I seriously would have reconsidered rejecting the working hours during probation period! It's much harder to get rid of you after 6months. It's no real surprise they decided to exercise their (unfortunate) right to get rid of you, even though it's really lousy thing to do. Overtime absolutely sucks and you do need to draw a line and not be taken advantage of, but it's hardly like you can't have been aware of this, i have heard this from anyone who works for a Big 4

    However I think overall you'll probably end up thinking this was a GOOD move. Imagine doing that job for years!

    PS probation period limitations MUST end at 6mo point, regardless of whether they choose to extend it in name only, it's a little known part of the employment law. I was looking to extend someone's probation due to middling performance, and the HR manager told me that the "fire for no reason" limitations end after 6mo, so there's no real benefits to extension.

  • hts on 08/10/2020 - 12:34
    +6

    I was dismissed due to 'poor performance' from my last job. The reason they cited that is my wife was pregnant when I got the role, I explained it's a complicated pregnancy and I'll be requiring time off for interstate hospital trips weekly and generally will need to flexible with hours. They agreed to this (in writing mind you). Fast forward 4 months, and 2 days before my wife was set for c-section and I was to go on 3 weeks unpaid paternity leave, they fired me, saying my life is not suited to their company. Citing my days off (to travel 4 hours to the specialist) every 2 weeks. They said due to my family I am not suited to this role. We were working from home due to Covid at the time mind you, and I work in IT and 99% of my work is remote, and can be done at any time generally.

    I don't get the unfair dismissal protection due to not being there 12 months, but I do suspect I could have an unlawful dismissal due to discrimination on family grounds, not to mention I have the email from them stating it's due to my family. I haven't bothered as I don't want anything to do with anyone who would fire someone 2 days before the birth of their kid…. Not to mention they said it would give me more time with my family, because you know it's ok to not have an income as long as you can spend time with your Family….

    Anyways OP, unless you want to sue, I'd forget the experience. I don't even put them on my resume, I have a 4 month gap from my last role to my current, explained away with family care. Wish I never took their offer.

    • neonlight on 09/10/2020 - 00:05

      Not sure how you did it saying 4 months gap but I guess was ok with a newborn. For someone who didn't have a newborn, but sure what reasons or excuse can be given

  • knk on 08/10/2020 - 12:35

    You screwed up here.

    Should have sucked it up until your probation period was over and then refused unpaid OT.

    Not saying that it's fair, its just how it works.

    • Willco88 on 08/10/2020 - 12:59

      Yes exactly you do everything you can to show how serious you are about the role when on probation, not pick and choose when you want to work then wonder why the refuse you or dismiss you when there's 100ppl lined up waiting for this kind of role.

      • Vote for Pedro on 08/10/2020 - 18:50

        So it’s ok to cop abuse and unreasonable overtime because there’s 100’s of others. I call bullsht. Boomers had secure work for most of their working lives. These days it’s casual and insecure.

        Remember it’s our role to make things better for the next generation not to leave them with worse working conditions. On that, us older folks have failed our youth and failed them miserably!

        • Willco88 on 08/10/2020 - 18:55

          Might not be fair but it is what it is, you need to show how bad you want the job by taking any extra work you can get, the fact of today is jobs are not secure or guaranteed at all.

          Proof and fact is there will always be someone else willing to do the job if you don't want to… And bosses know this..

        • knk on 09/10/2020 - 09:30

          It's not okay, it's not fair. It's straight up ridiculous - But it's the reality of things. The employer holds the power while you're on probation, once you pass probation the employee has the power.

          Simple as that. I'm not recommending sucking it up indefinitely, just until you have some security behind you.

          If OP had just kissed ass for another month he would've had a fairwork claim or a job right now.

  • Bid Sniper on 08/10/2020 - 12:55
    +1

    "micro manager "
    Good old toxic insecure narcissist manager, oversupply of these @$$holes.

    Seen these type of garbage many times before, goes on for years little changes. Did you a favor leaving a toxic work environment, file a complaint with HR and just move on.

  • All Blacks NZ on 08/10/2020 - 13:09
    +2

    I have worked for one of the big 4 for 10 years at various levels. I was employed as part of 60 new people as they were starting a few sales team. About 20 people from that 60 left over the next 6 months as the role wasn't suitable for them etc. Once you become permanent, its very difficult for the bank to get rid of you especially if you are part of a union. I had a good friend who was targeted by his manager as she didn't like him. I was also working as a team leader and I can tell you she was out for blood and would find anything to write up disciplinary BS. If he took 3 toilet breaks or was more than 2 minutes late from lunch etc. She would have a meeting with him to discuss his performance/attitute etc and he will bring someone from union to sit in the meeting. They would put him on an "action plan" for 4-6 weeks. He would work hard and get his numbers higher than everyone else and at the second meeting, the team leader couldn't do anything. And the process would start again. What I am trying to say is that most managers know that it's very difficult to get rid of people once they become permanent and if they see you are going to be trouble, they rather get rid of you now when they don't have to justify their actions.

    Now you should take this as an opportunity to learn and see how you can be better. Most managers you are going to work for are going to be annoying, negative, micro-managers etc etc. Their job is to get the most out of you and most are not very good at their job so they think they can get the job done by micro-managing etc. The point is you can't control or change your managers. You can only control yourself and your performance.

    In regards to your particular case. I think you got dismissed as you didn't want to do overtime. Every employment contract I signed with the bank had reasonable overtime in it. It's very lucrative to work overtime as you get 1.5X on most days and 2X on weekends. I did plenty of overtime during my time at the bank. The banks or any employer will only employ enough people to do the job and if there are seasonal or promotional trends that bring in more business a few times a year, they can't employ more people, train them for 2-3 months and then end their employment after the extra work is done. They would just ask existing employees to do some overtime until things get back to normal. That's just smart business.

    Hope you learn something from this. Read your next employment contract carefully and discuss things that don't suit you or ask questions upfront like how much overtime do you guys currently do or would expect me to do and get that in writing either in your contract or an email from HR/manager. Good luck.

  • DemocracyManifest on 08/10/2020 - 14:51

    Aren’t payroll/rosters set centrally and you don’t have a say over them? The conditions are usually spelled out at employment, you don’t have a case, just on your resume say it was temp work

  • Willco88 on 08/10/2020 - 18:09
    -5

    All I see is an entitled GEN Yer who feels they deserve to be given everything on a platter and spoon fed.

    On probation they can sack you just because they don't like you. Simple as that. All these big companies have huge turnover of staff.

    Then they hire immigrants at half the wages because young Australian won't work for minimum wages just to get onto the ladder.

    You've got to start at the bottom and work your way up and take the boring menial jobs, you are one ant out of millions mate.

  • Orico on 08/10/2020 - 18:36

    If you can't survive 6 months, JUST LEAVE. I'm not saying it's your fault but chances are they'll be a dick to you next time too during a restructure.

  • Lordarainyday on 08/10/2020 - 19:07

    Hi mate

    sorry to hear ur situation but think of it at as the best thing to happen to you.
    Banks and bank manager and CEO are the worst in the whole world.

    They pay u peanuts and make massive $$$$ from overworked / underappreciated workers like u.

    Congrats on getting the hell out of that joint.

    Go and do something u actually like rather than suck up to that shitty bank.

    Good luck

  • timmy_tam on 08/10/2020 - 20:32

    dont end up like me….

    i had a conversation with friends

    me" i work so much overtime"
    them "how many hours do you do?"
    me "about 2-3 hours"
    them "a week? thats ok"
    me "no, every day"
    them " WTF?!?!?!?"

    turns out, if youre only paid for a 38 hour week plus a 'reasonable amount of overtime'

    reasonable does not mean an extra 3 hours /day = 15 hours per week = 60 hours per month

    learning that the hard way…..

    • dizzle on 08/10/2020 - 22:32
      +1

      The way I see it if your "base" hours are 38 I would expect a standard week would be 38-44 hours (for a standard low-mid level job and probably being more the 40-42 hours a week). If you are doing more than that a week, then it's an extra days work and that wouldn't be reasonable.

      Of course that all changes depending on what your pay is like. Assuming the more you get paid, the more you have to "make sure the job gets done, no matter what".

    • ratman on 10/10/2020 - 11:03

      similar here, typical day is at least 12 hours, often on 'weekends' too. but the work is good, interesting, and rewarding so i don't mind at all. hell i even put in longer hours when im on a particular interesting project i cant tear myself away from.

    • SlavOz on 16/10/2020 - 18:33

      The expectation of working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is already loaded with overtime. The overtime is already included.

      Everyone knows that employees only do about 3-4 hours of work per day. The rest of that time is just useless admin/housekeeping stuff or dragging out the day with meetings.

      Instead of letting you leave when your daily work is done, employers prefer to keep you locked to your seat for an extra 4-5 hours in case something urgent comes up. So in essence, after working for 8 hours, you've already done overtime.

      This is why when the notion of overtime gets pushed by an employer, it's a huge red flag for me. I'm happy to work for 8 hours a day and be expected to get all my work done in that time. What I'm not happy about is being judged based on how long I choose to sit in a chair for. Overtime for the sake of overtime is just draconian bullshit.

  • ribze1 on 08/10/2020 - 20:46
    +2

    14+ years in the banking industry i would expect that you should know how things work.

  • sassypants on 08/10/2020 - 23:08
    +1

    Over the five months how often did you have to work the Saturdays and Sundays? If it was just one or two crunch-time weekends, that is fairly normal. Your hours were 9-5 or 9-6, which is very normal.

    Most large companies, especially the Big 4, currently have in place hiring freezes and getting rid of someone during Covid with no ability to replace the headcount is a tough call to make by any manager. If you're in Melbourne, that applies even more.

    The role didn't suit your lifestyle and expectations.
    If you have 14 years in the industry already then your knowlege/skills/expertise will say more than a 5 month role that didn't work out. If you're asked about what happened you simply say the truth, that both parties expected something different from the role. That's a very acceptable explanation because any interviewer or recruiter knows that if you've worked long enough, you'll have one of those experiences eventually.
    Do not under any circumstances speak badly of the employer (of the 5 month role) when you go for an interview for a new job, that just makes you look bad to a potential employer.

  • neonlight on 08/10/2020 - 23:56

    Mate I went through two jobs with similar issue. Where they keep saying my performance is not good within the six months and just terminate my employment. Which is all BS. You either need to find another job with previous good referees and forgot the whole thing or spend time and energy to try win this over.

    So many companies exploiting this probation period

  • iamhurtin on 09/10/2020 - 00:06

    Should of done something horrifically evil
    You'd have a corner cubicle now

  • CI on 09/10/2020 - 06:51
    -2

    What is overtime to you? In consulting we pump out 12 hour days almost daily as if it’s normal and a weekend atleast once a month. It’s just the pace our work is done at. Was your workload beyond this ?

  • cnrmlj on 09/10/2020 - 07:55
    +1

    I’ve been working for one of the big 4 banks for the past 10 years and find that it depends on the division and team as to how much over time is expected as a general rule.

    I am finding at the moment that more and more is expected while we are working from home. I let it get to me in August but after a couple of weeks holiday in September i am back to shutting the computer and phone off around 5:30 each day and dealing with whatever is left tommorrow. I guess i will find out how effective my strategy has been in my performance review next week.

    Once you get to a certain level it is actually written into your employment contract that you will need to work overtime. It’s not clear what level you are at. It seems like a bit of a personality clash though. Not all managers believe in mental and physical health concerns.

  • victimized on 09/10/2020 - 08:58
    -2

    So it's COVID19 where people are struggling for jobs, and you don't want to work overtime to secure your financial stability? Interesting.

    • iamhurtin on 09/10/2020 - 09:43

      Maybe the op doesn't want to be the guy I met in the cummins unit, who finally had a break down due to this exact same situation.

      I hope that guy is alright.

      • iamhurtin on 09/10/2020 - 09:45

        Or a friend I had, the alcoholic, who never seemed to get a break from the constant emails and phone calls.

  • bobolo on 09/10/2020 - 10:25
    +2

    Wait you did 5 out of 6 months of probation at a Big 4 bank and complained about work hours? You couldn't wait 1 more month before having a whinge??

    • hopper on 09/10/2020 - 12:47
      +1

      he will learn soon

    • Harold Halfprice on 10/10/2020 - 11:04

      Yeah… Regardless of whether OP is in the "right" to protest unpaid overtime - the reality is it was a stupid decision to make not only with only 1 month of probation to go but during a pandemic.

      The unfortunate reality is that overtime in many professional industries is an expectation. It's not fair, but nonetheless it's the way it is. I'm not saying don't protest it, but don't do so during probation and act surprised that they let you go. That is incredibly naive for someone who apparently has 14 years in the industry.

  • Frankensnore on 09/10/2020 - 11:47
    +2

    That's very shitty of your boss. There are many of them in any industry sadly.
    They should have given you a heads up and tells you what you need to do to be better, and help you to work towards it.

    Are you in a technical role reporting to a technical manager?

    • hopper on 09/10/2020 - 12:48
      +1

      Are you in a technical role reporting to a technical manager

      username checks out

      • Frankensnore on 09/10/2020 - 13:32
        +3

        The way I experienced in corporate world there are Do-er and Leader.
        More often than not the good Do-er are promoted to Leader as a reward of their good job. This is a mistake.

        The new Leader has no intention to lead/emotional capability to help anyone to be better. This is the case that Op was seeing, no help, no direction, no leadership.
        Or, they could even hate seeing their team member doing better than themselves.

        These leaders often stuck in that 1st-level/2nd level managerial position because they don't do a good job.
        But they can't be demoted either, because demotion for bad job in corporate world is complicated.

        So what can they do? Well they fire you of course. Hire someone else who is better but not too good.

        For you Op, my word of wisdom is, one door close, another open. Don't be discouraged, you are who you are, and you surely capable to prove those a$$hole wrong.

        • hopper on 09/10/2020 - 13:52

          can't agree more, this was the only reason i prefer contracting instead of permanent position.

    • Baghern on 10/10/2020 - 14:15

      It would be shitty if he was targeted.

      Managers with high turnover are closely looked at.

      Its also extremely hard to be let go for poor performance at the big 4. They're verging on public company territory

  • johndowy on 09/10/2020 - 12:24

    I am curious what your salary was like?

  • hopper on 09/10/2020 - 12:47

    Just to make you feel better I was fired Thrice (being a contractor), always had issue with people who micro manage, this was me before getting married. Now I know how to handle those kind. I have more things to worry in life now compared to those Micro managers (and I'm still contractor)

  • hopper on 09/10/2020 - 12:52

    Also try to be nice with the manager, it only takes few mins for him to write something abt you on linkedin.

  • techlead on 09/10/2020 - 14:53
    +3

    Let me get this straight, you were 5 months into a 6 months probation and you whinged about hours just before your probation is up…are you serious? You can't wait one more month?

    I used to work in a Big 4 bank, and have always worked more than 37.5 hours. That's nature of the role unfortunately, unless you work in retail, eg as a teller or customer service at a branch, work follows up home, even before COVID-19. Also, in your contract, it says 37.5 hours plus any "reasonable overtime", now the million dollar question would be the definition of "reasonable" and lawyers would be jumping with joy to try to help you define that.

    Reality is, unfortunately, you will be hard pressed to find a job where you work exactly 37.5 hours, apart from those retail style jobs. I'm definitely working more than that in my current role, this is why finding a job which you enjoy is so important and yes, it means less time with your family, but that's the way it is unfortunately.

    If you are expected to work significantly more than 37.5 hours, then you should raise it and push back, but do it after the probation period lol, otherwise you wouldn't have any protections if they dismiss you during the probationary period, they'd have too much wiggle room.

    Use this experience as a lesson and move on.

  • utsc on 09/10/2020 - 23:55
    +1

    @funduguy4u

    I can totally understand your point of view.

    You have not given enough details but I hope you have documented the issues and saved some emails that might support your position before you were fired.

    The law is NOT black and white - If that was the case, courts and judges would have been replaced by a software and become automated.

    Law is only a guidance and a variety of factors are taken into consideration before passing a judgement. That's why case law is a very important part of a legal system.

    Many employment lawyers offer a free initial consultation and if I were you, I would go for a free or even paid initial consultation to know where you stand after taking into account the entire circumstances of the termination.

    Many people chickens out or feel that they don't have the resources to take on a manager who has the backing of the organization and its resources. Organizations know that and try to capitalize on the fear and lack of confidence of employees.

    Keep in mind that the banks already have bad publicity and C level executives will not be keen for get more negative publicity.

    Depending on the individual circumstances, when the lawyer send a letter contesting the dismissal for performance, employers usually try to settle for some exit package that your lawyer maybe able to negotiate.

    You may want to research some legal precedent relating to your dismissal in free case law sites.

    We have to stand by our principles in life even if it mean that we end up taking some risk. Don't let anyone run over you.

    • mjwills on 16/10/2020 - 13:52

      They aren't going to settle, since the OP has no case. In the first 6 months the company can terminate you for any reason they like (hell, they don't even need to tell you what the reason is!) as long as it isn't unlawful (e.g. racism, sexism etc etc). The OP hasn't mentioned any of those things, so getting a lawyer involved is pointless. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-g…

  • baskinghobo on 10/10/2020 - 14:08

    This post reminds me of this scene from Malcolm in the middle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yijQRhPvJhQ (part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmchakkq_ig&t=1m4s (part 2)

  • Baghern on 10/10/2020 - 14:12

    I've worked for 2 of the Big 4 before.

    Its extremely hard to get sacked/let go, or have poor performance written down.

    The possible reason for micromanaging you was probably because of your poor performance

    The big 4 are big on work life balance these days.

    Your team maybe an outlier for some reason, but overtime is getting more and more rare, especially where you aren't paid for it.

  • Rkshar on 10/10/2020 - 14:15
    +1

    You should have waited on complaining for a month.

  • Sidog on 10/10/2020 - 17:31

    Seems like a clear cut open and shut case of unsatisfactory work performance. In this economic climate you'll be lucky to get a job at KFC with that stain on your permanent work record.

  • raiseyoursteaks on 10/10/2020 - 20:33
    +1

    Take this further?? Like you mean get black listed from other hiring managers as well??? Doesn't matter how cringe worthy are you on LinkedIn, people talk about your career will head no where by making enemies. Take it to the chin and try again elsewhere.

  • archiexyz on 11/10/2020 - 10:54
    +1

    Good riddance. Better off not working in a toxic environment.

  • Matt71 on 15/01/2021 - 11:44

    Suppose asking Which Bank? Isn't appropriate lol, but yeah it sucks when a toxic workplace wins..been there, got the t-shirt too…just move forward and do better…as best as you can.

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