Have received an infringement notice for driving at 65 at a 60 zone. I know it has exceeded the speed limit. However, somewhere I remember someone saying that there is 10% tolerance. Is my understanding correct?
Infringement driving at 65 at 60 zone
chrismatt on 28/11/2020 - 15:37
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No, this doesn't happen.
Keep in mind that car Speedos are out (over) by 5-10 kph so if they got you at 65 your Speedo was reading 70-75.
Is this still true if the 'speedo check' is accurate?
I got clocked doing 45 in a 40 zone right before an onramp for a motorway marked 80.
Wasn't by a copper, was by one of those mobile utes.
I think the days of common sense and giving someone leeway are gone. It's all about generating profit for the state.
Think of them like parking inspectors. If you get caught, doesn't matter if you're just a few minutes over, you're getting fined.
It's all about generating profit for the state.
You can say that all you want, but speed limits have been too flexible for too long. It’s time to get serious about obeying the road rules for safety. An unfortunate side effect of that is that cameras are there to ensure drivers are UNDER the limit.
Urban speed limits are too high, reducing them will make cities more livable for people outside cars, which is better for everyone.
I've never seen more speeders since I moved to Australia. Thinking about it its because our roads are like this back home. Here I've noticed whenever the motorway variable speed signs go down to 80 only about 15% follow the speed, when it's down to 60 literally no-one. It's now often dangerous for me to drop down myself.
your comments made me wonder where have you been living all these years???
Not sure which state you are but these days mostly 40kph in inner cities suburbs and 50kph for those of no signage found.
Used to be 10kph more…
not looking to argue but just to think lower to above speed… no different take a bike… why bother to let Ozzies so called driving
I knew my comments would get negged.
Lowering speed limits to 30 in built up environments in areas where you don’t need to have through traffic has benefits. The whole idea is to discourage motor vehicle use in those areas and make alternatives, like cycling, more attractive which in turn reduces congestion. Funnily enough it often makes negligible difference to travel times because the average is already much slower than posted limits.
I think Victoria has a couple of trial sections at 30, just back streets where cars shouldn’t be ‘driving through’. 30 is only slow when you are cocooned in the drivers seat, it’s not slow when 2 tonnes of noisy smelly metal is driving past pedestrians on the roadside.
Unfortunately we have trained our drivers that the posted limit is how fast you should expect to drive and so everyone gets frustrated when traffic is slower.
Was it a school zone? Zero tolerance on those. They won't give any lenience. It doesn't matter if it was a pupil free day.
If there was actual interest in safety over revenue, we already have the ability for GPS to monitor speed and nag the driver if they go over. Make that mandatory and penalties harsh for disabling it. And make it really annoying. "Slow down speedy!" "Overspeed! Overspeed! Overspeed!". There are still some sociopaths that would just get use to it of course but for most people that would be a huge deterent. If there are circumstances where it needs to be turned off for safety you could have a limited pause button. Say half an hour every week with a need to explain yourself at rego time if it's used regularly.
I almost read it as got infringement as a 65 years old.
The best way to get out of speeding fines is by not speeding.
Yup. All those that cry ‘ReVeNuE rAisINg!’ Seem to forget its a voluntary tax.
Or that they regularly go over the limit and get caught that once in a thousand times. Or, they get done for 105 in a 100, rounded down from 108, with a speedo that was showing 114. ReVeNuE rAiSiNg!
Another way to avoid speeding fines is to not get caught speeding
Here's what to write - template letter that needs to be posted. all details are there.
Your Name
Your Address
DateOfficer in Charge
Traffic Camera Office
GPO Box 1916
Melbourne 3001To Officer in Charge
I am writing in relation to the infringement of speeding on DD mmm yyyy.
Given my good driving record and circumstances I kindly request an official warning for this infringement.
The details of the infringement are: obligation number xxxxx and Infringement number xxxxxxx. My Driving Licence number is xxxxxx.
I accept that at no time is speeding is acceptable. I am not making an excuse for speeding and I accept responsibility and the consequences for doing so.
I understand that the severity of speeding and will adjust my driving to be more careful in the future. On this day, I had a momentary lapse of good judgement.
Given my good driving record over the last 2 years, I would like to apply for an official warning for this infringement.
Yours faithfully
Namebest outcome - you get a caution and no fine. worst outcome, you still pay the fine. do not need to go to court etc.
worth doing. i've the letter successfully twice before in the last 7 years - once for my partner accidently driving an unregistered vehicle whilst i had to go overseas at short notice for a funeral and once for doing 65 in 60 zone.
good lucj
Yep do this.
Worked for me doing 47 in 40 zone. 18 year good driving record btw.
I walk into coles and bite 10% off a mars bar, bananna, take a wing off a cooked chook. Its fine, i just tell them I heard it from a friend that its ok to do this. They let me off everytime.
What the flying fk. 2 things are wrong about this comment. 1. Not the right analogy. 2. Never gonna try mars bar in coles again :D
Tell them it's Black Friday and you're entitled for at least 20% discount
Is there reason why everyone on OzBargain gets up on their high horses and act like they NEVER EVER go over, even by 1kmh?
Just read the comments placed by 'Euphemistic', it's just cringe-worthy.See, now you're just showing your ignorance. Speeding is optional. There are already systems in place that a driver has at their disposal to assist them in not breaking this road rule. It's already heavily geared towards giving the benefit of the doubt to the driver.
First of all is leeway. They already give you 2~3km of leeway. Additionally, by ADR 18/03, a speedo can have an over reading of the speed (100 displayed, 94 actual). There are vehicle system, such as cruise control to assist. Some vehicles even have speed limiters. Lastly, there is the review system, where by a driver with a good record of doing the right thing can ask for leniency of low level speeding infringements.
NEVER EVER go over, even by 1kmh?
By the most part, once you take all these factors into consideration, speeding is a wilful act (knowingly speeding), or a negligent act (lack of concentration). Going over by 1km/h will already be negated by the 2~3km/h leeway. Next, being booked for 1km/h over means that they clocked you at around 4km/h over the limit. Since speedos cannot read less than actual and have a tolerance of at least +6km/h, this added to the leeway, you are now somewhere up around the 10km/h indicated speed on your cars display.
So, if my car's speedo says I am doing 101km/h in a 100km/h zone, leeway and ADR 18/03 help to make sure I am still under that 100km/h actual. If I do get a ticket for 101km/h in a 100km/h zone, the fact is that I was probably closer to doing 115km/h according to the vehicles speedo. So, that's not "just a little bit over", it's a lot. So what is speeding? Negligence or wilful? Either way, it's optional.
We've all done it doesn’t make it ok
Did I break the speed limit today? Probably. Did I intend to stay under the limit - absolutely.
Thing is, if I get caught I’m not gonna cry foul. I try to stay below the limit despite enjoying driving with a heavy right foot. I make my choices and live with the consequences, learned my lesson with a licence suspension many moons ago.You won’t see me posting here about getting a speeding, red light or parking fine wondering if I can get out of it.
These fines are not ‘revenue raising’. They are a penalty for breaking a rule. Know the rules, make your choices.
It's not about high-horses. It's about being a adult and taking responsibility for your actions.
just clock the speedo 10% lower , never get a fine then.
I got the feeling my 13 points score is going to reduce a lot quicker since our government is running out of money and this is the only way for a quick revenue rising.
You losing points and government revenue are linked in so much that you choose to continue to break the law.
Wait and see how many millions of infringement recorded in the coming year and you realise how much the government pocked. Don't think the infringement will stop drivers speeding.
Please keep speeding. You're paying for my road repairs
You control how much the government raises from fines.
I certainly hope you lose all your points and pay many fines. It will ensure the roads are safer.
I got the feeling my 13 points score is going to reduce a lot quicker
You said it, not me
Need a hug?
I certainly hope you lose all your points and pay many fines. It will ensure the roads are safer.
That’s not exactly how it works. Perhaps someone who pays many fines will lose a licence which would make the roads safer.
you gain demerit points, you don't lose them
Have you considered not speeding?
They can ping you for being 1km/h over the limit. There is no 10% tolerance.
Yeah, nah it's a +10 km/h tolerance rule.
This means you can do 70 in a 60, 60 in a 50, or my personal favourite 50 through the 40 school zone.
Let me know how you go?
This is wrong both ethically and legally.
No just don't creep
In WA there is no margin. If you're over you're over.
the even more annoying part is, road engineers design roads to be 'safe' at 10km/hr above the posted speed limit because they know people are going to speed a bit…
i.e. The standard for a 50km/hr signposted road is to design it to the 60km/hr standards. At least in Qld anyway.
Technically this should mean, since a government agency responsible for road design / safety admits by design it is safe at 10km/hr over, that they shouldn't fine you until you hit 11km/hr over… but they don't adhere to this.I think the best policy would be a greater tolerance then a heftier fine once you exceed it.
I.e. 0-10km/hr over - nothing. 11km hour, start at 3 point level etc.The old 'every k over is a killer' slogan… is proven bulldust by their own road manuals
Plus the standards are older now, new cars with modern safety systems, tyres, etc are much safer than the cars that were around when the road manuals were written.
Then we have most cars where the speedo reads faster than you are actually going - its safety margin compounded in top of safety margin
50kph was brought in to protect pedestrians by reducing stopping distances.
40 has been deemed more suitable around high activity areas. I’d like to see suburban streets dropped to 40 so kids can be safer outside.
Speeds on other than highways are too high for safety of non drivers.
Absolutely because of the mentality that it's ok to go a few k's over.
In SA schools zones used to be 25, not sure if they changed to 40 or not
You have missed my point. I work in the industry - I know how the standards work.
All speeds, not just 50 to 60km/hr are designed to be safe at 10km/hr higher for all road projects.For example 100km/hr signposted roads are designed to 110km/hr safety standards, 70km/hr signposted are designed to the 80km/hr standards etc.
This is a fact - there are standards that require things like the visibility distances, turning lane lengths, markings and signage, number of accesses (driveways), for how built up the area is and volumes etc etc.
What I am telling you is the experts, that I work in the industry with, determine that is safe at 10km/hr higher. Especially with modern cars that brake for pedestrians automatically and pre-pops the bonnet for extra safety again.
The problem is they know people regularly drive faster and do dumb things like chat away and use their phone, drive tired, etc and other distractions… so they have to shave the extra 10km/hr off for an additional safety buffer because people don't follow the rules and actually drive to the signposted limit.This should not mean they fine you for being in the buffer they have built into the system - they should hit you harder for being over the buffer. This construct would still be the disincentive to not drive at excessive speeds, and means you don't have to spend all your time staring at your odometer instead of just driving safety.
My point to the OP is therefore valid.
There IS such thing as a buffer in the road design, and the road OP was on was likely designed or determined to be safe at 70km/hr standards by a road design engineer. IMO if OP was otherwise fully alert, not on the phone, in a roadworthy car, OP should not be fined for the slight slip into 65km/hr because it is likely OP was driving fairly safely as per road design manuals. However OP should have the book thrown at them more heavily for 71km/hr at that would discourage people from speeding dangerously.It’s not the road design or the vehicle design that’s the problem. It’s the squishy bit hanging onto the steering wheel. That’s the bit that needs lower limits. Make a road as safe as you can - two lane freeway - and you still get crashes.
Lowering the speed limit even further, removing the ‘buffer’ and other measures are the most effective way to reduce injury until the robots take over the wheel. Slower speeds give more reaction time and reduce impact energy.
What if the road was full of people going at 50km/hr and 70km/hr in a 60 zone? Safe?
I am always very careful to not do more than 141km.
Well, unless I have a good reason to…In NSW if you are pinged for 65 in a 60 zone then you were probably doing 71. I'm not sure how it works in Vic
Be happy to live in Victoria. The man with foggy glasses does not see meth until is takes a snow plough.
You get3, in the shunshine state the unmarried ruler only gives you 2 . And checking your direction on your mobile while cycling is only a grand.Honestly, why wrestle with what's already happened? You were going over a speed limit. Cop the ticket, pay it, learn from it. Don`t go over speed limit next time.
Financial penalty for these things is meant to teach you something, not make you look for loopholes.Victorians; Google "Victoria police official warning" for the page on vicpol website detailing the criteria and process to ask for a minor speeding fine (alleged speed is <10kph over limit) to be withdrawn, I have done it successfully 5x over the past decade for myself and others.
I have no idea if other states have something similar
Ask for changing it to official warning if you are first time offender in VIC.
At least there's no GST…
Changing it to an official warning is easy. Just admit you are wrong and you will do better, then say as my driving history has been good and i have not received any tickets within the last few years, i would like to see if this can be changed to an official warning", send it in and done.
What I'm getting from the comments is that there is no point looking at your speedo because it's massively inaccurate. Just go what the other cars are going at and hope they get caught and not you.
Out of curiosity, how do you find out the true speed your car is travelling? I believe your speedometer isn't accurate. SatNav? Google maps? those speed check things on highway?
Use a GPS and find a flat, straight section of road and go for a drive. A phone speedo app should be close enough. (We have a special GPS test unit at work for checking the calibration of truck speed limiters, but I think that would be over kill for what you need it for.)
Alternatively, if you know an exact distance on that same road between two points, (cant have bends or curves in it) you can time yourself and throw it into an equation and it will spit out your actual speed (or close enough). Don't do it from a standing start though. Get up to the speed you want to check, hit the cruise control and get someone else to time you.
Car Speedos are always 2-3km/h out, it is deliberately done like this due to error tolerances in the equipment.
Same with why they give you 2 speeds on the fine, one which is the speed clocked and one which subtracts a % which is the error tolerance on the equipment.
"But officer, have a look at this Ozbargain thread, particularly the comment of "needforspeed" and "commies4eva", I should be alright…"
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Yes so if its a fixed speed camera they give you an allowance of over 2 but if its a mobile one such as in a car then they give you a 3km allowance. So if you are doing 65 minus 3 or 2 depending then you are still speeding. The difference in that 1km makes a big difference on whether you are getting 1 demerit point or 3 added and the bigger fine.