At What Point Would You Be Comfortable with Dropping $60K into a Car ?

RobotWizard on 06/01/2021 - 02:33

Evening ladies and gents,

I am in mid 20's and have been a massive fan of performance cars since my teen years and have owned a few good cars in past, I would blindly spend money on cars or parts without thinking about consequences, I currently own a car which would have market value of between $20K-$25K if I sold it.

I recently became obsessed with CLA45 AMG and the ones I like are between $60K - $80K.

I do currently own a place and have some savings aside but think it's still a stupid decision to spend all this money on car and not on investment property but would love to hear your feedback ! at what point of life you would be comfortable with spending that sort of money on (High Yield Investment) Car ?

Financial Car

Comments

    • Seraphin7 on 06/01/2021 - 10:12
      +35

      That is perhaps the most ridiculous piece of advice ever written.

      • Yawhae on 07/01/2021 - 23:33
        +4

        No difference to the advice on buying diamonds and we could all agree cars are far more useful then diamonds.

      • chansc on 08/01/2021 - 07:43

        Not sure why this is ridiculous.

        If 30% of your annual income = 60K, this means your salary has to be at least 200K to buy a 60K car. Not sure about other people but if you earn 200K a year, can't see the problem of owning a 60K car.

        if 15% of your annual income = 60K this means your salary has to be 400K.

        I am interested to see your view on how much you should earn before you are comfortable to buy a 60K car.

        • Viper8 on 08/01/2021 - 14:19
          -2

          So you're saying you should buy a 60k each and every single year?
          If you were to keep the car for 5 years, that would mean buying a 300k car on a 200k (before tax) salary.
          That is just plain outrageous.

          • chansc on 08/01/2021 - 14:47
            +2

            @Viper8: When did I say buy one every single year? My comment was just answering Op's question "At What Point Would You Be Comfortable with Dropping $60K into a Car". The Op doesn't ask how often one should buy a car.

            • Viper8 on 08/01/2021 - 15:21

              @chansc: When did you state how often? You didn't. So it reads like this is to be done each and every year.
              If it's only every few years, then how often would change the %. Stating just the % without the frequency is useless.

              • chansc on 08/01/2021 - 15:32

                @Viper8: How often you change a car depends on many factors. One major factor is how many KM you travel per year.
                How could I state the frequency without knowing the details? In addition the OP didn't ask about how often to change a car.

                My comment was just a general guideline on how much one should spend when buying a car. It's not a single % and you can use the lower % in the range if you need to change the car very often and on a tight budget. It all depends on Op's circumstances. In any case I still believe it's a useful guideline.

                If you look at other posts in this topic, many of them also don't specify the frequency!

                • Viper8 on 08/01/2021 - 16:46

                  @chansc: If you can't specify thde frequency because of various factors, the same could be said about staying the price.

                  • chansc on 08/01/2021 - 17:01
                    +1

                    @Viper8: You can specify a range as a general recommendation for both the price and the frequency. However ,the fact that the OP only asks about the price, I can't see the reason I need to provide any comments on the frequency. It's up to the OP to determine how often he/she wants to buy a car.

    • Mitch889 on 07/01/2021 - 21:46
      +1

      30% 😂

      Definitely sounds like you live at home.

    • Sad Dino on 08/01/2021 - 12:43

      Is this the new "a diamond ring should be 3 months salary"?

    • The-Kremlin on 08/01/2021 - 23:43

      You're pretty much saying 99% of people should have cheaper cars than what they have.

    • gezza90 on 12/01/2021 - 12:21

      I can see why you were negged as most people are driving cars well above 30% their gross salary.

      I agree with your statement. In terms of making 'good' financial decisions, general rule of thumb should be spending no more than 10-15% of your gross salary. If car is a high priority and you'll be spending a lot of your time on the road, in other words, reliability and creature comforts are very important, then it should be ok to spend somewhere around 20-30%. This does not factor in the type of car being purchased because there are 25yr old Mercedes S-Class and newish corolla that can be purchased say at $18k budget. The sweet spot for purchasing second hand cars is 5-9 years but entirely depends on the make/model and common faults.

      Scenario 1:
      I know of a person who earns $190k/year, does not own a property, is single and easily managed to save up $82k to purchase a new CLA Mercedes 4 years ago. That car is now 60,000km and sale price is now $35-40k (>$40k loss). Now let's assume depreciation loss claimed on own company and services, loss per year is $8k. if you ask me, that's a lot just to drive a new CLA mercedes.

      Scenario 2:
      In 2016 the same person purchases a used 2013/14 Audi A3 Sedan for $30k with all optional extras and perfect service history. That would now be worth $23k ($7k loss) and assuming some intensive maintenance/repairs, after 4 years, the out of pocket yearly expense after claims would be $2k.

      But this rule of thumb does not factor in the emotional needs of the buyer and purely looking at it from a financial perspective. If OP is set on CLA, I'd recommend a second hand CLA with perfect service history, good trim configuration at the $40k mark. But don't take my word for it. Always for your research on common faults and major service costs which could be just around the corner…

  • FoxJump on 06/01/2021 - 07:32
    +3

    The first car I bought was $50k. Yolo!

    • SgtBatten on 09/01/2021 - 10:14
      +1

      I've never bought a car. two hand-me-downs in and going strong.

  • EightImmortals on 06/01/2021 - 07:36
    +2

    When I NEEDED a good quality car to lsat me a long time and B) I had the cash to pay for it without affecting my overall financial position too much.

    "I recently became obsessed with CLA45 AMG …"

    And I would NEVER buy based on emotion (unless I was a zilionaire and the money meant nothing).

    • bmerigan on 07/01/2021 - 23:27
      +19

      If you don't use emotion you'll end up with a Camry.

      • EightImmortals on 08/01/2021 - 07:15
        +4

        Good solid car that!

        • ankor on 09/01/2021 - 12:24

          I think a few a fair few Camry owners have tested this statement, judging by the usual bump on the left rear bumper and the scratches on the left and right front bumper of every third Camry I see.

      • daleyboy79 on 08/01/2021 - 09:28
        +1

        Dam straight ya will … got the wife a new hybrid camry last yr for 35k … its a bloody good car

      • RobotWizard on 08/01/2021 - 10:08

        That's probably what the future holds for me

      • netjock on 08/01/2021 - 11:22
        +2

        Camry would probably last 20 years, 1.5k a year + servicing costs.

  • mskeggs on 06/01/2021 - 07:57
    +18

    The first car I bought was $1500 on a $30k income. The last car I bought was $4400 on considerably higher. So I’m not your target market!
    But I have spent over $60k on overseas holidays in the last ten years, as that is what I spent my discretionary budget on. If you are disciplined otherwise, and funding it from savings it isn’t absurd, if you are frugal otherwise.

    Once you have a level of financial security, amassing cash is just a hobby like stamp collecting. But reading between the lines, it sounds like $60k is still a lot for you, and you realise it isn’t a good financial decision, but you are hoping somebody will say go ahead?

    • netjock on 08/01/2021 - 11:23
      +4

      But I have spent over $60k on overseas holidays in the last ten years

      6k a year isn't that much.

    • bad hombre on 09/01/2021 - 18:00

      Have to agree with you comment in relation to "Once you have a level of financial security, amassing cash is just a hobby". I know a person that pretty much lives in a mortgage free multimillion dollar home and has plenty of cash/investments (not funded by loans) and still doesn't own a car, let alone a $60k car. His philosophy is he would rather invest that money to make more money.

      I remember him saying to his wife a few years ago that he would sell his car and be able to buy 5 cars from they money he would make in 12 months. That's exactly what he did.

      Risk vs reward. Although others I know lost significant amounts during the covid market crash - basically margin loans got called very quickly and back to basically nothing.

      If you are happy with doing it go for it - everyone situations, spending habits and definition of success/happiness is different. As for me, I am taking a more minimalist approach to life.

  • Bourb on 06/01/2021 - 08:08
    +2

    You already own Property, and have savings, so go for it! Although for an expensive car, the best plan is to let someone else take the depreciation hit, and buy an 'almost new' second hand car ;)

    • Ghost47 on 06/01/2021 - 20:04

      Where did they say they own property?

      Oh wait, nevermind, was looking for the word "property" but they said "place".

  • 2jzzzz on 06/01/2021 - 08:11
    +14

    It's not even a proper AMG. Get a 2012-2015 C63

    • [Deactivated] on 09/01/2021 - 03:50
      +5

      Get a Mercedes that is almost a decade old they said…

      What could possibly go wrong?

    • Aceboy884 on 10/01/2021 - 08:15

      CLA are poor people AMG. My mate works for Mercedes and he said the drive train is no different from a Golf.

      A good car, but if you want it for the drive. Just buy a golf top end instead

  • Headless on 06/01/2021 - 08:23
    +1

    Lease it through salary sacrifice, then get a newer model in 3 years

    • bmerigan on 07/01/2021 - 23:30
      +8

      Buying a new car every 3 years is an even less sensible financial decision.

      • Headless on 08/01/2021 - 09:14
        -2

        Lease, not buy

        • WhyAmICommenting on 08/01/2021 - 15:39
          +4

          Still costs money

          • ankor on 09/01/2021 - 12:26
            -1

            @WhyAmICommenting: A lot of money.. Even with today's market, salary sacrificing just seems stupid when you can just pay it all in cash upfront.

          • Headless on 09/01/2021 - 19:08

            @WhyAmICommenting: Agreed, but at least you get the best years of the car and hand it back when depreciation drops 40% ;D

            • blurrybird on 10/01/2021 - 11:19
              +2

              @Headless: what am I missing here?

              Autopia - Tesla Model 3 - salary sacrificed over 3 years:
              Monthly cost: $2100
              Total cost to me over 3 years: $75000
              "Tax Savings" over 3 years: $18500 (factored into monthly cost apparently)
              Running Costs over 3 years: $17000 (factored into monthly cost apparently)
              Residual: $53000

              Total + Residual = $128000

              They will probably buy it back off me after 3 years for the residual (or a bit less meaning out of pocket expenses) and leaving me with no car; having spent 75 = $75k for the privilege? When compared to a traditional car loan, this doesn't seem to make any sense:

              Tesla Financing - Tesla Model 3 - 3 year term - 40% balloon - 2.99%:
              Monthly cost: $1850
              Total cost to me over 3 years: $66500
              "Tax savings" over 3 years: $0
              Running Costs over 3 years: $17000
              Residual: $40500

              Total + Residual + Running Costs = $124000

              Does this just not work for electric cars due to the $0 fuel and minimal maintenance costs?

    • plastic spoon on 10/01/2021 - 23:40

      This is actually really good advice because you can have the car only while it's under new car warranty. It's a great way to get a fun car without losing of a big chunk of your life savings.

      Better still you can get used to seeing that slice of every pay cheque disappear and you can realise that maybe you don't want to spend that much again.

      Forget the haters, the CLA45s is a fun car. Have fun, make dumb decisions. This is one way you can do it and then get out.

  • brendanm on 06/01/2021 - 08:27
    +2

    Use the $60k as a deposit on an investment property.

  • boomramada on 06/01/2021 - 08:47
    +14

    If you are single, already owning a house, earning 100K+ go for it.

  • morse on 06/01/2021 - 08:55
    +1

    Depends on what the place you own is like. If you can see yourself living there long term i.e. if you had a family or something you wouldn’t have to upsize/upgrade, then fair enough to buy the car if that’s what you’re into. If it’s a starter property and you’ll need to upgrade later or are planning an early retirement, you’d probably be wiser to invest in shares or property to set yourself up for the future.

    • RobotWizard on 08/01/2021 - 10:13

      That is a really good advice, I am planning to upsize and get a bigger house in near future so that's something to think about.

  • FlipCrank on 06/01/2021 - 08:55
    +3

    This is all about priorities. Most people seem to be fine spending thousands on phones and computers year on year. The problem is that cars are already crazy expensive, especially in Australia. 60k doesn't get you a V8 Mustang, which appear to be super common these days. You won't even get a measly BMW 3 series with that amount of money.

  • Fredfloresjr on 06/01/2021 - 09:00
    +7

    Go for it. YOLO.

    • Smol Cat on 08/01/2021 - 14:57
      +1

      Going off some of the opinions around it, you’d think the saying is ‘YOLF(orever)’ and people can take their savings and bargain off to the grave.

      There’s nothing wrong with spending on something that makes you happy and enjoy life for a bit every once in a while if you can afford it.

  • Nugs on 06/01/2021 - 09:17
    +2

    haven't yet, and likely never will.
    I have always been interested in cars but just not prepared to spend like that (unless someone knows a good A9X for that money….)
    Have had plenty of enjoyment from considerably cheaper cars (& bikes).
    Most expensive vehicle bought was for $34k and still have it 20 years later, second most expensive a bike for $23k, everything else has been max $15k.
    Most recent was $400 nine months ago, good to have something you don't care where you park it
    .

  • redfox1200 on 06/01/2021 - 09:25
    +2

    i would be comfortable dropping 60k of investment income into the boot of my car, then using that money to buy more assets

    • WhyAmICommenting on 08/01/2021 - 15:39

      I would be very uncomfortable with 60k in the boot but I guess better than not

  • belesci on 06/01/2021 - 10:08

    If i know that money i spent is going to get me more motivated to work harder.
    When i was you g i had a performance car and the drive home from work was the best stress relief.
    It’s worth it anytime in your life you just need to know your limits, calculate how long you want to keep it for etc (depreciation)

    Ps i would go for a A35 AMG- GLA is more of a small SUV style.

  • Porker on 06/01/2021 - 10:09
    +12

    If you want the car, buy it.

    I bought a $50k car when i was mid 20s too and quickly learnt that it wasn't a good purchase for achieving my long-term goal. I ended up selling it 2 years later, but it was a fun 2 years.

    I put the experience to a learning lesson, such that now I believe I am more financially smart. I know in myself that if I didn't buy it, I'd be constantly shopping for it and looking for sales etc and preventing me from moving forward (past it).

    I would tell my 20 year old self not to buy it, but I know he would and even if he didnt have money, he have found a way to do so anyway.

    • RobotWizard on 08/01/2021 - 10:17
      +2

      I have friends who have had to do the same thing but lost quite a substantial amount of money because of a decision they made, one of my friend I know had to sell his car at loss after only 1 year and pay couple grand out of his pocket to financial company.

  • cille745 on 06/01/2021 - 10:27
    +2

    Depends what category you fit into. If you own your own property (and I mean actually own, not the bank), then you're most likely on a very high income and a 60k car in cash isn't really much of a big deal. The general rule is at most, can spend up to 50% of one years wage for a car that'll last you 10 years, so unless you're making 120K+ I wouldn't consider it.

    If your parents have payed for your property, which you being in your mid 20's isn't out of the question, I'd stay away from a 60K car like the plague.

    If you have a mortgage on your current place I wouldn't consider it either. There's no right or wrong answer here, really just depends on your income and assets

    • Mitch889 on 07/01/2021 - 21:49
      +1

      Where does this general rule come from?

    • backupper1 on 07/01/2021 - 23:36

      Consider Pre tax vs Post tax/in hand salary
      120k=88k
      175k=120k

      So using 50% salary rule, must be on at-least 175k per annum to buy a 60k car.

  • life is suffering on 06/01/2021 - 11:11
    +1

    depends

  • Tiredman on 06/01/2021 - 11:31
    +1

    I tend to keep my cars to a maximum 3-5% of my networth. Anything more than that, i feel silly. I won't go out buying a certain car unless i can afford a few of them without even blinking.

    • polishka on 09/01/2021 - 15:08

      Net worth including super or excluding?

  • tsunamisurfer on 06/01/2021 - 11:41
    +17

    I did it for an Audi Q5, never thought I would do such a thing.

    Previous to that I had 2 cars totalling $15k in value that covered me for 23 years.

    My second car was a Hyundai Excel which I didn't know was second hand from a rental company, so I put $5k a year aside thinking it would bomb out in about 3 years, it lasted 15 with only an alternator as a major problem of the car that whole time.

    At the end of that 15 years, I had $75k in the car fund and I had automatically thought of keeping half and getting a newer car.

    At that stage I had a moment of weakness as the house was paid off, I was working in Oil and Gas, we just had our first child, and we have saved and sacrificed for so long we thought why not get something nice.

    It was a mistake, the car is unreliable, the badge got old in a month, plus I am just not a car type of person, if someone gave me the option of having the Excel back I would take it.

    Or more realistically I would happily go back to an i30.

    • brendanm on 06/01/2021 - 18:31
      +2

      Q5 is safe at least, if we want to find an upside to that story.

      • Keplaffintech on 10/01/2021 - 13:11

        almost any new car is equally as safe. E.g. a Kia SUV

    • ruthlesskid on 07/01/2021 - 20:14
      +3

      Your story resonates with mine. Even down to the models of cars Q5. although I am yet to regret my choice.
      As others have pointed out already, it depends.
      As a happily married parent with two lovely kids, a stable average job, my perception of the world is far from my mid 20's.
      All my cars were <$10k for the last 15 years, they were mostly reliable and cheap transports for me to get to study and work.
      Two years ago, as I had the fund to purchase a new car, I wanted to treat my family something I never had growing up - a nice car.
      Yes, paying $65K was a significant amount from our offset, and I know the car will be 1/5 of its price after 5 years, but the safety, quality, looks and pleasure of driving the car was something I also could not find on Toyota and alike.
      As I stated previously in my other comment.

      Do I regret my decision on a new Q5? Not really, I thoroughly enjoyed the new car. Would I buy another Audi? Probably will consider another European, even though they can be endless money pits. I think I have made enough sacrifice being a cheapskate ozbargainer the majority of my life. I started driving on $500 dollar cars. Always owned <$10000 cars before my 30s.

      • tsunamisurfer on 08/01/2021 - 11:18
        +2

        The drive is good, the car is comfortable to be in, it looks good but unfortunately in my own experience only, it has been unreliable with several issues.

        Yes this was one of my YOLO moments as we have sacrificed (eg no holidays for 5 years) to pay everything off.

    • Headless on 08/01/2021 - 09:16

      What did you buy?

      • garethdlewis on 08/01/2021 - 09:43
        +5

        Gonna guess it was an Audi Q5 :-)

  • afah0447 on 06/01/2021 - 12:41

    Dave Ramsay (the American guy the Barefoot Investor pulled most of his ideas from) recommends the maximum you should spend on a car should equal no more than 50 per cent of your annual salary.

    • whitelie on 07/01/2021 - 18:41

      I reckon that's a pretty fair price point.

    • netjock on 08/01/2021 - 11:39
      +3

      Gross or net?

      Just once every 10 years or year in year out?

      • polishka on 09/01/2021 - 15:10
        +1

        Ramsey usually talks in post tax money when listening to him for entertainment purposes.

  • Terbo on 06/01/2021 - 15:42
    +3

    The conundrum is: more passionate about it when young but less affordable / Less passionate about it when you get older but more affordable (until midlife crisis kicks in again). If you are happy/can afford to lose 20 - 30K over your ownership period + extra running, repair and insurance costs of a $100K (new, euro) car then it doesnt seem to be a terrible spend if thats how you get your thrills. People spend more on o/s holiday, boats, vans, 2nd car that get dont get used much, big house with empty rooms costing more in mortgage payments, $200 pw up the wall at the pub. But shouldnt be a large % of your net wealth/income eg if I spend $200 pw on the car then I should also spend $200 pw on investing as well…

    • RobotWizard on 08/01/2021 - 10:24
      +1

      That's what I've been telling myself, I can already feel that things I have been so passionate about seems to be slowly dying, Maybe I can afford it easily in 20-25 years but then will I be able to enjoy it ? At the same time I don't wanna go broke buying something I can't afford haha

      • Terbo on 08/01/2021 - 10:50
        +4

        Its an expense/toy/fun. Life isnt all about working and saving, you must enjoy along the way too. But there is pleasure and there is happiness, one is more short term while the other is a bit deeper. As you get older you find that 'things' may not give the same thrill, while experiences and feelings do. So could you get 90% of the enjoyment/happiness for less money ? Once you buy a car you dont really see it, you sit in it, the novelty wears off and when the scratches, dents and bills come its not as much fun. Others have suggested buying a track car, or a cheaper performance car. Or could you just hire something nice for a weekend every now and then ? If its just the image of driving this car, or you are just caught by the design/shape/marketing/idea of it, then thats going to be fairly short term until the next thing comes along. Assume the purchase will cost you at least $20K (depn, exp), how much more fun could you have with that money, and with who, and for how long ? Or how long does it take you to save that much ? Is it really going to give you that much extra happiness over where you are now in your life, or will it just be another short term pleasure hit ?

  • sgltech on 06/01/2021 - 15:55
    +4

    Before you drop $60,000 on a new car, consider this:

    As far as traditional ‘performance’ vehicles are concerned, see what happened when ABC reporter Craig Reucassel took a Tesla Model S to Sydney’s Eastern Creak Raceway and drag raced against Australia's fastest fuel injected car:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJH8dVAhg&ab_channel=ABCTV…

    The whole auto market is shifting towards electric vehicles, not just for environmental reasons (which is a major bonus), but because they’re also a higher performance investment for the owner because of far lower running and servicing costs over the life of the vehicle.
    MERCEDES CLA 45 AMG vs TESLA MODEL S - Running Costs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtKCJs944r0&ab_channel=Zubai…

    It’s been estimated that by 2030, 90% of all new cars sold will be electric. This means that running and maintenance costs will go down even more for electric vehicles, and will go up for petrol vehicles. Depreciation of petrol vehicles will escalate until you will have trouble selling one second hand. Tomorrow’s kids will think it’s weird that you can’t simply recharge the car at home, and will complain about the noise and petrol fumes in the garage because they have grown up with a better kind of normal.

    I know you love ‘performance cars’, but in these uncertain economic times, ‘performance investments’ might be a higher priority.

    RAC is following the transition closely, and blogs about running costs https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/moving/news-information/el… and about the new offerings in the Australian electric vehicle market.
    Here’s two articles from 17 December 2020 which has some interesting alternatives to consider:
    https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/moving/news-information/ev…
    https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/moving/news-information/ev…

    • brendanm on 06/01/2021 - 18:33
      +7

      It’s been estimated that by 2030, 90% of all new cars sold will be electric

      Hahaha this is a very bold call. Has anyone put any thought into how we are actually going to charge all these electric cars once they are common place? Our electricity grid can barely cope at the moment, they want people to turn their a/c off so as not to overload it.

      • Binchicken22 on 07/01/2021 - 19:25

        Yes exactly, some want to move to 100% renewables by 2030 too, whilst simultaneously increasing the load on the grid by at least double I'd say (don't know how much energy is consumed per day in petrol/diesel but I'd say it's an astronomical amount)

      • AncientWisdom on 07/01/2021 - 20:26
        +2

        You're probably going to be charging your car at times of low load. Also, The future might be self driving electric FLEET cars, not personally owned (or charged).

        • brendanm on 07/01/2021 - 21:20

          Yeah, millions of vehicles charging at night will be low load 🙄. Doesn't matter who owns them, the power comes from somewhere.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2021 - 21:42
        +2

        Exactly, let's do a back of the envelope calculation. Let's say we have 10 million cars that need 10kWhr of electricity a day. Let's be unrealistic and say that charge load is spread evenly across 24hrs. Then you need an additional 4GW (10^3*10^6/24) of generation. Even if you suppose a generous 50% is from rooftop solar it's still not feasible without more generation and grid infrastructure. If you consider the reality the load won't be balanced across 24hrs you're even further up sh1t creek.

        It's constantly getting pounded because the big marketing dollars are behind electric but hydrogen just makes so much more sense from a distribution point of view. If some of the emerging hydrogen extraction processes deliver on improved efficiency and reduced emissions it'll hit big.

        • mskeggs on 08/01/2021 - 17:09
          +5

          You're assuming electric cars need enough energy to travel 3 times further than current cars do. A Tesla driven the average needs about 3.6kWh per day.
          We already have substantial unused grid capacity and substantial unused generation capacity, especially at night, and routinely in the middle of the day.
          But even if it was 4GW, it still isn't a big deal. 4GW is literally 2 power stations, not a huge ask over 10 years.
          And Australia is installing over 2GW of solar each year anyway.

          So, in summary, no creek to be stuck up.

          Hydrogen has a few benefits in special situations where electric won't cut it, but it is less proven, so far more costly, and would require substantial infrastructure changes before it could begin to be used. Electric uses the existing infrastructure as a starting point, so can start today.

      • mskeggs on 08/01/2021 - 16:55
        +4

        A Tesla model 3 with a normal battery has a range of 490km with a 54kWh battery.
        ABS says the average Aussie car does 1000km a month.
        If you put a 6kW solar array on your house, it will produce an average of 24kWh per day of electricity, for about $6000.
        If the car is plugged in 4 days a month it will receive enough power for average use.
        So you can power it with literally zero upgrade to the electricity grid.

        What about insert special case where people do lots of kilometres or cannot charge their car renewably?
        Then the car can be charged every night when the grid is virtually empty, again with zero impact on power infrastructure.
        It's just not that big a deal. Adding a new house to the grid requires 600kWh a month of electricity generation, but there is no scare mongering that building houses will flatten the electricity grid.

        • brendanm on 08/01/2021 - 17:30

          Yes, going off perfect case scenarios is a great way to plan infrastructure 🙄

          You are assuming people have their cars at home to use their solar, most don't.

          You are assuming most will have solar, they don't. Even if they do, they need to leave the car at some, and only charge it while the sun is out, over 2 days.

          Lots of people live in apartments, where they can't have solar, and installing a fast charger can be problematic.

          People renting can't install solar, and may have issues installing charging infrastructure.

          Not having solar, or doing more KMS than average (hot tip, lots of cars do more than the "average" KMS), are hardly special cases.

          • mskeggs on 08/01/2021 - 18:47
            +4

            @brendanm: 90% of cars in 2030 is around 900000 additional vehicles to be charged, adding that again in 2031 etc.
            They need 3.6kwh per day, on average. We can assume less, because the remaining 10% will include a lot of long distance/high mileage cases.
            That is about 3.2GWH of electricity needed. That is less than two traditional power plants, and about twice what was added in solar in 2019.
            And cars charging at night add no strain on the grid, as it is sitting mainly idle after bed time.
            In reality, of course, the first people to move to electric vehicles will be the people who can charge them for free, and the last will be people who drive 500km a day, so there is no rush to accommodate those outliers.

            It truly isn’t a big deal to plan for in 10 years time, and it’s also very likely that adding extra car batteries to the grid will actually give the grid extra capacity.

      • sgltech on 09/01/2021 - 07:58

        If you want to get a better idea of how bold this call isn’t, watch this video:

        Tony Seba: Clean Disruption - Energy & Transportation:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0

        Change happens quickly when technological advancements and business model innovations converge.
        The cost of battery storage is falling fast - making EV’s more affordable, particularly when you can recharge the battery cheaply at home using off-peak power, or energy from PV panels.
        Autonomous vehicles will become commonplace, with their development accelerated by enabling technologies like EV’s, high speed computing, and high speed internet with 5G and Starlink.
        When people trust driverless vehicles to take them places, the cost of catching a taxi falls substantially, and Transport as a Service (TaaS) will become more popular than the traditional owner/driver model a much higher percentage of the time, because for many, it becomes feasible and cheaper to not own a vehicle, particularly when there are huge savings when you consider how much vehicle ownership costs.

        The S-curve of electric vehicle technology adoption is well underway, so it really isn’t a stretch to suggest that EV’s will be 90% of the market by 2030.

        • brendanm on 09/01/2021 - 09:18

          Well, some rand.on YouTube said it, so it must be true. Still has nothing to do with what I said about our power grid.

          • sgltech on 09/01/2021 - 17:06

            @brendanm: Your comment seems to suggest that you think people will be charging their EV’s during peak demand, creating an extra load on the grid buying electricity at a time when demand is higher than available supply. What you’re not taking into account is how the wholesale energy trading market works, and the emerging opportunities for profiting as a result of selling stored energy to the grid when the price is high.

            You need to understand that the wholesale price of electricity fluctuates a lot throughout the day, influencing how players in the wholesale energy market buy and sell energy throughout the day - much like trading shares on the stock market. In this chart, you can see how demand influences the wholesale price of energy throughout the day:
            https://www.aemc.gov.au/sites/default/files/Typical%20demand…

            Peaker plant operators make business decisions about when to generate power - choosing to sell power to the grid only when the price is high enough for them to make a profit. It also enables owners of large-scale energy storage to turn a profit by buying power while it is cheap, and selling it while it is expensive, e.g. South Australia’s big Tesla battery has nearly paid for itself already. It has been so successful that there are plans to install one twice as large in Victoria. It’s a win-win, because they can make money while helping to stabilize the grid. So, a new emerging business of energy Storage as a Service (SaaS) is born.

            Now, enter home energy storage like Telsa Powerwall into the marketplace. Consumers get the best bang for their buck investing photovoltaics when they can store energy at home, however, at this point in time, batteries are expensive to buy, and energy retailers need to keep energy pricing calculations very simple for their consumers and don’t pay much for buying energy - particularly when PV generation happens at an inconvenient time, and that often means paying a low price when consumers sell energy back to the grid from photovoltaics or storage at home, so consumers currently only get return on investment for small scale storage - just big enough for domestic needs, and can’t yet profit from energy storage like the players in the wholesale energy market do.

            Now, enter Power Ledger into the market. It utilises enabling technologies such as smart meters and blockchain to open up the wholesale energy trading market to consumers, and will soon allow consumers who own batteries to also turn a profit by selling energy to the grid when demand is high.

            So, the list of reasons why one would buy an Electric Vehicle over a petrol vehicle continues to grow. Not only do owners have a great car that provides clean transport powered by renewable energy with low running costs, they are the most cost effective way to invest in energy storage too - which can also be used to power your home like a Tesla Power wall, and owners will soon be able to leverage these enabling technologies to turn a profit selling energy on the energy trading market when the demand is high.

            To answer your earlier question, the outcome is that mass adoption of Electric Vehicles will allow more people to keep their air conditioners turned on when demand is high because it will be profitable for EV owners to sell their stored electricity to the energy market, and help stabilize the grid in the process. The adoption of electric vehicles will happen very quickly over the next 9 years, and petrol cars will be almost unsellable by 2030, not because they don’t work, but because they just won’t make economic sense any more.

            • brendanm on 09/01/2021 - 17:36

              @sgltech:

              Your comment seems to suggest that you think people will be charging their EV’s during peak demand

              No, it doesn't. It suggests that a massive amount of cars charging in traditional "off peak", will cause "off peak" to no longer be "off peak".

              and petrol cars will be almost unsellable by 2030, not because they don’t work, but because they just won’t make economic sense any more

              Ok

    • backupper1 on 07/01/2021 - 23:46
      -1

      Practical experience of EV ownership is like taking care of an infant. If you drive to highway speeds in a long trip, it constantly cries to drive slower or else won’t be able to reach the next charger.
      Then the stops are far longer and chargers wayy off route, a simple Melb Syd of 12 hours becomes 15-16hours. And that legendary 0-100 time, it’s doable only when battery >90% SoC and ironically the car ‘strongly’ recommends to charge less than 80% for battery life.
      Its better to stick to fossil cars at the moment until EVs mature more.

      • bradenpd on 08/01/2021 - 13:08
        +2

        I'm yet to experience this with my Tesla, though I've only done a couple of trips around 400km each way. Driving along the highway at 110km/h plus, I've never received a message saying I need to drive slower. I dunno where you are, but the chargers between Brisbane and Bundaberg are in great locations, and you'd only need to stop for an hour at most to charge (lunch/dinner stop). Tesla recommend you charge up to 90% daily. I believe in a Tesla the 0-100 time is the same between 75-100%, then it starts slowing down a bit.

        • backupper1 on 09/01/2021 - 09:08

          Try BNE SYD or BNE MEL, the long trip points I mentioned will pop up, and it’s annoying that you pay 100k+ for a performance version of the car and it fails to perform 100% of the time but only delivers under specific circumstances. Commute times definitely add up too due to charge times and you cannot choose rest point of your choice but only that which has the charger…. etc etc.
          No ICE car would diminish its performance if fuel levels drop below 75%. I dunno what Tesla you have but for Model 3 performance you can get ‘ludicrous’ mode only when SoC is >90%.
          Even Tesla CEO recommend charging 80% usually and 90% in trips, ICE car won’t say so.
          In reality the EVs are still exotic vehicles which are not completely ready as yet for mass usage. A serious upgrade to battery tech is what can make them practical to the average Joe. They will be eventually but not yet.

          • bradenpd on 11/01/2021 - 09:02

            @backupper1: There are so many chargers between Brisbane to Sydney or Brisbane to Melbourne. If you need to get there in a hurry, you'll fly. If not, you just plan your trip.

            Commute times? No effect on commute times at all. The range on my car is 500km plus, I doubt many people commute 250km each way.

            If my 0-100km/h time drops from 4.4s to 5s, I don't think that's the end of the world. Remember this is a software limitation too so it could be removed in future.

      • ragrum on 18/01/2021 - 02:39

        The current state of the art is a lot better than you've described for the Melbourne to Sydney route. In a 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range, the journey takes a total of 9h27 (8h32 of driving, 0h55 of charging): https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=5f8145ff-16a7-4e6…

    • RobotWizard on 08/01/2021 - 10:27

      I do appreciate you taking up your time for writing this and no doubt electric cars will take over in near future but Tesla doesn't seem like a practical choice specially going for long drives, I'll probably wait few years till we have more charging stations and faster charging times.

      • BenR31415 on 08/01/2021 - 14:35
        +2

        There are plenty of reasons not to get a tesla (build / interior quality, customer service etc) and I'd say that charging on road trips is a disadvantage for non-tesla electric cars with not that many universal fast chargers built out, but considering you can road trip from Sunshine Coast to Adelaide and nearly anywhere in between on tesla's network (and growing), for most people that's surely enough for long drives and road trips.

        If you've got a garage you'll be charging at home for all your day to day stuff, the convenience of not having to visit a petrol station is excellent.

        https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/findus?bounds=-19.26528633524605…

  • lightfoot on 06/01/2021 - 16:08
    +10

    My cousins friend dropped 60k on used BMW and just last month 40k on a Benz. When asked why not invest it or save for a property he said "Cars make me happy". He's 25 and lives on rent.

  • runamuck on 06/01/2021 - 18:26
    +2

    If you can afford it, why not? As others have said, YOLO.

  • Lexan on 06/01/2021 - 19:26

    I'll take one if the car runs free power on solar charged. Save plenty on fuel.

  • Hearthstone on 06/01/2021 - 21:58
    +3

    when 60K is a year of dividend or 5% of my net worth

    • Hangryuman on 08/01/2021 - 12:35
      -1

      my formula is max 1% of my net worth –

      if I recall when Harry Triguboff was worth about $2B he used to drive Bentleys worth about $200K – so that looked like about 0.01% of his net worth

      but frankly my car is actually worth about 0.005% of my net worth

      another calculation I used was the value of my time - how much time I spent in my car as a percentage of my disposable income after tax

      I drive very little so on this calculation the value of my car is about right

      they used to say new cars lost 20% of their value when you drove them off the showroom floor

      a colleague asked for advice on buying a car - I told him 'buy the cheapest car your ego can afford'

      if your ego needs a flashy expensive car for you to feel good about yourself - hey spend up big boy (I won't ask about the size of your pencil)

      in my early days the most popular guy I knew drove a boring old Holden station wagon - which was good because it had room for all the girls that wanted to 'ride' with him

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