There is a sea of red https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD?p=BTC-USD&.tsrc=fin-…
Musk is tweeting Bitcoin is too high.
I put all my savings in Bitcoin because someone here said it was a value store. /s
But seriously why is it crashing this time?
Inb4 buy the dip
This will not age well.
Lol.
Wanna buy my pets.com stock?
Your joke won’t be understood by many young people.
@[Deactivated]: First time believers in items with zero profits. I am waiting for those who argue crypto lending (like share lending to short sellers) is a legit on going source of profits to live off.
Funny how BTC started off as an opportunity of a lifetime for regular folks to buy in at $1, $10, $100, $1000, $10000. Rich people only started looking at it recently.
HFSP
Halal Fully Snack Pack?
garlic and chilli sauce on top
It is a zero sum game. For every person that has made money on Bitcoin and realised their profits, there is a person who has lost out. Its the same with any value store.
The moment people holding it try to take profits, the value declines.
Its more volatile than gold, say, because people have been using gold as a value store for a long time, and the horses are less easily spooked.
Value stores are 90% cultural/psychological. Pacific Islanders used sea shells. Europeans traditionally used gold. They could have used some other precious metal, but gold it was. Why would gold be more valuable than platinum, which is both more rare and more useful? Because thats what people are prepared to pay for it. No other reason. Any inherent reason why Bitcoin is on a tear and Etherium isnt? No.
Bitcoin has unique advantages in that its readily fungible, and has asset protection advantages. No one can take it off you unless they have access to your bitcoin wallet - not your ex-wife, not the government, no one. Turns out that that was an attractive aspect for a bunch of people.
It is a zero sum game. For every person that has made money on Bitcoin and realised their profits, there is a person who has lost out. Its the same with any value store.
Not true. Look at housing market. If you stay in long enough you will make a profit provided there is new source of stupid people willing to take over old positions at higher prices.
One thing Bitcoin has manage to erase is profits to calculate value like P/E ratios. If there is zero earnings I guess with P = 0 or any number it will still be a zero. Just make believe 21m limit is worth something. The fiat currencies people are willing to put in with zero dividends.
Housing generates returns, and so is not a zero-sum game in the sense that gold or bitcoin is. But yes its largely the same. For every realised dollar of gain, there must be a realised loss.
Its the old saying, you haven't made your profit until you've cashed out. But if everyone cashes out…
Does this mean that Tesla cars will be cheaper?
I'm so pissed that my free $20 worth of BTC from this Coinspot Valentine's day deal is now worth so much less!
Could be just consolidating and ready for the next leg up when the USA finally gets their stimulus cheques sorry checks and tax refunds shortly.
Because Elon likes a bit of pump and dump.
Because it’s in a price bubble. The time to sell is probably now!
It has been traditionally, but BTC was legitimised with actual, real corporate investment. It's not a bubble anymore, it's suddenly a legitimate currency.
How many people are actually using it for transactions though and not speculation or trying to avoid capital controls? Because thats what currencies are actually for. Apart from the online druggies and certain niche online services, DLive and so forth, I havent noticed actually buying stuff with it very much.
If anything, the persistent liquidity problems and volatility actually reduce its usefulness as a potential currency.
It’s categorised as an asset not currency by the ATO, it went above the currency threshold years back similar to gold.
I disagree. From what I have heard unless you want to buy a Tesla in the future or illegal drugs it’s still pretty useless as a currency.
Tesla buying up some Bitcoin doesn’t justify the huge price increase - it is most definitely in a bubble. It has gone up 3 times in value this year - the large majority of this is speculation - people trying (and many of them succeeding) in making a quick buck.
Sure it is…. what can I buy with this currency? What can I sell to receive this currency?
Tether had some bad news yesterday:
https://www.ft.com/content/1d3b5027-ce7e-470f-8d7a-866746f80…
“Bitfinex and Tether recklessly and unlawfully covered up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines,” James said.
The investigation found that, no later than mid-2017, Tether “had no access to banking, anywhere in the world, and so for periods of time held no reserves to back Tethers in circulation at the rate of one dollar for every Tether, contrary to its representations.”
Tether is basically what holds up the value of Bitcoin and most other cryptos. If it blows up, so does Bitcoin. Now this settlement will be sold as good news for Tether. Hey, they got a slap on the wrist fine and admitted no wrong doing. That's not how trust in the financial markets works. 'Well, I was blatantly lying and committing fraud before, but now I'm all good!' Yeah, right.
The NYAG has been after Tether for years trying to get a slice of the pie. They bluffed but finally got what they wanted.
I'd say if anything this is the more likely culprit, given the timing of the news and the chart of btcusd.
The Musk tweet was Feb 20, days before this dip occured. It just makes for good click bait in the news.
That and traders doing their thing chasing a broken trend line
Cost of power spike last week in Texas.
I remember back when bitcoin was at a high of $4000 and thinking damn what a waste of money to throw away.
How wrong was I lol!
are you going to make the same mistake again?
But it's too expensive now. Nocoiners are waiting for it to crash so that they can get it cheaper.
Yeah i don't have a house deposit to buy a whole bitcoin now.
I did however have $60,000 back then to invest, instead put it on a house deposit in april 2018.
The irony is real.
I'm not suggesting you do, but you dont need to buy a whole coin. You can hold /trade fractions of a coin.
Musk is tweeting Bitcoin is too high.
Pretty rich coming from him considering the Tesla market cap.
He's also mentioned Tesla is too high in valuation in the past.
There was an article that Musk lost over $19b of his wealth due to Bitcoin and Tesla shares dropping. That is stupidly large number
when you are worth 190billion its not that much.
Unrealised P/L.
Is it insider trading if you purchase Bitcoin with information that you will direct your company to purchase it? Asking for a rich friend.
Securities fraud applies to the trading of registered securities and stocks using non-public information. This market is unregulated.
Take a stupid big number, minus a stupid large number. Its still a stupid big number. He'll be fine.
I'm just glad I offloaded my collection of old RTX 20 series GPU's (circia 2018) at a nice mark up. For once my laziness reaped a profit.
Do any of the coinbois here actually know how Bitcoin works?
You just pour electricity into a black hole and do maths. Some guy who has been missing for years says it is worth heaps.
Hahaha I like this
yes.
It's crashing because you could of purchased 1 btc for 6.5k just in March last year. You can't expect this bubble to go on forever.
It's not the whole reason, but India banning it didn't help. There will be a bit of dumping over the 3-6 months transition period.
Because it's just random gambling and that's how it goes with high-risk "investments". Sometimes crashes, sometimes goes up 20%.
Bitcoin has some intrinsic value because it can be used to avoid controls on cash transactions, e.g. taking cash out of China.
For this reason, it is guaranteed to be legislatively restricted in future - and that will be the thing that causes it to really crash.
In the meantime, like tulip bulb dealers, there is money to be made and lost in the volatile trading. Just don’t be left holding the bag.
Bitcoin has some intrinsic value because it can be used to avoid controls on cash transactions,
People that live in counties where their government suppress their people's financial freedom or because of inflation may use BTC for its network effect. Venezuela, Argentina, Turkey, Nigeria, India, Iran, etc, is only a handful and the list is growing every year.
https://currency.com/iran-hyperinflation-turns-iranians-to-c…
https://www.bitcoinkeyfinder.com/venezuela-and-argentina-wit…
https://news.bitcoin.com/8-countries-stricken-with-rampant-i…
https://www.hngn.com/articles/232767/20201031/bitcoin-adopti…
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/in-nigeria-one-bitcoin-can-c…
e.g. taking cash out of China.
The PRC prefers to use stablecoins.
https://timestampmag.com/2020/08/25/tether-could-be-leading-…
https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-asia-crypto-landscape.…
it is guaranteed to be legislatively restricted in future - and that will be the thing that causes it to really crash
The entire premise of BTC is that it can't be legislatively restricted. Governments can restrict the onramps and offramps in converting fiat to BTC and BTC to fiat, but if you have an economy where you're paid in BTC and spend in BTC, then it's a complete wild west.
Well the government can outlaw trade using it as well if they so wished. They may not be able to stop every transaction in their borders, but they could give it a pretty good go. Which will likely be enough to scare off regular users.
That may not be a death nell for bitcoin or whatever coin is king, if other countries are not doing likewise, and the rest of the world agrees it has value. Then residents of that country could still store wealth there and use it outside their country.
Exactly. Governments are not going to let a currency they can't control be "legal tender" for things like wages and payments. Plus, just like other currencies, most developed nations will require anti-money laundering regulations to be applied to currency movements should the volume of flow become material.
The problem with this argument, is the currency is borderless, so the money just moves to better countries with friendlier crypto laws Just like fiat does. This creates a wealth drain from the countries that outlaw it or otherwise try to stomp it out. It's better for countries to work with it than against it. I think this is the reason it hasnt been banned yet in most places. the smart governments see dollar signs with crypto. Any country who bans or severely limits crypto automatically puts themselves at a disadvantage on the worldwide stage..
@ProlapsedHeinous: But that only makes sense if it has inherent value, it only has agreed value. It's not like countries with anti crypto law would be missing out on using gold or something.
If bitcoin reached the status of a reserve currency like the US dollar, then perhaps your argument would make sense. But nothing would stop the government holding the Bitcoin and prohibiting their citizens.
My problem with your response is that its not important or valuable enough to have that status, and it will never get that that status if most countries outlaw it. If it threatens governments ability to collect taxes, control inflation, and all the other things that fiat currency gives them, then it will still be worth them outlawing even if it has some other value.
I'm not sure that borderless digital currency is that valuable to the world at large. I just think proponents over estimate the desire for the digital currency, because the problems it solves dont bother most people. I can see the attraction in an impoverished country with an unreliable government, or in an overly controlling country like China. But honestly, what advantages does a borderless digital currency give to the average citizen in Australia/US/ Canada/ Japan, EU, etc.
Right.
At this very moment you can be paid in cash and spend in cash, and it is a complete Wild West.
But nearly everyone transacts in a more regulated way because they want to avoid the fines and jail time for avoiding taxes etc.
Bitcoin will be no different.
I am aware of how Bitcoin works and the unique invention of a blockchain ledger, but Bitcoin “investors” should also be aware of how governments use guns to enforce their rules, including rules they might make in the future which could remove bitcoins value as a way to avoid transaction regulations.
Remember, it wasn’t that long ago that the USA enforced a ceiling price for gold under $35 an ounce, because it suited their economic ends.
How long do you think Bitcoin remains legal if it is financially damaging to the state?
Sovereign risk is by far the greatest threat to Bitcoin, and is guaranteed to impact it should the “to the moon” predictions of value occur.
Yes but you can just take a short flight to another country like St Kitts Nevis, and you are free to spend all your money how you see fit. There will always be somewhere else you can go if you have enough crypto
@ProlapsedHeinous: Countries can make laws that cover their citizens actions overseas. So, if outlawed it may prevent you from returning to Australia/wherever, if they deem it a serious enough problem.
If bitcoin is just a currency, and you didnt get rich of speculating in it, then how would you have enough money to go live in St Kitts Nevis permanently?
The entire premise of BTC is that it can't be legislatively restricted.
It absolutely can be legislatively restricted though. Not just onramps and offramps, but owning, trading or even mining can all be made illegal.
I mean if the govt makes it illegal then it's illegal.
Making digital assets illegal doesn't make sense from a revenue point of view.
@whooah1979: How do you figure?
If there is more leakage due to tax avoidance than would be captured by banning it, then it will be done.
This gov gets all transactions over $10,000 reported, so you can bet they are interested in Bitcoin.
Now imagine how China feels.
@mskeggs: All tx are viewable on the public ledger. Follow the bread crumbs and collect the revenue. Easy.
Try that with black-market fiat tx.
@modiika: Anonymous doesn't mean private.
FIBC2019 Elliptic AML / Elliptic Forensics (Elliptic LTD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebOLNjlYiNg
tax
avoidance
Evasion vs avoidance.
At common law, the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion is illustrated
in R v Mears.
32 Gleeson CJ noted:
the difference between the two is simple and clear. Tax avoidance involves using
or attempting to use lawful means to reduce tax obligations. Tax evasion
involves using unlawful means to escape payment of tax. Tax avoidance is
lawful and tax evasion is unlawful.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-cryptocurrency-ban-…
India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets
@trapper: India has been there and done that.
https://bfsi.economictimes.indiatimes.com/amp/news/policy/sc…
The Supreme Court has held the RBI’s crypto ban circular dated April 6th 2018 as unconstitutional. RBI had issued a circular stating that all entities regulated under RBI shall not deal in virtual currencies.
@whooah1979: The Supreme Court said that it was not constitutional for the RBI to ban crypto in India because crypto was not illegal in India.
This new law will make crypto illegal in India.
@trapper: The proposed legislation will end up in front the SCI. The SCI will rule against it and the government will go back to square one.
It’s impossible to enforce a ban on something that is intangible, permissionless and in high demand. It would be more productive if India regulated the market instead of trying to kill it.
edit The only way India may suppress it is to shut down the internet like what happened in Myanmar.
@whooah1979: The Reserve Bank of India can't randomly decide to ban crypto - that is what the Supreme Court ruled.
The government of India however can most definitely pass a law to ban crypto.
That's not intrinsic value. That's an extrinsic by-product. For example Diamonds could also be used to get money out of China however diamonds have intrinsic value in drilling, cutting and polishing other materials.
The value they bring is the ability to transact over a distance without physical exchange or trust in a centralised authority.
It truly is a great innovation, but I think will be a lousy investment.
As a speculation, it is clearly making some people wealthy.
I just hope they cash out a good part of that wealth before it evaporates.
Fair point about being able to transact over distance or trust in a centralised authority however Musk was able to go around the authorities in the US who have fined him previously for influencing markets.
Authorities are there to protect people from getting ripped off. I think if people don't have faith in their regulators then that is not a reason to automatically jump into something unregulated. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Likewise I wouldn't be throwing money into something unregulated that can be manipulated outside the law by the wealthy and powerful.
Don't worry, Tesla's next. There's a few bubbles waiting to be popped.
It’s crashing because you bought it!
That’s what my mum thinks every time she buys into speculative “assets”. Funnily her friend told her about BTC too, saying it only goes up. Sure sign of things to come.
Ask Elon 😷
You must be new to crypto. Pumps and dumps are pretty normal.
If you are a hodler it's not going to affect you long term
~picks up phone~
He bought? Dump eet!
Bitcoin speculation is the profitable side of Tesla's operations which funds the unprofitable side - car manufacturing.
Buy High ^
Sell Low v
You’re late to the game when you ride the FOMO train
Only if the train stops at USD 45k.
BTC still have to beat Apple's market cap by the end of 2021.
https://nimb.ws/vUEySX
predictions - will fall continue or is it correcting?
Short term it will go up then down and plummet again.
Long term Bitcoin is useless, no one here knows how it works and is just speculating on market movements rather than value.
I agree largely.
However, I don't think no one here knows how it works although probably most crypto 'investors' dont. But equally i think the ones who understand the technology dont understand the economic side and just spout off terms like fiat currency rah rah rah. They also completely deny the legal reality and power countries have.
I'm the opposite … bitcoin will eventually replace gold. Owning 1 BTC+ will become a status thing for the very well off.
I've never understood gold being a supposed a safe haven (unless you've got the actual bars of it in ur hand)
That is the only way gold is a safe haven.
Very wealthy people sometimes buy Gold because it is an offset against their fiat currency which is often held in government bonds or debt. If it looks like a country cannot pay back its debts then bondholders sometimes buy gold because if a country fails then it's hoped the gold will still hold value as a mechanism for trade. If you are left holding paper money that is worthless then physical gold might be able to be used for exchange. If people are buying Gold on the hope it goes up in value because sentiment against the financial abilities of a government to repay its debts then that is speculation. Some say speculation has a place when it's done to offset risk.
Buy HIGH Sell LOW that's my motto
OP I don't think it is a good idea to invest all of your savings into the crypto market. Also INVEST what you can afford to LOSE.
I usually buy crypto, make 100-300% and sell it.
Now crypto got this fancy word "DeFi" stands for "Decentralized Finance" so everyone jumped to invest into it, pumping 10000% per month. Really? What's behind it? Just idea.
I recon whales will start playing with Alts in the nearest future.
Also soon we gonna hear stories "I took a loan to buy Bitcoin and then the market crushed.."
Ps.☝️I hope nobody will follow that way I'm the last sentence.
Beyond the wooosh this comment is straight up painful to read.
It seems they understand its wortheless and pure speculation. But believe they can time the market to make money unlike other idiots trading.
"WARNING!! F2POOL'S LARGEST BITCOIN OUTFLOW!! DUMP INCOMING??!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kthw_Ujqv2w
FFS - guys, someone who has studied investment at university here - please read about irrational exuberance and stop buying bitcoin (and at the moment tesla stocks for that matter) with all your savings.
You are only making money out of someone else being conned to pay more for it. Its the biggest bubble in the market today.
Use your brains - A currency is only useful if it is stable - crypto, whilst it keeps its volatility, isn't useful, if an actual valuable currency that would be inflation which is bad. Imagine quoting someone you would build them a house for 10 bitcoin but then its value either doubles or halves over the time it takes to build, someone is going to lose out - either the willing purchaser or supplier - therefore its useless. Inflation of a currency needs to be controlled or its not functional. So its supposed 'use' is a lie to bring credibility to the ponzi. That's not why people are buying it - who is actually spending their bitcoin rather than just buying it to resell? <5% of holders? 1%? shady dark web users maybe?
Conversely, the only reason its perceived "value" has been up on the market at all is because of this volatility, people buying into the hyped up bubble because they see people making money out of it. These people need to convince others it is worth more and drive up the price to later sell out - its a win loss game.
It's been invented by people who still hold massive majority amounts of it in abundance to sell to wood ducks, who buy it to sell to other wood ducks for more money. All these wood ducks will try convince you how good it is, because they need to, because "investing" in bitcoin is the business of convincing others it is worth more and to buy in to push it up higher. That's not investing, its closer to a ponzi scheme. Investing is when you buy into a business that makes you a return because they are profitable and make money.
Eventually it will crash back down. Yes like any ponzi scheme there's good money to be made for those who convince others to buy it along the way up before it crashes again and again and again in cycles - no denying that… but not something morally or risk wise I want to get involved in.
Ok, Roubini.
or Howard Davies or prefer Robert Shiller maybe - yes, noble prize winning reputable economist who literally wrote the book on irrational exuberance who are warning people not to buy bitcoin!
or maybe I'd prefer Warren Buffet, the greatest investor of all time, who called it as a worthless delusion and 'rat poison squared':
He's some of his quotes:
“Cryptocurrencies basically have no value and they don’t produce anything. They don’t reproduce, they can’t mail you a check, they can’t do anything, and what you hope is that somebody else comes along and pays you more money for them later on, but then that person’s got the problem. In terms of value: zero.”
It draws in a lot of charlatans. It’s something where people who are of less than stellar character see an opportunity to clip people who are trying to get rich because their neighbour’s getting rich buying this stuff that neither one of them understands. It will come to a bad ending.”
Warren Buffet is a legendary investor. He is 👍 at picking stocks and/or assets that is without his "circle of competence". However, he has admitted that he doesn't understand tech and has therefore been 🐌 to join the tech 🎉.
@whooah1979: Lol what's with the use of emoticons.
The problem with Bitcoin is you can dismiss anyone as not being in their sphere of 'competence' as just understanding the tech doesnt mean you understand its purpose or value to the world.
I think the interesting thing about Bitcoin and the Alts is they werent created as a ponzi scheme, Satoshi or whoever probably did thing a decentralised currency was a good idea and came up with interesting tech to achieve it. Some die hards have taken that up, a lot being people libertarians and others who want to stick it to their government. Then after its built some momentum, scammers came in and now the coins are pure speculation and are being manipulated as a ponzi scheme as MrFrugalSmith has described.
Intentionally or not, if you invest a decent amount of money in crypto, you are emotionally invested in its success so you will of course defend it and keep backing it. Combined with those pumping it to dump it, you get the current cycle.
Because bitcoin has no intrinsic value other than the blockchain. People are stupidly investing in what rich people tell them too.