Hey all. Just curious to see how many ozbargainers here are riding around in lambos.
Be interesting to hear years of experience, field, and ball park salary if anyone is happy to share in the comment, otherwise the poll is annonymous.
Will be splitting some brackets up.
The people driving round in lambos probably aren’t reporting much income to the ATO.
Don't have to if you are on a lease and pay it with funny money. Who pays for it outright anyways when freedom is short because you can end up in jail pretty quickly.
Based on my observations, a lot of Lambo drivers are cash only operators.
I am sure the ATO is trawling through car registration details to identify these people. Easy pickings.
Lambo owners don't end up in jails due to tax fraud. Open up your eyes and have a better look at the world you live in.
I didn't mention tax fraud. Helps if you respond to the right comment.
tell us more about this funny money. okthxbye.
That, or it is someone else’s money, just like Mr Ponzi.
Yes, it is a lot easier to use someone else's money without a thought given it is easy come, easy go.
As the case in Sydney right now regarding rogue unlicenced investment advisors clearly demonstrates.
I guarantee those cars are owned by trusts/companies/family members using funds dispersed and shuffled in ways that make it incredibly hard to untangle for the ATO.
I work in an industry where I am able to see a lot of this in some detail. It's incredible how much time the tax office wastes focusing on individuals who are relatively tax compliant when there is rampant tax evasion in other areas. For example, I'm yet to come across a small to medium building business where there aren't major tax issues. Things like limits on entertainment expenses, personal services income etc are also just routinely ignored. Most people married or related to property developers seem to be unaware that they earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, too. And don't get me started about 'loans' from companies and the like.
IRS: Sorry, but It’s Just Easier and Cheaper to Audit the Poor
https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-ea…
Not Australian but ProPublica is not a hack organisation either. Same probably applies to Australia.
I'm yet to come across a small to medium building business where there aren't major tax issues
Most of businesses stay that size because owners run it like their own milk cow that is basically good as it gets.
I guarantee those cars are owned by trusts/companies/family members using funds dispersed and shuffled in ways that make it incredibly hard to untangle for the ATO.
Actually it isn't because you have a $300k asset sitting there. No matter how you shuffle it, it is too big. I am not sure where people get the idea a Lambo is work car unless they are in the car business. Tradie having a HiLux or a Van and using it for private purposes is a different matter. Looking at dealer records on how servicing and other costs are paid will pretty quickly show where the money is coming from.
Most people married or related to property developers seem to be unaware that they earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
They just turn a blind eye if the magic money just keeps on appearing. They would be pretty hurt if they needed to take a 10% cut to their spending because all the income is taxed through one individual.
ATO goes after a few little guys to make a point and hope the rest fall inline. It is like just before tax time they publish a list of items which they are focusing on this tax year and everyone will claim less or not put in border line items.
You have valid observations.
Maybe they are a trustee with a dodgy Caribbean/UK bank?
Maybe I should've put a few option for over 180k… might actually be quite a few lambo drivers here, which is kind of ironic..
Income or taxable income?
Taxable
Ah well, in that case. The government owes me money!
A lot of rich people with high incomes STAY rich by always looking for bargains and counting the pennies. Not sure if it’s a cultural thing, but I know of a lot of really well off immigrants from Asia who absolutely try and get a bargain on anything, and are hence also on this site.
Not sure if it’s a cultural thing
It's a cultural thing, driven by an underlying desire by Asians to build 'family wealth' by passing on the maximum amount of money to one's children.
Non-Asians typically have a very different outlook on life & will sometimes even want their kids to stand on their own two feet & make their own wealth, rather than rely on daddy's money.
It's a cultural thing, driven by an underlying desire by Asians to build 'family wealth' by passing on the maximum amount of money to one's children.
both that, and that these immigrants are often poor when they started, and knows the value of money.
It's often the 2nd gen, who has not had any suffering or experience being poor that squander their wealth!
That’s just an Asian thing. Poor and rich alike act like that in China.
I can attest to this. My partner (1st gen of Asian immigrant in Aus with wealthy family in Asia) will look high and low for bargains before buying anything at retail price. He will consider the intrinsic value of any item and service before making purchases. He also recently started bargaining at established stores like for example at Westfield, and the funny thing is he's been able to get up to 50% discount on full priced, expensive items. Never ask, never know. His parents are wealthy enough for him not to work, but he chooses not to rely on his family, or any of his passive income he's created for himself. He continues to have one main full time job as well as continuously creating passive income. He was surrounded by wealthy family friends growing up and naturally he learned the value of money and how to create wealth by being exposed to families of businessman.
I'm also 1st gen in Australia and my family is from lower class growing up (now quite wealthy due to lucky investment choices) the Asian country we’re from generally lacks financial knowledge - it's changing now but for the longest time people didn't know the concept of diversifying or how shares actually work (they consider it gambling) and are very protective of their money but at the same time pay full retail when they have to pay. I’ve been taught that having stable full time job and 1 if lucky 2 investment property will allow a good life. I’ve always paid full retail for everything. Been taught to put my money away into banks. Not faulting my upbringing, but I’ve learnt that there’s a low chance I’d become wealthy through this mindset. Of course some people who come from nothing, through their own experiences and learning can become wealthy. I'm lucky to have met my partner who has taught me a lot about being financially smart.
Or perhaps explains that folks who are educated or work hard and/or smart are also bright enough to spend money where it matters most (ie outside of the 99% of stuff on OzBargain).
You need a lot more than $180k pa
to drive a lambo ….unless you live with your mum rent free
They aren't even the current tax brackets. Get it right.
Taxable income Tax on this income
0 – $18,200 Nil
$18,201 – $45,000 19 cents for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 – $120,000 $5,092 plus 32.5 cents for each $1 over $45,000
$120,001 – $180,000 $29,467 plus 37 cents for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over $51,667 plus 45 cents for each $1 over $180,000
Will be splitting some brackets up.
45k-120k is too wide.. not really that insightful.
If your question is what tax bracket people fall in, it's super helpful, isn't it?
Can’t that be just worked out from the poll anyways?
But that is the tax bracket as it stands with the ATO. We have 5 tax brackets at the moment and that is reducing. Otherwise your question is "what do you earn?". How many times has that been done on this forum?
Also, are you interested in overall income, income from salary and wages, gross income, income after deductions, income from investments, income from interest, plus family tax benefit part A & B, other tax benefits, etc
@brad1-8tsi: I haven't popped in for a while. I read this and thought why not now? And I might even pop back in next week. How bout we see you next Tuesday. And for shits and giggles we can do it again Thursday. Either way, same meaning really.
Then what is $180k+?!
Lambo owners don't pay tax.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-30/sixty-nine-millionair…
ATO data shows 69 millionaires reduced their taxable income to zero by claiming millions in deductions
Negative gearing is still a popular tax break, with 1.3 million people claiming losses totalling $12.3 billion on their rental properties
8.8 million people claiming $21.98 billion in work-related expense deductions
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-18/tax-stats-2017-18-ato…
Seventy-three millionaires paid no tax in 2017-18, while Australia's richest people live in Sydney's Double Bay, on average earning more than 16 times the nation's poorest, who live in central-west Queensland.
There were 73 Australians who earned more than $1 million in the 2017-18 financial year that did not pay a cent of income tax, up from 69 the year before.
Those that can’t afford, drive mustangs and have to wash the car themselves.
And also have a fake leather steering wheel cover on your GT 'stang.
Not the best example, many people, myself included, enjoy washing their cars.
Whoosh ;)
You need to be able to afford to lose the money from negative gearing in the first place in order to claim it.
Remember, negative gearing means you have to have paid interest or made a loss against your income.
Depreciation isn't really the same as 'losing money' though is it.
I would love to see the list of deductions and would like to follow their examples. Has anyone got a list?
The info you want is here: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/9yv0rk23-4 and be prepared to feel bad about yourself =) (edit wrong thread originally)
Actually made me feel good about myself. Earning less than people but much higher networth.
riding around in lambos
Whether they pay tax or not. I don’t think their “income” is a salary. 😂
Tax bracket is irrelevant. Because from the sounds of it there is a few bitcoin millionaires here who haven't declared or cashed in their coins.
Assets / Years worked (ratio) is more of an indicator because you need to have:
1. The net income
2. Be able to save some of net income
3. Invest it into assets that have a return and reinvest successfully
Plus nobody is going to get rubbed up the wrong way because it is really an annual savings + investment return rate.
The question is what percentage of people lied and voted higher? 80%? 90%?
I voted 180k because i assumed we all did for a joke.
This was my first thought. People will never be honest in these things!
Absolutely. People aren’t ever honest with these things.
Individual or household?
You implies individual
youse implies household.
A household income of $180k would make you just middle class in Sydney and Melbourne.
Youse implies the bottom bracket 🤣
New poll option: a lambo is the income.
Before super deductions?
What if you pump 30k into super for the year
You only pump $25k into your super. The extra $5k is taxed at your top marginal tax rate.
Get with the OzB program.
Potentially Donald has room due to the 5 year roll over rules ($25k annual limit can be rolled over up to 5 years if you super balance is below $400k) but not likely as we all know the Donald is rich.
Interesting. I've never heard of this.
yes you forgot the catch up rules….
but thanks for the accounting advice, ill make sure to pass it on to my accountant.
change countries every 2-3 years and rort the catch up rules in each
I understand the catch up rules has only been in place for 1-2 years.
@TheOtherLeft: Yes hence since I put 30k in this year, 20k from sg, and 30k top up
I worked through foreign company last year.
Nah, TheOtherLeft you're thinking of concessional contributions which are capped at 25K.
Donalds on the ball, he said super deductions which come from non-concessional contributions.
Max non-concessional contributions in a year is 100k.
assuming he is at the top marginal rate he would be tax at the top marginal rate but he would also deduct the contribution which reduces his tax by… the top marginal rate. Only thing you lose out on is the time value of money and if the deduction puts you below the top rate the difference is lost.
If you hold GME you may as well vote for $180,000+
Some years at the bottom, some years at the top.
I also decline pay rises because it would result in paying higher taxes.
You should decline pay rises because you then have to take responsibility for other people's screwups. :P
You need an option for negative dollars.
Yeah, Gerry H will be in that category
My street is lined with $100k+ cars and I don't even live in a rich area. Finance on cars must be cheap as fk.
I know they're on finance because these mofos are so cheap when it comes to everything else.
I see areas with $500k houses with average car prices parked greater than $50k. You can drive you fancy car to a fancy location, you don't have to drive your house and nobody would know you live in a run down 60s post war pre fab with holes in the walls (no idea how you punch through concrete prefab).
Yep. I had friends who used to judge people's wealth by their cars. I always said "don't believe it until you see where they live!!!" I've met guys driving around in Porsches living in the crappiest units or they had the whole thing on finance. Some of the wealthier people I know (400-500k per year incomes, ~$2.0m houses) drive verrry average old cars. An investment banker I knew used to drive a Hyundai hatchback. LOL. These people are still trying to build their wealth and don't spend on depreciating assets. Then you have the truly rich with the house, no mortgage and incredible car. Not so many in that boat.
Only living in a $2m house and making $500k a year seems unrealistic.
@[Deactivated]: I’m definitely underestimating the value of their houses. That was the value when they purchased them 7 or 8 years ago…lol.
I live in Sth West Sydney. There's a lot of Mercs, BMWs, Audis etc parked out of the front of their newish brick houses. I would say there's a resultant big pile of debt hanging over their heads.
What could possibly go wrong.
You know they're on finance? Maybe they are cheap when it comes to everything else because they don't care about everything else. I'm sure a car enthusiast would prioritise their car over just about everything else.
You know they're on finance?
They told me. I live near a lot of middle eastern and european people and I'm on talking terms with them. I'm always being propositioned for their next get rich quick scheme or a new business venture.
My tax bracket is "Too bloody much".
That's anything over $0 though.
First 19.5k is tax free for everyone.
Good to see others like me in the highest paid tax bracket.
After the last 2 weeks on the share market im going to be in the 0-18k range this EOFY
sadly top tier now, get pumped by the gov
Don't be sad, while it hurts to see the money going to the gov, especially with how inefficient and wasteful they are with it, the more tax you pay simply means the more money you have. I have long gotten past being upset over the fact I always pay more and never get a refund even with a crapton of deductions, take it as the positive it is.
Your first 50k is taxed exactly the same as anyone else’s first 50k.
I think the key is to reduce your taxable income by leasing a lambo. People are making faaaarrrrrr more money than they are reporting to the ATO especially any/ all businesses who claim anything they can as a deduction. It's not always about turning a profit if you can deduct as many things as you can against your revenue.
most people are employees payg hence the tax brackets, business tax is completely different
Yep, that's me. But what stops a PAYG employee also becoming a sole trader on the side and start writing off expenses to reduce their overall taxable income?
Only if your sole trader "business" is an actual business and meets the non-commercial loss rules can you use those expenses/losses to offset your PAYG income. If you just become a sole trader without actually generating any substantial business income from that business, you can't just write off expenses against your PAYG salary.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Non-commercial-losses/
https://nexia.com.au/news/tax/non-commercial-losses-explaine….
@Kenb0: You also need to prove you’re actually advertising your business to people who may want to be customers.
You have to declare your gross income to the ATO though. You need to declare your income before and after deductions.
Nice try ATO.
"A recent study shows that over 65% of Australians have a taxable income over $80,000 and are happy to pay less money for a McDonalds cheeseburger meal which comes in a tiny shaped house"
Damn right.
Thanks ATO, that's the best tricky question you asked so far.