Given a No Stopping Fine despite Flat Tyre

Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 12:29
Last edited 12/03/2021 - 09:14 by 1 other user

Hi all,

Final Edit:
I decided just to pay the fine. The time wasted and loss income to go to court is not worth it. I feel robbed, but that's OK. I keep reminding myself that in the past I have broken laws (speeding mostly) and not caught, and this is to pay up for those.

Edit:
I see a lot of responses suggested to go to court. Has anyone done this before? How does it feel like? Please describe the room for me.
My dilemma now is the lost income from going to court and the trouble as well as possible additional costs if I lose.

Tldr:
I had a minor accident that causes my tyre to be flat. I didn't know it was flat until I stepped down from the car.
To check what's going wrong, I had to stop the car, and the only immediately available space is on a no stopping sign.
I then was given a no stopping fine by mail.
I asked for leniency showing proof, however this is denied based on the reason that the car is still able to be driven.
Do you think I have a case to go to court and argue that the car is undriveable?

Long version:
On one of the busy weekday morning my car accidentally hit/brushed the side wall of my garage. It seems to be just a very light scratch, and so I get on with my day.

After a few kms, I feel that the car is not stable.i feel that I have to stop and inspect what's going on, before I continue.

I happened to be in a busy area where all parking spots are taken. Although even if it is not, it is unlikely I can perform parallel parking safely. As at this time the car is practically tilted to one corner. So I stopped at a side road that is safe (not blocking gate or close to intersection), which happened to be a no stopping sign.

After stopping I get out and found out the tyre has been ripped and completely flat. I call out road side assistance to replace the tyre.

I have given all this proof to the sdro, however their reply was that since the car is still drive able, no leniency is given.

The fine was $272.

I'm thinking now whether to argue this in court or just let it go.

Automotive

Comments

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 12:40
      +26

      Wouldn't if I push the car to find a parking, I would risk a real accident like hitting another car or damaging the rims n road?

      • beeawwb on 11/03/2021 - 12:58
        +11

        I agree with you, I don't think the road rules do though. My interpretation is that there's 2 separate provisions / defences one dealing with a "disabled vehicle" and the other with a "medical or other emergency." - so the "emergency" portion is specifically to deal with medical situations.

        For the disabled vehicle it states that you're only permitted to stop no longer than is necessary for the vehicle to be moved safely to a place where you can normally park. Given that the vehicle was already moving for at least 5km it'd be hard to argue that the vehicle couldn't continue to move to another parking place.

        http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104…

        165 Stopping in an emergency etc or to comply with another rule
        It is a defence to the prosecution of a driver for an offence against a provision of this Part if—
        […]
        (b) the driver stops at a particular place, or in a particular way, because the driver's vehicle is disabled, and the driver stops for no longer than is necessary for the vehicle to be moved safely to a place where the driver is permitted to park the vehicle under these Rules, or
        (c) the driver stops at a particular place, or in a particular way, to deal with a medical or other emergency, or to assist a disabled vehicle, and the driver stops for no longer than is necessary in the circumstances
        (d) the driver stops at a particular place, or in a particular way, because the condition of the driver, a passenger, or the driver's vehicle makes it necessary for the driver to stop in the interests of safety, and the driver stops for no longer than is necessary in the circumstances […]

        Edit: pegaxs rightly points out section (d) which deals with "the driver's vehicle" - I missed that bit and thought that section only dealt with the driver or passengers. This might be the only relevant passage if a flat tyre constitutes "in the interests of safety" but you'd have to refer back to the vehicle moving relatively safely or otherwise for 5km prior.

        • pegaxs on 11/03/2021 - 16:46
          +2

          I agree. There is a little bit of missing context. Was the nearest safe parking area 2 car lengths away for 2 suburbs over? Was there an option to move the car to a safer space or was that option not available? I agree that a car with a flat tyre is of a safety concern, but it's where OP stopped that needs a little more context.

      • CalmLemons on 13/03/2021 - 14:07
        +2

        wtf. fight the fine. you cannot drive on a flat tyre. there should be some leniency to this.

        you keep on driving on a flat tyre, it explodes, you swerve into another car.
        you keep on driving on a flat tyre, you'll ruin the internal rubber or cause a cut in the tyre.
        never keep on driving on a flat tyre, unless you have run flats.

        I deal with 6-8 flats a year given the areas we work in, i'm over replacing $500 tyres because someone keeps on driving on flats.

        stopping there would be nowhere near as dangerous as stopping on the emergency lane in the freeway and changing a flat tyre.

        would think it's one of the coward inspectors who takes a photo instead and drives off instead of accessing the whole situation.

    • Drakesy on 11/03/2021 - 12:41
      +53

      I'd debate that, a car with a flat tyre is not-roadworthy, driving this for a longer period knowing this would have been negligent and could've caused an accident.

      Although i agree that the car could've been driven a bit further away from a no-stopping zone, tyres don't fail immediately.

      • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 12:43

        The tyre has already been driven at least 5km I think. When I found it, it has no air. Bottom down.

        • oscargamer on 11/03/2021 - 12:47
          +36

          The tyre is usually only flat on the bottom half.

        • bdl on 11/03/2021 - 19:54

          Heads up

        • DingoBilly on 11/03/2021 - 20:03
          +6

          I mean - in this scenario, you've already driven it for 5km and decided to stop it at a no stopping zone? Surely you could have easily driven it another 500m anywhere to find a better location. If you've driven it for that long with a flat tyre a few hundred m's won't make a difference and I really think you'd be able to find a safe spot.

          If I thought there was something wrong with my car on the highway I wouldn't just stop it in the middle of the road - I'd slow down and try and find a proper spot to have a proper look at it as an example.

          • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2021 - 23:27
            +2

            @DingoBilly: A flat tyre is a hazard for a number of reasons and should not be driven on for any period of time or distance at all.

            The wheel itself gets damaged if driven on without a properly inflated tyre - to the point where even 50m of driving on it can bend it out of shape.

            Once the wheel is buckled - the tyre cannot be changed and continues to let air out even if you put a new one on.

            The costs required to fix a buckled wheel are almost the price of an entire new wheel depending on how badly it was bent out of shape.

            In OPs case they only realised their tyre was flat at a point where it was too late to continue driving on the completely flat tyre.

            There is no way SDRO would get away with the idea that the car was driveable and OP's best option is to find rules surrounding flat tyre safety published by a governing body in their location and use that as their evidence.

            • Mikeer on 12/03/2021 - 00:07

              @[Deactivated]: In your expert opinion, knowing that the OP has already driven at least 5km on a flat tyre, would you say that the wheel is already severely bent out shape? How significant is the difference between 5,000 meters with a flat tyre and 5,050 meters?

              • Ridiculous Panda on 12/03/2021 - 07:38
                +8

                @Mikeer: Obviously he did not drive 5 km on a completely flat tyre!
                I wouldn’t drive around looking for a parking spot on a completely flat tyre especially in a busy area. That is just too dangerous for himself and others.
                OP, if the spot where you stopped wasn’t actually causing a hazard (ie blocking view for turning vehicles), then I’d fight this nonsense even if I’m taking a day off.

      • Ahbal on 11/03/2021 - 22:49
        +6

        Get fined for driving on, get fined for stopping. Lose-lose.

      • MementoMori on 12/03/2021 - 09:15

        Agreed = Flat tyre = Car undriveable

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 12:58
      -1

      Actually, the revenue nsw stated several reasons why a car may stop at no stopping sign. One of which that perhaps most relevant to my situation is mechanical breakdown.

      • gromit on 11/03/2021 - 23:11

        That isn't relevant as you had not broken down.

        • Ridiculous Panda on 12/03/2021 - 07:43
          +7

          How about some common sense though? It is essentially the same thing as both result in the car not being safely drivable.

          • gromit on 12/03/2021 - 11:38

            @Ridiculous Panda: not sure I agree. It depends on the area, he had already driven a considerable distance with a flat tyre, yet he decided it had to be a no stopping zone to check what was wrong? Perhaps if there was definitely nothing else within half a click I would think it is harsh but otherwise it should not qualify as a breakdown.

    • trapper on 11/03/2021 - 14:46
      +14

      It is not safe or legal to drive a car with a flat tyre though.

    • picklewizard on 11/03/2021 - 14:50
      +35

      How is "I have a car that is suddenly rendered unsafe to drive due to circumstances beyond my control" not an emergency?

      OP, fight the shit out of it. Council are being twats and raising revenue. Magistrate will not have the same motivation.

      • wozz on 13/03/2021 - 13:12
        +1

        Too right.. if its not legal to drive, you can't exactly make the car disappear. Absolute garbage fine. Whoever rejected your letter of appeal is a complete twat. Hopefully karma deals with them when they need some compassion (actually commonsense) one day

  • AndyC1 on 11/03/2021 - 12:40
    -1

    Not a nice police officer……..

    • GG57 on 11/03/2021 - 13:17
      +1

      Was it the police that issued the ticket? Unclear in my reading of the post.

      • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 16:06

        It wasn't a police, it was posted by mail

        • AndyC1 on 11/03/2021 - 17:07
          -3

          It was the police officer filling in paper work later in the day/night. The police could have given a warning etc.

        • bdl on 11/03/2021 - 19:54
          +12

          Damn postman!

        • Mistredo on 11/03/2021 - 23:13
          +1

          Somebody had to see you there. Could it be a camera?

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 12:54
      +12

      Why non Anglo got anything to do with this?

      • dvsbastard on 11/03/2021 - 21:28

        I can answer the question, but first, are you a second generation immigrant?

  • Hithere on 11/03/2021 - 12:58
    +3

    I'm thinking now whether to argue this in court or just let it go.

    While it's unfair that you got fined you'll have to decide if it's worth taking a day off work to go to court and if you lose may be liable to pay the fine plus court costs if the magistrate is in a bad mood.

    Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

      • Nalar on 11/03/2021 - 13:15
        +4

        By all means test the laws of other countries. Maybe test out possession charges in Japan or maybe speak ill of the church in Poland…

        • GG57 on 11/03/2021 - 13:19
          +1

          Exactly, or make a comment about the King in Thailand.
          The list could go on.

      • GG57 on 11/03/2021 - 13:20

        There must be a reason why the 'No Stopping' sign is in place. What is the reason?

        • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 16:06

          In front of A church building.

    • donga100 on 11/03/2021 - 16:13
      +12

      It won't ever go to court. Tell council you want it to be heard in court and they will 99% drop the matter given the circumstances.

    • jayzee on 11/03/2021 - 23:00
      +2

      I once contested a fine for park the car at bus stop, the bus stop was moved to the new spot for some road work at old place, but only put up a temporary sign. The fine was around $120 or something, so I sent a letter and some photos to court to state my case, the judge reviewed them and agreed with me, waived the fine, and how nice of him and charged me $80 court fee! I didn't need to attend the court though, just sent in the supporting evidence.

      • ozgeek on 11/03/2021 - 23:05
        +2

        A great outcome considering you saved yourself $40 haha.

        • jayzee on 11/03/2021 - 23:08
          +2

          Consider that I had to write a letter, took photos of street and sign, then went to Big W to print them, then sent them in mail. Well, I just call it even.

  • pegaxs on 11/03/2021 - 13:12
    +18

    ✅ Elect to have the matter heard in court.

    Road rule 165 deals with stopping in a no stopping area with regards to mechanical issues with the vehicles. (See parts (b) and (d) that deal with vehicles being disabled or unable to be safety driven.)

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 14:10
      +1

      Thank you, the point d in particular I feel strongly with.

    • Frankensnore on 12/03/2021 - 08:34

      Has anyone gone to court before? How does it feel like? Please describe the room for me. Thanks.

      • ATangk on 12/03/2021 - 15:04
        +2

        Speak with respect and its all good. You might have to wait your turn but your matter will be dealt with in 5-10 mins no more.

      • jacross on 12/03/2021 - 21:40
        +1

        So basically the magistrate knows you don't live in that world and so as long as you are respectful they will help you through it as much as is appropriate. If you have a genuine just reason to be there they will side with you. If they think you are wasting their time (and courts schedules are very packed) they will crack it at you. If you have an attitude or disrespect them they will crack it at you.

        • knk on 13/03/2021 - 17:42

          basically, "dont be a dick" lol

      • CalmLemons on 13/03/2021 - 14:09

        Just be honest and don't be a douche. Judges pretty good at accessing, and when you're in the room, the truth shines out.

  • happydude on 11/03/2021 - 13:13

    Council Fine or Police?

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 14:07

      No stopping is always council fine. But in nsw both are payable to revenue nsw.

      • pegaxs on 11/03/2021 - 16:39
        +1

        No stopping is always council fine…

        No, this is incorrect. The police routinely come past the school where I work and hand out fines for parents parking in the "no stopping" and "no parking" areas around the school. (Something like $350+ish and 2 demerits)

        • lonewolf on 12/03/2021 - 15:06

          really? Wish they would come by my area. It has been pointed out that the biggest issue with schools and accidents is not speed or normal people driving through the area but people doing drop offs and pick ups and double and triple parking or going really slowly or doing U-turns on busy roads etc…I live on a street where a few houses down there is a school. And its a nightmare, and people do so much dumb crap and slow everyone else down who are just trying to get out of the street to go to work. twice now i have had people actually park in front of my driveway and made me late to work as they blocked me up. In one instance, the car then refused to start and they refused to let me help them push the car foward and so i can get my car out. Because the grandma and baby was in the back seat and for some reason they didnt want to get out either. In the end my neighbour came and told them off and said no we are pushing the car so he can go into work.

  • Presence on 11/03/2021 - 13:46
    +1

    You must've driven into your garage pretty bloody hard to destroy the tyre!

  • dizzle on 11/03/2021 - 14:33
    -2

    From the title I thought I would have sympathy. Thinking you were in an accident or witnessed an accident and pulled over immediately to help, then got fined.

    In reality, your "accident" is something that happened before driving for a while (we don't know how long, but a while), and you just have a flat tyre. So unless there was structural damage has little to do with when you pulled over.

    So, you pulled over with a flat tyre somewhere you shouldn't and that's the issue. Could you have moved elsewhere? Probably.
    When you got the ticket were you with the car? Was it a written ticket?

    I'm assuming you were not with the car otherwise someone writing a ticket would probably have taken pity after your explanation. If you were changing the wheel they may have taken pity.

    If you were not present, there is probably nothing to prove that you had a flat tyre. They would just think you were off doing something else and using the tyre as an excuse.

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 16:05
      +1

      The ticket is posted and I was in the car all the time. I never met the officer.

      • dizzle on 11/03/2021 - 16:36
        +1

        Then I would assume it was CCTV.

        If you do take it further I would request proof (ie photos/video) that you were parked there. If it turns out to be video, you should have the Roadside assistance fixing the tyre as proof.

        Not sure if that would get you off as an emergency, but if you have a clear record they may have leniency.

  • brad1-8tsi on 11/03/2021 - 14:34
    +7

    I'd take it to court, especially if you can show there were no nearby alternatives AND it was the safest logical place to stop.

    You aren't a mechanic or a tyre expert. How are you to know if the car can be driven safely? Lets face it, you are so gormless, you didn't even know you had a flat tyre for 5km.

    • netjock on 11/03/2021 - 15:39

      Dash cam is probably good for an occasion like this!

      • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 16:04

        I do have a dash cam, but it doesn't show much evidence tbh

  • trapper on 11/03/2021 - 14:51

    How did you receive this ticket? Were you waiting with the car the whole time?

    • Frankensnore on 11/03/2021 - 16:03

      I was 100% with the car all the time. It's posted.

      • trapper on 11/03/2021 - 18:41
        +2

        Ok, and so presumably you have the invoice for the callout, new tyre etc.

        I'm surprised that wasn't enough when you contested the fine. I think you will win in court if what you say is all accurate. A car with a destroyed tyre is not drivable.

        • Frankensnore on 12/03/2021 - 08:36
          +4

          When looking at the reply, it appears that the idiot reviewing it thinks it was punctured at the site, not prior.

          I thought I made that perfectly clear.

          This state is run by idiots, it appears to me.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 11/03/2021 - 14:57
    +14

    revenue f raising…

    • netjock on 11/03/2021 - 15:56
      +3

      Yup. Just waiting for the day when you get fined for breathing in too much oxygen and breathing out too much CO2. Country's turning into a joke. I mean seriously the land of convicts turning into a land with so many rules I'm surprised there isn't a new piece of legislation sign posted on every street corner.

      • Flying Ace on 12/03/2021 - 16:30
        +1

        Rules galore for the plebs, yet the politicians can run rampant with our money and face no consequences.

  • bobbified on 11/03/2021 - 16:00
    +14

    Most other posters have random ridiculous excuses that I laugh at .
    You actually have a legitimate one.
    SDRO are fwits (and whoever it was that handed you that ticket) so take it to court.

    • Frankensnore on 12/03/2021 - 08:36

      Has anyone gone to court before? How does it feel like? Please describe the room for me. Thanks.

      • MessyG on 12/03/2021 - 08:54
        +1

        You may find that once you say you'll take it to court for all the very good reasons listed above, they drop it anyway because it will cost them more.

    • TheMindsetTraveller on 11/03/2021 - 16:26
      +1

      ok champ

      • jv on 11/03/2021 - 16:29
        -2

        It will save you money in the long run…

  • jv on 11/03/2021 - 16:31
    +14

    however their reply was that since the car is still drive able

    Your argument should be the car is unsafe to drive and not roadworthy with a flat tyre.

    Can't see how they could argue that it is safe to drive.

  • Randxyz123 on 11/03/2021 - 17:02
    +3

    I wouldn’t normally suggest going to court but I don’t see how the council or whoever issued the ticket has a leg to stand on. Your car was as you say “not stable” so you stopped. Perhaps if there was a nearby place that was “legal” to park in you should have waited for roadside there, but driving on a flat can do serious damage to your tyre.

    I’m curious how they could tell it was “still drivable”…

    • Anvariel on 11/03/2021 - 20:11

      Not to mention affecting control of vehicle, increasing chance of accident in heavy traffic.

  • JimmyF on 11/03/2021 - 17:38
    -4

    Do you think I have a case to go to court and argue that the car is undriveable?

    No case really, pay the fine.

    Honestly yes it is pretty hard/tough/unfair, but from your events you could have checked the tyre at home after the issue. What sort of person hits their garage and keeps driving without checking for damage!?

    So unless you rim to ground and no tyre left, yeah sorry.

  • c64 on 11/03/2021 - 18:53
    +9

    what a deflating experience

  • Anvariel on 11/03/2021 - 20:06
    +7

    I wouldn't bring up the prior history about the wheel hitting garage etc and simply state as you said, car felt unsafe while driving, tilting heavily. i.e. disabled and probably not safely drivable, and therefore safest option was to stop and fix it. Can the council or whoever issued the ticket prove it was safe to drive? You exercised common sense and weren't being an idiot parking there for shits and giggles.

    As pegaxs said, Part 12 - 165 (b) and (d) both fit your situation. Assuming you didn't go out for pizza after roadside assist had been, you stopped only for as long as required to make the vehicle safe. And the text literally says "It is a defence to the prosecution of a driver for an offence against a provision of this Part". So the law itself clearly states that what you've explained is a valid defence against prosecution of no stopping sign laws found in Part 12 - 167.

    You can provide dash cam footage to show timestamps of arrival and departure, phone call records to prove when you called road assist, and invoice to prove repair. Provide a map showing where you stopped and why you considered it the safest option in the given circumstances.

    • knasty on 11/03/2021 - 22:32

      This post saved me typing…

  • UltimateAI on 11/03/2021 - 22:08
    -1

    Can't imagine it's safe to stop in a "no stopping zone" to inspect the car for whatever reason.
    Very difficult to argue that for mechanical reasons you could not drive safely a little further and find a safe place to stop.
    Stopping in a non-stopping zone isn't safe.

  • Dreamcast on 11/03/2021 - 22:50

    What a bunch of kents they are. Definitely take it to court.

    These kents have no soul!

    • Quantumcat on 12/03/2021 - 14:56

      Kent?

      • c64 on 12/03/2021 - 14:58

        must be related to greg hunt

      • Dreamcast on 12/03/2021 - 18:20
        +1

        C U Next Tuesday

  • Cave Fire on 11/03/2021 - 23:10
    +1

    So your fine went straight to Revenue NSW? See who you can dispute the fine with internally. Eg, there might be a manager or second stage review. If none, then get legal advice or ask around in your area. There's no telling what could happen with a flat so imo, it was right to immediately stop. If you drove further you could have way more than $275 of damage to the car. There may be a chance that the wheels are untrue due to extra strain or hitting things without a tyre.

  • richmond12 on 12/03/2021 - 01:58
    +2

    I’d be flat if I received that inflated fine

  • dcash on 12/03/2021 - 07:56

    As others have stated, I think it mostly comes down to how much further you would need to have driven to have reached a legal place to park, and whether the place you stopped at was particularly dangerous. Assuming the answer to those question is somewhat in your favour, I would definitely consider taking the matter to court (I think it unlikely it would get that far).

  • OzzyOzbourne on 12/03/2021 - 08:11
    +3

    Considering your car is not road worthy with a flat tyre because it's dangerous to drive with one and therefore if you got in an accident your insurance may not cover you, I'd argue it was an emergency. Otherwise, what does constitute an emergency? You found the nearest safe place to stop. I would think that was reasonable.

  • gbarlett on 12/03/2021 - 08:15
    +1

    They may say the vehicle is drivable however i would argue that it can not be driven safely.
    If the tyre is ripped then the vehicle is unroadworthy and should not be driven until repaired.
    It is illegal to drive an unroadworthy vehicle.

  • Troyp on 12/03/2021 - 08:21
    +1

    Not sure the state however find out the minster who oversees the office if NSW been through this before and had it removed.

    For stopping in a bus zone when broken down in a new car and left overnight and showed all the proof let off with a caution in the end and noted on my file.

    Sdro said no as it was next day however other way decided yes…took delivery of new car from another state plates changed and road side hadn't changed the plates despite being told was roadside with car co , so wouldn't assist had to go home to find old plates info and didn't go back till next day.

    They call their contact at sdro and maybe look at it different and have more powers.

    Worth a try

  • Dougaldog on 12/03/2021 - 10:02

    I’d write to the police minister and ask for leniency in your case. They usually put a hold in the fine until someone in the department makes a determination. At which point they either cancel the fine, or reinstate it. At least you’d have made your case.

    • Dougaldog on 12/03/2021 - 10:04
      -1

      I mean, people are often on the side of the motorway changing a tyre, and it’s all a no stopping zone.

      • ATangk on 12/03/2021 - 15:05

        Sorry, let me keep driving with a flat at 110kph, no biggie. Didn't want to risk the fine!

  • TK Deadwalker on 12/03/2021 - 10:33
    +2

    I feel like this could have been contested and won. The OP had good reason to stop, as the car had become unsafe to drive and it was an emergency.

    Did the ticket officer have any evidence, like photos to prove that you were there?

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