Since cannabis is a whole lot safer compared to alcohol, should we legalize it with same or similar rules as alcohol?
Legalize Cannabis with Similar/Same Rules as Alcohol?
Comments
I personally don't drink, I get savage hangovers that last for days so these days I stear clear. If weed was legal I probably would give it a crack.
Always amazed booze is legal & weed isn't, I regularly get abused by drunks, stoners I mainly encounter at petrol stations buying jumbo slushies & $30 worth of chips & chocolate (with glowing bloodshot eyes looking sketchy).
I know which I would run into on a dark night.
You'd probably like weed…. No hangovers at all. :)
You'd probably like weed…. No hangovers at all
but then…
- Short-term memory problems
- Severe anxiety
- Fear that one is being watched or followed (paranoia)
- Very strange behavior, seeing, hearing or smelling things that aren’t there
- Not being able to tell imagination from reality (psychosis)
- Panic
- Hallucinations
- Loss of sense of personal identity
Sure, they'd 'probably' like all that…..
@jv: You're reaching. I too can spit out all the facts stating the absolute worst side effects of alcohol abuse, but we're not talking about extreme cases.
absolute worst side effects of alcohol abuse
That would be a small minority.
Many people consume alcohol is small amounts where there is very little harm, and most likely a few benefits.
With Cannabis, there is no safe amount. Lots of research to suggest teenagers smoking small amounts regularly lead to higher incidents of schizophrenia.Many people consume alcohol is small amounts where there is very little harm, and most likely a few benefits.
that's sh!t science funded by the alcohol industry
all alchohol consumption has some level of negative health effects
all alchohol consumption has some level of negative health effects
and positive health affects.
It has been consumed by people for thousands of years…
@jv: I'm not talking about the small minority. I made that clear. You're talking as if all cannabis users experience those wildly extreme effects all the time …which now reveals how much experience or knowledge you have of it.
how much experience or knowledge you have of it.
It's quite possible that I know more about it than you think…
Troll alert peeps
Oh yes, lets start with the personal attacks when we lose arguments, very mature of you…
Or is this one of the effects of smoking this stuff ???
@jv: I apologize if you're not trolling. You see I vaped a bit of weed over the weekend just to wind down after a busy week. So did hundreds of thousands of others. And you're saying we all experienced wicked hallucinations, severe anxiety, panic, psychosis?!? And then you say you know more about the subject? Forgive me for thinking you're trolling. All I experienced was relaxation, a few giggles, admiration for my dog, and ice-cold water never tasted so good. Same with the chocolate cake. I must've taken the wrong drugs.
you say you know more about the subject?
It looks like the weed you claimed to have smoked over the weekend may have affected your comprehension…
Weed gives hangovers, just a different kind of hangover.
Brain slowness and lethargy that can last nearly the entire day afterwards.
$30 worth of chips from a servo? So like 2.5 packets?
Say no to coffee? Faggedaboudit
That's working out quite well so far 😂
No Thanks.
Alcohol will never be banned in my lifetime. Thankfully.Happy to ban both if we also ban gambling, horse racing, pokies
But I think we would have better luck legalizing Meth than banning those things in a country like ours
interesting
doesn't have a direct health effect
but does cause addiction
i'd be happy to give up my occasional gambling to prevent all that misery
You know it can be legal and you can still say no.
No one wants to make drugs and alcohol compulsory, you can always say NO.
I was gonna go to school but then i got high
Smoking weed (THC) is not the same as medicinal cannabis oil (CBD)
I support CBD and medicinal treatments.
Its not even close agreed.
Smoking weed (THC) vs using cannabis oil isolate (CBD) is like drinking petrol and drinking water. One will kill you, one will hydrate you.
Hahahahahahaha..
OH, you were SERIOUS!
Ye I think I misled/confused people im my comment
I was agreeing with the OP that smoking weed and using CBD oil are not the same.
But the government treat both as exactly the same. They couldn't be further from the same given 1 is smoked for the THC psychoactive properties and the other has negligible/nil THC and is taken for medical reasons (cancer etc)
Legalize it, Tax it, Fund hospitals and schools with it.
Legalise crystal (profanity) weed
I was once considered a heavy user of marijuana for many years and currently a non user. I have always stated to my friends that marijuana should NOT be legalised till a government approved company can manufacture it as a standard THC level, as in a alcohol standard level. That way so many grams (or part there of) per hour would constitute the difference under or over the limit.
That doesn't really work at all. Different amounts of THC will effect people differently depending on their size, diet, level of activity and most importantly their tolerance. If I'm smoking regularly I could smoke a joint and pass as sober to most people, smoke that same joint after a two week break and I'll be toe up.
Isn't that the same as alcohol and any other drug?
An alcoholic and a first time drinker will be very differently affected by two beers. The law would say both are able to drive, but the first timer might be feeling pretty smashed while the alcoholic is yet to feel anything.
Yeah but it's a lot more noticeable with weed, a first time user can have an intense experience from one puff whereas I wouldn't even know if there was weed in it. It's not really the same for a shot of alcohol for example.
Also I believe the level of intoxication to amount consumed isn't as linear as with alcohol. My level of intoxication from weed tends to relate more to my tolerancy at the time rather than amount consumed, i.e. I could smoke all day non stop and never reach a level of intoxication that I would if I had smoked one joint after a two week break.
can manufacture it as a standard THC level
This can 100% be done now.
When NZ did the referendum on cannabis and failed to go through, it shocked me as I believed NZ will be progressive to accept it. Though OzBargain says "yes", I'd be surprised if Australia will accept the use of cannabis.
It failed by such a thin margin, do it again in 5years when more old people who support conservative politics and the war on drugs die off and it'll pass.
You'd be surprised how many of these "old people" actually influence their children and their families. Sadly we have become a little like America whereby people are affiliated to their colours (red/blue) when voting and don't care what their policies are - it rubs off after years of brainwashing. I was hoping for a change in legislation but also keep in mind that the older one gets the more conservative their thinking.
Examples of not being aware of actual policies or societal issues but supporting our "team" regardless:
Liberals are fiscally better than Labor. This is not financially true but this mantra, oft repeated, is seen as correct based on media narratives.Sexual harassment or treatment of women. We all know its completely wrong - but watch the excuses from supporters from either political party. Now imagine if it was the other party and watch them unleash their dogs.
Another example of conservatism or caring only when it suits our agenda - China and its human rights atrocities. As soon as they posted a picture about Australian's committing atrocities in war or mentioned embargoes then Australia retaliates by mentioning their mistreatment of their own citizens. Prior to that, there was little care as long as we got a piece of the pie. We (as in the govt & people) are hypocrites.
PS. A kiwi & aussie here & I support changing:
- cannabis use (I'm not a user) & taxation of it similar to tobacco
- flags for both counties
- national anthem (Aus)
- tax on alcohol & gambling similar to tobacco laws (I'd prefer it banned but unlikely in our society)
there is so much real world research and evidence about legalised pot and how it doesnt all of a sudden turn people into meth smoking zombies
alas, dinosaur politicans again……..woooooooooooooooooooooo war on drugs
I would like to know how you come to the conclusion that it is safer.
I have witnessed 2 people being diagnosed with schizophrenia and that’s it, life stuffed and you can’t fix it at all.1 had a fantastic IT career which was climbing the corporate ladder and the other was a machinist and now they have nothing.
I've smoked daily for over a decade, the whole time working a successful career in IT. As a regular smoker (also very social) I've known hundreds of others who are also daily smokers and funnily I don't know ANYONE who has developed schizophrenia from it.
I'm going to bet that most of the anecdotal stories getting thrown around here happened to a 'friend of a friend'.
Mate, what are you smoking?
Well I don't actually smoke any more I use a vaporizer, much healthier.
mighty vape <3
Eat it instead.
Both are equally bad if abused. Therefore, having one already legalised does not mean both must be legalised.
Alcohol causes death if you have too much.
There hasn't been a single death caused by an overdose of cannabis, it's not physically possible.
Its not about if anyone has died yet. Its about opening any path for any sane person to go crazy when there are already enough craziness in alcohol. Sometimes, it is the combination of many factors that eventually triggered the death, and one of the factor can be cannabis.
You wrote that both are equally bad if abused. That statement is objectively false. Alcohol literally will kill you if you have too much with no other factors involved.
Having bad parents and a traumatic childhood is a much greater factor when it comes to predicting mental illnesses, and causing harm to others or self harm, than substance abuse.
With the level of nuance you're applying you may as well also write that depression also causes factors that lead to death and put it in the same category.
@studentl0an: Depression is non voluntary. Alcohol and Cannabis are. This is why restricting Cannabis is a better option than legalising it on the street.
@spedohero: Pretty sure putting home ownership and financial independence within reach of the majority of Australians would do about a thousand times more for reducing depression than banning any of the commonly abused drugs.
Young people aren’t depressed because of weed, we’re depressed because almost none of us foresee a future which doesn’t involve our quality of life deteriorating.
@spedohero: Each individual should live their life doing the things they enjoy as long as it's not at the expense of others, what you value as most important is not the same as everyone else. It's not a good idea to project your idea of normal onto everyone else.
With every joy or endeavour taken in life (any activity that is not essential for survival) comes with some element of unnecessary risk (a trade off of some sort) regardless of how benign it may seem.
To arbitrarily deny a simple pleasure for some since a few others do have adverse effects is IMO selfish and pointless.
Peanuts kill many people - it's a risk, but let's not conflate these things to say "peanuts are dangerous and should be illegal" - that'd be nuts!
Cannabis will be bad for some people, but as harmless as peanut butter for most.
Yes, all drugs should be legal but only if they are produced domestically so we have control over all the regulations involved in the cultivation and distribution, and tax it to provide drug dependence counselling programs.
Currently there's just too much human misery in the global trade of narcotics (particularly heinous is human trafficking in 3rd world countries such as using vulnerable children as drug mules), and we need to move to a model that promotes compassion and fair trade in the entire industry. Producing it locally and having good regulations is a great start.
produced domestically so we have control over all the regulations involved in the cultivation and distribution, and tax it to provide drug dependence counselling programs.
You know it is never going to work. Crown casino and their cow boy ways. Gambling taxes don't get funnelled into counselling programs. It is just all for show.
But then why do we need laws if everyone is a good model citizen. People just always find ways to try to screw others (or themselves).
Currently there's just too much human misery in the global trade of narcotics (particularly heinous is human trafficking in 3rd world countries such as using vulnerable children as drug mules), and we need to move to a model that promotes compassion and fair trade in the entire industry. Producing it locally and having good regulations is a great start.
The global trade in narcotics IS due to prohibition. If it was not illegal it would not exist in the shady form it is today.
Prohibition has never worked. It is the problem more than the solution.
People are going to smoke no matter what. So for those who aren't in the smoking scene it might be helpful for you to know that in Australia with prohibition we have…
- Majority of commercial weed grown with Plant Growth Regulators (potentially carcinogenic)
- Most users will mix their weed with tobacco to make it go further (not common in legal countries, in fact looked down on)
- Low potency weed meaning people smoke more to get the same effect.
If it were legal we could instead have…
- Weed that has gone through a quality control process to identify mould and other contaminants
- Laboratory produced cannabis extracts (high strength weed without needing to combust)
- Edibles will be much more popular as they become cost effective with the availability of trimmings from the productions process
- Money going into the economy rather than towards crime syndicates
- Less tobacco usage
People are going to smoke no matter what
Another false assumption.
If you can have weed like you can have alcohol, even people who never thought to smoke are more likely going to "have one". You are now increasing the base of the people who potentially could get addicted, resulting in more addicted.
The crime is mostly coming from people that are addicted to weed, lost their job because of it, cannot find employment because of it, and have resort to other illegal means to get money for it. For example trading it.
Cannabis use already has very few barriers to entry and it's use is now almost entirely socially acceptable so I don't really believe that.
If all the people around you who smoke weed are criminals maybe you just live in a s**thole? I live inner city Melb and all the regular smokers I know are intelligent people with successful careers. In fact I would say cannabis use skews towards the more intelligent people in my social circles while the dummies generally gravitate towards alcohol and stimulants.
My general experience has been that the people who are still strongly against the legalisation of Cannabis are middle aged people from the burbs, I figure this is because they're only ever exposed to loser stoners who never made it out of their parents home. There are plenty of losers who don't smoke weed and plenty of successful people who do.
There are plenty of losers who don't smoke weed and plenty of successful people who do.
Welllll.. Elon Musk is definitely smart, but could you say "successful"?
It's all up to interpretation really…
If you can have weed like you can have alcohol, even people who never thought to smoke are more likely going to "have one". You are now increasing the base of the people who potentially could get addicted, resulting in more addicted.
Citation sorely needed.
It certainly didn't go up in the A.C.T. in the year they've decriminalised it.
"Overall, we found cannabis use hasn't changed and, in some ways, that's the big story, because there were really dire predictions at the outset," Alcohol, Tobacco and Other Drug Association ACT chief executive Devin Bowles said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-31/what-has-changed-sinc…
But carry on blissfully unaware, dude.
Decriminalized is not legalize: what they allow is growing and possessing. Not "legalized" as alcohol, where you can go in a bottle-shop and buy it.
So you can't make any conclusion for something that has been around for just a bit longer than 1 year. "They will come into effect from January 31, 2020."@cameldownunder: Yeeeer, dunno - back when it was decriminalized in SA it sure seemed like it was legal…
YMMV.
waiting for CBD oil to hit the shelves. its legal now. but it takes a few months to come to market, we will see them by end of the year.
I don't understand the stigma around it all. Eating a brownie and chilling out for the evening is somehow incredibly dangerous and illegal, while downing a six pack of beers is not?
Since cannabis is a whole lot safer compared to alcohol
Where the heck do you get your information from ?
If you start with a statement that is false, all conclusions are true. That is simple logic.
Let's just say, that I can have 1 beer, and NOTHING shows up in my blood or piss after 12 hours. Not so for cannabis. Nuff said.
Alcohol stays in the blood up to 80 hours and can be detected in hair samples up to 6 months after your last drink: https://www.alcoholproblemsandsolutions.org/long-can-hair-al…
"So how long can a hair alcohol test detect drinking? If the drinking was heavy enough, it could be for about three to six months."
If you knew about cannabis testing, it is around the same. 80 hours in blood, 3 months in hair.
https://internationalhighlife.com/how-long-thc-stay-blood/You really are not qualified to be giving the statements you are, let alone putting your foot down like a petulant child trying to stifle discussions by saying false statements followed by "nuff said". Can I suggest reading some some medical journal articles?
https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/alcohol-is-more-har…
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320984You really are not qualified to be giving the statements you are
Another statement without basis…
Are you smoking something ???
We can both read the user wrote how long alcohol can be detected for, we can both see that I provided evidence countering that.
Most reasonable people would consider evidence as a strong basis that they are not qualified. Why don't you?
@studentl0an: You wrote they are 'not qualified' and for all you know, they may be an expert on the subject…
@jv: If the evidence countering their claims, along with their grammar and cadence with their vitriol towards cannabis isn't evidence that they are not an expert in the field then how can you ever find truth in anything?
I'm genuinely curious. How can you ever find truth in anything if empirical evidence from medical journals isn't enough?
@jv: Now you're just grifting for the sake of it and it's not constructive. It's trolling, but not in the humorous way you normally get away with - but damaging to everyone.
It's trolling
You're the one attacking someone, claiming they are 'not qualified' when you don't know anything about the person making the comment.
@jv: If you have evidence countering the claims, submit it through the peer review process.
If there is truth, it will be published and then you can use it against me like I used evidence against that user.
submit it through the peer review process.
Maybe they will when the research is concluded.
@jv: It is the definition of delusional to discount the decades of medical knowledge that exists in the hope that you'll find some study that currently doesn't exist, that will counter the decades of empirical evidence showing that cannabis is significantly safer than alcohol - when it comes both to the health of the user and the health of society.
An alcoholic can die if they have too much alcohol or withdrawals from not enough. Do you think that's the case with cannabis?
Do you think that's the case with cannabis?
Depends how much you enjoy getting lung cancer.
@jv: Vaporizing cannabis at relatively low temperatures produces no carcinogens or even carbon dioxide/monoxide.
There's also edibles, or using oils/tinctures that also have no carcinogens.
Infact if you were up to date with cannabis medical knowledge, you'll know it's used in oncology to combat chemo sickness and also might combat cancer itself by promoting cell apoptosis in cancerous cells.
https://unitedpatientsgroup.com/blog/apoptosis-cancer-cannab…produces no carcinogens or even carbon dioxide/monoxide.
Sure, keep sucking it into your lungs and believing that…
Tobacco smokers used to believe that too…@jv: I'm talking about dry herb vaporizers, you are welcome to read about how they work and how they differ from liquid based vaporizers.
I'm talking about dry herb vaporizers, you are welcome to read about how they work
I just did…
Research shows that vaporizers can release harmful chemicals into your system.
https://www.healthline.com/health/marijuana-copd-vaping#vapi…
@jv: Yes you can vape at temps that will still release carcinogens but temps required for vaping THC are below that. Benzene vaporizes at 205, while most active compounds in weed vaporize below 200c.
@jv: Ok so that article made no mention at all about dry herb vaping. I suggested to look at the differences between dry herb vaporization and liquid vaporization but you went for an article that states "Vaping involves inhaling a liquid".
The research about liquid vaping does show lung damage. The lung problems associated with vaping liquid THC were due to vitamin E-acetate. That chemical was added to liquid THC to make it more viscous.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/s…Dry herb vaping is very different to liquid 'vaping'. It has no added chemicals. It's the flower picked from the plant and put into a vaporizer with no processing plant material into a liquid or anything.
In addition you still haven't addressed eating it or putting a drop of a tincture under the tongue. Which does contain 0 carcinogens.
If you want to clutch your pearls still then I'm glad that this interaction is public for all to see the arguments that come from people such as yourself, and for them to do their own research.
@studentl0an: I missed the part where how long something is detectable in your person is how we grade it’s danger?
Alcohol stays in the blood up to 80 hours
On average, it takes about one hour to metabolize one standard drink.
https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/how-long-alcohol-s…
From your source: "But some of the results of that process (called metabolites) go into the hair."
So it is not alcohol that remains, but what is left after metabolising alcohol. Same goes for the weed test.
Alcohol causes the most overall harm when you look at both harm to the user and harm to others, than any other drug. It's not even close to being a controversial statement.
Just Say No. Who remembers that ad from the 90s
Who remembers that ad from the 90s
People voting yes here definitely don't remember…
That's one of the side-effects.
Since cannabis is a whole lot safer compared to alcohol
Your premise is wrong..
Whole lot of people who either don't have life experience or are too dishonest to see themselves in the mirror on here. Alcohol is more toxic to your body but doesn't change brain chemistry like marijuana does. Marijuana does not agree with me at all, with a single use felt out of sorts for more than a week and it permanently aggravated my tinnitus. Like anything some people cope ok with it but a blanket statement that it is safer than alcohol is daft. Just because it's not toxic per se, randomly altering your brain is hardly a safe outcome. I'd rather control my alcohol consumption to a reasonable level with no negative effects than take a gamble with my mental health. People also oversimplify the dangers of alcohol. The people I used to know who did the stupidest stuff when drinking were also marijuana users. The people I used to know who got aggressive on alcohol also used speed.
Alcohol absolutely effects your brain chemistry that's what being intoxicated is.
Alcohol causes the brain to release additional dopamine and serotonin which are the neurotransmitters responsible for happiness and feeling good.
Gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter which blocks and prevents neuron signals. It has an effect in so many different parts of the brain, including the Cerebellum, the limbic system and the brain stem. This is why you get slurred speech, a literal sense of inhibition, stumbling and why people pass out when they drink too much.
Alcohol blocks the release of Vasopressin which is the hormone responsible for preventing your kidneys from releasing too much liquid, its why you go to the bathroom so much as well as why you get hungover.
whenever a situation like this occurs in the brain it always has to accommodate later, so because your brain has released an excess of GABA, Dopamine and Serotonin it has caused the receptors that release them to become overworked due to this. because they are overworked they slow down in order to allow them to repair and because of this release less of each neurotransmitter. A lack of Dopamine and Serotonin makes an individual feel sad, down or depressed. A lack of GABA causes anxiety, stress and worry. This causes Alcohol to be addictive because drinking it will make them feel better, excessive use can permanently damage these receptors causing long term issues.
Also this is a classic example of how people on weed are just so relaxed and non-violent (and then beat their friend to death with a cricket bat)
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/i-wanted-haunt…
relaxed and non-violent (and then beat their friend to death with a cricket bat)
It wasn't that long ago that Angry Anderson's son was murdered by his best mate after smoking cannabis…
There, the apprentice plumber was seen "stomping" on Mr Anderson's head and claimed he was hallucinating that his friend was a demon who wanted him dead.
Surprise, surprise:
his defence team argued he was not criminally responsible due to a disease of the mind — schizophrenia.
I wonder how he got schizophrenia?
He was high on alcohol, cannabis, oh and had taken 10 MDMA Tablets which is 10x the safe dosage, anything 10x more than the safe amount will (profanity) a human up, if you drink 10x more water in a day it will probably cause organ damage. In addition he mixed 3 different drugs, to intentionally omit these details and blame the entire incident on Cannabis is blatant cherry picking
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-12/nsw-mathew-flame-foun…
as for how he got schizophrenia I would imagine he got it from a combination of physical, genetic, psychological and environmental factors.
Furthermore studies show that although harmful alcohol and other drug use, particularly cannabis and amphetamine use, may trigger psychosis in people who are vulnerable to developing schizophrenia, substance use (including alcohol) does not directly cause schizophrenia, it is strongly related to relapse. So not only does cannabis not cause schizophrenia its effect in triggering it is the same as alcohols.
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.….
Honestly it seems like you just have a prejudice against cannabis, which is perfectly fine. You should just say that rather than trying to make more of it, omitting important details from a story in order to push your viewpoint is not the way of getting people to support you.
@Ridiculous Panda: fair enough i guess