Soon to be Dad and looking for best deals for streaming services as going to the movies will soon be a thing of the past for me…
Already have most of the essentials. Other than the cloth nappies and a clothes drier (all those dirty nappies!!).
I know that there are plenty of deals out there for things like Stan and Netflix. Just hoping to see some decent free trials that I cab utilise during this expensive few months ..
Thanks in advance :)
As others have said, don't go for the expensive stuff like the ferrari of prams. BigW, KMart have decent stuff… take all the hand me downs you can get.
Ignore all the so-called experts and their tips (especially family).
And lastly…when you're tired and just over it, remember you got yourself into this mess :P
No more sex when kid comes
I see some toys on sale 😈
Should have invested into condoms…
Wait until some girl tries to leg-lock you just as you are about to pull out, gave me a sacre of a lifetime!
hot
Effective use of a torrent client/search engine is an essential skill in this modern world of parenting. You wait till little darling says 'I want the pink unicorn movie!', and you find yourself moving heaven and earth for their obscure taste in viewing.
I would buy a cot and Bassinet off Facebook marketplace. These items have very little value second hand.
Try not to be stingy with a baby car seat though.
IKEA style high chair is the best one and only around $30.
Amazon (with subscribe and save) tends to be cheapest for nappies.
Newborns aren't easy, but it gets easier. Good luck.
Newborns aren't easy, but it gets easier
Different experience for us - newborns easiest - sleep all the time.
Read about attachment parenting and whether you want to do it or not.
Agreed on baby furniture. Decent used stuff holds its value, so if you buy a decent brand cot for $250 on marketplace then you'll sell it for the same price once your kids have outgrown it. Buy a tin of white paint and repaint it if it gets too marked.
Buy two mattress protectors - you'll need a second one to put on when the first is in the wash. Never risk putting them down without a mattress protector, kids can sense this and will take the opportunity to wet through their nappy, or vomit.
Great tip with mattress protector. Cheers.
not just one buy multiple.
I've got a 4 month old.
I've been wanting to watch Tenet since it was released on Blu-ray mid December. I managed to finally watch it last weekend. Unless you like watching movies in parts, you will not have a whole lot of time for movies.
It's a different story with tv shows, I've had heaps of time holding baby on the couch watching TV
I don’t know your situation but that’s what mates are for. Book some relaxing time because kids know if mum/dad isn’t ok.
VPN & Good to go on the WWW tour.
Don't quit your job and post on OZB looking for advice on rental assistance…
Don't buy 80k high yield investment car
Hold on to your job because you can go hungry but you cannot let your kids be hungry. Your risk profile has changed to a conservative one.
second this. And you will start to learn all the crap at work is really nothing. I left my job to look after my first born and thought I would go back to workforce after 6 months. Ended up to be three years with a second kid in tow and was told by one interviewer this stay at home dad thing is not a good view on my career.
My baby girl slept through the night from about 6 weeks on. Had a minor sleep regression at around 3 months, but that was mostly just a battle to get her to go to sleep and she still slept through most nights. But then I've had friends still battling through the night up to 6 months.
I put a comfy rocking chair in the nursery, for rocking baby to sleep and a Nest Hub to put a show on. We tended to alternate who got up, so that way when she woke every ~3 hours in those early stages, we could each get some decent sleep.
For baby number 2 I'll take more time off. I only took 3 weeks, will try to take 6 next time. Hopefully the next one is as good as our first.
COVID gave me 6 months off (WFH kinda sorta not really but i tried) It was great spending so much time with him.
Bargain survival tip #1: Don't watch TV (or don't watch TV too obvious)
I recommend instead of lounging on the couch watching TV use some spare time you have to participate some kind of sport with friends, keep you fit and good for your mental health too
Congrats on the baby and enjoy! It is the hardest but also the best time in your life :)
Good points.
Thank you :)
Never had issue 1, because I watch television WITH my partner, so nothing to hide. I also did all the nappies (basically she did baby's input, I did the output + household shopping + cooking + laundry). I don't think either of us felt the division of labour was unfair, we were both equally shattered.
We did have time to watch some TV. Short programs (like say Schitt's Creek, which has 22 minute episodes) were much better than movies (which became frustrating because it was hard to get a stretch of 100 minutes without interruption).
But the first 6 months were a total blur. Being woken 4 or 5 times during the night, every night, really messes you up. With all the chores + sleep deprivation, there were plenty of days where getting everyone showered and dressed and getting out of the door before 5 pm was a genuine achievement (not even kidding).
Sometimes it's hard to sleep at the same as a baby
(eg when they flake in the morning, and you're like "but I just woke up!"), but we did when we felt we could sleep.
Completely agree exercise when you can is good for both mental and physical health (for even just a little bit, eg some swimming for 15 mins helped me).
RUN
My advice as a father of 3 is the same as others…
Sleep > Netflix
Just remember its only for 1 maybe 2 years, unless you hit the jackpot and get a real champ like our 3rd (PB of a 14hr overnight sleep and usually always between 10-12hrs). Made up somewhat for our nightmare 2nd (5hrs max stint for 2 years).
My mum always whinges that my 3.5yr younger sister slept through the night before I did. She said the only reason she didn't throttle me was because I was an angel during the day.
Our son sleeps really well but my god he is high maintenance when awake. Getting better at self entertaining now at 13mo. Not sure what is better.
Yes. For the first year of our older one's life people would ask how he was and we'd say "He's a great awake baby". He was happy, confident (too much so) - but he couldn't sleep through the night for the first year or more.
Tips:
1. Treat orders from your wife like orders from the Queen.
2. Practice microsleep
Fark. That.
LOL watch movies with a newborn child, mate you really need to talk to other parents and readjust your expectations. Prepare to have your expectations subverted.
yeah no, look at baby bottles, sterilisers, cot, baby thermometer, baby clothes, baby sleeping bags
Don't stock up nappies until you have tried it on your baby. Not all baby body type suit any brand. Unsuitable nappy may leak, create unnecessary rash or make the baby uncomfortable.
Once you found the one, watch any 1/2 price sales and stock up like there's no tomorrow. Newborn will use nappies so frequent you can see your wallet thinning as you throw all those poops to the bin.
Not all baby body type suit any brand.
What ????
Not all baby body type suit any brand.
Oh
Thanks.
Save your money.
You wont have time for movies.
slow drug dealers, stop supplying them kids…
I hate kids, can’t imagine having any. My wife’s phone are wants them but I hate them so much so I make sure to consider having kids after they perish so they don’t get to meet them if I do decide to have kids.
I hate kids, can’t imagine having any
So much anger in that post. How do you manage to live?
Probably a good idea not to bring kids into the world with that attitude anyway.
Time for Stan and Netflix?
It's pretty obvious you haven't been a Dad before.
Congratulations by the way
Yea it's obvious because OP said so in the OP
Youtube premium signed up through a VPN to India. You'd be amazed how much we use this with kids - there's so much kids content on youtube and it's quick and easy - for just a few dollars per month. You only need the VPN to signup - then it charges you a few hundred Rupees a month (~$2.50).
Search for a thing called "baby dots" on youtube. It's not a good regular thing, but for those rare times (lol) that you just can't get them to settle that video sends them into a trance. You need to do what you can to save your sanity.
Prime is worth it because leaving the house becomes harder once you have kids, so being able to order things with free shipping is great.
True wireless earbuds. A $40 set of Soundpeats or something will save you. You can watch TV on your phone while you nurse the baby - without waking them. You can have just one ear in for when you're lying in bed. As a dad who co-sleeps with his toddler these have been magic.
If you switch to disposable nappies (we did) then aldi nappies are just as good or better than huggies - and they're cheaper (sometimes huggies are almost as cheap on sale).
Ultimately, all kids are different. You might get one of those unicorns that eats all it's food, isn't sick, sleeps 14 hours a night, doesn't try to crawl off ledges, etc. Or, you might get one that wakes up every hour, vomits, has alergies, has no fear, etc. The good thing is that most of those baby problems only last the first year or two. Our oldest son had all sorts of food problems when he was young, but now that's he's two the only food problems he has is knowing how to say "no" to things he doesn't want.
YouTube premium through India vpn, good tip.
Prime for free deliveries. Tick.
Earbuds for ipad. Tick.
Disposable nappies. Good tips.
Unicorn child. Agree. And ready for worst case so far.
Cheers for this info.
kmart and target has pretty much all the baby stuff you need. But as first time people all think it's necessary to spend a bit in a baby store lol.
If you want to buy stuff, buy some stuff from IKEA, e.g. furniture or whatever, now if you guys or your baby use it, great, but if not and you seriously just built it and its in the baby room looking like decoration, at least you can take it back to IKEA within 365 days for a full refund.
You'll go through nappy brands, once you find the right one, notice woolies and coles sales, usually for Brand ABC it goes on sale at once then the week after its on the sale for the other, not all the time but most of the times. However keep tabs on sizes, if your baby is on Size 1 for example, make sure you don't go buying 10 bags of Size 1, you buy enough and what you gauge your baby will grow to in 2 weeks or more, they grow fast. Also if they are on sale, it doesn't hurt to be the next size up in anticipating so that when he/she is just about to grow out of Size 1 you'll have Size 2 that you got on sale available.
Just no mate. As a new father with a 3 months old. I don't have much time to game or Netflix at all.
Forget tv, buy beer. Having a cold one at the end of the night is the closest you'll get to relaxation before you pass out. Also, youfoodz is helpful because it's decent food you can eat quickly.
A beer and a youfoodz was my send-off each night once my darling bundle of joy decided to stop torturing me through sleep deprivation.
Also, Aldi nappies are the business. Work a treat.
Yes.. I wa considering someonthing like youfoodz.
Mind you. I have a European wife, so this might not cut it.
Congrats!!!! Eventually maybe the pain of a vasectomy is going to hunt you…..
What's a good baby monitor
Personally I just buy "security cameras". We have three Reolink ones (two kids, plus a third in the living room). Technically they have an alarm function to detect movement, but I find that's not an issue, I just want to be able to see my baby sleeping every now and then, or hear it when it cries.
Alternatively, old phones work. Alfred is a free security camera app (ad supported).
I use foscam cameras, $50 a pop plus will reuse them once the kidlings are grown!
I’m pretty happy with Kodak Cherish C520.
It has two channels. So you can either use the direct link between the camera and the screen. Or you can use the wifi and watch from your mobile phone + screen.
The direct link is useful when you are on a holiday house etc. when there is no wifi or you don’t want to spend time setting things up.
And the camera unit comes with a rechargeable battery which lasts around 4 hours. It helps your mobility a lot.
SLEEP NOW
until the baby comes
you wont sleep much for a while
… make sure to wake up on time for the birth.
better the sleep through it
all that happens is u get screamed at
it's all ur fault
u get strangled
and hit lol
all that happens is u get screamed at
it's all ur fault
u get strangled
and hit lol
Not in a C section.
keep fuel in your tank, add emergency charger like firetrucks do order sign to put up in garden and stickers for your car!
this is so true. you will need to learn how to sleep like a marine when the baby comes. micro sleeps at anywhere any place any position. I would normally doze off when sitting in the baby change room waiting for the wife.
It's not all doom and gloom as some people are trying to portray. Take it as a new challenge (which it is). Support your partner and look after yourself and you'll be right.
The schedule will need to be adjusted on a daily basis, so just be aware of that. Sleep when the baby sleeps (at least one parent, the other can do the chores)… At least both of you won't burn out if you take turns. Ask for help if you have family here that can help.
All the best.
Yup fully agree with RSmith.
Disposable nappies are great. Bin them and move on. No wasted time washing/drying.
Support wifey for breastfeeding and you can try helping out if she expresses a bag/bottle for you.
My tv watching for a 22 month old is Bing/Bluey/Baby Jake on YouTube/ABC Kids.
Support wifey for breastfeeding
Thank God it's not chestfeeding.
Dear god. I had forgotten about baby Jake. So glad I’m past that stage.
Buy a ps4 and witcher 3 - logged 100+ hours after first one was born (did the first wakeup every night).
Bargain survival tip #1: Don't have a kid.
Bargain survival tip #2: See #1
There ain't no saving once a kid comes along.
If you have spare money you could get a maid in a few hours per week, to pick up the slack you guys don’t have time for anymore.
Have a basic baby shower bbq and invite everyone who might be mildly interested in your child, guys and girls.
Even if you provide food and drinks, the mountain of gifts, gift cards and cash you get will eclipse the cost of the bbq.
Don't buy a baby bath.
Life Insurance just incase shit
Not a bargain, but buy the best phone that you want.
You may find its hard to sneak in some "me time" for what you may normally do, eg game, watch youtube/netflix/etc, chatting and a smartphone really does do it all.
It helps if it doesnt lag, takes nice pictures etc.
Note: You don't need the "best", just the best one for you.
A condom would have been the best bargain
2 l8 m8
Congrats mate. In terms of TV, I became first time dad in 2019 and my TV was packed into a box for almost a year. Now its back in my lounge but I will be honest, the only time my TV gets turned in is when feeding my baby. Oh in my head I can still hear "The wheels on the bus goes round and round".
Google Nest Mini + Chromecast has proven useful with a child. You don't need any hands free to play something and can free up your phone.
Our 6 year old put her self to bed for the first time Thursday night, fell straight asleep too lol. Finally was able to watch a live footy game without having to pause etc.
"Entertainment" today is plagued with leftist agendas. If you must inflict their toxic brainwashing on your family at least don't pay them for it.
Torrents are kinda 2007 ish tbh
Lol. I don't care how trendy they are, only how free they are.
Too many honeypots these days. Go ddl
Too many honeypots these days.
I'd never heard of DDL so I looked it up only to realise I already use it for some things. It's just a different but more complicated method of doing the same thing, with all the same 'dangers'. Both methods use websites, so both can inject rogue code on an unprotected system, so both should only be used with a (decent) antivirus.
e.g. Quote: "Even worse is that many of these untested sites are actually dangerous to use." https://medium.com/audiobookreviews-com/best-direct-download…
I also install ad and image blocker browser plugins to remove pron and inane sex game pop up ads (which are on DDL sites too).
Out of interest I just tried a popular movie DDL site. First you have to search for the movie title (same as torrent sites). Then enter a captcha (not required with torrents). Then you get a few pop up windows begging for clicks (not on torrent sites). Close those popups to finally see a screen with download links. There was only one download choice which was split into multiple 500MB rar archives which you have to download then extract and recombine into one video file (none of which is required with torrents). And you can only download one file at a time on free DDL accounts unless you want to risk giving your CC details to someone you already 100% know is a thief for a premium account.
If that wasn't bad enough, most DDL sites like zippyshare, novafile, etc have mind-numbingly slow speeds for free users like 10 to 30KB/s meaning a few hours to download a single 500MB file. But DDL movie sites often have only one search result too, usually multi-gigs in size, split into multiple rar files. So if you happen to have a static IP address, you'd have to wait anything from 1 to 24 hours to download the next file. The movie I clicked on was divided into about 7 rar files of 500MB each. That's anything from most of a day to an entire week of downloading.
As I said I am using it for some things I can't find elsewhere, but not movies LOL… What an over-complicated tedious mess.
I just use the search field on a torrent site, click the magnet link, the actual (single and already mp4, avi, etc format) file starts downloading (no winrar extraction/recombination required first). Then set the torrent client to "download first and last pieces first" and "download in sequential order" if you wish to begin viewing after only a couple of minutes. The rest of the file completes downloading faster than you can view it. (In other words multiple times the speed of DDL sites.) I frequently download new 40 minute/700MB episodes of current series in just a few minutes on Vodafone 4G SIMs.
I only see disadvantages of DDL over torrents. Of course you'd still use DDL if the file isn't available elsewhere. But if given the choice, who wants to download at speeds like 10-30KB/s, over multiple hours or days, install/use winrar to extract, meaning you can't check things like if it's real or fake or embedded Chinese subtitles without downloading every file first, plus download only multi-GB files to view on a laptop or phone then delete. (If it's some weekly series like 'Snowpiercer' or 'Superman & Lois' there's no point in huge resolutions.)
@belongsinforums: I use both for different things so I don't know how anyone could conclude that, but ok. e.g. Here's the rough average speeds of several DDL sites:
Nitroflare 20 KiB/s
Novafile 30 KiB/s
ddownloader 50 KiB/s
Tezfiles 50 KiB/s
Uploaded.to 50 KiB/s
Turbobit 60 KiB/s
Katfile 100 KiB/s
Rapidgator 100 KiB/s
Anonfiles 200 KiB/s
Clicknupload 510 KiB/s
Mexa 980 KiB/s
Some you have to wait an hour between files, others 24 hours. I'm only aware of one (Texfiles) that can download two files at once and supports pause/resume. (That's another big negative against DDL sites. If a 500MB Novafile download drops out at 495MB you have to start again from 0MB. As well as an IP and cookies/cache reset. This problem doesn't exist with torrents.)
Further down the list are obviously faster. But most DD index sites don't use the ones above 100 KiB/s because they don't make as much (or any) money from your clicks. So the most commonly used are Nitroflare, Novafile, Uploaded, Turbobit, and Rapidgator.
For weeks now I've been downloading files that happen to be on Novafile. It typically takes 5-6 hours to download a 500MB file. And while torrents often have several choices of video compression giving a wide range of file sizes all the way down to 150MB for a 40 minute TV series episode, DDL index sites often have only one choice which is usually 1GB, 4GB, or even larger for Blueray rips… meaning multiple 500MB files to download, one a time, over several hours or days. I could instead download a full size DVD ISO via qbittorrent in minutes, with pause/resume, and start viewing it a couple of minutes after starting the DL.
As a test I just browsed the new movie files section on tpb. At the top was: "The Seventh Day 2021" @ 1.33GB. So DDL sites would usually divide that into 3 files (500MB + 500MB + 330MB). That would take 7 to 10 hours via DDL, but only if you can obtain a new IP address with a modem reset between each file downloaded. If not, the DDL site will make you wait at least another hour before starting the next file.
Then I added it to qbittorrent instead. Which shows it would take about 25 minutes. Compared to DDL of: 500MB (5-6 hours) + 500MB (another 5-6 hours) + 330MB (final 3.5 to 4 hours) making a total of 14 + hours.
@[Deactivated]: It's not about the speed. It's more about the seed. But mega consistently has download speeds over a meg a second
@belongsinforums: LOL, Ok. I tend to think when the choice is between minutes or days, speed just might become a deciding factor for 99% of people.
Regarding the number of seeds sharing a file, I never said DDL is completely useless… But no-one in their right mind would choose to spend several days downloading something that's also available as a torrent in < 30 minutes. If the difference were an hour, maybe then… but not days, and not with a static IP (which more ISPs than not have nowdays).
And the problem with Mega is, most DDL index sites don't use it. They WANT your download to take as long as possible, hoping you'll get fed up with the slow speed and buy a premium account after clicking one of their files which earns them a commission. The only place I regularly see Mega used is for things like scanned magazines, or things shared by individuals in forums… never DDL sites because they're chasing a commission.
There are other reasons too why DDL is a clunky drawn-out pain in the neck. e.g. I've lost count of the number of times I've loaded a bunch of rar files into JDownloader, only to find one file has a CRC error no matter how many times you download it. Or due to how long it takes to download a complete set of rar files, one or more files gets reported and deleted.
Suggest the Google TV with Netflix $139 deal. Includes 6 months of Netflix standard tier ($15.99).
You can tag on Disney+ and Amazon Prime using either the monthly or annual subs.
Checkout this review of the streaming services in the US. Will explain my suggestions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7yVh703PHM
Great tip. Ty
congrats. it’s cute you think you will have tv time for next few months though.
Everyone contradicts each other because they are repeating what worked for them.
Ignore them (and me). Read and listen if you want, but do what works for you and your partner.
TV is fine. Learn to pause and come back once the partner or child's needs are met.
Pick the streaming service that works for you. Sharing between family members in different houses is against the terms of service. I am not sure why I am mentioning this. Some families might post here to organise sharing an account (and cost) across their house hold.
If you live in a country with lower wages you might find some international streaming services are cheaper in your home country. If you are on holiday in Australia you might need to use a paid VPN to access those prices, making a non Australian account less cost effective.
Youtube Kids is awesome for kids content. Many long running series have hour+ compilations uploaded. Netflix sucks as they have a 'Are you still watching' check every four episodes and Disney+ sucks having an 18 second delay before automatic play back, often started AFTER the credits….
Avoid cloth nappies unless you have a poo fetish. Aldi nappies are awesome. Coles branded nappies are great too, as long as you use one size bigger (exact size leaks big poos and overnight wees). Some people swear by Huggies. My experience is they are slightly softer but don't hold as much as Aldi or Coles brands. Other brands I have tried resulted in poo or wee leaks.
If you must use cloth because of the environment, remember that those supporting studies use minimal, eco friendly washing powder on the quickest cold wash and line dry. Great if you don't mind poo stains and live in the outback. Environmentally the impact of disposables is about the same, plus you can put them in scented, air tight nappy bags to avoid the poo smell. Win win. The person promoting reusable nappies at the hospital is usually employed by council to promote 'sustainable programs' or often sells them themself. Crashing a maternity course and virtue shaming your wife into buying them is an easy way to hit their KPI on engagement.
If you want to go cloth for the cost, Aldi and Coles nappies ran me about $20 per week inc. wet wipes and bags. To save money on cloth you would need to be spending ~$5 each up front (you would want at least 30), presoak in bleach (so white cloth, not modern press studded), wash on cold in bulk and line dry. Your pay back would around three months (including nappies, powder and energy for the washing machine). If you wash more often, use a dryer and/or hot water you would struggle to se any cost benefit.
If you want to go cloth because some jerk is shaming you, ask them to come by and pick up the dirty nappies and return them fresh and folded. As everyone else has said, free time is of a premium for the first year. If you want to waste 30 minutes a day playing with poo to 'do the right thing' consider what an extra 30 minutes of free time, sleep or even play time with baby would do for your partner's mental health.
As for the pram, it is unfortunately a rite of passage for most woman to buy a new, over the top pram. You can get them barely used off Facebook 50% to 90% off if you search for wealthy suburbs. In inner city suburbs they are often a primary source of transport so can be heavily used. People there tend to be 'savvy' so will want most of the purchase price back for their heavily used prams.
If your partner must have new, random brand names from established online retailers can be another way to reduce costs. But if she must have new and a brand name I have no advice (separation over wasting money on a pram is warranted, but unfortunately not socially acceptable /s).
Buying clothes in bulk from nice neighborhoods is another great way to save. Most 'wealthy' people could not be bothered spending time sorting baby clothes or selling items individually and will often just sell buy size for 1% to 10% of the purchase price.
But do what works for you and your partner and avoid people who demand you do things their way. Your partner's mental health and your kid's development is more important than tiny, meaningless optimisations.
Good luck. It's a change but sleep changes aren't as bad as most people make out unless you are extremely unlucky.
Huggies ultimate are the go…
Were the go, no longer. Avoid at all costs, go with Aldi, Babylove.
Third kid in with the aldi but bubs gets rashes from them, there's also no leaks from the ultimate.
Why are they no go?
Buy the ikea high chair. Easy to clean, and is cheap. Fancy chairs are a waste of money, with food getting stuck in hinges etc
Big congrats to you both.
There are some good tips already.
In addition, think about joining a parenting group as well.
This will help learning from experiences of others.
Also, if you have elder siblings, who are willing to help, get them over for the initial couple of weeks atleast.
Parents/ in-laws are very helpful, as they are the ones who raised you 😁
Don't worry, you will enjoy parenthood.
All the best.
Get some rescue chickens…. the amount of food you throw out with babies is crazy.
Make sure you have an automatic car, the amount of times you’re driving and you have to pick up a dummy or toy that they throw away, and 10 seconds later they can’t live with out it!
Enjoy
Firstly, congratulations!
Secondly, my biggest money saving tip is this: when you get sick of cloth nappies and move to disposables exclusively (and you will), our experience was to use Aldi nappies during the day and Huggies at night. Huggies are fantastic, never had one leak, even with the Number 3 (you'll learn soon enough). But they are expensive. Aldi nappies are half the cost and good enough when they can be changed frequently.
Enjoy the ride!
We have been lucky, ALDI nappies all the way, night and day, no leak in 2 years.
Make sure you support mum as much as you can. It's a tough journey, no one tells you how to do it right. You will need to start learning how to become selfless, I struggled with this the most. If you can work that out, it becomes easier. Movies, games, and all that stuff will come in time. But, don't make the mistake of putting any of that first. Baby and mum first. You will start to work out your own routine and any leaking time you can spend on yourself. Make sure you check in with mum all the time. Ask how you are going etc.
The rest will follow.
I don't mean to make it sound as if dad is not important, but if you follow 1 and 2, dad will then be looked after.
Plenty of high quality high end baby stuff on gumtree and marketplace. There isn't really a need to buy new as these items can sometimes be months old or a year old.
Hopefully you have a big family or friends who already have children so you may be a dumping ground of handy downs.