Title case is a terrible default

ozbargainsam on 04/04/2021 - 15:47

A forum/community as refined and mature as this can appreciate this feedback:

Title case is a sin. Please stop it.

I'll use the example used to highlight capitalisation and comma use:

I helped my uncle jack off the horse

I Helped my Uncle Jack off the Horse

Totally ruins the joke.

But more seriously, capitalisation is only for the first word of a sentence, or for proper nouns. Once You Start Capitalising Random Words, you start to destroying meaning.

I ate an Apple in the Apple Store.

Did I eat an iPhone or what?

Side note: I have actually noticed this earlier and I did pedantically go back and de-titled cased my forum post after a certain Power User 'fixed' it.

Site Discussion

Comments

  • Nugs on 04/04/2021 - 16:05
    +36

    mmmkay
    .

  • ModdySwag on 04/04/2021 - 16:07
    +35

    iS tHIS oK ?!?

  • FocusRider on 04/04/2021 - 16:07
    +12

    Dafuq?

    Is this a serious or joke "tag"

    • Hybroid on 04/04/2021 - 18:44
      +3

      Gotta be a troll post looking at their own posts.

      Fixed Wireless, Need Cheap Landline Plan

      A Car for Older People

      AmEx Statement Credit Offers: Partial Refund but above $500 Remaining

      Or a pathetic case of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

      • ozbargainsam on 05/04/2021 - 11:44
        +9

        Cherry picked examples, sure. But if you've ever made a post before, OzB automatically suggests the title case option to you before submitting it. So those posts would've been submitted before I cared to change it.

        • airtime on 05/04/2021 - 19:23
          +9

          In my limited posting experience - I have had the title of my post edited to change the 1st letter of each word to uppercase. I had specifically used correct case across the title, ignoring the suggestion. OzB for some reason decided the title had to be in title case and changed it about 10 minutes or so after I posted.

          I can see some people think title case has more impact. Language evolves over time I guess. However, I prefer to use uppercase in the same manner as the OP : For the 1st word in a sentence and for any proper nouns. Otherwise everything else should be lowercase.

          • timmypete on 06/04/2021 - 21:48
            +2

            @airtime: Agree with OP, and have had similar frustrating experiences to airtime where overzealous mods have 'corrected'.

  • Godric on 04/04/2021 - 16:12
    +1

    Bored?

  • JimmyF on 04/04/2021 - 16:13
    +15

    RUOK?

  • Yummy on 04/04/2021 - 16:41
    +3

    Not enuf easter choc ey?

    • mapax on 04/04/2021 - 18:17
      +2

      Perhaps too many liqueur chocolates?

  • EightImmortals on 04/04/2021 - 17:15
    +2

    "Look on the road ahead!"
    "Look on the road, a head!"

    • endotherm on 05/04/2021 - 01:24
      +1

      What is this thing called "love"?
      What is this thing called, love?

      (an old Benny Hill joke).

  • PensionerXXL on 04/04/2021 - 17:22
    +3

    resume:

    typing really good on ozb, i lead by example and with my helmet i can run real fast at walls

  • dasher86 on 04/04/2021 - 17:23
    +11

    Once You Start Capitalising Random Words, you start to destroying meaning.

    You mean destroy meaning, right?

    • ozbargainsam on 05/04/2021 - 21:21
      +11

      Ah you got me. My entire thesis is moot.

      /thread

      • jinny7 on 06/04/2021 - 11:12
        +3

        "I'll use the example used to highlight capitalisation and comma use"

        Neither example contains commas either…

  • Muzeeb on 04/04/2021 - 17:33
    +12

    I agree op

    • spackbace on 04/04/2021 - 18:09
      +7

      So when are you changing to "ms paint"?

      • gakko on 07/04/2021 - 10:57

        Nouns

  • spackbace on 04/04/2021 - 18:09
    +2

    Losing meaning of forum titles?

    Allllllllllllllrighty then

  • pegaxs on 04/04/2021 - 18:24
    +16

    A title is not a sentence. A title is a title. What comes after the title is the sentence.

    From what I remember, nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs all need to be capitals if it is in a title.

    • spackbace on 04/04/2021 - 18:30
      +8

      OP seems entitled

      Maybe we should sentence him to some punishment. Do we have any case history to go off?

      • brendanm on 05/04/2021 - 12:32
        +9

        Steady on jv

      • kaleidoscope on 05/04/2021 - 23:45
        +2

        you forgot to switch accounts jv 😀

    • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2021 - 18:38
      +4

      You are right, OP is not.

      https://proofreadmydocument.com.au/writing-tips/headings-tit…

      • pegaxs on 04/04/2021 - 19:05
        +4

        Doesn't say much for OP if I'm just a dumb arse and I knew it.

        Makes a nice change when OP is wrong and it's not about a traffic incident/infringement…

      • jazoom on 05/04/2021 - 08:12
        +3

        All that says is what title case is, which OP obviously knows. Their contention is it is pointless and destroys meaning. I agree with that.

        It'll probably disappear soon enough, like many other English writing conventions already have.

      • kiitos on 05/04/2021 - 15:48
        +3

        As a counter example, the Australian government style guide prefers sentence case for titles.

        https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/style-rules-and-conventions/g…

        • bmerigan on 07/04/2021 - 13:57

          So does my employer

    • fredblogs on 05/04/2021 - 16:14

      Also, OP messed up the title of his post. It should read, "Title Case is a Terrible Default".

  • 88mph on 04/04/2021 - 18:36

    Betty Botter bought some Butter
    But she said the Butter’s bitter
    If I put it in my batter, it will make my batter bitter
    But a bit of better Butter will make my batter better
    So it was better Betty Botter bought a bit of better Butter

  • SBOB on 04/04/2021 - 18:43
    +4

    iThinkAllForumPostsShouldBeInCamelCase…..

  • bdl on 04/04/2021 - 18:56

    Title Case is a Terrible Default

  • Topdog on 04/04/2021 - 19:10

    I think someone might of been on the glass pipe

    • afoveht on 04/04/2021 - 23:08
      +1

      Forget title case, this is terrible.

    • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 06/04/2021 - 11:49
      +2

      *have

      • bmerigan on 07/04/2021 - 13:59

        I agree. I think of it as "bogan speak"

    • cashless on 06/04/2021 - 14:28
      +2

      Top dog, bottom in written English

  • Payne on 04/04/2021 - 19:22
    +5

    Welcome to the title case vs sentence case religious debate!

    It's a style guide thing. Difference sites have different preferences. People who work in writing online content for a living can't even agree on this.

    The UK Government, Australian Government and Wikipedia advocate for minimal capitalisation, particularly for online content. Apparently this makes it more readable, because people tend to skim read online content and using too many capital letters makes this harder.

    But it's still a preference thing. So the owners of OzBargain can do whatever they like :)

    • Ghost47 on 05/04/2021 - 20:57
      +2

      Ain’t that the truth. Read an article the other day that said sentence case comes across as friendlier and casual and is more suitable for web content (and vice-versa in that title case is more suitable for printed copy).

      I for one didn’t even realise using sentence case in titles is even a thing, never used sentence case in titles or headings up until recently, where the company’s style guide dictates using sentence case in titles.

      Either way, the main thing is consistency.

      • ozbargainsam on 05/04/2021 - 21:20
        -1

        Consistency is a thing, but they can also be wrong. There are proper nouns that are words, such as:

        • The Age (newspaper)
        • The Natural Confectionary Company
        • The Australian Ballet Company

        If you use them in title case, it's ambiguous if it's talking about some 'ballet company' or some 'confectionary company' instead of the company of that name.

        The Natural Confectionary Company Has Been Bought By Cadbury

        vs.

        The Natural Confectionary Company has been bought by Cadbury.

        • Ghost47 on 05/04/2021 - 23:04

          Who are you referring to when you say "they can be wrong"?

          Those examples are actually pretty clear IMO so I don't think those are the best to convey your argument. Although in that example of title case I probably wouldn't capitalise "by".

          If a company's name was used in everyday language, for example their name is "This Company" (which is a really stupid name for a company IMO) then sure, this is ambiguous:

          This Company Increased Its Profits by 200% in 2020

          Whereas this is less ambiguous:

          This Company increased its profits by 200% in 2020

          But does it happen often where a company has a silly name like that? Because if I was desperate to read about "This Company" and not some other random company then it could be frustrating if I clicked on it and it was about some random company.

  • petry on 04/04/2021 - 19:28
    +2

    weird - suggest look at ex us president tweets for guidance on the matter…

    • bmerigan on 07/04/2021 - 14:01

      This whole debate is fake news by the Dems.

      • petry on 07/04/2021 - 14:23
        -1

        dems have a different name to republicans -but they both generate fake news. one thing that won't shift is fauci.

        fauci paid for bat research at 2 labs 1 being in europe. Terrible acccident in the euro lab apparently in 2018 - deaths etc.

        covid samples in europe from 2019 - investigations of 2nd lab zero. That lab will never be investigated for real, and fauci will be protected by the white house by both yank arms as predicted. trump hated him but had to protect him - very funny really.

        • bmerigan on 07/04/2021 - 17:30

          What the actual f did I just read

          • petry on 07/04/2021 - 19:31

            @bmerigan: fauci - american head of bio research commissioned multiple studies of bat dna from 2015/16 after sars - didn't you know this fact? 2 labs were used by the americans - one of them is in europe…

            maybe uncle rupert didn't include it in his jackanory media sessions?

            america keeps it darpa bio warfare investments following 9/11 out of the news - but even some republicans refer to him as the father of covid I saw recently..

            'DARPA - DARPA’s Biological Technologies Office develops capabilities that embrace the unique properties of biology—adaptation, replication, complexity—and applies those features to revolutionize how the United States defends the homeland and prepares and protects its Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines. BTO is helping the Department of Defense expand technology-driven capabilities to detect novel threats and protect U.S. force readiness, deploy physiological interventions to maintain operational advantage, support warfighter performance, and focus on operational biotechnology for mission success. '

            It develops biological weapons and then develops vaccinations programmes against the weapons it invents….sound familiar yet?

            • bmerigan on 07/04/2021 - 20:24

              @petry: Why on earth would I care that someone researched bats?
              Researchers are looking at mammoth DNA too.

              • petry on 08/04/2021 - 00:22

                @bmerigan: the bat dna sequence is what makes covid special, so the fact you don't care about why the yanks wanted to play with it so badly, as opposed to anyone else prev-covid, is of no concern to anyone.

                I agreed with you originally, and added the fact that the dems spread fake news just the same as Trump. The dems were in control when Fauci placed all his chinese bat orders.

                • bmerigan on 08/04/2021 - 10:18

                  @petry: Divergence dates between SARS-CoV-2 and the bat sarbecovirus reservoir were estimated as 1948 (95% highest posterior density (HPD): 1879–1999), 1969 (95% HPD: 1930–2000) and 1982 (95% HPD: 1948–2009), indicating that the lineage giving rise to SARS-CoV-2 has been circulating unnoticed in bats for decades.

                  Quote from a scientific article in nature.com

                  When people start "fact rants" stringing together disparate things to try to make a cohesive thought I just roll my eyes and wonder what it's like to go through life thinking any authority figure is out to get you.

                  • petry on 08/04/2021 - 11:56
                    -2

                    @bmerigan: I don't think you know what you are talking about but your attempts to denigrate are duly noted. Your vietnamese master may be satisfied.

                    • bmerigan on 08/04/2021 - 12:29

                      @petry: True, I'm not a genetics researcher and do literally have no idea about this topic. I bow to your YouTube led research.

                      • petry on 08/04/2021 - 12:34

                        @bmerigan: nope peer reviewed journals but clearly your only interest is in being abusive.

  • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2021 - 02:39
    +5

    I am 100% with you OP. There are numerous other inexplicably archaic things that OzB 'does' to text 'by default' that only serve to render posting herein extremely tedious/laborious. I shudder to think how many peeps simply don't bother to post at all because of the outdated/prehistoric nature of the systems in operation.

    For example, why "tf" can't posts simply be typed in 'Word' (italics/bold/etc. and all), then pasted into an OzB post with those things retained? Numerous other websites are perfectly capable of supporting this very basic level of (1990s-type) functionality, but not OzB. Instead, us users are shackled with a tedious system involving ludicrously complex almost algebraic constructions requiring the precise placement of asterisks (etc.). It beggars belief, and many years ago when I first joined the website I optimistically assumed such things would be rationalised within a few months.

    Sadly not. Posting in this website remains a bit like posting in what in the 1980s were called 'bulletin boards' …

    • SBOB on 05/04/2021 - 06:27

      Maybe because its not designed for essay length posts?

      If your typing something out where you need to go to word to draft it up first, it's most likely too long/ranty/unsuitable/unnecessary for ozb forum

      • ltwo on 05/04/2021 - 11:40
        +1

        you're*

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2021 - 16:46
        +2

        Yo SBOB, re:

        '… it's most likely too long/ranty/unsuitable/unnecessary for ozb forum'

        You are erroneously presuming to speak for the entire OzB community when you 'declare' what is and isn't suitable for them to read. Note this recent post that you would evidently deem 'too long/ranty/unsuitable/unnecessary for ozb forum':

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/614511#comment-10290197

        Fifteen OzB users who read it clearly disagree with you, and I think it is likely that the OP will ultimately find the information it contains useful as well. Many peeps clearly like to read (and post their own) long and informative posts. The fact that you evidently prefer 'Tweet-type one-liners/thought bubbles' rather than substantial/informative content does not mean that everyone else prefers that as well.

        • SBOB on 05/04/2021 - 17:14
          -2

          Sure.. it contained useful dot points/response info.
          You could have easily included the same info in less words… the post is an entire page long on my laptop screen… an ENTIRE page…
          Plenty of other forum users manage to write useful, well 'up-voted' responses in significantly less words.

          More words does not always correlate to a quality post.

          "Talk less, Smile more"

          • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2021 - 18:43
            +1

            @SBOB: You missed the point, which was that many OzB members like reading and writing long/detailed posts, and you do not speak for those users when you declare that the posts of others should be shorter. If reading a 'whole page' is beyond you or not to your liking, the solution is simple … don't. You should not presume that you know what's best for other people though, or how long their posts should be.

      • Ghost47 on 05/04/2021 - 23:55

        If your typing something out where you need to go to word to draft it up first, it's most likely too long/ranty/unsuitable/unnecessary for ozb forum

        That's a really silly thing to say. What's wrong with making a draft in Word or Notes for example in case you accidentally close the page (such as if you have a lot of tabs open and are moving between them using your mouse and accidentally close it — not really far fetched IMO) or in case you accidentally navigate to a new webpage by clicking a link on and lose what you typed? I know it's happened to me on occasion (not strictly on OzBargain either).

        Some people put pride into their posts/comments and like to ensure they convey as much information as possible, and if their posts/comments end up being long winded, what gives you the right to criticise them for it? If you're not bothered to read a long post/comment (or dare I say, too lazy) and don't have anything good to say except to throw stones I would simply say — move on.

        I wouldn't say OzBargain is "not designed for essay length posts" but more that long format posts are not the norm on internet forums where some people expect instant gratification.

    • ceroau on 05/04/2021 - 06:46
      -1

      Just want to reinforce what the other person said if you’re needing to put something in word first or if it needs that level of formatting it really doesn’t belong on ozbargain. These forums may cover other topics but it is predominately a place to discuss bargains not a place for your blog/live journal/fan fiction/manifesto, whatever the hell you’re trying to write.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2021 - 16:48
        +1

        cero:

        As per the comment above, you clearly do not speak for a great many OzB users, and you should not erroneously presume to.

    • gakko on 07/04/2021 - 11:02
      +1

      People getting their knickers in a knot about it being not a big deal seem to simultaneously be vigorously defending the status quo. Make your mind up y'all is it not a big deal or do you like title case.

      Personally I (profanity) hate title case.

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 05/04/2021 - 08:34

    They’re their. Two bad to sad. Your going two have too get used to people being inept with simple grade 5 English.

  • Peck on 05/04/2021 - 11:42

    Suit case yourself and zip it up. :o)

  • This Guy on 05/04/2021 - 19:03

    Is your uncle a vet? I hear war does strange things to a man.

  • DiscoJango on 05/04/2021 - 20:22
    +1

    Louis vutton gold plated super soaker.

  • Weezle on 05/04/2021 - 21:11

    I want some of the drugs that you're having OP

  • dust on 05/04/2021 - 21:15
    +1

    For what it's worth OP I agree with you. And I've also been annoyed with a power user who changed one of my titles to title case but it's not my website so not my choice.

  • wizzlesticks on 05/04/2021 - 22:03
    +2

    OP is right. The new Australian writing style manual (well, new as in since more than 10 years ago) stipulates that unnecessary capitalisation is just as bad as having no punctuation at all. So OzBargain is making us all look a little more uneducated due to the forced uppercasing of almost every word in the title.

    Incidentally there are other aspects to correct writing styles which Australian employers look for, especially government employers. They include things such as writing out numbers in word form if they are at the start of a sentence. Or using 'one' instead of '1', etc. The manual also says to do away with EG (example) and IE (that is), and just use the non-abbreviated words in English.

    Source: https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/

    • ozbargainsam on 05/04/2021 - 22:11
      +2

      Thanks for the reference.

      To be clear for everyone else, I'm not trying to be prescriptive here. It's just that title casing is objectively wrong, regardless of styleguides.

      I'm sure you can probably save yourself some code/bugs/blah if you just remove that little 'toTitleCase' PHP function and the state management of that 'has been suggested title case option' message.

  • endolphin on 05/04/2021 - 23:21

    I'm far more concerned about the absolute death of full stops. What is with that?

    • ozbargainsam on 05/04/2021 - 23:58
      -1

      Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  • kaleidoscope on 05/04/2021 - 23:46
    +1

    Titles aren’t sentences.

    • ozbargainsam on 06/04/2021 - 00:01
      -1

      In case you're serious: this isn't about rules, what is what. I'm arguing that title case, and the forum's explicit auto-title-casing of a post title is wrong.

      • kaleidoscope on 06/04/2021 - 08:30

        Go easy on that ;). Other alternative you can get around is to make the title slightly different with choice of words so it’s not misleading with title case.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 05/04/2021 - 23:47

    Funny Joke

  • SF3 on 06/04/2021 - 00:15
    -2

    A Covfefe problem.

  • Loopholio on 06/04/2021 - 08:16

    I helped my uncle Jack, off the horse.

    Fixed that for you ( ▀ ͜͞ʖ▀)

    • Tnetennba on 06/04/2021 - 09:04
      +2

      Comma is not needed there. It helps force a pause but in my professional opinion it is not technically correct (the only kind of correct that matters).

      • capslock janitor on 06/04/2021 - 10:48

        Thank you, 01189998819991197253.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 06/04/2021 - 12:37
        +1

        Loopy:

        The comma here is contextually incorrect/misleading because it erroneously implies that you helped your uncle Jack with something unrelated to the horse while he happened to be 'off the horse'. For example:

        'Both were totally exhausted and utterly parched upon their arrival, and required assistance even just to drink some water. My aunt Mary could not even get off her horse at first, so I helped her drink some water while she was still on the horse. I helped my uncle Jack, off the horse.'

        Alas you fixed nothing Loopy, apart from an impression upon my mind that you do not understand the correct use of commas ;-P

        • Loopholio on 07/04/2021 - 09:39

          Oh snap, you are completely correct!

  • syousef on 06/04/2021 - 08:26
    -4

    You're on a forum.

    Or better yet, ur on a forum

    This isn't an essay. It isn't a book. It isn't a legal document. This is an informal exchange of ideas. You're not their teacher or professor or publisher. You don't get to dictate how other people write.

    • syousef on 07/04/2021 - 20:58
      -1

      Of course this was down-voted. By people who no doubt routinely make mistakes when they post or reply.

  • Herbse on 06/04/2021 - 09:22
    +2

    School holidays already?

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