Employer Has Changed Our 'break' Time from 30 Mins Unpaid to 60 Mins Unpaid, Is This Legal?

[Deactivated] on 25/04/2021 - 21:28
Last edited 26/04/2021 - 09:58 by 1 other user

Recently started a new job about 3 months ago, with a company that took won a new contracting gig in South Australia.
When I was offered the job and accepted, any shift that was scheduled for over 5 hours we have to take an unpaid 30 min break- we've had this in place for the last 3 months.

They've just announced that we must now take a 60 minute unpaid break if our shifts are over 6 hours.
We are of course, pretty upset by this as it adds up over the year and can't quite understand if they are allowed to do this.

Does any one know if this is legally possible in Australia? To just change our break and significantly impact our estimated income? We are on permanent part time and guaranteed 20 hours a week.

Thanks for any input/ help!

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Comments

        • baskinghobo on 27/04/2021 - 13:44
          +5

          Could you please reply again by attacking my argument instead of generalizing a whole generation?

          • ThithLord on 27/04/2021 - 13:47
            +2

            @baskinghobo: lol unlikely, mate - that's all Magnastar has at their disposal.

            • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 13:53
              -1

              @ThithLord: Sounds like someone is mad they couldn’t win an argument and gave up. Typical snowflake.

          • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 13:52

            @baskinghobo: I’ll try. Your argument about your generation sticking up for yourselves when asked to do a little bit extra for nothing goes a long way as to why there is no such thing as job security and an easy way onto the property ladder these days.

            Boomers didn’t whinge about working a few extra minutes, and they kept their jobs for years, and lived much less insecure lives. Seems like a better trade off then whinging about a few extra minutes and worrying about losing your job at any moment.

            • baskinghobo on 27/04/2021 - 15:18
              +2

              @Magnastar: I don't pretend a lot of people in my generation act quite entitled. But the fact is companies don't reward loyalty anymore. Globalization has reduced the number of small to medium sized businesses that used to exist. These days more people are employed by large corporations who's only interest is a profit motivated one and this has pretty much eliminated the bond that used to exist between employees and employers. Competition has become so fierce now for a lot of these small to medium sized businesses that they are forced to micro manage every aspect of their employees work to maximize profit with little to no care given about their employees well being.

              In some industries wage theft has become so widespread that it's now seen as normal. Because the profit margins are so thin and because everyone else is engaging in the same thing, if you're not committing wage theft than you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage. My point is employees are not loyal anymore because most employers don't value their employees anymore. It works both ways.

              If I worked for a small business that always went the extra mile for me I would happily stick around and work the extra odd hours for free if needed. But in Op's case, if they try to micro manage every aspect of my work for their own financial benefit than I will happily do the same.

              • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 16:18
                +1

                @baskinghobo: Well you’ve made many strong arguments there especially about globalisation and profit margins having no doubt contributed to a shift in attitudes between employers and employees from what it once was. But a lot of industries are also able to tap into a desperate workforce of overseas people willing to get paid far less under the table which in turn makes an employer more than happy to give a kid on award wages the flick when they start whinging about being asked to do something extra, so in the end if you like your job it’s not the end of the world doing a bit extra and building trust and respect with an employer rather being seeing as a lazy whinging kid who’s only in it for themselves.

                • baskinghobo on 27/04/2021 - 17:13

                  @Magnastar: I actually agree with you on that. If you enjoy your job then your employer docking 30mins out of pay isn't the end of the world and besides life isn't all about money. Although I would still try and negotiate within reason because everything is negotiable and they are clearly morally in the wrong here. But when it comes to these sorts of issues there's usually not much you can do unless you are willing to leave.

    • humphrey623 on 27/04/2021 - 14:10
      +3

      So you take pride in the fact that you were taken advantage of by your employer in your youth? You think being exploited is a badge of honour? Young people today are just as interesting and resilient as prior generations, but they are dealing with the consequences of people my age and older monetising and magnifying some of the worst aspects of humanity.

      • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 14:21

        I don’t take pride in it, and I also don’t look at it as being taken advantage of. Whilst I worked through my break unpaid a lot, it also gave me an opportunity to learn new skills helping other chefs prep for dinner service which allowed me to complete my trade competencies and finish my apprenticeship much earlier. So while a 16yr old in 2021 would cry outrage at being asked to do what I did, they’ll still be there trying to get qualified long after the same amount of time I did.

        Everything is a trade-off. You can either work hard and put a bit extra in now and benefit in the long-term, or you can whinge about everything and get the absolute minimum and miss out on many other opportunities you’ll never have known were there.

        • humphrey623 on 27/04/2021 - 17:20
          +2

          'Everything is a trade-off. You can either work hard and put a bit extra in now and benefit in the long-term, or you can whinge about everything and get the absolute minimum and miss out on many other opportunities you’ll never have known were there.'

          Right, if your position relies upon a completely false dichotomy of extremes it's not a strong position at all. There's a whole lot of middle ground between your original statement (working an extra 12 hours a week unpaid was virtuous) and your description of the alternative ('whinge about everything…').

          • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 17:29

            @humphrey623: So what in your mind is the middle ground? Be a hard worker but refuse to do anything extra if asked? That kind of writes off the hard work part because you’re more remembered for stepping up and doing the extras when needed than you are for just doing your actual job,

            • humphrey623 on 27/04/2021 - 17:47

              @Magnastar: A healthy workplace involes employees who work hard and healthily, and expend what's called 'discretionary effort' for their own satisfaction and the benefit of their employer. In the same way, the employer expends great energy in protecting the wellbeing of their workers and recognising and compensating them justly.

              • Magnastar on 27/04/2021 - 17:59

                @humphrey623: Well that sounds really nice in theory, but I’ve never seen it work that way. Perhaps that’s what the problem here is, your idea of an ideal healthy workplace is the same as most young kids and if they don’t get that then their employers are apparently toxic and exploitative.

                Discretionary effort says it all. If you’re asked to do extra overtime, it’s usually because it’s necessary and immediate, not so much a nice little idea that they would appreciate your participation in if you just happen to be feeling in a generous mood and willing to sacrifice your precious time for.

    • terrys on 29/04/2021 - 10:09

      So you didn't join the union or stand up for yourself.

    • Betamaxx1 on 29/04/2021 - 10:10
      +1

      Magnastar gives the best definition of bootlicker in their reply that i have ever read…

  • Logical on 26/04/2021 - 21:34
    +1

    This is quite legal. OP mentions some kind of 'contracting gig' which signifies to me that it is a labour intensive job that is being carried out. The employer may have recognised the need for safety on site and is of the view that a 1 hour rest period will refresh and recharge the employees a lot better thereby increasing safety and productivity. We have implemented a very similar thing on our major project. The OP is basically having 30 minutes cut from a normal shift for which they will not get paid… so basically reduced working hours.

    OP:
    - is there an Award that covers your industry?
    - are you Full Time/ Casual/ Contract worker?
    - How many shifts and hours do you do per week?

  • ChickenTalon on 26/04/2021 - 22:27

    Take the extra 30min break at the end of your shift. Done

    • Logical on 26/04/2021 - 23:30
      +1

      Will most likely cost the OP their job, but yeah why not, give it a go.

  • AustriaBargain on 26/04/2021 - 22:56
    +10

    They probably want to keep you early and later in the day for essential work, but just wanted to find a way to save money in the middle of the day when your work is less essential but you still need to be around to continue your after noon work.

    • Logical on 26/04/2021 - 23:33
      -1

      or the extra 30 minute break allows a person to have a proper unrushed meal, get their energy levels back, check their OzB deals and return to continue work in a safe and productive manner…

      • terrys on 29/04/2021 - 10:27
        -1

        " a proper unrushed meal, get their energy levels back,"

        Sometimes five of us took as long as 10 minutes to have a mug or two of tea and a sandwich while picking a thousand hay bales from the paddock to stacked in the [if we were lucky] barn each day. The 'energy' thing sounds like management speak for " find a bullshit justification", given that traditionally manual workers took a 1/2 hour break [or 20 minute crib break] whereas office workers got an hour.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/04/2021 - 07:48
      +2

      yes this is exactly it, I'm wondering if this is legal. The schedule changes every day and in this 'down' time we are constantly called out to do random jobs.
      Just irks me that when I started 3 months ago they told us it was a 30 minute break, so for an 8 hour shift we'd get paid 7.5 hours. Now I'm getting paid for 7 hours and doing the same amount of work.

      • modiika on 27/04/2021 - 09:16
        +2

        I think this is possibly a more serious issue. I dont think its a big deal, if occasionally, your unpaid break is being interrupted (once a week or something), but if effectively you are not getting this 30 min additional break and they are not paying you for working it almost everyday (i.e. the break is a break only on your paycheck). Then I do think they are likely in breach.

        • AustriaBargain on 27/04/2021 - 13:53
          +2

          The break ends when the work starts. If you call me off break to start unloading, then I’m clocking back in, I’m not giving the owner a freebie. Same if the owner wants to chat about software upgrades for 20 minutes during a Break, or accept a client phone call. It’s work, not brewk. The owner would never come to my house and unload a moving truck for 15 minutes for me for free. Probably not even at my hourly rate he wouldn’t do it.

          • Quantumcat on 27/04/2021 - 17:48

            @AustriaBargain: Yes this, either leave the premises during your break or clock back in if called on to do something work-related.

      • jv on 27/04/2021 - 11:12
        -1

        yes this is exactly it, I'm wondering if this is legal.

        Of course it is…
        If you don't like it, then leave. I'm sure somebody else would be happy to work there without whinging…

        • [Deactivated] on 27/04/2021 - 21:44
          -1

          Says the whiniest person on ozbargain!

  • Punda on 26/04/2021 - 23:44
    +2

    This happened to my son. 1 hour is a long time to eat a sandwich and sit on your phone. It’s a waste of time. He asked to get switched back to 30mins and they agreed as that was how it was when he started. I think new people need to take the whole hour.

  • Ultimate Gattai on 27/04/2021 - 00:47
    +1

    It seems fair enough to me, I believe my work is 30mins after 6 hours and 1 hour lunch after 8hours of work.

  • apiecost on 27/04/2021 - 01:23
    +4

    If you are indeed permanent part time then your paid working hours should not be getting reduced without your involvement.

  • DarkOz on 27/04/2021 - 07:16
    +2

    I must have explained this poorly. For an 8 hour shift I was getting paid for 7.5 hours. I am now getting paid 7 hours and must take a 60 minute break.

    You got short changed 0.5 hour and that doesn't look legal. Check your contract and consult your union.

    On the other hand, keeping the 7.5 hours pay with an 8.5 hour shift and 1 hour break is fine. Your company did a dirty on its workers.

  • smartazz104 on 27/04/2021 - 07:35

    permanent part time

    For an 8 hour shift I was getting paid for 7.5 hours.
    I am now getting paid 7 hours and must take a 60 minute break.

    Sounds like your employer is treating you as casuals.

  • jv on 27/04/2021 - 11:05

    Employer Has Changed Our 'break' Time from 30 Mins Unpaid to 60 Mins Unpaid, Is This Legal?

    Yes, it is.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/04/2021 - 12:41

    I think it is legal. If you don't like it then use the notice period to find another job. As someone above me said "I believe my work is 30mins after 6 hours and 1 hour lunch after 8hours of work."

  • baskinghobo on 27/04/2021 - 13:38
    +2

    Go to the shopping mall and have lunch for an hour then come back to work and say you couldn't hear your phone ringing in the shop.

  • BumbaT on 27/04/2021 - 13:50
    +1

    If you are allowed to leave the premises then it can be unpaid. If you are not allowed to leave the premises while taking a break then it should be paid because you cannot choose what to do with the time therefore you are still working. Your contract should not have the work hours decreased even if the break time has increased.

    If you had a 20 hour contract

    Original contract 30 mins break 6.67 paid hours

    New contract should be

    Should be 1 hour break and 6.67 paid for your three shifts

    Not 1 hour break 6.17 hours paid. This is a reduction of 9.3% of paid hours.

    And besides all this you should always count renumeration in your job as a total hours spent including hours not spent at work such as commute or emails calls etcIf you are not doing this as well as deducting money you spend on your job for your job then you don't really know how much your job is really worth to you in time.

  • nephilim on 27/04/2021 - 14:08

    Maybe post on Auslegal on reddit?
    Beware a lot of nonsense on there, "my son got told off for cancelling a shift at KFC 1hour before he starts, is 1 hour notice fine"' "'yes as hes casual lol"' +100

  • sjj89 on 27/04/2021 - 14:51

    Taking a contract in South Australia will make your employer have to abide by SA's award rules, which can differ state by state.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/04/2021 - 20:48

    From this https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/fast-food-restaura….

    it seems legal unfortunately

    • greatlamp on 28/04/2021 - 07:38
      -1

      How do you figure it is legal based on the award?

      The issue is the employer is cutting takehome pay. The break time is irrelevant

      • May4th on 28/04/2021 - 18:56

        The issue is the employer is cutting takehome pay

        how?

        • greatlamp on 28/04/2021 - 21:05

          Just irks me that when I started 3 months ago they told us it was a 30 minute break, so for an 8 hour shift we'd get paid 7.5 hours. Now I'm getting paid for 7 hours and doing the same amount of work.

          OP isn't the most articulate fellow, but this reads as the hours of work are reduced

  • Retchey on 27/04/2021 - 21:19

    You would have to either start or finish 1/2 earlier or later now

  • Eeples on 27/04/2021 - 23:31

    I remain confused by this forum posting.

  • blehgg on 28/04/2021 - 08:37

    Take your unpaid leave in two chunks?

    1/2 hour for lunch ~ 1/2 hour to leave early? :)

  • May4th on 28/04/2021 - 18:55

    it is what it is. make the most of the time as you will, go for exercise/ schedule some errands to run. you aren't 'working a 8hr shift' - you are working a 7hr shift. but you shouldn't be required to stay onsite for it - this would be a sticking point to take to your employer. by definition if you are on your break you're not working or on call you should be able to do whatever you please. if you think you can make more efficient use of your time elsewhere then find a new job

  • Vote for Pedro on 28/04/2021 - 19:11

    Depends on your enterprise agreement or award. Ask your union.

    Some agreements say things like ‘at least 30 minutes and not more than 1hr’ for unpaid breaks.

    • jv on 29/04/2021 - 10:15

      Ask your union

      lol

  • Plug on 28/04/2021 - 20:52

    Which industry are you in?

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