Hit by Another Car in Carpark - How Do I Settle This Privately?

I was walking back to the carpark at a small shopping centre with a family member recently, when someone tried to park next to us and hit my car. I've never seen anyone try to park a car before at that speed and in the rain! I was parked legally, within the allocated carpark and have the other driver's licence details. He also told me he was insured and seemed co-operative. I also took a few photos, but unfortunately do not have dashcam. I assume the shopping centre has CCTV but I doubt they would be willing to share it unless the police was involved.

The next day I visited a few smash repairers and the quotes given were all roughly around the cost of the excess (around $750). One of the smash repairers mentioned that car park incidents are often a grey area, which I found worrying and so I was hoping to settle for just under what the excess would be for the other party, so that there's no chance that I may need to pay for an excess.

I'm wondering what the procedure is to either attempt to settle privately with the other party or to involve my insurance company, but without this affecting future premiums or forcing me to pay an excess. Many insurers ask about past claims when you get quotes for new insurers, so I am also wary about this. Has anyone had experience settling such a matter privately?



  • +61

    If you have a quote for the repairs, why don’t you contact the other driver and ask them to pay it? If they give you the bullshit, you have their details, just file a claim with your insurance as not at fault. “Simples”

    • -6

      I've done that but he is very slow to respond to my texts and won't give me his email address so that I can forward quote details. Regarding insurance, since it's a relatively small amount of damage and my car isn't that new anymore, I'm also wondering whether I shouldn't just have the most important parts repaired to the bumper (should take about 2 hours), in order to avoid giving up the car for 3 days for the paint and repair of a minor scratch and dent. This would be rather inconvenient as I would also need to organise a hire car for this period and so on. So that's another reason for wanting to settle privately.

      I'm also wary of future premiums being affected if I change insurer (there's always that question about how many claims you've made in the past 3 years…)

      • +74

        he is very slow to respond to my texts and won't give me his email address

        He is stalling, don't give them the time of day, just hand it over to your insurance company, let them deal with him. (That is what you pay them for after all.)

        I'm also wary of future premiums being affected

        You pay insurance for situations like this. If people would just own up to their mistakes and pay, insurance companies would not exist. You are not at fault, so you don't have to pay excess if you have the other drivers details, which you have. Even if you change insurers and you state you have made a claim, it was not at fault and it's usually only a few years and your premium is only going to go up by maybe a few dollars, if that.

        What if he disputes it?

        That is why you hand it over to your insurance company. He knows that dealing with you, he can just ignore it and you will finally go away. Insurance companies wont be so easily shrugged off.

        Just put it to him one last time. Just say "This is the quote I have to repair the vehicle, If I dont hear from you to arrange payment for the work, then I will just hand it over to my insurance company and you can deal with them instead." and if the next reply isnt "what's your bank details?" then file your claim.

        • -9

          Thanks for this. Any idea how I should frame my offer to settle privately? Would I suggest a JP witness a document to say that the matter has been settled?

          • +6


            Any idea how I should frame my offer to settle privately?

            Wouldn’t bother doing that. You make it more complicated for yourself.

            Unless you plan to keep the money and not repair 🤨

            • +1

              @SF3: I think that's the plan actually. A little mild extortion.. (admittedly they're owned something).

              • @drprox: I don't think he comprehended what pegaxs has said.

          • +1

            @Pete10001: Damn Pete, did you bother to read Pegasxs' response? Come on Pete

        • +1

          Only thing to add to pegaxs fine (albeit long) comment is to put a time limit on it, eg "contact me by 5pm on x or this offer will expire and I will be going through insurance"

      • +3

        Whatever you do, don’t do it in halves. Get it fixed properly, otherwise, don’t do it at all.

      • So you see this is an opportunity to not actually fix your car and make some cash instead?

        This is kind of dishonest, and is a bad idea anyway.

        There is no down side to involving your insurance company. You are not at fault and so won't need to pay anything, won't effect your future premiums or claims history, if your car is stuck at the repairers you can get a courtesy car for free too.

        • Not really, this is why many insurance companies give you the option to be paid out.

          My sh1tter was scratched down the side and the insurance quote was for ~$1200 in repairs (still less than the value of the car of $2000)

          I opted to get paid out from the other party, his premiums didn't go up and I recieved cash in hand, sold the car for $1500 a year later.

          Nothing dishonest about it

          • @Drakesy: The scratch only reduced your car value by $500, but you made the guy pay $1200 - hence profiting $700 from the accident.

            • @trapper: And this is a problem how?
              Each of us benefitted in this situation.

              • @Drakesy: Give me $1200 cash for my $500 loss and we won't need to tell insurance about this… it's kind of dishonest as I said earlier.

                If you're ok with that then go for it.

                • +2

                  @trapper: Well, otherwise i was going to sink $1200 into a car that was worth a little bit more than that

                  In the end i was $700 in the black.
                  Now if my maths serve me correctly i profited off being hit, he escaped is no claim penalty.

                  Everyone came out ahead, except for the insurance company, which i don't really care much for.
                  Still don't understand how it's dishonest though?

                • @trapper: Its not that hard to figure out that price of repair is not directly proportional to the loss in value of the car. Well i say that but here we are.

                  You have the option to request a payout and you can decide whether to go ahead with none / some or all of the repairs. You do this knowing it will reduce the "value" of the car and that it is considered pre existing damage and were you to have another accident it will effect the amount covered.

                  It is up to the owner to decide what to do once he decides on a cash settlement, whether that be with the owner or insurance company. The only time dishonesty comes into the equation is if existing damage is not reported to the next / current insurer.

                  • +1

                    @fnx renegade: The owner who's car was damaged is entitled to a remedy, in this case he's taken the remedy of the pay out.

                    I did a similar thing years ago with my relatively new car, not knowing if it was worth fixing or not. After 3 years I haven't fixed and and I have pocketed the money so far along with interested, but one day I might, it's just keeping the possibilities open like only cash does. My car is rare and it might end up costing me more to fix one day, or it might be that I don't fix it at all and pocket the cash if it's written off at some point. Or if I get rear ended it may end up been money saved

        • Not really, they damaged your car and it's worth less now. You get some cash to make up for that and can either take the cash and have a damaged car or use the cash to fix the car.

          Doesn't affect the other person one bit.

    • +2

      When in doubt check with OzPegaxs.

  • +36

    Why pay for insurance if you aren't going to use it?

    You weren't at fault… ring them, submit a claim and let them deal with it.

    • -15

      What if he disputes it? He's been very slow to respond to my texts and only sends very brief replies… so almost less than co-operative. Just not sure I want to risk having to pay the excess or have my premiums go up (as per the advice of the smash repairer that carpark incidents are a 'grey area')

      • +6

        You weren't even in the car.

        • -4

          Yes, that's correct, but how can I prove this? Would this be a matter of me just needing to sign a stat dec if he disputes it?

          • +9

            @Pete10001: Probably. I rang my insurance up when someone merged into me recently. Told them what happened, provided details and photos and they organised the repair. Didn't pay excess or hear from them again.

            Understand your concern but you are overthinking it. You were clearly not at fault.

            If you go through insurance you will have a guarantee on the quality of the repair, and will not have to organise it, things like getting to me from the repairer are organised for you. Going privately you don't have any of that.

          • +1

            @Pete10001: Wasn’t a family member with you. If the insurance asks for a witness u them their details. May need to sign a stat dec to say what happened is true, but it’s no big deal.

  • +2

    If you are not at fault, you don’t pay excess. You can always check with your insurance if you have doubts on this :)

    Hope the party continues to be cooperative (unlike some past OPs post) and smooth sailing in getting your car back to normal. 👍

    • -4

      But if I contact my insurer, wouldn't they immediately make a note on my file that there's been an accident… in which case I would need to proceed with a claim?

      • +4

        You don't need to proceed with a claim you submitted if you change your mind

      • Can always “asking for a friend or family member” if you are that concern :) otherwise as per kerfuffle’s comment.

      • You can choose to submit a report instead of claim. No idea whether it will affect your premium or not.
        If you are with a decent insurance company, then submitting a no fault claim should not affect your premium the following year. The dodgy ones will always raise their premiums regardless of which party is at fault.

  • Why is it a grey area? If someone hits your car while parking, it’s pretty straightforward

    Now if you were reversing or something, that would be a grey area

  • +1

    The fact you have the other drivers details will work in your favour; nothing grey about it really.

    Contact your insurer. It should not affect your claims history as the questions generally as about "at fault" claims. And you may find the underwriting will be fine with a single (at fault) claim without affecting the premium (was the case for an online system I wrote for one of Suncorps onsellers at the time).

    Find a crash repairer your insurance will deal with who will give you a loan car. Make sure your repairs are warrantied and guaranteed and inspect everything before you take your car home :)

  • +14

    You are overthinking it OP.

    If you aren't satisfied with the communication/action from the other person just put it in the hands of your insurance company.

    That's what insurance is for.

    • +4

      Looks like OP might need another insurance to give him some reassurance about his insurance company.

    • +1

      I was like him in the past, 2 things I learnt from those things, let the insurance works for you, and report to the police asap, if do you think he would lie and run away, especially with old car owners, just call the police on the spot. Maybe too drama but it will cover you.

  • +5

    OP stop worrying and just contact your insurance. This also happened to me once, I didn't even bother contacting the driver and just called my insurance. One phone call and this will all be sorted.

  • +9

    Lodge the claim (despite the rain) for your gain, without the pain.

    • +9

      Insurance will know who to blame.


    • +6

      And a mspaint.exe diagram will increase your fame

      To get bikies involved would be a shame

    • +9

      And please don't use my name in vain

      • +7

        I'm sorry, a written apology for you I will frame,

        to insult you was not my aim :(

        • +5

          I see this is a little game, and I will try to do the same, but I fear it will sound quite lame.

          • +1

            @kiitos: With me… the same

            • +2

              @Bignudge: I will abstain and refrain from being involved in this tame plain rhyme train that strains my brain.

  • +25

    Please quit it with your cautious namby pambying. If your premium goes up as you seem to fear, then so be it. It’s life - shit happens. If you’re so worried about it to the point you won’t advance this matter in your best interests, then ole chap you’ve lost sight of the forest for the trees.

  • +3

    FMD. Just put in a claim with your insurer. Provide them with the other driver's details. Get your car fixed. Have them deal with the d!ckhead with no insurance … and no money … and no plan to do anything with you other than give you the run around.

  • +1

    If it's not already obvious, he is not going to just pay for your repairs privately and everything becomes sunshine and rainbows. Submit the claim and if it comes up, provide whatever is necessary (i.e. an account of events, witnesses, photos, text messages etc. etc.).

  • +2

    You’ll save $ by going direct to the other party. You might even be able to pocket the cash and not get a repair, or a cheap repair as you say.

    If you get any grief from the other guy just go to your insurer, you’ve paid premiums for this reason.

    This happened to Mum ages ago. Truck driver said he wanted to settle privately because his commercial insurance would cost him too much. Got three quotes as asked and he got his back up and said it was to expensive for a basic repair. Mum went straight to jnsurance and didn’t need to deal with him ever again.

    Edit: if I were the other driver a $750 claim would be below my excess. Depending on damage to my car I’d avoid insurance if at all possible and pay up. If it went to my insurance I’d probably be up for the full excess.

    There is no grey area if a moving car struck your parked car.

  • Call your insurance, get them to pay for the repairs and chase him for the money, it's what you pay them for.
    He's around delaying things, so now he can deal with them and any legal proceedings if he wants to try and stuff them around.

    You weren't at fault, so why accept some substandard repair job or a couple of hundred bucks that you'll probably regret every time you look at your car or when you go to sell it.
    Your insurance may also give you a hire car while yours is being repaired if it's in your policy.

  • +2

    Next text message -
    I've given you every chance to make good - I've now handed it to my insurance company.

  • +4

    Why text? Pick the phone up and call.

    • If you also have his address, just go to his house and ask in person….

    • Where's the evidence of what was said during a verbal discussion?

      • You get to actually talk to someone and discuss what is going to happen, you then confirm with text or email. I've done 4 not at fault crashes this way (not me).

  • The other person is just hoping you'll give up. You were nice about it, you got 3 quotes and they still won't pay.

    Just go through insurance.

    Also, get a DASHCAM.

    • +1

      Dashcam may not have picked up this incident

      • +2

        Well if you had a dashcam you would know whether it picked up the incident or not.

      • if you setup in such a way you can capture front and back with continuous recording.

  • My parked car was damaged recently and the driver completely accepted responsibility and immediately contacted their insurer and sent me SMS with claim number within hour of incident. I was in 2 minds whether to get my insurer involved to take care of everything but before I even had a chance to contact my insurer because it was public holiday in my State I had a call from OP insurer who arranged quote to repair. Because I was not at fault the OP insurer also arranged car hire for the 3 days my car was with repairer and taxi vouchers to and from repairer/car rental and reimbursed me for the car rental full damage insurance cover I took out.
    If at fault driver won’t respond go to your insurer who will arrange all the above for you and they will then claim from other driver’s insurer, including your excess.

    • +1

      This exact thing happened to us. We didn't have to do a thing to arrange it, or pay a cent. Taxi vouchers and rental car all paid for, twice in our case, since the repairers missed a few key bits of damage and we had to take it back in. Not an ideal situation, given that our car was brand new, but at least we didn't have to do anything from our end.

      Not sure why anyone would choose not to go down that path?

  • +1

    Your insurance company deals with his insurance company. Just as your solicitor deals with the other party solicitor. Clients don't need to interact each other apart from obtaining IDs. Don't waste your time that you pay your insurance company to do. Unless you're prone to insurance claims your premium should not be affected particularly if you are not at fault.

  • Nothing grey about his. OP, you are looking for issues that don’t exist. You are making this sound more complicated than it needs to be. INSURANCE!

    Doesn’t everyone here know that the OzBargain Automotive forum is only for people who DON’T have insurance and need advice on getting out of paying? Or on getting out of fines? :-)

  • +1

    I had this. Straight to insurance. Dealing privately never ends well. And mine was just a door strike by a kid that dented the door and chipped the paint.

    • +4

      Depends on the person and the car. I was driving my $1500 VX Commy beater and some P-platers in another beater Commy bumped me at the traffic lights. I got out and demanded $200 cash and I’d drop it. He opened his wallet and only had $40 - which I accepted and told him don’t do it again. Done and dusted.

      • Love it

      • 40 whole dollars?

        • Nah, 40 whole rupees, swings and roundabouts.

      • What would you do if he just reversed back and drive off or his wallet was empty?

        • What would you do if he just reversed back and drive off

          Reverse and drive off can happen to anyone, not just anyone driving a shitter $1500 VX Commy. Normal common sense would be to note down the rego plate and make a police report for hit and run.

          or his wallet was empty?

          Any other vehicle I actually cared about would be to go through insurance. Since my time and effort is worth more than making an insurance claim for a $1500 car and he incurred minor damage which logically should be compensated for, I would ask what's fair compensation to settle on the spot. If he doesn't play ball then escalation is to make it a Police incident, or let him go free as a lesson (from a cocky tailgating P-plater to a sheepish one).

          My actual demeanour was calm and relaxed, let out a sigh with mild annoyance, and presented my options for compensation. I felt that was the easiest option for me given I didn't want to repair the damage anyway, but at least I could get dinner or a slab out of it.

          • @OneJay:

            Normal common sense would be to note down the rego plate and make a police report for hit and run.

            What if it he didn't have a rego plate? What would common sense dictate next?

            • @Zachary: What if he pulled a knife on me? What if he decided to run me down with his car instead? You can take any hypothetical situation and try to apply common sense to it.

              Might not be your intent, but your question comes across belligerent-like for the sake of? I’m not offended either way.

              • -1

                @OneJay: ok, maybe I should asked what your common sense would do. I was just curious what you would do in these case for small talk. Also looked up belligerent and there was no hostility behind it if that's what you felt.

    • +1

      It depends on the damage and the situation. No harm in trying to save everybody some coin by going privately.

      My car looks a bit rough, but it functions well. if someone hit me I’d be happy to put the cost of minor repairs to my car into other upgrades if it can be repaired more cheaply than a full insurance job. Eg crush the front bumper, instead of replace and paint I’ll get a bull bar. That becomes possible if I collect cash from them. If I claim straight away on my insurance all that money will go to the repair.

      • Not to mention the fact that the less we indulge into insurance payments the lower general premiums will be…
        To all the people above whom are super happy about their red carpet treatment from none at fault insurance issues, I hope they understand that these things end up bringing the average premium cost up. Nothing is free.

  • +3

    I've tried to be nice to people who've damaged my car and arrange cheaper repairs, but they blanked me.

    I can see what you're trying to do, settle the claim for less than the repair and just pocket the money as you're not too concerned about the damage, win-win. At this stage, the other party is being evasive, so there's no real sign that they'll play ball. You need to go through your insurance as there's a good chance they're not gonna be paying you. Let the insurers take them to court

  • Not sure why you are hesitating this much to ring up your insurance. Unless your story isnt what you said it was I dont see any reason why you need to worry about so many different outcomes. You pay for insurance for situations like this. Other driver handed their details. Couldn’t have gone better imo given what happened.

  • +3

    Don't waste your time. Just go through insurance.

    That's the point of insurance

  • +1

    It doesn't matter if your excess is $750, depends what the other drivers excess is, if their at fault, and if they want to use their insurer or settle it privately.

    If they have some damage to their car that's say $700 worth and yours is $750. If their excess is less then $1,450 then they'd be better off paying their excess.

    Their insurer can then either deal with you directly or your insurer. I'd say they'd most likely prefer to deal straight with another insurer who deals with this day in day out, rather then an individual who deals with this once in a blue moon.

    • If their excess is less then $1,450 then they'd be better off paying their excess.

      Would they though?

      • +1

        Who cares about their situation. All OP has to do is lodge a claim with his insurer with the other drivers details

  • +1

    The lack of insurance sense in the general community is mind boggling. You have insurance so why bother with chasing it up privately? You will also get the hire car if you have a half decent insurer. All this fuss about absolutely nothing. Give his details to your insurer and be done with it.

  • -1


  • +2

    Keep doing what you doing OP, ignore the advice your recieving from this thread (your doing a good job of that already).

  • Just report to your insurance regardless who is fixing it. I had a parking hit and run with only a number plate, reported to the police and insurance decided to fix it for me without excess. I don't think my premiums increase the following year.

  • Lol you are putting lot of effort to get money from the other party than worrying about fixing ur car. Opportunity turned into a business.

  • Had a very similar accident in a shopping mall last month.
    I’m with Allianz insurance btw.

    Somene damaged the front bumper of my parked car while trying to park next to me.

    Just after the accident the other driver first moved his car to another parking spot. So I lost the opportunity to take the pictures of the exact scene.

    I got his details, called my insurance call center at the scene. Described what happened on the phone. Insurer did not ask for any photos, evidence etc.

    They just told me no excess will be on me bc the other driver is at fault.
    Got all the repairs done.

    I still feel that my insurer missed something and will get back to me for some evidence :)

  • try Comminsure, after 5 years they finally ordered the correct police rapport in my case

  • You don't have his address?? Did you not take down his details from his licence?

    Your car was parked - how could it be your fault considering someone scraped the side of your car and his damage is to his front end?

    You have photos, so I don't understand the hesitance

    You pay insurance, use it - you're not at fault, so you may even have courtesy car under some policies.

  • -1

    It also works better for the other party as it will cost them less to go through insurance than paying directly.

    Back when I was 18 I crashed into the back of another car (in my defence it was a turning lane, the traffic cleared and the driver in front started to pull out, I looked up the road to double check as I was moving forward, and for some reason the guy stopped. I was technically at fault, but I think he wanted his car fixed for free as it had pre existing damage).

    Anyway he logged a claim with his insurance company…. it was like $2700 for repairs.

    I said I was unemployed and studying and didn’t have the money. In the end I offered $5 a month until it was paid off, or $650 which was my entire savings. Insurance company accepted $650 as it was easier than trying to recoup costs.

    And yes, I had insurance at the time (my excess was $1100), but if I logged under my insurance it would have cost me nearly double AND my insurance premium would have gone up.

    So if you are ever in a similar situation and you hit someone, deal with their insurance company first. If it’s going to cost too much you can simply log a case with your insurance at any time..

  • OP needs to grow a pair

  • A couple of weeks ago, I found a dent and some scratches when I returned to my car at a shopping center parking lot. I don't have a dashcam fitted. So, I called the center, and they told me my car was out of range from the surveillance cameras. No, I regret not having a dashcam. :(

  • Trying to be nice with people who caused the accident tends to go sour. When initial fear of collision is gone, cold calculation kicks in - "will I get away with it? maybe he'll drop it when I ghost him". Allowing time to pass just makes it more likely that the party at fault will mentally gear up and play hide and seek with you. A hard slap on the face when they get contacted by an insurance company normally fixes that.

    Jokes aside - if you were not at fault, you wont pay excess. Call your insurer, tell them what happened, give all evidence, and then wait for their decision. If theyll decide they have enough to go on to chase up the other party for cost recovery, you are in the clear. Otherwise you can always just tell them you won`t be claiming from your own insurance to get repairs done. Win-win.

  • Go through your insurance, if the repairs aren't up to standard you can get your insurance company on to it again and if the other party decides maybe they don't want to pay and claim no fault then it's just your word against theirs. Let the insurance company fight it for you.

  • +1

    I'm happy to be your insurer.
    I can invoice you annually and if there is a claim you can manage it yourself.

  • Bickies. Get some coffee and macaroons and sort it out with the fella.

  • Car park cases can be tricky, but not if your car is parked in a marked space and not being driven at the time.

    If the guy is being slow to respond, you're better off letting your insurance handle it. It's unlikely they'll find you at fault in this instance unless the guy lies about the circumstances of the accident, but you have photos of both vehicles to back up your case, hopefully.

  • Going to OP’s insurer presumes that OP has comprehensive cover? If it’s only third party cover, I doubt the insurer will bother chasing the other party even though OP is not at fault here.

  • Your smash repairer doesn't know what he is talking about. It is only a grey area, if you don't know who hit your car but I mean that applicable in any scenario whether you're in a car park, on the road, anywhere.

    In a car park scenario where a car is parked and not running, it is always the fault of the other vehicle/party that hit the car. A stationary object/parked car place somewhere legally or illegally is consider a hazard, it is their job as a driver to be aware of and avoid hazards. There would not be a scenario where your parked aka stationary not running car was somehow an unavoidable hazard that doesn't place the driver at fault for his action. In theory your car could be parked in the middle of a main road, if the vehicle isn't running, therefore parked,the fault of the accident lies with the driver that hit it.

    The above was explained to be by an AAMI representative when a light truck driver smashed up the front of my car in parking lot with his truck a few years ago. He claimed in his note and then he texts that it was my fault because of how my car was parked. Thankfully the arrogant prick willingly gave me a bunch of photos of the incident and his contact details because he was so sure it was my fault but instead of agreeing to anything and admitting anything as soon as I got those details, I simply called AAMI, my insurer, I explained the situation which was when I was enlightened with the information I just shared with you. When I told the driver what my insurer said he was not happy and he refused to use his insurer, so I just filed the claim as not at fault with AAMI, passed on all the information I had on the incident and the other party, no drama they took care of the rest.

    So basically my advice, don't agree to anything except that you believe the driver to be at fault and therefore liable for the repair costs. Call your insurer either way, you can ask them about advice about incident without necessarily making a claim if you're still unsure you aren't at fault. if they refuse to use their insurer, simply call your insurer back and make a not at fault claim. Pass on all the information you have on the accident, all the information you have on the other party and than let them handle it. Not much else for you to do or stress about, the premium is negligible to any other alternative, I mean if you spent more than an hour trying to convince the other party, you've already wasted more resources than what extra it will cost you in premiums to file the claim through your insurer.

  • Hi OZbargainers,

    I really need some help too. I do not have any experience dealing with vehicle damage and I am not from around here. My situation is very similar to this gentlemen. Last week, I parked my car on the staff parking area of my work. When I left work, I realised there were a few wooden and plastic toys laying on the roof of my car and next to the windshield wipers. At first I was not aware any damage done to the car as it was dark after 6pm here in melbourne so I left anyway without contacting the insurer or taking any action but I did take some photos. My vehicle was parked facing a metal fence and right behind the fence is the school for some primary kids, so the toys were definitely from them. The next day I found out there are around 5 small dents and scratches on the bonnet and roof of car, my windshield was chipped. I have been trying to contact the principal of the school but couldn't reach them (maybe they are just trying to avoid responsibility). However, I managed to meet the principal yesterday and she totally acted like a (profanity)! which is to my surprise for an occupation respected by the community to be acting this way. She told me that I don't have any proof that her kids did that, she could not help me and she might need to contact the school's lawyer to see how it goes. Sadly, my dashcam does not have parking mode and there is no proof beside the toys i collected from the ground. There is CCTVs around the department of Justice next door but I don't think they are gonna help me. Anyone had dealt with similar situations before? Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated

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