The Shortcoming of Modern Day Redundancies

SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 09:00

Do any companies still do a 4-week notice period or is it standard to just be paid out and escorted off-site right away? I've seen both big and small businesses go for the quick route of canning someone on the spot. It's never affected me personally but I can't imagine anything worse for the unfortunate people who it happens to.

Recently saw a guy get made redundant after 10 years at the company. He didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to his colleagues/clients, wrap up his work, or take it in. Just told to pack up his stuff and wait for his money. Meanwhile people who started just a few weeks prior and decided the job wasn't for them (effectively wasting the company's time) get the typical farewell parade, goodbye lunch, sob story about how much we'll miss you and what an asset you've been. It just seems like a patronising cultural gesture.

Moral of the story - don't get made redundant, I guess.

Education & Work

Comments

    • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2021 - 20:02

      Not necessarily, there could be less than a whole job, work that is finishing imminently etc. But yes, generally most redundancies are genuine and it's just easier for the company to save you accruing more entitlements during the notice period and just pay it out and leave the poor rest of the staff to deal with the extra workload and commitments you've made to clients. Saves them money in the long run etc. Plus during the notice period they have to give you leave to do interviews etc, it's just a whole lot of hassle.

  • 91rs on 04/06/2021 - 11:59

    "Gardening leave" - This is the most common I've seen for those who choose to leave the company or who are being removed either via redundancy (restructure is the new reason for this), termination based on performance usually results in the minimum being paid but from what I hear its 4 weeks depending on where we're at in the pay cycle.

    Gardening leave is usually 4 weeks (from what I've seen) and if its a redundancy or due to restructure usually it's been met with a decent parting offer (often 4-12 weeks pay on top of all other entitlements + requirements due to length of employment, sometimes computers and phones wiped of company data for their own private use to help with the new job search.
    Some are handled better than others, some are escorted out directly from the office they went in to and their belongings provided to them at the exit of the building, while many choose to (if given the choice) to have all ducks lined up and then walk and not return. Very few stay on more than end of day or end of the week if its their own choice.

    Often it's been due to security risk or disruption to the remainder of the office if people were to hang about and then kick off or advertise to everyone what's happening (usually this is only the younger staff I've seen do this), however a person turning up one day and not the next does raise its own questions that are often ignored by some senior managers who treat staff like toddlers pretending people never existed.

    This way is much quieter and less disruptive than having to call police and have people removed after pressing charges for things (theft, assault etc), those ones are much harder to organize everything you need and for it to come together at the right time for minimal collateral damage.

    Never seen those who have been with the company less than their probation period (3-6 months) be given farewell parades, lunches or anything else. They usually turn in notice (often sheepishly and before they're caught out they can't actually do the job they were hired for) and then end of day or end of week don't return, an email sent to hand over any tasks or reassign tasks to others for points of contact.
    Maybe a generic short email this person has chosen to take another offer better suited to their skills or passion or something like that and it's the reason they've decided to leave so quickly.

  • bobolo on 04/06/2021 - 12:55
    +1

    Its strange to think that people still consider a JOB as "secure". Even with a notice period, it can be gone in an instant, irrespective of any perceived loyalty or term at the company.

    When it comes down to "either you or them" on the line, its definitely going to be you.

    • 900dollaridoos on 04/06/2021 - 13:05
      +4

      It's the same people that think hr are on their side

    • Homr on 04/06/2021 - 21:01

      100% agree.

      Contract means f'all these days, if the company wants to get rid of you, they will find a way

      • nickj on 04/06/2021 - 21:28
        +3

        I was appalled by all the companies "standing down" permanent employees at the start of covid. I get why they did it, but from the employee's perspective, one day they had a permanent job, next they had no ongoing job or income, and the whole thing was entirely legal. That really made me think "no job is ever truly secure".

  • GG57 on 04/06/2021 - 13:10

    To be fair and balanced, I am aware of some large organisations that undertook very large re-orgs, spilled a lot of roles, interviewed those interested for new roles, and handled the remaining redundancies reasonably professionally (i.e. offered training - or paid an allowance for same, use of business assets for job hunting, etc., etc.). Some even had a rolling 'farewell' event held on multiple Fridays for those that were leaving that week, so that colleagues could bid them farewell.

    I'm not saying it was all good, and I'm sure the organisations achieved their desired results, but the people that left were treated with respect.

  • wimphrel on 04/06/2021 - 13:12
    +2

    Pretty standard practice - it's still legal if they pay them or offer appropriate compensation I believe. High ranking managers may be excluded from severance pay however.
    Not 100% sure about the laws, but severance pay perhaps was to protect the lower-income wage earners. (I've heard rumours of a law suit in one of my previous companies where a newly-made department manager was made redundant without compensation).

    In my previous company - my boss went into a meeting one day, and suddenly came back flustered, packed up his stuff and told me "I just got made redundant" and left. He was allowed to stay for the remaining day to say goodbye, but he was first, and thought it was a personal thing…. Unfortunately a whole bunch of other managers & engineers started getting called in and getting their 'packages' on the same day. Pretty depressing day & no one could work after it.
    I submitted my resume for a new job application the very next day. Glad I succeeded & left. I don't want to support that company anymore.

    Everyone got compensated though : 4 weeks pay + 4 weeks pay per year of service to the company. I'm not sure if the 'per-year-of-service' component was a legal requirement. Caught up with him for a beer a few weeks later after he got a new job - he was happier.

    "Gardening Leave" as mentioned above is useful for high-ranking employees that are privy to sensitive information (i.e. this is for voluntary resignations). They're still paid for the 4 weeks notice period (thus they sit at home gardening or something), as there's no point having the resigned-or-redundant-employee sit in any highly confidential strategic planning meetings.

  • MarcusJones on 04/06/2021 - 13:18
    +4

    I was made redundant in 2019 (part of an outsourcing project), was the greatest thing ever. Was told on Wednesday, told my last day would be the Friday (I work in IT so it would have been a security risk). Company paid my notice period, plus all entitlements plus an additional month. The other advantage is you don’t pay anywhere near as much tax on a redundancy payout. I had been with the company 3y11m and got a payout of $52k and only had to pay $7k tax (so got to keep $45k).

    Less than a year later they’ve hired me back as a contractor to fix up all the issues. Now being paid a considerably higher daily rate 👍

    Just my advice if it ever happens to you is not to be angry, accept that it’s probably not personal and things work out. Try to leave on good terms as you never know what might happen.

    • Blue Cat on 04/06/2021 - 13:21
      -3

      I’ve read that one of the good ways to protect your IT position is to have delayed “time bombs” which screw up the system in case you don’t update it in a month or two. This way, like you said, they panic and hire you again on higher rates.

      Have you done something similar?

      • MarcusJones on 04/06/2021 - 16:16
        +1

        While you could do that, it’s not something I would risk my reputation doing.

        In my case there was a global decision to outsource IT to India, which to put very nicely “hasn’t really worked”. The company is now seeing the ramifications but are locked into a contract, so between a rock and a hard place. The stop gap they came up with was to bring me back on “what was supposed to be a 1 month contract, but it’s now 10 months later” type situation.

        I do feel for people who have worked at a company for 15+ years and then be let go, but to be honest I think 5-7 years is the maximum you should spend at one company (maybe 10 years if your in a niche industry). Staying with one company for a very long time period actually looks bad on your resume as you’ll have limited experience.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2021 - 19:56

      The other advantage is you don’t pay anywhere near as much tax on a redundancy payout.

      It's worth noting the tax free component of the redundancy payment only applies to the amount in respect of the redundancy, not paid out notice periods, paid out annual leave, paid out long service leave etc that go long with it. So effectively there's a tax free portion and a portion that is taxed as normal, not a lower tax rate applied to the whole thing.

      Can still be a big chunk of it though.

  • AustriaBargain on 04/06/2021 - 14:34
    +1

    I love the idea of people being escorted off by security, as if they’d go crazy and trash the office otherwise or steal computers and office supplies. It’s so funny. Like being broken up with in a fancy restaurant so they won’t cause a scene, classic move.

    • GG57 on 04/06/2021 - 14:38
      +1

      It does seem over the top, but I have seen a departing employee send an 'All Company' email with a lot of derogatory comments, supported by facts, about the executive team and other management, including naming names, just before they closed down their work laptop.

      Seems harmless, but damage is damage.
      People with the right user credentials and knowledge could cause havoc with systems etc.

      • bobolo on 04/06/2021 - 15:17
        +1

        And stolen property such as sales leads/databases can literally cost the company itself if its an SME

    • syousef on 08/06/2021 - 15:15

      Dear AustriaBargain, it's you, not me. Regards, your employer.

  • happyhammer on 04/06/2021 - 16:30

    Maybe depends on seniority. I've had it when I was junior and had to 'work' for them for next 2 months. Then as a senior manager got told in the morning and was out 30 minutes later! Got the 4 weeks.

    The company has a risk of you being there and knowing their strategies, finances and future plans etc so you can't really be involved in decisions

    Also if small company under certain size they only have to give 1 week I believe.

  • spaceflight on 04/06/2021 - 16:48
    +2

    He didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to his colleagues/clients, wrap up his work, or take it in. Just told to pack up his stuff and wait for his money.

    It sounds like he was fired

  • Kranbone on 04/06/2021 - 18:54

    Discussed this with a friend who works in HR (another company).

    The removal of premises is to lower and risk of IP being stolen or taken, as well as creating less of a distraction for other co-workers.

    Also asked if a redundancy is seen as a negative by a potential employer who said it depends. If you were the only one made redundant, then yes, but if an entire team is mare redundant then it's not seen as bad (by potential employer). Apparently they want the best candidate and generally speaking those aren't the ones who are made redundant (represent less value, unable to be redeployed, skill set to niche). I suppose I understand it and the thinking behind it but it's pretty savage.

    • dipster on 06/06/2021 - 17:08

      creating less of a distraction for other co-workers.

      haha. Seeing someone escorted off-site tends to burn into into coworkers memories. Besides that they will discuss the lack of any handover etc around the watercooler for months. Less of a distraction indeed 😂

      • Kranbone on 06/06/2021 - 21:21

        I think it depends on the person. If they're really bitter they could cause problems, but if they're really professional, they could do a proper handover.

        But why would you want to get rid of really good professional people, surely you can find space somewhere else in the organisation right?

  • Miss B on 04/06/2021 - 18:56

    When a company I worked for was getting rid of everyone (outsourcing overseas), they were getting rid of them the same day they gave them notice. So annoying for the last couple of us they kept, because they made us work 4 weeks after notice. I still got paid out 26 weeks (notice /annual/redundancy), but 30 would have been better.

    • sparkles on 05/06/2021 - 09:44

      I worked for a place overseas that outsourced one of two teams to Bangalore by retrenching people. Result: one completely disgruntled team left, a bunch of clock watchers in Bangalore that have no clue and consistently left unfinished and incorrect work for others to clean up at the end of each day, and the new requirement to hire temps (me) to help the remaining team as they were always tied up fixing the Bangalore messes. Huge customers were intentionally kept in the dark about the location of their new contacts, and it was a straight up demoralising mess for everyone involved, except the management who probably professed how much money they were saving the company.

  • Dreamcast on 04/06/2021 - 18:57
    +6

    Moral of the story. Don't work like a dog and take back your time. The company will never be loyal to you, so don't be loyal to them.

    • Homr on 04/06/2021 - 21:05
      +1

      ^^this, I cringe every time when I hear a workplace say that they are like a family, like salesforce "Ohana" trademark. Family does not "let go" of their members

  • Dotaguy on 04/06/2021 - 19:19

    I’ve done these for a while. Not hard to guess what industry of work I’m in.

    In my experience, redundancies are yuck for the decision makers. The simplest explanation, is actually that you have hr professionals and managers who aren’t good at these either from a professional or from a relationship perspective, hence the easiest and simplest way to be done with it is to check some boxes and walk the people out instead of recognising the person at the other end of it.

    It is what is it is, I’ve never gotten it totally right but I have more often than not.

  • Kiro on 04/06/2021 - 19:50

    It's not what you know but rather who you know.

    I've been made redundant with 6 weeks per year service and also with another company that just paid out entitlements is AL and long service.

    It's painfully annoying when you put blood sweat and tears into it and boom. Gone.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2021 - 19:53
    +1

    As someone that was made redundant after 9 years, it was great to instantly have 0 responsibilities. All the issues that were my responsibility to solve all of a sudden evaporated. Yes, it sucked after 9 years of signing cards for farewells and slipping in a few dollars for farewell gifts to basically disappear into the sunset, but I got the equivalent of 4 weeks pay (minus super) in addition to my entitlements / redundancy pay out, so that was a decent replacement.

    In reality it depends on the person, I know one guy who was made redundant would have absolutely HATED the farewell fuss etc and slipping out quietly was exactly what he wanted.

    Compare being made redundant with being the poor sob left in the job who now has to do 1.5 jobs for nothing extra.

  • 28kb on 04/06/2021 - 20:35

    The worst part is when your manager doesn't have the balls to fire someone who is underperforming and instead makes them redundant and therefore they wont get replaced. Then your team gets (profanity) over due to lack of cpacity

  • cookie2 on 04/06/2021 - 21:23
    +1

    Yup, companies want you out asap when they make you redundant. It just reminds everyone else how expendable they are and how the company has chosen cost cutting (or a sly backdoor to getting rid of someone pushing their rights) over its people. Happened to me years ago, forced redundancy, escorted off the premises like it was something shameful and I'd done something wrong, then they tried to screw me on the payout because they pushed me out just before an additional year ticked over. Long story short, no help from my union and I represented myself and got the extra money owed. Freedom Furniture is just shitty. They just love their redundancies.

    • sparkles on 05/06/2021 - 09:50

      Oh boom, you named names!

  • snirodha on 04/06/2021 - 21:40

    As long as they respect the contract terms i do not see any issue. Farewell or no farewell dosent matter. If you have made good friends at work they will be in touch.

    Don't work like its your life. You have a family and a personal life. Job is just a job.

  • greencomet on 04/06/2021 - 22:00
    +5

    How appropriate the timing of this thread is.

    My misses was made redundant on Monday from her Accounding job, she's been with the company for 4 years, never had an issue, got pulled into a remote zoom meeting with her boss and HR and was told she needed to wrap up all her stuff as she'd be locked out of their system within an hour (working remotely covid lockdown).

    So basically lost her job on the spot, got her payout within 48 hours, still has a bunch of personal stuff in her office which she can't collect until lockdown is finished. Wasn't able to say goodbye to any co workers, clients, etc. Had no formal support network at all and was stuck at home alone during lockdown after she found out.

    Pretty pathetic that companies think this sort of behavior is acceptable, she would have been happy to work a couple more days remotely to ensure a smooth handover of work/clients, but they wanted her gone immediately.

    • Homr on 04/06/2021 - 22:03

      That sucks, reason for the quick turnaround was that she isn't given the opportunity to take any files from work computers.

      That's why I backup my data on a personal cloud storage space very week

      • plmko on 05/06/2021 - 19:09

        Yes this exactly. Make sure you take everything you can from day one.

    • kanmen on 07/06/2021 - 16:01

      Your wife should check her workplace/relevant award and see if the clause for consultation on major changes to workplace was met too. If not she may have a cause for unfair dismissal.

  • morse on 05/06/2021 - 03:02

    Someone I know who was made redundant by a large employer in Sydney as a result of the pandemic was asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement by the employer regarding their payout. I think in this instance there was also no big farewell despite being a long serving and well regarded employee. I suspect they didn’t want the staff talking amongst each other about discrepancies in their payouts.

  • ceroau on 05/06/2021 - 07:13
    +1

    I mean unless you just work in an industry filled with scummy companies, I think you'll find it more likely than not that in each case you've observed recent, one of the scenarios other commenters have suggested applies, opposed to just companies in general employing immediate redundancy policy. Either these people who are being escorted out weren't made redundant so much as let go/fired for various reasons under the ruse of redundancy and/or they were security risks in one form or another. For example if my company ever blind sided me with a redundancy, I would totally understand them having me finish up immediately. I am in a single point sensitive role and have access to well most systems, I could bring the company to it's knee in a really short amount of time if I was disgruntled, I wouldn't, I am a professional but I could is the point, there could be a fear of retribution or coercion. You mentioned the person they let go worked in tech/web design that person could have had access to all kinds of stuff. Just cause he isn't in a senior role doesn't mean he can't do damage for example if he had access to the company website, he could do lots of damage to the reputation of the company. It not's just confidential and/or financial data companies need to be concerned about, the right employee in the right position can do major damage to a companies reputation or relationship with clients.

  • DarkOz on 05/06/2021 - 08:38
    +2

    Isn't it actually better to be paid the notice period and not having to work? It's a free holiday after all.

    The colleagues that you don't have a chance to say goodbye to…well if they are friends you should have their contact details. What is stopping you from calling/emailing?

    • SlavOz on 05/06/2021 - 14:42
      +3

      Nothing stopping you, but I just feel like paying the person out and treating them like a pariah after 10 years is poor form. Like not even a group-wide email saying that he's moving on and will be missed. His name was essentially erased from the history books at that company.

      I'm usually not one to indulge in childish niceties from employers but if they do a whole farewell sob story for people who've only been with the company for a few months, it's surprising they don't go through the same effort for someone who served 10 years.

  • berry580 on 05/06/2021 - 10:26

    He's getting full pay, sounds like a win.
    Whatever farewells you want, it can happen outside of the office

  • gromit on 05/06/2021 - 10:34

    Those being forced to leave are generally a significantly higher security risk and are more likely to do something stupid or compulsive out of vengeance or spite. Being escorted out in this circumstance is not a new thing. Personally I would love a redundancy, huge payout and I can walk straight into a contract tomorrow if wanted, however with just on 25 years in the company I would be a very expensive redundancy and I have only seen them happen once in my 25 years at current company.

    My previous company did a huge round of redundancies just before I quit, when they did it they actually had security guards come on site to ensure people did nothing bad and were escorted to their desks to collect personal belonging before being removed from building.

  • Orico on 05/06/2021 - 12:01

    Those being forced to leave are generally a significantly higher security risk and are more likely to do something stupid or compulsive out of vengeance or spite.

    I agree. Being escorted out of the company by security or your manager via cloak and dagger from HR is usually a sign that they're concerned about what you might do. I was once told to advise an employee not to retaliate or cause harm to the complainant.

    My previous company did a huge round of redundancies just before I quit, when they did it they actually had security guards come on site to ensure people did nothing bad and were escorted to their desks to collect personal belonging before being removed from building.

    My old company makes people redundant every year. They usually have security stationed at every lift to ensure people don't cause a scene. They're usually crying or upset because it's one of those companies with cliques and long service employees.

  • Weezle on 05/06/2021 - 13:57
    -1

    Not made redundant, but I had another job lined up so decided to resign. Still served my four weeks notice and I work in financial services. I was not asked to leave when I had told the business I would be leaving.

  • Stevecro on 05/06/2021 - 15:01
    +1

    Moral of the story..don't work and you can't be made redundant

  • blueyez on 05/06/2021 - 16:02

    Depends on the company.

    I worked for a small company who would escort you out of the building if you got a job with a competitor in the same industry.

    My current workplace is much bigger and the contract stipulates that the employer can choose to pay out your notice instead of you actually working it.

    Also keep in mind workplace politics can be in play. I changed roles and didn't even get a goodbye from my former manager or team, just silently moved into another part of the company (not at will, mind you). Best to just move on.

  • Dack Smith on 05/06/2021 - 17:10
    +3

    The business world is rather pathetic really.

    I swear everywhere I’ve been it’s been similar to that Office sitcoms with John Krasinski except without the endearing characters

    Only worse, with gross ineptitude, blatant bullying, cronyism and managerial incompetence in abundance.

    Makes me wonder how people have any faith in corporate capitalism

  • plmko on 05/06/2021 - 19:06

    In my early years I worked hard for the man, put forward many new ideas that gave innovative things in a tired industry and customers trusted me. Decent relationship with everyone in the business and bosses were great (I thought). 5 years and suddenly I get a SMS at 7:30am to assemble at a location not at the office for redundancy. Zero discussion zero negotiation, they even prepacked my stuff.

    Fairly sure I could've made a fuss with fairwork etc but thinking about it getting paid out all benefits and being relieved of all built up responsibilities and work not complete is a sweet deal.

    Generally workplaces don't want people with who work smart or capable. Cheap is the name of the game these day. Lesson is always have an exit plan and move one when something is better.

  • Donaldhump on 05/06/2021 - 21:06
    +1

    Been made redundant twice on the spot, I refused to pack my shit up and told them I’ll do it after hours or they can deliver it to my house, they chose the latter.

    I imagine companies don’t trust employees to hang around.

    One of the places went through a restructure and me and my colleague were not on the new org structure. When I raised my hand and asked where we were the head manager went red in the face…. I then spent nine months with no role on 6 figures doing nothing but Youtube/reddit/ozbargain and then got made redundant.. most mental company

  • bigbadboogieman on 05/06/2021 - 23:28
    +1

    Loyalty to Individuals not Corporations. Relationships go a long way.

    • gromit on 06/06/2021 - 09:58

      Loyalty to yourself first and foremost. Best lesson I learnt was 30 years ago, my then boss (state manager not the owner or anything) gave me my start in the industry and had promoted me relatively quickly. When a great opportunity came up in a competitor I told him I wasn't going to take the job if they could match the pay. He pulled me into his office and asked if "I was a F##$ing moron", He basically told me to wake up, the company is loyal to me because I earn them money and passing up a fantastic opportunity due to loyalty to him was just moronic. I resigned the next day and took up my new role, was best career choice I ever made and loyalty to an individual nearly stopped it.

      • bigbadboogieman on 06/06/2021 - 10:59

        Well you did show some loyalty to him and he reciprocated that loyalty back to you.

        • gromit on 06/06/2021 - 12:00

          only because I was also his friend. Had I just been a well treated employee he would have done his best to persuade me to stay and I would have. Do what is best for you, anyone that you are loyal to or friendly with will understand, if they don't then it was an even more fantastic decision.

  • AngusD on 06/06/2021 - 01:38
    +3

    I think my favourite story from a number of years back was about a company in (I think it was) Singapore. They had a building evac / fire drill thing then once everybody was out of the building they just told them to try going back in. If your card still worked you still had a job, if it didn't then you didn't.

  • GourmetFoodie on 06/06/2021 - 06:11

    Lol went through a restructure once at a company many many years ago where every day a desk would be filled then empty the next. The culture became so toxic!!! People referred to these redundancies as “shootings” and would say things like “yeah, John from xxx department got shot yesterday”. It was pretty f-ed up!

    On another note..,
    I know heaps of really great people that have faced redundancies purely for political reasons and all those people ended up laughing in the end as went on to get better jobs and more money. Some even got begged to return as their absence led to things going wrong.

  • Supercool on 06/06/2021 - 10:11

    Last redundancy I got walked, it was the best. Others in the remaining team soon quit due to the imposed extra workload.. I was the only one who got the payout.

    Last time I quit, I had to work out the notice period (expected), so I timed my notice so that my 4 week period included the Xmas break (all the public holidays). I spent every day of the 2 remaining weeks in the office (with all the office Xmas parties etc.) drinking coffee and chatting, and at the pub for very long lunches. The former employer are now one of my top accounts!

  • elcheapoinoz on 06/06/2021 - 10:35

    Been following this thread for a few days, and haven't seen this been brought up.

    Given that that jobs are no longer for life as they once were, and getting a raise is almosty next to impossible without moving to a new job, this makes sense.
    It's the workforce that hasn't pushed back, If we all start leaving in droves every few years and companies can't retain talent, we'll see good redundancies or other perks becoming the norm again. The majority of is is still hung up on the idea either due to being used to, or out comfort.

    PS: Work what your contract dictates, no more, no less. and always look for better opportunities and leave.
    My companie usually pays 1 month more, which they ask you to stick around, but in practice you're free to look for another job

  • wallet72 on 06/06/2021 - 12:48

    I work in IT and it's become common to see people 'walked out'. It's not automatically a bad thing like it used to be, it's about risk management and the perception of risk management. It's also a benefit to the person leaving, I mean if there is an act of sabotage or theft etc during the notice period the fickle finger of blame may be cast at the person leaving.

  • negger on 06/06/2021 - 14:03

    Why do want to sit on your hands and bitch about stuff once the decision is made?. Get the money and get the eff out.

  • OpenAI on 06/06/2021 - 14:55

    I am confused redundancy is the best in Australia you get 4 weeks plus off, redundancy payment usually minimum 2 weeks plus and accumulated leave that is a lot of pay for doing nothing.

    If you want to say goodbye arrange a lunch or dinner problem solved. Not having to tell a sob story or listen to your managers fake story about how valuable you are is actually a positive!

  • kanmen on 06/06/2021 - 22:46

    Is the National Employment Standard about consultation about major workplace change not relevant to redundancies or is it just for basically everything but that?

    • tolchok on 07/06/2021 - 09:35
      +1

      The NES doesn't deel with consultation, though there clauses that are standard in EBAs and Awards (very few current workplace instruments won't have them).

      The Fair Work Act sets out at section 389(b) that for a dismissal to be a genuine redundancy that "the employer has complied with any obligation in a modern award or enterprise agreement that applied to the employment to consult about the redundancy.

      It is something many employers do not do properly, if at all, leaving them open to unfair dismissal claims.

      • kanmen on 07/06/2021 - 15:59

        Thanks for the clarification, yes I thought I've seen that clause many times so I thought it was in the NES but this makes sense.

        I have seen many situations where unfair dismissal claims have been lodged due to employers not meeting the standard to consult about changes to workplaces.

        I would suggest anyone and everyone to be aware of their rights especially as it relates to their awards and minimum obligations of the employer.

  • bluemagicwind on 07/06/2021 - 09:28

    I was working in a big company as a permanent position and they keek me out in one short meeting and ask me don't tell anyone and just go home. that's how they redundant me and after that, I always working on my backup first. It's a regular thing.

  • Eeples on 07/06/2021 - 11:10
    -5

    Poor guy didn't get a chance to get a cake, listen to his manager tell anecdotes and didn't get a chance to tell a sob story.

    Poor, poor snowflake.

    And the OP whines about it here; maybe different if the guy was a poof or a chick, I suppose.

  • FW190 on 07/06/2021 - 12:39
    +1

    personally, I have experience in both given x weeks of notice, and marched out of the office immediately, both have it's advantages/disadvantages.

    x weeks notice - we basically did the bare minimum in the final weeks, instead spent that time looking for work or browsing internet, but the count down was painful.

    marched out of the office - we were paid 4 extra weeks in lieu of notice (on top of whatever entitlements by law), while the free money was great, but you would end up like those memes where you were sitting by the side of the road wondering what you will do now.

    in both cases, the writing was on the wall for a long time so it wasn't really a surprise.

    one time, someone got made redundant but IT forgot to cancel his email account, the next day, everyone in the company received an email from this former employee sharing his thoughts on his former employer :)

  • hts on 07/06/2021 - 12:39

    I was given 6 weeks notice after being made redundant at a company I had worked at for 8 months, so can't really complain here I guess.

    Was around christmas time, about 3 months before my child was born, and only let go because the business manager decided to get into a cock swinging contest and dumped their largest client (who was also my main client), so it is possible the felt bad, who knows.

  • mousie on 07/06/2021 - 12:52
    +1

    I've been made redundant,, twice

    1st instance, given a month's notice.. I said do you think I'm going to be productive.. and can I look for a job straight away (got paid out and they doubled my employee share offer - and I was brought in the next week as a consultant) 0 then found a job in the following week.

    2nd Instance due to personality conflict i.e. not a genuine reduncancy. I was offered to say goodbye to the staff that I manage, I declined and left. they didn't know I had accepted a job offer already and hadn't provided notice.

    Best advice to anyone that this happens to.. Redundancy can happen to anyone.. When it happens employers are shit scare of litigation, so always ask them to 'double' or 'triple' any period of notice… They will have provisions for this and there's nothing wrong with picking up a temp contract if out of a job on short notice… being employed is a great marketing strategy for any jobseeker.

  • brandt on 07/06/2021 - 15:23

    Depends on the company, churn and culture. I left after 10 years, and many of my cohort and people I'd worked with had left. What was left were people who had been with the company a few years to a few months. Some of those who left with a year or two got massive farewells and effusive praise from leadership (who had joined the company much later than I had).. when I left, I didn't even get a beer at the pub. I had a quiet drink with the 1 person who was there longer than me, and we drank to the good times. Handed in my tools and went my merry way with a year's worth of pay in back pocket.

  • maderedundant on 07/06/2021 - 16:08

    Too late was made redundant.

    • SlavOz on 07/06/2021 - 19:44

      Sorry to hear. It's happened to me a few odd times and most people say it's just a forced uptake of a new opportunity. Changing jobs usually means you get a pay rise as well so it's not that bad if you can get past the few months it takes to get hired again.

  • Baghern on 07/06/2021 - 16:46

    I don't see the issue.

    Assuming they did nothing wrong they get paid out for the period they should have worked.

    For someone 10years, they're getting much more than 4weeks pay.

    The reason for walkouts is usually security issues

    Some companies like mine don't do immediate walkouts for the sales guys, which i was surprised at. But let them clean up their work, couple of weeks then go on their 'gardening leave'.

    It only takes one bad experience for the company, or some one in charged for them to make it immediate walk outs.

    IT is the obvious one to do walk outs.

  • CoreJava on 07/06/2021 - 18:44

    Well, guess he is dead wood. Company chop and trim to become lean to survive this climate

  • mightyfes on 08/06/2021 - 10:47

    Yeah, it's so much worse to not have to work for the 4 weeks and get your pay to take a holiday.

    If anyone genuinely cares about saying bye they find a way.

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