The Shortcoming of Modern Day Redundancies

SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 09:00

Do any companies still do a 4-week notice period or is it standard to just be paid out and escorted off-site right away? I've seen both big and small businesses go for the quick route of canning someone on the spot. It's never affected me personally but I can't imagine anything worse for the unfortunate people who it happens to.

Recently saw a guy get made redundant after 10 years at the company. He didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to his colleagues/clients, wrap up his work, or take it in. Just told to pack up his stuff and wait for his money. Meanwhile people who started just a few weeks prior and decided the job wasn't for them (effectively wasting the company's time) get the typical farewell parade, goodbye lunch, sob story about how much we'll miss you and what an asset you've been. It just seems like a patronising cultural gesture.

Moral of the story - don't get made redundant, I guess.

Education & Work

Comments

  • teacherer on 03/06/2021 - 09:05
    +68

    Thanks

    teacherer on 03/06/2021 - 09:05 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • bobbified on 03/06/2021 - 09:05
    +69

    From the company's perspective, the people who are leaving involuntarily are a potential security risk. Those who leave voluntarily aren't.

    • Chandler on 03/06/2021 - 09:18
      +9

      Those who leave voluntarily aren't.

      Not necessarily.

      Being in a sensitive position (sales, upper management) and/or moving to competitor are two that (especially if together) I would be surprised for you to not get you paid out your notice period.

      In my (limited) experience, Sales staff frequently go immediately (usually moving to a competitor). My last voluntary "leaving" (quit - moving to a competitor), I worked my notice period; but I wasn't in sales and had projects to finish up, so unsurprising.

      • SF3 on 03/06/2021 - 09:45

        OR potential security risk

        Yep - I think you competitor would also be a risk.

      • onetwothreefour on 03/06/2021 - 14:11
        +15

        If you are leaving voluntarily then you would have already stolen as many post it notes, toilet paper and client info as possible so no point kicking you out straight away, might as well get some work out of you. Whereas if you didn't know you were being let go at least the company can prevent you from doing any damage by walking you out.

        At my workplace, it seems if you are going to a competitor then you get walked out straight away, also if you are being let go. Other than that you work through your notice period. Personally, I'd prefer to finish up on the same day I was being let go, why do anymore work for an employer who doesn't want you anyway?

      • dizzle on 04/06/2021 - 17:24
        +4

        The risk isn't just about moving to a competitor, but people who are let go can often want retaliation. Deleting files, emailing clients/suppliers and bad mouthing the company, or just doing a bad job that causes others more work.

        Saying that, the escorting someone out straight away sounds more like a firing, or a firing hidden as a redundancy.

        A proper redundancy where a position is no longer required often needs people to tie up loose ends, or to pass responsabilities to others, hence a couple of weeks.

    • Bisah1342 on 04/06/2021 - 19:28
      -2

      What sales do you work in - SaaS? mind if i DM?

      • bmerigan on 04/06/2021 - 21:20
        +5

        Amway pitch incoming!

        • Bisah1342 on 04/06/2021 - 21:21
          -2

          hahaha no. No MLM stuff here. I am just genuinely curious given he is in upper management, and may have some insights i would want..

    • nikey2k27 on 05/06/2021 - 20:40
      -1

      IT staff who get made redundant cannot touch keyboard once told take secure off site pass remove key cards. i been made redundant quite like security gard take to your give you box and tell get stuff well they unplug keyboard.

      • sakurashu on 07/06/2021 - 13:24

        This is nonsense - I've had colleagues who got made redundant work for a period of weeks before leaving

      • dharmesht on 07/06/2021 - 16:27

        Not sure why you got negged, this is what happens at many places.

        • Cyphar on 08/06/2021 - 09:49

          Same here. I work in IT and anybody that in most businesses I've worked for, once someone in IT resigns that has administrator access, their account is disabled immediately and paid out their notice period. Too much of a security risk to keep around. I've seen what other disgruntled sysadmins have done, including working for a local council where a colleague decided to change the passwords on a server and locked everyone out. It took me a long time to recover it. I completely agree with the process since then.

  • SF3 on 03/06/2021 - 09:07
    +9

    Ok

    Modern Day Redundancies

    Not modern.

    • GG57 on 03/06/2021 - 10:46
      +2

      Not sure why someone would neg-vote your comment; this practice has been around for decades at least.

      • pjetson on 03/06/2021 - 13:46
        +12

        There's actually quite a good reason for it - the neg-voters around here are brain-dead.

  • SmiTTy on 03/06/2021 - 09:08
    +2

    Might be more to the story than what your see

    I Work for big company.
    Redundancy notice is 3 months
    (it used to be 1 month with bigger payout, now it's longer notice smaller/capped payout)

    • tolchok on 07/06/2021 - 09:25

      Notice is between 1 week (from the day you start) and 4 weeks (>5 years service) plus an extra week if the employee is over 45 and had worked more than 2 years, unless there are notice provisions in a contract or workplace instrument (EBA, Award) that are more generous.

      An employee can be paid in lieu of notice, put on 'garden leave' or be required to work it.

      Redundancy pay is generally between 4 weeks (>1 but <2 years service) and 16 weeks (>9 but <10 years service, dropping back to 12 weeks redundancy >10 years service). There are some EBAs which are more generous than that, though they are becoming significantly less frequent and less generous over recent years.

  • Archi on 03/06/2021 - 09:20
    +6

    depends on what your role is also.

    been at a place where the type of work i did was highly confidential, so basically get marched out the door straight away after signing multitude of non disclosures.

    • Lunarboogie on 03/06/2021 - 09:49
      +3

      Ohh the plot thickens.

    • bweiss on 04/06/2021 - 08:31
      +13

      If they're only getting you to sign NDAs at the conclusion of your work… then it likely wasn't all that confidential. And you really shouldn't have signed them, after all at the end of your employment they no longer have any leverage in your relationship… what are they going to do if you don't sign… fire you? ;)
      You should have asked for cash monies… I generally prefer a black suitcase full of pineapples… after all, they need to incentive me to sign.. I have no legal obligation.

      NDAs should be signed PRIOR to any exposure to the potentially disclosable material.

      For government secrets.. they don't need to have you sign an NDA.. the Crimes Act typically has sufficient punishment in it to avoid squeaky wheels.

      • Archi on 04/06/2021 - 09:47
        -6

        no there was plenty of NDA's at the start of the projects.. even more NDA's regarding the redundancies and various other intricacies of the work i did.

        after all, they need to incentive me to sign.. I have no legal obligation.

        it's called duty of care and work ethic which many people don't have

        • trapper on 04/06/2021 - 11:49
          +10

          Why would you sign an NDA when you're getting the boot?? Pay me or get lost. lol

          • Archi on 04/06/2021 - 12:14
            +1

            @trapper: they have their paper work to fill out. someone is only doing their job to tick the boxes in requesting i do it..

            i was leaving anyway so it wouldn't matter to me.

            technically i wasn't fired, the project finished and was just sitting around.

          • Amour on 04/06/2021 - 20:07
            +3

            @trapper: The NDA you sign when getting the boot covers the terms of your exit ($$ paid etc). There will be an incentive offered to sign an NDA (typically more $$).

            Confidentially whilst doing your job should be covered by the employment contract.

            • trapper on 06/06/2021 - 15:53
              +1

              @Amour:

              There will be an incentive offered to sign an NDA (typically more $$).

              The comment I replied to said there was no such incentive offered, just 'duty of care and work ethic'

              • dizzle on 06/06/2021 - 20:21
                +1

                @trapper: Often it's a reminder that you already signed a NDA when you started working there…More of an aknowledgment of existing restrictions than accepting new NDAs

                • Hippy on 06/06/2021 - 21:18

                  @dizzle: exactly this; the wording is usually; 'hey remember that form you signed? well this is a reminder'

              • Archi on 07/06/2021 - 08:47
                -1

                @trapper: i was only refferring to the statement @bweiss made

                You should have asked for cash monies… I generally prefer a black suitcase full of pineapples… after all, they need to incentive me to sign.. I have no legal obligation.

                All i was saying not my style to ASK for money,

                and yes money was offered and taken in return for my discretion.

  • Seraphin7 on 03/06/2021 - 09:38
    +1

    As ever, there is likely some important detail missing here.

    In my experience, people are normally notified their role is being made redundant, then go into a period of "reassignment", and then into the final notice period. The whole process can run for two to four months, pending other details.

    Is there something specific to your mate's role that would make it appropriate for him to be moved out quickly compared with the other example you mention?

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 10:13

      Not my mate, just one isolated example of many that I've noticed.

      In this case, the guy worked in the tech/Web design department. Not really dealing with any sensitive info I would imagine, but since all employees can access internal documents you could say that everyone poses a security risk.

      • Seraphin7 on 03/06/2021 - 11:08

        Interesting. I've seen plenty in similar roles hang around for the two to four months I mentioned.

        Maybe its the policy of the company? Maybe there was something specific to the individuals you're referencing?

      • nikey2k27 on 05/06/2021 - 20:42

        IT who get made should always be remove if mean pay out 4 week pay for zero. he could have (profanity) company told over.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2021 - 19:46

      Sounds like the sort of thing only very very large companies that have unions (or government departments) do. Standard practice is for the 'at risk' portion to last no more than a few days. Smaller companies that actually have redundancies can't afford to have redundant staff hanging around for months.

      • Seraphin7 on 05/06/2021 - 10:48

        The point is that in my experience, I've found people "work" the notice period (how much work is done being a separate conversation). I've only seen people straight out the door when it's a "mass redundancy" situation, or where they/their role is seen at "at risk".

  • jace88 on 03/06/2021 - 09:52
    +2

    The thing you may not appreciate is even if someone is walked out the door on the spot, they may still be getting the notice period pay (in addition to redundancy payouts).

    Risks associated with keeping someone who has been made redundant could outweigh any potential benefit of having them stick around whether it be market/competitor sensitive information, impact on clients/customers, impact on other staff/colleagues, etc… and in some ways ripping off the bandaid might be a preferred option.

    I'm no expert in this field but I can see pros/cons of each approach and it would largely depend on the individual, the role they had, organisation, etc…

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 10:10
      +1

      Agree, I don't deny that at all. If it was my company, I'd be very weary about keeping someone around for 4 weeks after telling them that they've been canned after years of hard work.

      But at the same time, you send a poor message to other staff members when you do this. Not a good way to make anyone feel valued. At the very least, they could organise an offsite farewell for the person at a later date.

      • pharkurnell on 03/06/2021 - 10:41
        +1

        Not a good way to make anyone feel valued.

        Agree..
        2 ladies have left our place in last month, (one retired one had enough) both had 15-20 yrs up their sleeve - no farewell nothing.

      • PopCounty on 04/06/2021 - 20:51
        +1

        There is one positive about it. The person getting one’s notice paid is immediately available for other job. So might get better chance to get offer as well.

        Person made redundant would start job hunt immediately anyway.

        In one of Uni a person was made redundant after about 20 years. Got paid redundancy package and a months salary coming out in 6 figures. Funny part was he got contract offer in 2 weeks time in the same uni with much higher take home. Sometimes these redundancies may be good.

  • Presence on 03/06/2021 - 09:55
    +9

    Always be ready to leave any job at a moments notice! They don't like you and will get rid of you the moment it makes financial sense.

    Don't store any personal documents on the work computer. Don't have any sentimental items at work. Don't leave more belongings at work thank you can carry in a box. Always make a copy of important work things (eg. training certificates) at home.

    • pharkurnell on 03/06/2021 - 10:18
      +4

      Don't store any personal documents on the work computer

      This lots.. we had a lady who was at our joint for 15yrs.. before she left (redundant) she only used her work email for everything.. finances, legals, gov co etc… was a nightmare for her after she'd gone

      • Other on 07/06/2021 - 13:38
        +1

        Literally how hard is it to set up a free yahoo or gmail address for personal emails???

        Company policy should expressly forbid this.

        • pharkurnell on 07/06/2021 - 13:50

          Agree totally!
          with us, its who has time to manage this and 209342039480329 other things.
          We used to be a team of 9 when I started here… team of 1 now.

          • shoppe on 29/06/2021 - 22:37

            @pharkurnell: I'm sorry to hear you lost your job.

            Ohh hang on are you the last man standing. I guess the eight others guy just didn't like you. Lol

            • pharkurnell on 30/06/2021 - 10:05
              +1

              @shoppe: Save the best till last…

              Cheap deodorant does it everytime :D

    • JIMB0 on 03/06/2021 - 12:17
      -3

      You can set up a work email to forward to a folder on your personal email. Handy for such situations. Probably wouldn't work forever though.

      • orangetrain on 03/06/2021 - 12:29
        +2

        Isn't that making your personal computer containing company property and could be subject to seizure? IANAL

        • JIMB0 on 04/06/2021 - 08:38

          Then forward it to a cloud based service such as gmail.

          • derrida derider on 05/06/2021 - 20:24
            +1

            @JIMB0: If your work is even slightly confidential then your work computer won't have access to a cloud folder that can be accessed from outside.

            • jace88 on 05/06/2021 - 22:44
              +1

              @derrida derider: Surprised you got negged. But I would go one step further and say most organisations would probably not allow you to auto forward work emails (even if they're of a personal nature) to a personal email.

    • MrBear on 04/06/2021 - 09:44
      +3

      Always be ready to leave any job at a moments notice!

      What? no. I'm not living my life being anxious all the time that my job is going to end. Let the anxiety only start after you're fired.

      And how are you ready for this other than an emergency fund? You can't have a job lined up.

      Don't have any sentimental items at work.

      Why not? Let's make this work environment so dreadful you hope they fire you.

    • Bob Svargis on 05/06/2021 - 08:02
      +5

      I’m amazed how stupid some people can be in relation to using their work email for personal stuff. I used to see it happen all the time when I was a tech. Same with personal photos etc. Re-imaging misbehaving computers was often a total pain in the backside because of this.

  • mini2 on 03/06/2021 - 10:04

    Could be worse, some places like Hong Kong where the employer can use your super (it's called MPF over there) to hedge against any redundancy payout. Strange workplace laws over there…

    • PeteDH on 04/06/2021 - 17:40
      +2

      And it could also be better like it is in many European countries, where being marched out the door seems only something from American (and Australian, I guess) movies.

  • mrvaluepack on 03/06/2021 - 10:12
    +25

    Why is this a bad thing? I would love to get 4 weeks pay and not have to go to work or attend farewell lunches.

    • Rilo 117 on 03/06/2021 - 10:32
      +2

      haha this!

      I resigned from a job and told me to pack up everything and leave, so I did. got paid for 4 weeks notice period + holidays.
      Initially I was a bit upset about it, had been there for 4 years with few close friends I still catch up with, however the 4 weeks off was the best!

    • Cherry12 on 04/06/2021 - 13:20

      That's right. If I resigned and they paid the 4 weeks is like extra holiday.

      For redundancy it would still feel bad if you worked there many years.

      • derrida derider on 05/06/2021 - 20:38
        +1

        But there is a right way and a wrong way to do this sort of stuff. It's still dumb of the companies to make the other employees feel like you don't believe in loyalty at all - because they will feel the same to you.

        Sure, get them out of the building fast. But make it clear to everyone you are just covering off a security risk, not humiliating the person. That despite appearances you're not just being an arsehole (even if you are).

        Certainly let the person say a quick goodbye to their colleagues, and if they are long serving employees do not fail to arrange a later farewell do for them.

  • Muzeeb on 03/06/2021 - 10:35
    +6

    Musn't be working for a 'woke' financial institution.

    • thrillhouse on 04/06/2021 - 08:17
      +26

      I'm upvoting you because I understand the reference, and OP strikes me as a complete nutcase inept of understanding the concepts of inclusivity, diversity, compassion and science.

      They're really here dismissing "modern day" practices such as redundancy - which has been around for decades - but holds the most archaic beliefs of their own:

      LBGTQIA+ community will die out
      Anti-Vaccine
      Misogynistic viewpoints

      That's just the tip of the iceberg (I really couldn't be bothered, nor comfortable digging in any deeper).
      Unfortunately, I think SlavOz is going to have an incredibly difficult life ahead of them if they continue to foster the amount of resentment and ignorance they portray online.

      • SlavOz on 04/06/2021 - 13:34
        -5

        I'm probably not gonna get a sensible response, but I'll ask anyway, just out of some tiny sense of hope. I've asked this before from many people as self-righteous as you and have been conveniently ignored every time.

        Could you explain precisely how expressing discontent with female managers equates to mysogony? That's like saying anyone who criticises Barrack Obama is a racist who hates all black people. You either don't understand the very words you're uttering or you're just short on material.

        Also, the fact that you think an ideology or condition can't die out is just a complete rejection of history. Do you have any idea how many social beliefs, practices, or physiological conditions have once existed that eventually died out?

        • Icecold5000 on 04/06/2021 - 15:44
          +1

          Honesty if you don't know when to STFU then I can see redundancy being visited upon you again and again.

        • terrys on 04/06/2021 - 17:03
          +2

          " to the gay community, a group of people who's bloodline will most likely die out in the next generation due to the inability or unwillingness to procreate."

          You weren't born that stupid, other wise there would have been medical intervention, so you must have worked pretty hard at being so ignorant and nasty.

          Given that you apparently imagine that non-binary sexual preferences only appeared a generation ago [sequitur ex originali dicitur], you should count your blessings that any organisation is prepared to tolerate your stupidity and downright nastiness.

        • dizzle on 04/06/2021 - 17:35

          That's like saying anyone who criticises Barrack Obama is a racist who hates all black people

          Which I'll note is a view that a lot of republicans have (I have some American friends of friends on facebook that I don't interact with much, but they beleive it)…That Obama is the cause of all the race issues in America. As if there haven't been race issues in the US for generations.

          Could you explain precisely how expressing discontent with female managers equates to mysogony

          Because mysogonists tend to have a problem with women having power over them (whether the women deserves it or not). So it's an assumption that can be made (whether it's valid or not)

        • CrowReally on 06/06/2021 - 17:28
          +1

          "Could you explain precisely how expressing discontent with female managers equates to mysogony?"

          We all know you're a troll, but I figure if we get an answer on public record here then you can't try to fly the "wide-eyed innocent of the world who's Just Asking Questions" act you like to trot out whenever someone tries to pin you down to details.

          What is the relevance of "female" in that sentence? Why would you start your stand-up routine with "Female managers be like this-" if "female" wasn't a key part of the discussion you're making? It's like people who refer to "Asian drivers" or "male nurses". Unless you're making a specific point about race or gender, that adjective isn't needed, and it's weird that you'd think to include it. It's the difference between "CEOs suck the life blood out of the company and leave when they get a better offer" and "Female CEOs suck the life blood out of the company and leave when they get a better offer".

          This is how it plays in your head:
          You: "My manager is really unprofessional and making my life difficult"
          Them: "Oh, how are they doing that?"
          You: "Well, she-"
          Them: "MYSOGYNIST! WE FOUND ONE! BEGIN THE PUBLIC TRIAL!"

          This is how it plays in reality:
          You: "My female manager is really unprofessional and making my life difficult. A lot of bitchiness, gossip and clans".
          Them: "Wow, bitchiness, gossip and clans. Those are quite clearly terms applied to both male and female managers, I'm sure you're not actually a mysogynist"
          You: "It's only a matter of time before someone woke will call me that, though"
          Them: "Yeah, people are just lining up to call you out on your neutral language".

          • SlavOz on 06/06/2021 - 21:04
            +3

            @CrowReally: The purpose of calling them women was because the division that I noticed in the culture was blatantly based on gender. Details matter. You're suggesting that any time a woman does something unfavourable I shouldn't be allowed to mention that they're women, out of some fear that it might tarnish the reputation of women worldwide.

            See, here's the thing - I know you don't actually believe this. If you did, you'd be equally outraged at the ongoing obsession by the media to make everything about gender and observe every measurable social outcome based on gender. Eg - how often have you heard that "most violent crimes are carried out by men" or "most Fortune 500 CEOs are male"? How often do you see a story on the news that says "a X-year old MAN has stabbed and killed his partner today".

            I'd wager you've hear these countless times as they are central talking points in the discussion of gender dynamics and inequality, yet something tells me you don't react with the same self-righteous woke (yes I said it) hostility when you hear them.

            The only thing you've accomplished with your post is prove how far to the extreme your worldview is. Suggesting that any revelation of gender is mysogonist because it makes women look bad is just ridiculous. What you call.mysogony is what normal people would refer to as accountability and attention to details.

            • CrowReally on 07/06/2021 - 08:51
              +1

              @SlavOz: "The purpose of calling them women was because the division that I noticed in the culture was blatantly based on gender. Details matter. You're suggesting that any time a woman does something unfavourable I shouldn't be allowed to mention that they're women, out of some fear that it might tarnish the reputation of women worldwide."

              Yes, and racists bring the ethnicity of car drivers up because the difference in car driving ability is (to them) blatantly based on race. You're doubling down on this, not disproving my point. "It just so happens that the unprofessional, bitchy, gossiping managers turned out to be women, that's all". Scroll back up and re-read the "In your head/in reality" thing. This is what is happening, live, right now.

              "how often have you heard that "most violent crimes are carried out by men" or "most Fortune 500 CEOs are male"?"

              Yeah, that's not a matter of how an observation is framed, that's the underlying data.
              If there was a problem with CEO embezzlement and the news report was "What's the deal with men and embezzlement, look at how these male CEOs.." then we might have something to discuss. The fact remains that 93.4% of fortune 500 CEOs are men is a fact, and facts don't care about your feelings (about presenting data).

              And how many different ways are you going to spell "misogyny", anyway? Are you trying to avoid search engine results pairing you with that word?

      • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 15:52
        +3

        This quote, I think sums up the modern day.

        The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

        • SlavOz on 04/06/2021 - 18:37
          +5

          Which I'll note is a view that a lot of republicans have

          Sure, just like a lot of Democrats believe all white hetero Christians are parasites and need to stop breeding.

          However if someone criticises a single white person over unfavourable actions, I won't put them in that basket.

          Because mysogonists tend to have a problem with women having power over them

          Which I never suggested in my post. The post in question was me saying that I didn't like the culture of politics and forced humility created by my managers who happen to have a vagina.

          If this makes me a mysogonist, does that mean any women who call out the patriarchy or male-domination in some industries are misandrists?

          • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 20:18

            @SlavOz: You replied to @dizzle but clicked on the wrong reply link.

  • freefall101 on 03/06/2021 - 10:42
    +1

    Usually a redundancy happens as part of a restructure, in which case often they're out the door simply because their job doesn't exist any more. Why keep them around, what are they going to do except be bad for morale? It's better for everyone to just get them out of there.

    It's also sometimes a way of getting a long term employee out the door who you don't want without going through a performance eval stage or a lengthy internal investigation or something. They may have just been crap at their job for years and someone finally got sick of it.

    But if you've worked somewhere for 10 years and your only chance to say goodbye is a company organised party then you weren't a particularly loved employee anyway. I still have regular catch ups with people I've worked with that I cared about, anyone else who cares?

  • AndyC1 on 03/06/2021 - 10:49

    It depends on why they making you redundant and if someone else is there to do your job or if the work is no longer required.

    I have seen it where they keep you for a week and pay you out 4 weeks notice (1 more than required).
    I have also seen it where the person has asked to leave at the end of the day and he did not come back to say good bye.
    I have seen it where people have been walked.
    I have also seen it where the person has had to work to the end of the calendar or financial year, which could be 2 to 3 months away and depending on the manager they will or will not get the 4 week pay.

    Overall it really depends on management as to what they do and how the employee will take the redundancy.

  • ihbh on 03/06/2021 - 10:55
    +1

    Please specify company size - makes huge difference in process.

  • orangetrain on 03/06/2021 - 12:37
    +1

    If the company is not allowing me to network with others at company and/or assisting me in future endeavors, its poor etiquette. They would be getting online reviews from me and I'd have to chase down others which will in turn scare existing employees. Why? The gossip is limited on the floor in front of manager. Outside of work with no management, why not talk about shit about the company in retaliation?

    That's quite a backfire if they intended to quietly fire people to "protect moral".

  • Marty-69 on 03/06/2021 - 12:39
    +7

    One colleague resigned after 12 years, nothing at all for him. Not even an official announcement so we couldn't say farewell.
    An email to my manager bounced, he was kicked out the day before. Nobody knew about it.

    If they make you redundant, they might block all access to email, HR/leave/salary systems, contracts, files etc. so make sure to send copies to a personal email address. Any email from HR or management that can and will be used against me or them, is forwarded. I don't trust anyone anymore ;-)

  • ESEMCE on 03/06/2021 - 12:44
    +2

    Coming up to my 1 year anniversary of being made redundant in 2 weeks.

    I got the boot at 9 years, 11 months.
    Really odd, I was first told on Wednesday and asked to prepare any comments for a followup meeting on Thursday and signed documentation and handed back Laptop, keys and security tag on Friday, so I was hardly walked off site, but I was paid out 4 weeks notice on top of my redundancy payout.
    Turned out pretty great for me as I got a good job offer from a former colleague when I called to ask them to be a referee. I'm on (marginally) more money in a significantly less stressful environment.

    I can only assume there was a push to reduce Salary overhead as it was the 4 most experienced, capable and productive employees in my department who got the chop, not the least experienced, least productive ones.
    There is no way I could have worked that 4 weeks. You feel absolutely betrayed.
    I would have been so angry, it would have been hard to do anything else.
    And as others have said, the whole point of redundancy is that your job doesn't exist anymore… so what would you be supposed to do?

    Once I found out who else was being booted, and I'd processed everything, I was actually relieved that I was being paid to go and I was more worried that they'd withdraw the offer!
    I knew it would be a shit place to work and I would have been immediately actively looking for a new job anyway.
    I also felt very sorry for my colleagues who I knew would have to pick up the extra workload including multiple specialised tasks (for which there was documentation, but for which they had limited experience actually doing).
    2 remaining employees resigned shortly after the clearout as a result of the stress.

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 17:06

      There are ways of still obtaining your long service entitlements even if you were just shy of the 10 year minimum, right?

      • ESEMCE on 04/06/2021 - 15:03
        +1

        Yeah, you start accruing LSL from 7 years, but can't take any of it as actual leave until 10 years (you also get a bonus 4 weeks - I think - in the 10th year).

        There's a clause in the Long Service Leave "laws" (or whatever they're called) obviously to dissuade companies from firing people just before they earn their 10 years LSL.
        As a result, I actually got paid out as part of my redundancy (tax free) as if I'd earned the full 10 years bonus.

        Another of my colleagues, who'd worked 40 years with the company, got a smaller redundancy payout than me as a result of this quirk.

        • happydude on 04/06/2021 - 15:59
          +3

          LSL is state by state. YMMV.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2021 - 20:11

        In QLD if you get let go at 9 years 11 months* you will actually get the absolute maximum redundancy payout possible! At 10 years it decreases 'because you get your LSL' but you still get the LSL after 7 years provided you don't quit / get fired.

        Not sure about NSW but they're the worst state for LSL last I looked. Other states (Vic) you can get LSL after 7 years even if you quit, and SA you get it from day 1.

        Obviously this is varied by awards / EBAs etc, but just as standard.

        The redundancy provisions are national, but LSL is per state.

        • ESEMCE on 07/06/2021 - 10:45

          I'm in SA, you only accrue LSL from 7th year.
          You get nothing if you leave before the 7th year.

    • SlickMick on 04/06/2021 - 08:24

      Very similar thing happened to me, but I don't think it was about money, but insecure management not liking subordinates more qualified than themselves.
      Mine was just before EOFY, so tax office took a huge cut of payout. I don't know whether there was an advantage to company in writing me off before EOY or whether that was just to screw with me.

      I was offered to walk on the day I got back from annual leave, but I exercised my right to stay and attempt to find an alternate position in the company. So got interviewed by one of the same guys who'd just made me redundant, so unsurprisingly was a waste of 4 weeks of my life.

      I'm now in a company that did a mass laying off several years ago, and it is so hard to motivate anyone to work efficiently. Everyone wants to hold onto the smallest repetative tasks as if desperately trying not to become redundant. Which ironically is the exact attitude that makes them redundant.
      I don't know whether it is modern, but I never experienced it in 30 years, and now 2 companies in a row have done it.
      It seems that outsourcing is becoming the norm. I did an IT Leadership course recently where they said that IT used to service the organisation, now they service other organisations, as if that is the new norm.
      I've had 2 jobs where I was undoing that and bringing support back in house. I feel like I'm swimming against the tide.

      • ESEMCE on 04/06/2021 - 15:10

        Yeah, taxman also enjoyed sucking me dry for similar reasons last Financial Year.
        One of my colleagues was smart enough to ask for the payout to be dated to the 1 July which the company obliged.

  • slow on 03/06/2021 - 13:51

    Redundancies often make no sense. My company was told to reduce head count by HQ, so they made a group of people redundant, paid them out, and then hired them back the next day as contractors on more money

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2021 - 17:04
      +3

      Contractors can be culled on short notice without worrying about severance etc. The company also doesn't need to pay other ongoing costs, like super or insurance.

      • SlickMick on 04/06/2021 - 08:28
        +3

        Companies will pay 3 times as much for years and decades without consideration, just so long as it comes from Accounts Payable and not Payroll.

        If EBAs require attempting to insource a role, they will go to great lengths to find loopholes and workaround it.

        It makes no sense if they could muster the slightest amount of forsight to consider the needs and the cost over more than 1 month.

        • GG57 on 04/06/2021 - 09:37

          Paying 3 times as much was certainly the case a few years ago, but more recently those contractor rates have been cut extensively to be nearer the permanent rates of pay (+ a little to cover leave accruals etc).
          Recent legislative changes have made it less attractive to employ contractors for extended periods, as they are classified as permanents (in relation to some standard benefits) at a certain point of that employment period.

          • SlickMick on 04/06/2021 - 12:19
            +1

            @GG57: They get around that by not hiring contractors directly - they hire "consultants". The consultant would have been paid $50+ph in house, but now gets $30-40 for the contracting firm, who charge them out at $160-$240ph. Still going on where I work.

          • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2021 - 09:08

            @GG57: This has already been figured out and hence we had sub-contracting, some companies all except on paper owned by the the same group.

        • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 15:34

          so long as it comes from Accounts Payable and not Payroll.

          ditto on this one. So often it is the way the books ought to look (like, for the sake of chasing the philosopher's stone, to seeks it's power, but know it is not real…) not whether it makes overall sense.

  • OzHunterNSW on 04/06/2021 - 10:32
    +1

    You are the "precarious" where security is but a memory. They have a dozen if not more who can take you place that afternoon. People placing themselves in ever un-surmountable debt only have themselves to blame. Welcome to the world the PRECARIAT.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 04/06/2021 - 11:24
    +1

    As long as they pay you out fairly i dont have an issue.

    The issue i have and have always had is sick leave isnt paid out

  • payless69 on 04/06/2021 - 11:39

    So sad!

  • yadq on 04/06/2021 - 11:40
    +2

    I've never been been just "escorted off-site right away" even though at the companies I worked for it has been happening before.
    Every single time it has happened it was either related to the misconduct or potential risks of the person remaining at work during their notice period. In a few cases it has happened to people who have left to the direct competitor of ours (against the contract, but that's a different story).

    Also, I'm not really sure what the big deal is in here.
    If such thing happens, the employee still gets paid their 4-weeks salary. I wouldn't mind it.

    Not to mention situations like this are clearly stated in the one's contract.

  • trapper on 04/06/2021 - 11:57

    If you're redundant then there should be no job left for you to do.

    If the company expects you to work the notice period then there must still be a job to do - so technically you're not really redundant are you.

    And it starts to sound a lot more like an unfair dismissal.

    • 91rs on 04/06/2021 - 12:01
      +1

      That's why restructures are the new redundancy.
      Different reporting lines, change in job titles or the person having to apply for other openings in the company and if unsuccessful then the redundancy is part of the restructure, someone may be doing a fair amount of what they used to be doing but its no longer the same job.
      It can be sneaky like that!

      • FallaM on 07/06/2021 - 12:45

        Lol this is so true, seen it first hand.

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