Scammed Whilst Trying to Purchase First Car - Need Opinions on What to Do

hotdogwater22 on 30/06/2021 - 15:04
Last edited 30/06/2021 - 15:09

About 18 months ago, I was looking to purchase my first car as I was about to get my Probationary Plates.

Upon searching online, my father and I were interested in a specific car, so we got in contact with the owner.

The car at the time was listed on a Facebook group and was in the exact colour and model I wanted. At the time, the owner told me that there were several people interested in the car, so my father and I offered the seller a deal - we would pay an upfront refundable deposit to allow us first dibs on the car subject to us actually testing it in person to ensure it is mechanically sound. If we were not happy with the car upon mechanical inspection, the amount would be refunded back to us.

The seller agreed to the amount refundable deposit (I have e-mails from him confirming this) so we paid the amount to his bank account. Later in the week, we arranged for the car to be taken to our local mechanic, in order to give it a once over before purchasing it. The seller’s brother drove the car over to our mechanic, and after inspecting it and driving it around the block, our mechanic said the car was a lemon as it had significant transmission issues that would cost thousands to fix it.

Following our mechanic informing us of this, we then tried contacting the seller back via both SMS/E-mail to retrieve the amount back, he responded saying the mechanic flogged the car and broke the transmission and that the amount would not be refunded back. He then proceeded to block me on Facebook, so I could not send any further SMS/messages/calls.

I know this occurred a while back, and that the sum of money lost is immaterial, but it is more so the principle that annoys me. I am happy to pay the fee to take it to VCAT to have it investigated, but I know the seller will push the ‘OP’s mechanic broke the transmission’ argument, so it's essentially his word vs the mechanics.

Evidently, I've put this aside for a while now, as I thought there was no point even fighting for it (given the word v word), but a friend has said they've had success with VCAT and that I can still fight it as simple contract law is enforced for up to 6 years~ apparently.

Automotive

Comments

  • bobbified on 30/06/2021 - 15:07
    +26

    About 18 months ago…

    You haven't done anything about it in the last 18 months? Did you, after all this time, suddenly have an ephiphany or something?

  • Pelicannn on 30/06/2021 - 15:08
    +7

    About 18 months ago

    SOOL son.

    is this something for small claims court?

    No. It’s something to move on from.

  • Hithere on 30/06/2021 - 15:09
    +11

    18 months? You're joking.

    Put it down to a life lesson and move on.

  • Gervais fanboy on 30/06/2021 - 15:10
    -1

    lol I had a similar thing happen to me when I bought my first car and I was actually dumb enough to buy that particular lemon..

    The weirdest part is how these scammers find mechanics dodgy enough to issue RW certificates..

    Anyways, you live and you learn..

    • Quantumcat on 30/06/2021 - 20:08
      +2

      The car only needs working lights, mirrors existing, and a clear windscreen to pass roadworthy. Roadworthy isn't a mechanical check.

      • Gervais fanboy on 30/06/2021 - 21:53
        -3

        The RWC by definition ensures that the car is safe and road-ready…

        A car with ‘significant transmission issues’, wouldn’t be categorised as safe or road-ready… Possibility of transmission failure can be lethal.

        No quality mechanic would let that pass..
        I am familiar with the RWC checklist that is issued to mechanics and thats what I had based my original point on…

        • Quantumcat on 01/07/2021 - 08:35
          -2

          Where in the list do they give it a mechanical check? Mine have only ever been looked at from the outside and the guy has asked me to apply brakes (for brake light), turn on indicators, and headlights to check they work.

          • this is us on 01/07/2021 - 09:12
            +1

            @Quantumcat: Please, name the company you used for this RWC so we stay away.

        • pegaxs on 01/07/2021 - 11:02
          +2

          Not the job of a RWC tester. They don’t go around diagnosing transmission issues. They check that lights work, no oil leaks, brakes work, steering isn’t notchy and suspension isnt about to fall out of the vehicle. Hell, I once took a motorcycle in with a seized engine and it passed a road worthy. Didn’t even get it off the trailer.

          My last blue slip/pink slip (NSW RWC) took them all of 15 mins. It went over a pit to look for oil leaks, suspension and steering wasn’t damaged/loose and brake thickness was ok. A quick 1 min drive for the brake test and back to the car park. The paperwork took longer than the roadworthy test.

          A RWC is NOT a defacto replacement for a mechanical inspection and telling people that it is is really bad information.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2021 - 15:19

    How much deposit did you pay

    • hotdogwater22 on 30/06/2021 - 15:19

      $500

      • skid on 30/06/2021 - 16:25
        +9

        I don't think you and your dad did anything wrong except paying a deposit amount greater than you would feel comfortable losing. Next time give a $50 deposit and let the seller keep it if the car is a lemon.

      • brendanm on 30/06/2021 - 16:32

        A lot cheaper than the repairs on the car at least. What sort of car was it?

      • Zachary on 07/08/2021 - 13:17

        yes, what car was it?

  • netjock on 30/06/2021 - 15:19
    +7

    Let it be a lesson.

    1. Never paying for first dibs on anything.
    2. People's words are usually worth nothing, they will shift the blame when they can.
    3. You've lost an immaterial amount, call yourself lucky and don't be a fool twice. It was a cheap lesson.
    4. Principles: if you have good principles stick to them, the important lesson is beware a lot of people don't have any therefore refer to #1 above.
    • Trying2SaveABuck on 30/06/2021 - 23:46
      -2

      I agree with all the points but this one…

      "1. Never paying for first dibs on anything."

      Most of the time the 'early bird' gets the worm - pre-ordering, putting deposits down etc is a smart idea on highly sort after items to secures a purchase - the issue is OP put a deposit down to some random scammer on the internet not a reputable business.

      I've been scammed once by a tradesmen and I learnt a valuable lesson only deal with reputable business no matter how much cheaper something is it isnt worth getting scammed out of you're money

      OP met this bloke on facebook the deal should be been a cash on purchase agreement only pending a mechanical review in which the seller would take it to the mechanic and OP would pay for the inspection.

      Just like buying things off Gumtree or anything else that doesn't accept paypal CASH ON PICK UP ONLY.

      But for cars in particular my advice would be dont buy anything that doesnt come with at least a 12 month Warranty - i dont understand the fascination with finding a 'bargain' used car the reason they are a bargain is probably becuz they are shit - if you dont know how to fix it yourself then my advice is get a warranty or dont buy it at all.

      • netjock on 30/06/2021 - 23:52

        OP put a deposit down to some random scammer on the internet not a reputable business

        Pre purchase. Deposit as part of a contract. Way different than "paying for first dibs" if you are serious enter into an enforceable contract.

        Pre purchase with credit card. Deposit on a house. Enforceable contracts.

    • HeWhoKnows on 01/07/2021 - 19:31

      From a sellers point of view….
      someone paying a deposit based on organizing a "satisfactory inspection" is no guarantee they will proceed to a sale nor is an agreement made to pay a particular amount.
      In fact most buyers to to re-negotiate the price after the inspection even though the car has already been priced accordingly.
      And there might not be an agreement as to what constitutes a satisfactory inspection.
      After all the car is not new so it will have both wear and tear and minor faults that come with age.
      Unfortunately many car buyers are unrealistic as they think they are buying a car with no faults nor wear and tear

      That's why its always first in with the cash price takes the car away from the sellers point of view.
      Just as long as any "holding" deposit prepaid by another prospective buyer is refunded of course.

      • netjock on 01/07/2021 - 21:49

        Nobody puts money down so they can take the car for an inspection at a used car yard and used car yards are actual businesses.

        Your theory is like JB HiFi asking money for you to go inside to browse and play with all the goods on the shelf.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2021 - 15:19

    Do you have other contact details for the seller? Do you know whether they still reside at the same address?

  • holdenmg on 30/06/2021 - 15:30
    +1

    Thank you for your entry in the "You snooze, you lose" post of the week.

  • SF3 on 30/06/2021 - 15:31

    That car seller is a scammer.

    • HeWhoKnows on 01/07/2021 - 19:33

      We only heard OPs side of the story.
      How do we know OP didnt try to scam the seller
      Dont assume the poster is innocent of any wrong doing.
      You must always hear what the other party has to say before arriving at any conclusion
      'That is how our legal system works for good reason

      • Zachary on 07/08/2021 - 13:08

        How do we know OP didnt try to scam the seller

        Yes, the OP scammed the seller by giving him $500 for nothing.

  • burningrage on 30/06/2021 - 15:32
    +1

    I was going to say…. 18 months ago…..

    But in all seriousness, you should have asked for a refundable deposit written receipt (and signed) that clearly stated if the car is a lemon, this refundable deposit will be returned. You should have also obtained a copy of the seller's licence as well in case.

    Only then you shalt part with thou quids.

    If you had these, you can take the person to court citing the mechanic's report and the sign receipt and the seller will have no recourse against you.

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/07/2021 - 10:31
      -1

      The car being a lemon is only OPs "opinion"
      Nothing more

  • Muzeeb on 30/06/2021 - 15:43
    +1

    You should have only offerered an amount you were happy to lose.

    I would have offered $200 tops.

    Just make it a life lesson to pass onto your kids .

    • TilacVIP on 02/07/2021 - 19:04

      How about offer nothing and just did what most normal people would do & go take a look at the car at your earliest conveniece. If its sold, move on, and look for another.

      OP was never getting his money back by the odds of probability.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2021 - 15:46

    Well the good news for you is that you made sure your deposit was refundable, generally deposits, unless stipulated, are non-refundable and you say goodbye to your money - now of course this is also subject to terms and conditions, which you make is sound like the deposit was to view the car first and test it, which you did after that point you paid for what you got.

  • Almost Banned on 30/06/2021 - 15:48
    +2

    It is entirely up to you to decide whether it is worth pursuing, but i don't see any reason why you couldn't.
    If it is a refundable deposit, then its a refundable deposit. If you have emails confirming this, then you have an arguable case.
    Good luck.

  • Caped Baldy on 30/06/2021 - 16:15

    You should have sent a letter of demand..

  • pharkurnell on 30/06/2021 - 16:39

    You fell for the '… theres 50 others interested and on their way here now' line?

    Oh and 18mths ago??

  • Euphemistic on 30/06/2021 - 17:39

    Expensive lesson to learn. You’ve left it too late.

    There’s always another car without ‘strings’. Ie one you can inspect before sending money.

  • pegaxs on 30/06/2021 - 17:45
    +3

    Not wait 18 months next time, perhaps??

    Expensive lesson on why you don't give strangers "holding deposits". Write it off as experience and the fact that you dodged a bullet. $500 is better than $9,000 for a 17yo BWM shitbox

  • Blue Cat on 30/06/2021 - 18:01
    +1

    we would pay an upfront refundable deposit

    Oh, no no no no, oh no no…

    Oh god why are people so trusting of each other, especially in these times?!? This isn't the 70s or 80s Australia anymore, wake up!

    • Euphemistic on 30/06/2021 - 19:13
      +1

      Same number of dodgy people as back then, it’s just easier for them to get away with it because of the anonymity of the digital world.

  • Meho2026 on 30/06/2021 - 18:09

    Yep, take your Dad to VCAT, he stuffed up and lost your money. He would've had the best intentions but fell for the oldest trick in the book. He needs to take responsibility for that.

  • Peter Enis on 30/06/2021 - 21:13
    +2

    What did WP forums say when you asked?

    • pegaxs on 30/06/2021 - 22:38
      +3

      For anyone who is curious

      • netjock on 30/06/2021 - 23:54

        $500 on $15k car. What is it an old BMW?

        Friends with this guy

      • Zachary on 07/08/2021 - 13:11

        nice find… copy pasta for more help, I wonder if he's posted anywhere else…?

    • Muzeeb on 01/07/2021 - 06:51

      The replies are just as savage as here (to save reader some time)

      • pegaxs on 01/07/2021 - 13:36
        +2

        That's because most of the people there are the people from here…

        • Zachary on 07/08/2021 - 13:14

          I thought people left there to come here not to leave here to go there…

  • yellowfever on 01/07/2021 - 00:16
    +2

    In all the times I've sold and bought cars I've never heard of, offered or accepted a "refundable deposit".

    You may have made your own terms but that was the first mistake.
    A deposit for buying a car has traditionally been to secure yourself as the buyer and non refundable.

    When you start adding conditions to allow yourself to claw back your deposit, it becomes disputable because your own conditions has its own risks, which is the exact situation you have put yourself in.

    A deposit a is risk payment to allow a buyer to put themself in a secure position to purchase the car.

    You can try take it legal but high chance you will look like a clown.

    • Drj55 on 01/07/2021 - 08:27
      +1

      Agree with this. I've just 3 used cars (mine and 2 for in laws) and you deal with enough weirdos and crazies. Even if I'm a genuine seller last thing I'd want to do is deal with some potential nut job putting down a "refundable" deposit and then taking their sweet time mulling over the purchase. I make the car available for inspection. It's then first in with the cash and they drive off with the car.

      When you think about it a "refundable" deposit is a pure oxymoron. It gives the seller no protection at all and is just a waste of time.

  • 82norm on 01/07/2021 - 07:54

    Here’s another angle. Ask for a deposit to test drive the car. If your happy you pay the full amount less deposit. If not, return the deposit. Imagine if we changed to that methodology?

  • redvaldez on 01/07/2021 - 09:20
    +1

    I am happy to pay the fee to take it to VCAT to have it investigated, but I know the seller will push the ‘OP’s mechanic broke the transmission’ argument, so it's essentially his word vs the mechanics.

    Courts, including VCAT doesn't 'investigate' matters. They make a determination based on what is put before them. More specifically, you put your argument forward, including with any expert opinion (ie your mechanic's assessment of the matter), and assuming the other party replies, they put their rebuttal forward. The presiding Member then decides whether to accept your claim. This is obviously a very simplified overview of how VCAT works, but it's incumbent on you to put your best foot forward (so to speak). Maybe you would benefit from contacting a community legal centre for some brief free advice?

  • Out24q on 01/07/2021 - 09:22

    Probationary or Provisional?

  • OzHunterNSW on 01/07/2021 - 12:31

    Facebook…. first car…. promise on good will…. all spell RIPPED OFF.

    Look, chalk it down to experience. You are young and have many years ahead of you. This incident will only be one of many, believe me.

    Cut your losses. Sell it, buy another.

  • WhatWhoWhyUsername on 02/07/2021 - 11:51

    Consider yourself lucky that he didn't block you immediately after receiving the money and ran off with it.
    Take it as a lesson and never hand over/deposit money into their accounts without seeing the car first and why wait 18 months to post?

  • Zachary on 07/08/2021 - 13:15

    Why don't you just drive up to his house, smash up some things until he pays back your $500?

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