This was posted 2 years 8 months 11 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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Australian Made AMD P2 Respirator Masks (Box of 50) $111.60 Delivered (Was $149) @ Australian P2 Mask

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Australian Made AMD P2 Respirator Masks (Box of 50) $111.60 Delivered (Was $149) @ Australian P2 Mask
Go to Deal
AssociatedLAustralianP2Mask on 08/08/2021 - 12:25 australianp2mask.com.au (5317 clicks)
Last edited 22/08/2021 - 19:47 by 1 other user
OZZYB10

An OzBargain community member shared one of our deals here a little while ago that was meant to be on a local Facebook page that’s expired now. We’re glad to let you know that we’ve set up a new code just for OzBargain.

OZZYB10 at checkout will get you 10% off your total order and we have free shipping Australia wide.

AMD P2 Respirators are the first Australian made P2 Respirator with a 99.66% PFE and 99.92% BFE. AMD are the official sponsor of the Australian Olympics team that kicked ass in Tokyo, you may have seen these P2 masks around the last few weeks.

If you want to learn more about us our our masks feel free to read more here: https://www.australianp2mask.com.au/learn-more

If you have any queries or concerns please fire away in the comments and we’ll get back to you. Thanks for your support.

EDIT: Thanks everyone for the positive feedback and support so far! We've just noticed someone has reported this deal as expired - it isn't, it's still going strong til the end of the month. With more and more cases being reported everyday we hope you're all staying safe out there.

Health & Beauty Advanced Medical Devices Mask N95 Mask P2 Mask Respirator

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Australian P2 Mask
Australian P2 Mask

closed Comments

    • AssociatedAustralianP2Mask @ Australian P2 Mask on 08/08/2021 - 12:38
      +50

      On the contrary, they do protect against airborne viruses. With a Particle Filtration Efficiency of 99.66% that's exactly what they're designed to do. You're correct in saying that surgical masks are not adequate protection - not all masks are created equal but you can read more about these masks here: https://www.australianp2mask.com.au/learn-more

      And you can also see what ratings/compliance/tests AMD Med have done to get these masks registered with various governing bodies here: https://amdmed.com.au/

      Hope that helps!

        • Halc on 08/08/2021 - 12:53
          +35

          it's about risk reduction. if you want close to 100% protection you can spend a few grand on these https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/p/d/v000434962/ and make little children cry at the supermarket. otherwise, this is more than enough for most people

          • denzel on 08/08/2021 - 12:57
            +14

            @Halc: Little kids would love that

          • AssociatedAustralianP2Mask @ Australian P2 Mask on 08/08/2021 - 12:58
            +11

            @Halc: You'd scare me at the supermarket in that.

        • yomama on 08/08/2021 - 13:00
          +34

          When will people realise that wearing mask is mostly for preventing you spreading viruses to others?
          Wearing ANY mask regardless of its authenticity significantly reduces spread of droplets and aerosols. That is a fact.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:13
              +6

              @Deeseeee: So anything printed on a box is fact? Reminds me of the old put down about where a ref got his badge - from the back of a cereal packet. Try getting your head out Uranus and searching for scientific articles on masks

            • Jojo-Ma on 08/08/2021 - 15:19
              +7

              @Deeseeee: @Deeseeee Wearing a condom during copulation does not prevent pregnancy either. If there's other ways of reducing risks, I'm sure people would have an open mind to consider, and embrace.

              To fully reject the idea of wearing mask of any sort, is childish and immature, we all get the point you're trying to deliver.

          • Spets on 08/08/2021 - 14:19

            @yomama: Careful with your “facts”. Some masks make the virus spread more :

            https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7

            "Surprisingly, wearing an unwashed single layer t-shirt (U-SL-T) mask while breathing yielded a significant increase in measured particle emission rates compared to no mask, increasing to a median of 0.61 particles/s. The rates for some participants (F1 and F4) exceeded 1 particle/s, representing a 384% increase from the median no-mask value. Wearing a double-layer cotton t-shirt (U-DL-T) mask had no statistically significant effect on the particle emission rate, with comparable median and range to that observed with no mask."

            • SBOB on 08/08/2021 - 14:27
              +7

              @Spets: so dont wear a crappy home made mask made out of t shirt material
              simple

              and that report didnt cover the distance or velocity of particles travelled of mask v no mask, just the number of particles.
              It follows logic that forcing juicy spit particles through porous material would cause the break up of those particles and therefore increase their count/second, but it also reduced the median size of those particles, which was covered later in that report.
              There needs to be a follow up for you to go and google that includes velocity and carry distance of no mask v crappy home made t shirt mask.

        • Dr Fruit on 08/08/2021 - 13:01
          +5

          Why so cynical? Actually the government has agencies whose mandate is specifically for the health and protection of the public.

          Also, getting the vaccine is not playing Russian roulette with your health. On the other hand, not getting the vaccine gives you a way larger chance of dying or getting severe complications, which is probably more fitting as an analogy to Russian roulette.

          Not here to push vax on you, nor am I anti vax. It’s your choice. Just saying the numbers don’t lie.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:17
              +9

              @Deeseeee:

              It has been conclusively proven that covid vaccines don’t stay in the injection site but enter the bloodstream, breach the blood-brain barrier, and release trillions of spike proteins which we know cause clotting when they come in contact with the blood, through a variety of concurrent mechanisms. Not all blood clots are immediately fatal, but even a single one can be if it forms in a bad place.

              Really? So presumably you have good evidence for that rubbish - for example off a mask pack produced by the Trump organisation?

                • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:44
                  +8

                  @Deeseeee: Youth suicide kills more than covid19? Some people have bad reactions to vaccines (and medications)? People have died from rare blood clots from AZ? No-one will be surprised about any of that in the least because it's very public knowledge. ALL medication has risks and there are no 100% guarantees they won't have side effects - including death in a tiny number of cases. As has already been pointed out, Covid19 vaccinations have greatly reduced hospitalisation rates (and the flow on effects of pressures on health facilities - which includes waiting lists for non-covid related problems) and death rates.

                  • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 13:50
                    -5

                    @[Deactivated]: The qld health minister said the other day that covid deaths are low in Australia and that she doesn't want young people getting the vaccine because it has a high risk of blood clots that can kill you or cause serious injury. So why would anyone get a unknown vaccine that has a higher chance of killing you than a supposed virus that closely resembles the flu?

                    • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 14:11
                      +9

                      @Deeseeee: That was correct advice, based primarily on stats from the UK where AZ is/was the main vaccine and the virus was rampant in the community (thanks to Bozo Johnson and his mates). She did NOT say that there was a high risk of blood clots (there isn't), she repeated ATAGI advice that for certain age group the risk of death from AZ was greater than the risk of death from C19. That changes as the infection rates rise.

                      Ideally - if Morrison and his mates hadn't fkuced Pfizer around last year and complacently said vaccination wasn't a race - people under 60 would all have had access to Pfizer mRNA months ago. Pfizer itself has some side effects in a small number of people.

                      Corona virus is nothing like the flu, despite what your cereal pack may have told you. You might want to run an AV on your google, it seems to have an anti-knowledge virus.

                      • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 14:17
                        -1

                        @[Deactivated]: https://ibb.co/NydNQhs

                        "I don't want a 18 year old dying from a clotting illness where if they got covid probably wouldn't die"

                        Sounds like there is a high chance of clotting and that she was insinuating that. You people are bat shit crazy, it's like that episode of south Park where no one breaks character on that western excursion they go on despite all the evidence they're presented

                        • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 14:52
                          +16

                          @Deeseeee: No it doesn't sound like at all that unless you have poor knowledge, poor comprehension, poor hearing, a bad case of confirmation bias, and/or very low range IQ.

                          If your google wasn't on its death bed you COULD read about the thrombosis risk, but I guess that raises another problem for you. After all why would you believe anything reputable medical sources have to say about vaccine risks when you refuse to believe what is common scientific knowledge about masks? What a conundrum, especially when your brain is already full of antimatter (so to speak).

                          • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 14:59
                            -6

                            @[Deactivated]: "Refuse to believe common knowledge about masks" lmao and what would that be? No one has refuted anything I've said or posted all of your comments are butthurt Emotion reactions, some even further prove what I'm saying. I said surgical masks like the photo don't provide protection against viruses or covid which they don't
                            WARNING: This respirator helps protect against certain particulate
                            contaminants but does not eliminate exposure to or the risk of contracting
                            any disease or infection. Misuse may result in sickness or death. For
                            proper use, see supervisor, or User Instructions

                            That is the disclaimer for the n95 respirator so they won't save you either. I also posted links proving people had died due to clotting from the vaccines. I also explained how it does this

                            It has been conclusively proven that covid vaccines don’t stay in the injection site but enter the bloodstream, breach the blood-brain barrier, and release trillions of spike proteins which we know cause clotting when they come in contact with the blood, through a variety of concurrent mechanisms. Not all blood clots are immediately fatal, but even a single one can be if it forms in a bad place. At best, it’s playing Russian roulette with your health

                            You can keep grasping at straws but the longer this goes on it just becomes more clear that you're wrong and fighting the wrong battle. Have you stopped and asked yourself what I'm doing/saying? I'm looking out for the health of the people I'm not your enemy

                            • deva5610 on 08/08/2021 - 15:12
                              +9

                              @Deeseeee:

                              I'm looking out for the health of the people I'm not your enemy

                              Spouting the nonsense you are means you're the enemy of everyone.

                              • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 15:16
                                -5

                                @deva5610: That doesn't even make sense. Stop replying your incoherent dribble to me I don't care

                                Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 15:16 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
                                • deva5610 on 08/08/2021 - 15:20
                                  +3

                                  @Deeseeee:

                                  That doesn't even make sense.

                                  Yet again you're unable to comprehend a simple statement.

                                • lostincanberra on 08/08/2021 - 15:32
                                  +5

                                  @Deeseeee: Good to hear that you don't care. I'm all out of negs for today - thanks to your dribbling incoherent nonsense.

                                  • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 15:52
                                    -4

                                    @lostincanberra: Yeah I bet you are, thanks for letting everyone know what you're good for, downvoting without providing any argument. And even copying what I said to try and use it against me lol pathetic

                            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 19:36
                              +3

                              @Deeseeee:

                              "Refuse to believe common knowledge about masks" lmao and what would that be?

                              I don't like spoonfeeding fools, particularly indolent, blinkered ones, but since your google has a virus here's just one summary of a multitude of studies around the world on masks and covid-19:
                              https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
                              An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
                              And since you obviously won't read the detail in the link here's a pertinent extract from the study abstract:

                              The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission characteristics, source control, wearer protection, sociological considerations, and implementation considerations. A primary route of transmission of COVID-19 is via respiratory particles, and it is known to be transmissible from presymptomatic, paucisymptomatic, and asymptomatic individuals. Reducing disease spread requires two things: limiting contacts of infected individuals via physical distancing and other measures and reducing the transmission probability per contact. The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high.

                              Of course this is just one documented opinion but as you know (roflmao) there are plenty of others which have similar conclusions.

                              • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 19:51
                                -1

                                @[Deactivated]: "The science behind the use of masks" lol it's not rocket science to figure out that a measly face mask won't stop a virus hence the warning

                                • cute as duck on 08/08/2021 - 21:28
                                  +2

                                  @Deeseeee: What part of wearing masks to reduce transmission do you not understand? Nobody is saying masks will prevent 100% transmission of the virus. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

                                  So it is better to have no protection, instead of some protection?

                                  Some people are complete loons.

                                  • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 22:07
                                    -3

                                    @cute as duck: They clearly don't reduce transmission though do they, it's been over a year now and what the numbers are supposedly worse? It's almost as if the warning on the box was right and they don't provide any protection, who would've thought!

                                    "Nobody is saying masks will prevent the virus, to suggest otherwise is absurd" ahh do you realise where you're commenting lol that was/is the general consensus among everyone here or would've been if I didn't point out how retarded that is.

                                    "So it's better to have no protection than some" protection against what exactly? EUA for PCR testing is being withdrawn by the CDC because the PCR test can't differentiate between SARS and the Flu. Direct link to the CDC website
                                    https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert…
                                    If they can't distinguish between the flu or covid then how could anyone be deemed positive, and what for? How is it possible to detect a "new strain" if they can't even test for the original supposed virus? Of course adequate protection can be justified for necessary situations but mandating laws, lockdowns that are ruining people's lives along with forcing masks to be worn that have proven to have no affect against protection over a supposed virus that resembles the flu that has a survival rate of over 99 percent is unconstitutional and violates our human rights. Yeah some people are lunatics, you're displaying the traits of one

                                    • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 22:16
                                      +4

                                      @Deeseeee: Virtually all your unsubstantiated claims have already been dealt with. Are you invoking the Nazi Party's big lie propaganda technique or is your memory and comprehension shot completely?

                                      • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 22:26
                                        -1

                                        @[Deactivated]: Lol what, not one of you has refuted anything I've said so far, butthurt opinions don't count as proof. From the start I've said that cloth, surgical and n95 masks won't stop viruses as they both state as warnings and disclaimers on the box. And I said that the covid vaccines cause many side effects including blood clots and death which has been confirmed in many cases so much so the health minister of qld came out publicly and stated that young people shouldn't get the vaccine and risk dying from clotting or other side effects rather than contracting the virus (the flu) and surviving.

                                        It has been conclusively proven that covid vaccines don’t stay in the injection site but enter the bloodstream, breach the blood-brain barrier, and release trillions of spike proteins which we know cause clotting when they come in contact with the blood, through a variety of concurrent mechanisms. Not all blood clots are immediately fatal, but even a single one can be if it forms in a bad place. At best, it’s playing Russian roulette with your health

                                        • colinjames on 08/08/2021 - 22:58
                                          +2

                                          @Deeseeee: "It has been conclusively proven that covid vaccines don’t stay in the injection site but enter the bloodstream" (Deeseeee, 2021, personal communication)

                                          I'm intrigued what this conclusive proof of just this first claim is, can you find it and post it please.

                                        • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2021 - 00:41
                                          +3

                                          @Deeseeee:

                                          Lol what, not one of you has refuted anything I've said so far, butthurt opinions don't count as proof.

                                          So let's again put your repeated claims under the spotlight and see if they deserve to be buried forever or not. I'll be repeating what you've already been told by many commenters but have so far missed or ignored.

                                          From the start I've said that cloth, surgical and n95 masks won't stop viruses as they both state as warnings and disclaimers on the box.

                                          Even assuming you've understood the warnings properly (and we've already established you don't understand the difference between elimination and limitation/mitigation), warnings on products aren't scientific proof of anything - although in some cases they do confirm that stupidity is often an acquired trait. I've given you links to numerous studies on the efficacy of masks in reducing virus transmission. Have you blocked them all thinking they might infect your brain with reality or aren’t you interested in scientifically rigorous (if not yet set in stone) information?

                                          And I said that the covid vaccines cause many side effects including blood clots and death which has been confirmed in many cases so much so the health minister of qld came out publicly and stated that young people shouldn't get the vaccine and risk dying from clotting or other side effects rather than contracting the virus (the flu) and surviving.

                                          And as I said before it seems odd that you believe what the Qld Chief Health Officer (not the Minister) said about AZ vaccine thrombosis risks to younger people but completely ignore everything else she and other experts have said about masks. If you read more widely you'd know she was right on both counts.

                                          Yes most of us know that AZ causes thrombosis (in about 0.002% of people vaccinated) and that around 3% of those people die (in case you're interested, others have ongoing issues and some recover quite well). That's sad and would probably be unacceptable in normal circumstances but when C19 is raging through a community circumstances are anything but normal. People under 60 should seriously weigh the relative risks up when considering AZ.
                                          https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021…
                                          Pfizer would be my choice but it also has complications such as heart inflammation. From my limited reading (I browse from time to time and certainly don’t claim to be up to date) there have been no clear links to fatalities in healthy young people from Pfizer (Norway has reported a possible link of Pfizer BioNTech vaccine to death in some frail nursing home patients, although this has yet to be verified). This doesn't mean that no such events have occurred, simply that cause and effect haven't been established. Only a guess, but it seems likely to me that other deaths will eventually be linked directly or indirectly to mRNA vaccines.

                                          At the risk of adding fuel to your fire here's what the CDC says about known adverse reactions: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad…. The UK link I provided you previously has similar adverse reaction information based on their own data.

                                          the virus (the flu)

                                          As much as you'd like to believe it, Covid-19 (and other similar corona viruses - SARS, MERS) is not flu as I’ve already told you, although they share many similarities. Covid-19 is far more infectious and has killed far more than influenzas do normally worldwide (flu 389,000 on average per year, C19 estimated at about 8 times that). You can find explanations of the similarities and differences on hundreds of websites. Here’s just a couple:
                                          https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/no-covid-19-is-not-t…
                                          https://www.thelancet.com/article/S2213-2600(20)30527-0/fulltext

                                          It has been conclusively proven that covid vaccines don’t stay in the injection site but enter the bloodstream, breach the blood-brain barrier, and release trillions of spike proteins which we know cause clotting when they come in contact with the blood, through a variety of concurrent mechanisms.

                                          Interesting, since vaccines don’t work that way from what I’ve read although no doubt you have links from credible sources to confirm your claims? I’ll check back tomorrow but I suspect the dog will have eaten your homework yet again. It’s odd that neither the USA or UK data centres have reported such things as blood brain barrier issues with vaccines (unless I've missed them, in which case you should easily find them), whereas the C19 virus itself is almost certainly entering the brain and setting off undesirable reactions – reason enough to take preventative measures (like wearing masks and getting vaccinated if possible) I’d have thought.
                                          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201217154046.h…

                                          There are detailed explanations of how each different vaccine works but these seem decent summaries for Pfizer https://theconversation.com/how-mrna-vaccines-from-pfizer-an…
                                          https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/pfizer-biont…
                                          and AZ:
                                          https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/oxford-astra…

                                          There are also plenty of simple and not so simple animated videos of how C19 vaccines works, eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRo-yz1VQ8

                                          Hope this helps clear your fog. Confidence level, 0-5%.

                                          • cute as duck on 09/08/2021 - 09:20
                                            +3

                                            @[Deactivated]: This person has now been thankfully placed in the penalty box so it slows down the rate of misinformation.

                                          • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2021 - 13:20

                                            @[Deactivated]: Did some further reading on thrombosis. This is probably what he was referring to, albeit with a lot of pseudo medical bs in his words to make the comment sound more plausible. If it was then he's basically referring to the thrombosis issue twice without knowing. The stats mentioned publicly lump all forms of thrombosis into that single category, although specialists undoubtedly sub-categorise every case.

                                            [Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis after AstraZeneca vaccination](https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/64…)
                                            Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) refers to the presence of a blood clot in the dural venous sinuses, which drain blood from the brain. Symptoms may include: headache, abnormal vision, any of the symptoms of stroke, such as weakness of the face and limbs on one side of the body and seizures.(4)

                                            CVST also occurs "naturally": https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas…

                                    • cute as duck on 09/08/2021 - 09:15
                                      +1

                                      @Deeseeee: There is no point in having any dialogue with you. You remind me of another person who thinks the way you are, and it makes me incredibly sad and worried for their health.

                                      Thankfully, the mods have placed you in the penalty box so you can stop spreading misinformation on OzBargain. That I would argue is even more effective in battling COVID-19, than mask wearing.

                                • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2021 - 01:19
                                  +1

                                  @Deeseeee: Remind us please - how many years of relevant study and experience have led you to that conclusion?

                    • sanmigueelbeer on 08/08/2021 - 14:25
                      +8

                      @Deeseeee:

                      she doesn't want young people getting the vaccine because it has a high risk of blood clots that can kill you or cause serious injury.

                      Do you have any objections to the Pfizer vaccine?

                      If I remembered correctly, Dr Young adviced young people not to get AZ. I do not believe she actually recommended people "not to get vaccinated". Dr Young also made this comment when the Federal Government only sourced AZ. Back then, Pfizer vaccines were not yet available in Australia.

                      As of 27 May 2021, 2.1 million AZ doses have been administered with 24 reported TTS cases. That is one case per every 88,000 administered AZ shot.

                      Have a look at 07 August 2021 NSW press conference:
                      * 345 cases
                      * 56 of those are in ICU
                      * 25 of those in ICU are now in ventilators
                      * 51 of those in ICU were not vaccinated

                      What is your reason why you're not lining up to get Pfizer?

                      We in Australia in a very "lucky country". We have, at our feet, vaccines our government is spending to give to everyone for free. All anyone can do is roll up our sleeves and get jab. In the meantime, our neighbors, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand are struggling to contain the outbreak even when the infections are spreading among fully "vaccinated" people with Sinovac. Indonesia, for example, is so desperate they are willing to buy Australia's "unwanted" AZ stocks.

                      And finally, two months ago, this is what a Goulburn (NSW) residents told ABC (in verbatim) when a VIC COVID-19 (Delta) positive family visited the town: I did not get vaccinated because I was worried about the side-effects. In hindsight, I am now regretting not getting vaccinated at all.

                      Stay safe, everyone.

                      PS: My wife got her 2nd AZ shot. I am about to get my 2nd shot in the next few weeks. Her siblings and their spouses also got AZ. We are still alive.

                • Flenser on 08/08/2021 - 15:35
                  +3

                  @Deeseeee: Today there are over 200 million cases of Covid reported worldwide worldwide and just under 4.3 million deaths reported.

                  You and channel 9 are reporting that there have been some death associated with getting the vaccine of people that did not catch Covid.

                  OK, these reports are probably true, but trying to convince people that the vaccine is more dangerous that the virus based on just 12 deaths due to the vaccine reported worldwide is just bad science.

                • cerealJay on 10/08/2021 - 02:10
                  -1

                  @Deeseeee: I notice you got downvoted less with this post than others, because you went to some trouble to assemble that list, thanks! I've given you an upvote.

                  That guy who lost his 25yo son just after pestering him to get vaccinated. Wow. Apparently his son had no known existing health problems either according to a later post by the dad. His son died in his sleep 2 days after his second shot. It was the J&J vaccine.

                  • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2021 - 09:44
                    +3

                    @cerealJay: Funny that he didn't list any of the millions of stories of people who died from coivd19 though eh? Or that he didn't say that covid-19 has also caused deaths from thrombosis? Or the numbers who have been saved from death and hospitalisation by less-than perfect vaccines (plenty of public data already on that)?

                    It's appalling and extremely sad that anyone should die from or be seriously affected by what is being touted by government and some doctors as a silver bullet but when the alternative is far worse there's little choice for many. And that's yet another reason why we should all try to comply with public health orders by staying isolated when sick, getting tested, wearing masks, etc. 18 months in and we still have sociopathic and self-obsessed aholes refusing to follow even the simplest guidleines.

                    • cerealJay on 10/08/2021 - 14:25
                      -1

                      @[Deactivated]: The authorities and press conferences are over-compensating for what they perceive as "wrongful" hesitancy. Calling it hesitancy is not accurate in many cases. A lot of people are not hesitating, they are declining.

                      They're flooding the airwaves with a stuck-record message. This tactic can't be disguised as anything other than saturation. The kind normally found between a parent and child unwilling to complete chores.

                      I didn't click on his other posts, I'm just commenting on that list, which does seem legit. Check out these tweets from the father (@notdeadyet5000) who lost his son:

                      "It seems easy to explain away vax deaths as breaking a few eggs to make an omelette until your 25 year-old dies in his sleep 4 days after his second jab." 6:28 AM · Jun 29, 2021·Twitter for iPad

                      and

                      "I was actually a big vax advocate. Then my son died. We haven’t gotten autopsy report back yet, but he had no known health problems."
                      8:01 AM · Jun 29, 2021·Twitter for iPad

                      BTW, I'm all for masks indoors, social distancing, better ventilation, more outdoor spaces, better hygiene and incentives where they're needed. I am not for punishment, penalties, threats, division, and shaming those who don't get vaccinated. If they really want people vaccinated, pay them $1000 no less to get two jabs. After all, Kevin Rudd's government deposited $900 in our bank accounts that time for absolutely no reason but "stimulus". Do it again. Easy way to get vaccine rates up AND stimulate economy.

                      • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2021 - 15:04

                        @cerealJay: You appear to have missed the point entirely, much like the bloke you upvoted. And that is for every sad story about vaccination deaths and illnesses there are thousands of worse tales about covid-19 deaths and illnesses. Or to use Deeseee's own ludicrous comparison - the number of deaths/complications from vaccines is a drop in the ocean compared to youth suicide.

                        There are no easy ways out of this but slapping huge fines on aholes like this (reportedly a covid skeptic) might help shake a few out of their bubbles. His self-centred and anti-social action has cost tens of thousand their freedom, not to mention all the obvious negative flow on effects to businesses and inconvenience to those he interacted with.

                        Btw the "Rudd" stimulus was recommended by Treasury and the RBA, and the vast majority of analysis of it was that it kept this country out of recession, helped keep business going and people employed (ergo, it limited what might have been massive social security payments) even as most other comparable countries went the other way. They are just a few of your "no reasons". Stimulus is itself a reason, as anyone familiar with national finances should know.

                        • SBOB on 10/08/2021 - 16:48

                          @[Deactivated]:

                          There are no easy ways out of this but slapping huge fines on aholes like this (reportedly a covid skeptic)

                          exactly, every covid skeptic is a skeptic till they are too ill to breath and need an ambulance and medical attention.
                          Then they all for science, research, medicine and government assistance.

                          absolutely hypocritical

                        • cerealJay on 10/08/2021 - 17:45
                          -1

                          @[Deactivated]: First of all, I said "no reason other than stimulus". So my comment is fine as is. You attempted to twist my words into "no reason at all" for the Rudd era payment. Obviously Covid has brought it's own economic hardship for the world, so it makes perfect sense to combine a stimulus payment with incentive. There is nothing wrong with that idea at all.

                          Secondly, perhaps you could take your own advice and include alongside your "tales about covid-19 deaths and illnesses" the many more accounts of people getting covid, having no or mild symptoms and then making a full recovery. Which is most people who get covid.

                          • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2021 - 20:36
                            +1

                            @cerealJay:

                            Secondly, perhaps you could take your own advice and include alongside your "tales about covid-19 deaths and illnesses" the many more accounts of people getting covid, having no or mild symptoms and then making a full recovery. Which is most people who get covid.

                            As they say in the classics - no sh!t sherlock. I and most people in this country understand the numbers - and the direct statistical relationship between infections, serious illness, and death from covid. The numbers for most countries have been available for over a year and are regularly updated. When boiled down, the more infections the higher the number of deaths in most countries, even those with robust health systems. That was PRIOR to vaccine development and rollout.

                            As you know vaccination lowers the risk of contracting the disease and its severity, but more importantly it drastically lowers the risk of hospitalisation and death. Concentrating on the fact that most unvaccinated people in Australia will not be seriously affected by a covid illness gives rise to complacency in demographics who think they'll be safe, and the adoption of a law-of-the-jungle I'm all right jack attitude. In turn that leads to the same people ignoring mask, sanitization, isolation and public gathering rules aimed at protecting everyone in the community. Even ignoring the humanitarian aspect, those rules make good sense when you have to manage a public health system. What you seem to be suggesting glosses over the effects of mass infection on health workers and health systems, and of course the follow on with jobs, businesses, and economies.

                            All that said it wasn't me trying to gild the lily over risks and dangers, as you'll see if you read the thread comments. I was simply pointing out the reality of the "flu" pandemic to a skeptic whose whole focus was on the risks of vaccination - while completely ignoring all the data, science and the medical advice wrt mask efficacy and mortality from the "flu".

                            • cerealJay on 10/08/2021 - 22:34
                              -1

                              @[Deactivated]:

                              complacency

                              Can work the other way too. Vaccinated people may be inclined to rip off their masks in celebration, skip down the street hand in hand, singing, hugging and kissing their family. Because they were told the "vaccine is the only way out".

                              Look, I don't wish to enter into a binary argument about this still unfolding pandemic delta edition. But you'd do well to apply the same projection or guessing about what might give rise to what, for the populations who receive the vaccine. This isn't a team sport with one side vs another. Please don't imply that a vaccinated person holds some special power or bullet proof status relative to virus transmission.

                              In my opinion it was a mistake to start going after young people with the vaccine. In my opinion, curfews were never a good idea, as it forced more people to shop in a confined window of time before 7pm, increasing density. Not to mention the core stress of having a curfew.

                              Notice how we don't have curfews anymore? Back when we had curfews here in Melbourne, I voiced opposition to the idea, and was met with arguments amounting to "shutup and comply with the health orders". But it's perfectly fine to disagree with health orders.

                              Remember in the beginning when Aust health chiefs were advising not to wear masks? People were like "um, maybe we should wear masks like they are overseas" but repeatedly they said "no, we don't need masks". I recall arguing about that online too, as it was clear this virus was airborne. And now.. I'm voicing opposition to overreaching compliance tactics at play, among other things. Seeing French police approach people at cafes demanding to see "their papers" is of serious concern. It's a foot in the door, and nobody should be asleep at the wheel, or asleep in the back seat of the apathetic masses bus.

                              • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2021 - 09:37
                                +2

                                @cerealJay: Three comments on this deal and it's obvious you have an "inventive" mind which often strays into straw man territory.

                                Please don't imply that a vaccinated person holds some special power or bullet proof status relative to virus transmission.

                                I didn't say or even suggest that vaccination is a panacea, in fact if you bothered to read my comments (that phrase again) you'd know I've criticised certain people for implying that very thing. "We're not safe till we're all safe" familiar to you? That's not a huge problem for those who are informed and understand that vaccination does NOT guarantee that you won't get covid-19, that you can't transmit it, that you can't get extremely ill or die from the disease post vaccination however for those who haven't done their own research it gives/may give a huge and false sense of security.

                                Remember in the beginning when Aust health chiefs were advising not to wear masks?

                                A statement loaded with insinuation, unintended or otherwise, but yes I remember when masks were not considered a critical part of transmission. That was based on knowledge and science from the SARS, MERS outbreaks, and lab experiments with aerosol - which was not considered a significant transmissive agent by many experts, including some Australian medical scientists, early on. Like a lot of things during this pandemic that changed quite quickly as anecdotal evidence emerged from countries like Taiwan - which had mass mask compliance. That's how science works, and thankfully our authorities didn't ignore the new evidence and advice.

                                Now to your speculation and expansion of the discussion on this deal.

                                you'd do well to apply the same projection or guessing about what might give rise to what, for the populations who receive the vaccine.

                                To bring you back to reality yet again - the discussion here was not about what happens post mass-vaccination (or when "herd immunity" is magically reached for that matter - unlike many diseases covid-19 appears to not be following the conventional script), it was about known facts, and misrepresentation/misuse/ignorance of readily available REPUTABLE information.

                                If you want to get into speculation - as you have done with this doozie: "curfews were never a good idea, as it forced more people to shop in a confined window of time before 7pm, increasing density", feel free to start a separate discussion. I'll be here to critique your errors and hyperbole - such as your very last sentence, which finally gives us a good window into your mindset. This was the reality in my area and plenty of others from what I saw on television: shops everywhere encouraged masks and social distancing, they limited numbers in their premises, they put up shields and signs, marked distance lines on floors, had constant messaging over their PAs, and provided hand sanitizer. In store I noticed people social distancing and going out of their way to be "kinder". The notion that business as usual would have led to better outcomes is arrant nonsense - as the overseas experiences demonstrate.

                                Despite your opinion on "curfews" the data suggests strongly that pre-vaccination lockdowns worked to keep the pressure off our hospitals and health workers and keep our death rate far below worldwide averages. Every experience overseas says that would not have happened if covid-19 was raging through the coummunity, unless you believe in the myth that Aussies are somehow different of course.

                                Whether the personal and economic cost of lockdowns outweighed the benefit is a debate which will no doubt be had over coming years as medical data and knowledge and lessons and experiences in managing the pandemic across the globe are analysed and reviewed. Certainly many of Morrison's restrictions on incoming and now even outgoing Australian expats, why Indians were banned from entering but others from delta-riven "white" countries not, and how and why exemptions were given to people like "celebrities" and happy clappers (Houston), needs to be put under the spotlight.

                              • sanmigueelbeer on 11/08/2021 - 17:41
                                +2

                                @cerealJay:

                                But it's perfectly fine to disagree with health orders.

                                No, it is not "fine" to disagree with health orders.

                                Take Zoran Radovanovic, from NSW, as an example. When he left Sydney for Byron Bay, he was COVID-19 positive. Instead of following NSW Health orders, he and his two teenage children went to Byron Bay, NSW on a pretense that he was going to look at some "real estate".

                                • He is a COVID-19 skeptic
                                • He was not wearing a mask
                                • They were not signing in (QR code) to all the venues he and his children visited.

                                Now, all those business has to shut down and do a deep clean. Those deep clean do not come cheap, by the way. They cost north of $3000. Each staff member of each business has to be isolated for, a minimum, of seven days. Seven days means no-work-no-pay in a lot of cases.

                                NOTE:
                                It has emerged Mr Radovanovic has historical convictions for burglary, theft, criminal damage, drug and forgery offences – a record that was scrutinised when he successfully appealed a federal government attempt to cancel his visa and deport him to Serbia.

                                • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2021 - 18:34

                                  @sanmigueelbeer: I wonder if the govt will try again and if Administrative Appeals Tribunal deputy president B.M. Forrest would again exercise his discretion to allow him to stay in Australia.

                                  https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-man-who-travelled…

                                  • sanmigueelbeer on 11/08/2021 - 18:51

                                    @[Deactivated]: Zoran Radovanovic has a strong case not to get deported. He's got two kids who were born here and his wife is probably Australian citizen.

                                    Zoran will not be deported and I highly doubt he will ever see the inside of a jail.

                                    • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2021 - 19:12
                                      +1

                                      @sanmigueelbeer: Although given B.M. Forrest said he was “not satisfied that [Mr Radovanovic] passes the character test”, surely he'd be certain Radovanovic now doesn't, hence is a candidate for deportation. His kids would likely be adults so that wouldn't be a significant factor.

                                      • sanmigueelbeer on 16/08/2021 - 09:58
                                        +1

                                        @[Deactivated]: Zoran Radovanovic's son, Kristian, has been charged "with breaching public health orders after allegedly travelling from Sydney to Byron Bay with his father." LINK

                                        Like father, like son.

                                        • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2021 - 12:55

                                          @sanmigueelbeer: Yes, saw that. Unfortunately the sanction is little more than a slap on the wrist. What needs to happen is for a business to sue where a breach has been particularly egregious (like this one for eg). Unfortunately afaik it's impossible to prove beyond all doubt that an outbreak came from a particular source. On the other hand it's easy enough to show that a lockdown occurred as a result of their irresponsible actions. Some businesses themselves have been caught deliberately ignoring health orders.

                                • cerealJay on 11/08/2021 - 22:29
                                  -3

                                  @sanmigueelbeer:

                                  No, it is not "fine" to disagree with health orders.

                                  Yes, it really is. I made no mention of ALL rules being fine to break, but you've had a good go at painting me as the big bad rule breaker with your "what about" example!

                                  They ordered a curfew in Victoria last year. I disagreed with it. Perfectly fine to disagree with the curfew. Even disobeying the curfew was perfectly fine. It was a dumb idea in the first place, and now we don't have curfews. Try thinking for yourself for once.

                                  Not checking in to the petrol station when you're there for 2 seconds: perfectly fine. We can choose instead to practice good hygiene, wear mask, and manually check the exposure sites ourselves. No need for Uncle Gov to track your every move. If you feel symptoms, you could then make your own decision to get tested and phone the number to submit your recent locations.

                                  The idea of using a common pen on the counter to write your name for those without a phone is BAD. That increases the time people are there, and obviously the pen and paper become a risky transmission surface. It's another dumb idea worth disagreeing with. Pen and paper check-in…. LOL, so irresponsible. I wonder what the stats are on infection from touching the check-in pen!

                                  When Uncle Gov orders you to check in, it means they don't trust you to check the exposure sites yourself. I reject that basis for tracking the movements of everyone everywhere. I don't want to encourage a foot in the door for oppressive Orwellian society. I will never check in anywhere. If you don't check in, make sure you have the exposure sites website bookmarked and visit it regularly. It amounts to the SAME thing. Any questions?

                                  • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2021 - 10:12
                                    +1

                                    @cerealJay: So much ignorance and nonsense it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say you need to learn what public health rules mean legally, why they're put in force in particular areas, and better still what they actually are at various times.

                                    Not checking in to the petrol station when you're there for 2 seconds: perfectly fine.

                                    Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Possibly worse than not checking in during periods of lockdown/high transmission is spreading false information. The rule of thumb for a responsible adult is simple - if you don't know what you're talking about, don't proffer ignorant advice to an audience which may include equally ignorant readers. Check in is sometimes recommended (optional), sometimes it's ordered (compulsory). Ditto for masks. Neither is an onerous task for MOST people and authorities are usually very forgiving, depending on the severity of the infringement. And, despite your hyperbole it's extremely rare that police/big brother will invite you down to the local lockup for failing to comply.

                                    When Uncle Gov orders you to check in, it means they don't trust you to check the exposure sites yourself.

                                    Means nothing of the sort. Whether YOU reject tracking is completely irrelevant. The order is put in place for protection of the public - including sociopaths and "freedom junkies" - who hypocritically expect to be able to use everything society offers, including protection of the law, access to health services, etc. Not you though. I'm sure you live self-sufficiently off grid and would never consider partaking of the many public systems or facilities an ordered society brings.

                                    And to ease your mind, I'm sure you're a very important person however I doubt very much that anyone is tracking your movements

                                    I don't want to encourage a foot in the door for oppressive Orwellian society.

                                    The vast majority of people agree, however they don't indulge in your hyperbole, fantasy or social irresponsibility. They also better appreciate that selfish individual acts can quickly lead to massive implications for others during a pandemic.

                                    Living in a society comes with responsibilities, for obvious reasons. You aren't free to pick and choose which rules you'll observe and which you won't. However you are free to protest in various ways and of course do something positive like write letters to papers, to your elected members, and put your vote elsewhere if you don't like govt "oppression". I'll bet my house that you haven't written to your federal Liberal members about metadata retention or any other "national security legislation" which removes basic democratic rights (usually for good reason, although we'll never know when it goes awry because "victims" can't talk about it).

                                    If you want an insight into how the bloated, secretive and incompetent Defence works for example, I recommend you read "Failures of Command" by Hugh Poate. A real opener into the culture and "integrity" from the top through many levels of the officer ranks - should get your freedom hackles up and ironically at the same time demonstrate just how cossetted and lucky we are.

                                    • cerealJay on 12/08/2021 - 15:36
                                      -1

                                      @[Deactivated]:

                                      you need to learn…

                                      The rule of thumb for a responsible adult is simple…

                                      Living in a society comes with responsibilities…

                                      You need to learn how to participate in a discussion without sounding like a grumpy man parroting the fine print in terms and conditions.

                                      you are free to protest in various ways…… write letters to papers

                                      Sounds good, I'll dust off my typewriter and get my protest on.

                                      There's a long history of protesting that goes beyond the acts and laws in place, from standing in front of bulldozers, trespass and many other forms of protest that might otherwise rattle the crusty old pen and paper men, or push beyond the written regulations. That doesn't need to mean anarchy or reckless destruction or vandalism, but it might mean holding a rally without a permit, or placing a sign where no such permission has been granted, or any number of other protest actions.

                                      Sounds like you live in a box. Doesn't sound much different to prison with a big screen TV. Not everyone thinks or lives as you do. Not everyone who disagrees with you is "wrong" or ignorant by default. No doubt you strut around condemning and waving your finger at anything that doesn't tick your boxes. That's the impression I get from your essay.

                                      ignorant readers

                                      You don't get to label ideas or opinions you don't like as "ignorant". Your rambling repetition suggests you're rattled. Now you're lashing out, attempting to frame my position as unsound, morally corrupt, irresponsible.

                                      On the contrary, I've presented a reasoned argument, and I would suggest that challenging specific rules and laws that don't sit well is your DUTY as a responsible adult. This doesn't mean disobeying everything and running riot, but it may mean not submitting to, agreeing to, or abiding by every kick up the rear that your nightly news press conference barks at you on a regular basis.

                                      The order is put in place for protection of the public

                                      Repeating already well understood reasons for orders, does nothing to add to this debate, or counter my reasoned arguments. It does nothing to justify the order's legitimacy, effectiveness, stability, or suitability for the general public either in short or long term. You sound like a talking head when you repeat generic statements like "the laws are there to protect you" and "we're all in this together" and "think of the children" etc etc.

                                      That's why everyone is currently debating the orders, lockdowns and related specifics. As you may recall they have already told us there's "no playbook". There is no long term data to draw from, the rules and strategies change often, and ABSOLUTELY involve political motives, questionable methods relative to specific groups, and highly dubious precedents for future laws.

                                      Whether that is something you care about and are willing to act on is your choice as a human on this planet - which is what you are first. Second, you are the law-abiding tax-payer. It sounds to me like your foundation level existence is firstly as tax-paying box ticker, which is your existential choice. But you don't get to impose your view on others. You can however, rabbit the terms and conditions and generic official statements as if they were gospel, but that won't get you far with me, or anyone else educated enough to see through the facade.

                                      • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2021 - 22:46
                                        +1

                                        @cerealJay:

                                        You need to learn how to participate in a discussion without sounding like a grumpy man parroting the fine print in terms and conditions.

                                        That "fine print" is public information critical to health management and the control of a highly infectious disease which has maimed and killed millions. As the road safety ad so succinctly asked, how many is an acceptable number to you personally? Or to put it more precisely - how many of your family, friends and the general public are you prepared to sacrifice because you think society is in danger of being controlled and manipulated by some amorphous authoritarian group of your imagination?

                                        Not everyone thinks or lives as you do.

                                        As I said in a previous reply to you - no sh!t sherlock. At least two on this thread I'd put firmly in that category. Thankfully most of the rest of us have arrived at the conclusion that we're all in this pandemic together and that needs to be foremost in our considerations despite the many inconveniences and personal costs.

                                        Not everyone who disagrees with you is "wrong" or ignorant by default.

                                        I agree completely. On the other hand there are people whose comments are obviously ignorant of fact, science and law, not to mention ignorant of the social contract we all enter into by attempting to live harmoniously together while sharing resources, laws, systems, infrastructure, expertise etc, which in turn helps us to function pretty successfully as an ordered and decent society. That's pretty damned important - in fact I'd say critical - to me and my family and friends, how about you and yours?

                                        Now you're lashing out, attempting to frame my position as unsound, morally corrupt, irresponsible.

                                        No need for me to frame your "position" as irresponsible, you've done that perfectly well yourself. A few simple questions for you. (1) If I were to infect you with a disease or put your family and friends at risk or exhort others to disobey laws because it suited me, or because I didn't give a fig, or because I had some vague notion that big brother was taking over, would that be reasonable? (2) If you contract covid-19 as a result of your, or those of your mindset's actions, and need the assistance of public health resources, will you use them? (3) Have you or will you accept payments directly or indirectly from taxpayer funds - taxpayers who on the whole have done the right thing when asked in order to reduce the impact of covid-19 on both our health systems and our economies? (4) A counterpart to the question at the top of this comment: If we were all to adopt your 'selective resistance' approach during this pandemic and ignored public health orders, do you think Australia would have ended up with death and hospitalisation numbers similar to comparable countries overseas? If not why would we be the exception?

                                        It sounds to me like your foundation level existence is firstly as tax-paying box ticker, which is your existential choice.

                                        Your assumptions, like your indifference to laws aimed at protecting the greater good during what is obviously a national and international crisis, couldn't be further from reason and reality. Nothing wrong imo with a bit of civil disobedience when govts overreach for no valid reason, ignore their citizens, attempt to impose narrow, outdated and anti-personal religious views, or act unconscionably (and more often refuse to act - eg climate change in this country) or in the interests of vested groups at the expense of the common wealth (ie the people).

                                        As a "law abiding taxpayer" living in a relatively advanced, democratic and peaceful society I do have expectations of others around me but it's primarily as an Australian and a human being that I expect authorities to protect me, my family and others - esp the more vulnerable among us - from irresponsible idiots who think they know better, that their freedoms/ beliefs/interests should come first and who are willing to put the lives of people at risk to further those interests.

                                        • cerealJay on 13/08/2021 - 20:03
                                          -2

                                          @[Deactivated]:

                                          Your assumptions, like your indifference to laws…

                                          There you go again, expanding my objection to specific rules, to the more sensational and exasperated claim that I'm "anti-laws" and somehow an enemy of the state and a danger to your family.

                                          Further more, "indifferent" is not the appropriate word to use for someone who has detailed and reasoned criticism for avoidance of specific measures. If I were "indifferent" I would be shrugging and saying "too hard" then continue playing video games.

                                          Last year I voiced complaints about curfews, and the now widely abandoned Covidsafe app. Many people including colleagues and others in the technology industry I work in, were scratching their heads about the planned covidSafe app. The idea was never going to work. Even modern phones always on and connected "spin down" when in your bag, conserving battery and becoming ineffective bluetooth transmitters when in that state. That was just one aspect of the flawed app, there were numerous others, and it was a waste of time and money.

                                          Your attempt at making sarcastic put-downs about "big brother" (a term I never use), is sad. If you don't know what you're talking about, then kindly refrain from entering the discussion about "big brother". Or read up about the current concerns, of which there are numerous and the link just one example. Mums and Dads and everyday people are not exposed to most of the technology-related overreach currently inching its way deeper into our lives and deeper into lawmaker's portfolios because who would ever argue with "think of the children".

                                          If I were to infect you with a disease…

                                          I would firstly find out how that happened. Was it because your vaccinated status made you believe you were not a risk to others? You stopped wearing a mask? Didn't wash your hands then picked up the check-in pen when your phone battery died? And for some reason I also dropped my guard and failed to wash my hands, or protect myself with basic measures? I'm diligent with hygiene and social distance, so you must have sneezed directly in my masked face. You infected me because you didn't isolate after symptoms. You dropped the ball. Thanks a lot. Now hang your head in shame.

                                          If you contract covid-19 as a result of your…

                                          Of my what? Not checking in? Don't be daft. Checking in has no direct relationship with avoiding the virus. It's a people-tracking and tracing tool for those who don't want to manage self-isolating or monitoring exposure sites themselves. Those people who want the convenience of contact tracing, by all means, check in for the rest of your life. Check in to use the footpath if you wish, the QR codes may start appearing on street poles. Dan Andrews today mentioned the possibility of mandatory door to door testing in suburbs. "we are not afraid to do what's unpopular". But where's the self-testing kits? Oh no.. we can't have those because Uncle Gov won't see the results and log your rear end into the database. I could write more, but what's the point.

                                          • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2021 - 22:43
                                            +1

                                            @cerealJay:

                                            Further more [sic], "indifferent" is not the appropriate word to use for someone who has detailed and reasoned criticism for avoidance of specific measures. If I were "indifferent" I would be shrugging and saying "too hard" then continue playing video games.

                                            Thanks for the English lesson, unfortunately you got that wrong also. Please make an effort to learn the language even if you can't bring yourself to observe and respect simple and undemanding rules during a pandemic:
                                            indifference: noun
                                            1. lack of interest, concern, or sympathy.

                                            But back to the topic…..

                                            I don't want to encourage a foot in the door for oppressive Orwellian society. I will never check in anywhere.

                                            They ordered a curfew in Victoria last year. I disagreed with it. Perfectly fine to disagree with the curfew. Even disobeying the curfew was perfectly fine.

                                            Your attempt at making sarcastic put-downs about "big brother" (a term I never use), is sad. **If you don't know what you're talking about, then kindly refrain from entering the discussion about "big brother". **

                                            My apologies. Since you conjured up some fantastic Orwellian society which would apparently arise out of contact tracing (assuming we grudgingly co-operate with public health orders) I assumed you at least knew a little bit about the author's works, and how the term you used came into common usage. Big Brother was a major character in Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.

                                            The basic premise of my questions was simple enough. You believe that you should be free to choose what parts of public health orders you will observe. By extension you would presumably see nothing wrong in others doing the same. For example: "I object to mask wearing except where I'm in close contact with people. After all I diligently sanitize and try to social distance where possible, so I couldn't possible contract or pass on the disease". Or, "I'm travelling with my family and we've all tested clear, we wear masks and sanitize so we should be free to cross borders etc". All fair in your world - YES or NO? Or is it only you who should be free to choose which rules you'll observe and when you'll observe them?

                                            You also appear to believe that you're the (immaculate) exception to the rule that even the most diligent can unknowingly acquire and transmit covid-19 (esp delta) in an infected community. After all you only spent "2 secs" at the servo, and couldn't possibly have ever touched any surface/product where covid-19 was lurking, or breathed in a few covid-19 aerosol particles from an asymptomatic carrier who you know and trust and who was also wearing a mask, because you miraculously know everything they do and everywhere they've been, and the same for everyone else in a room they've shared. Is the picture emerging yet?

                                            Tracing is far from the be all and end all but it's been very important to date in this country to enable authorities to know what areas need to dealt with, for how long, and to what degree. To make it work effectively requires our co-operation and as with mask wearing it only works - or more accurately, it works MUCH better - if we all comply. There may occasionally be a valid reason for someone not checking in (confusion, unawareness. lack of tech… ) but having an irrational fear that it's the thin edge of a big brother society wedge isn't one of them (unless that's an actual diagnosed psychological problem). Jmo of course.

                                            Out of interest what label would you put on a society where breaking a law is okay but reasonably enforcing it isn't. Cereallian maybe, or just alien? "Seeing French police approach people at cafes demanding to see "their papers" is of serious concern. It's a foot in the door, and nobody should be asleep at the wheel, or asleep in the back seat of the apathetic masses bus.

                                      • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2021 - 11:21

                                        @cerealJay: This opinion (NB - just one at this point) might help offer hope and ease the pain, anxiety and bewilderment many are feeling wrt the constant to and froing of lockdowns etc.

                                        https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/astrazeneca-lead-scienti…

                                        It will be interesting to see what our state leaders and federal non-hose holders will do with such advice. The pandemic is a constantly evolving feast, esp since delta which makes ads like "we're not safe…" and the much parroted "herd immunity" look even less relevant. It also suggests that Astra Zeneca is not doing as well as hoped. Fortuitously Morrison and his Canberra mates all had Pfizer vaccines.

                                        I'm no expert but the constant public hammering of testing numbers and "cases" appears to be a pretty pointless exercise when the major focus has always been to limit pressures on health systems/workers (the "disease burden" mentioned in the link) and deal properly with serious cases. Those testing and positive numbers are important to health specialists and decision makers but they paint a false picture of the of the reality of the problem on the ground given vaccines are struggling to stop the spread.

                                        Extract: *"Scientists who addressed Britain’s all-party parliamentary group on coronavirus said it was time to accept that there is no way of stopping the virus spreading through the entire population, and monitoring people with mild symptoms was no longer helpful.

                                        Professor Andrew Pollard, who led the Oxford vaccine team, said it was clear that the Delta variant can still infect people who have been vaccinated, which made herd immunity impossible to reach, even with Britain’s high uptake…."*

                  • colinjames on 10/08/2021 - 13:49

                    @cerealJay: I think it might be more that people had run out of negative votes, since that list does not provide evidence for the claims made.

                    • the discombobulated… on 10/08/2021 - 14:17

                      @colinjames: Definitely the case for me. I'd've kept on giving them if the system let me. Didn't realise how long the madness would go on for.

                      Down with the system!

                    • jebdra on 26/08/2021 - 09:07

                      @colinjames: Agreed.

                      I was almost tempted to make another account to keep down voting.

                      Took the other option and reported. Spreading misinformation really needs to be stamped on, hard and early.

                      Honest disagreements are OK

                      Blanket statements like "not checking in is perfectly ok" and "not obeying the curfew is perfectly OK" are not.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:07
          +14

          Your ignorance is appalling. The facts about masks, sanitizers, social distancing, lockdowns, vaccine efficacy are all freely available onlline. There are no 100%% guarantees (eg vaccination doesn't guarantee that you won't get c19 or transmit it but stats show it dramatically reduces hospitalisation and death rates). It takes a special level of stupidity to suggest an all or nothing approach to public health. Your comment about governments "cashing in" is hilarious. I'm betting your financial knowledge is on a par with your understanding of this disease.

          Feel free to put your name on a do not treat register but stop pedalling your garbage in public.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:25
              +10

              @Deeseeee: Businesses put all manner of disclaimers on products, for many reasons. The fact that you think one label on a box of imported masks is unequivocal and trumps myriad medical papers and tests is significant. What's the current government debt? Guess they haven't got special knowledge of "cashing in".

              There are plenty of contentious anomalies wrt lockdown, who's allowed to operate and who isn't, why rich listers have no problem getting travel exemptions etc. That has sfa to do with yiur beliefs about masks and vaccines, which are patently nonsensical.

            • zoe hart on 08/08/2021 - 15:32
              +6

              @Deeseeee: Actually, the disclaimer you stated, says "does not eliminate exposure to or the risk of contracting
              any disease."

              That is not the same as "no protection against viruses or covid" as you describe you have interpreted it.

            • jebdra on 26/08/2021 - 09:08

              @Deeseeee: Damn - run out of down votes

        • Turd on 08/08/2021 - 13:11
          +6

          Let me know when Rona is at your door step.

          • KangaDrew on 08/08/2021 - 13:48
            +3

            @Turd: Its a bit of a challenge to pick up the phone when they'll be focused on breathing through a tube.

        • crackman on 08/08/2021 - 13:14
          +7

          Seatbelts don't give 100% injury protection. They certainly help prevent injury though.

          I guess they cause some chaffing. Better not use them. Russians roulette?

          I mean we have statistics and evidence but screw them right?

          • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 13:16
            -6

            @crackman: Ah yes because wearing a seatbelt is a great comparison to injecting unknown substances into your bloodstream. Your a good example of everyone's logic in here lol delusional

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:29
              +5

              @Deeseeee: Never taken a pill in your life then? Ever wondered how medicines and vaccines get to market? It's VERY early days in corona virus vaccine development but the results are undeniable. There are also risks involved. Bottom line - inform yourself using REPUTABLE sources and discuss your concerns with a knowledgeable practitioner.

              • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 13:43
                -2

                @[Deactivated]: Yeah the results are undeniable, even going by what the msm says: vaccinated people still get the virus and the vaccine causes blood clots among other serious health problems that can result in death, as I linked the 7news article before about the 34 year old woman dying from blood clots after taking the covid vaccine

                https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/nsw-woman-34…

                • Halc on 08/08/2021 - 13:47
                  +6

                  @Deeseeee: 7 death in 6.6m doses given. How many has died from covid?

                  • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 13:52
                    -3

                    @Halc: Not many according to the qld health minister, she also said she doesn't want young people getting the vaccine as it has a higher chance of killing you than the supposed virus. But in my opinion no one should get it young or old if it's that bad the health minister has to come out and say that

                    • sanmigueelbeer on 08/08/2021 - 15:21
                      +1

                      @Deeseeee:

                      https://ibb.co/NydNQhs
                      Not many according to the qld health minister, she also said she doesn't want young people getting the vaccine as it has a higher chance of killing you than the supposed virus.

                      What date was this quote taken from because you are not playing a fair game here. Dr Young said what she said because Pfizer vaccine was not an option & because the Federal Government did not buy any.

                      In daily QLD Health press conferences Dr Young keeps repeating: Get vaccinated

                      In recent press conferences, I do not recall Dr Young recommending "Do not get vaccinated with AZ. Do not get vaccinated with Pfizer."

                      • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 15:25
                        -3

                        @sanmigueelbeer: Her own words not mine, as quoted in the picture from the article I linked. Its just like the mask doesn't matter what brand it is..

                        • sanmigueelbeer on 08/08/2021 - 15:28
                          +3

                          @Deeseeee:

                          Her own words not mine, as quoted in the picture from the article I linked.

                          Do you have a date when she said this?

                          Since you have been championing this, I do not want to be the one to search for the date when Dr Young made this recommendation.

                          Its just like the mask doesn't matter what brand it is..

                          Please do not change the subject. I am not talking about face masks.

                          I believe Dr Young's comment, that you are aggressively championing, was made before the Australian Federal Government sourced and acquired Pfizer vaccines. With Pfizer now part of the "menu", the argument of "do not get vaccinated (with AZ or Pfizer) because Dr Young said so about AZ" is not holding.

                          I mean, I have asked you what your opinion is on Pfizer vaccination and I have not seen your response(s). (And if you have provided your opinion about getting the Pfizer jab, do let me/us know.)

                      • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 17:46
                        +5

                        @sanmigueelbeer: Context is important. As accurate as it was at the time, I very much doubt she'd have made that comment if Qld was going through what NSW is, or if the hypocritical flip-flopping Morrison - the bloke responsible for walking away from a Pfizer deal 12 months ago and whose lack of action on Aged Care and remote quarantine directly and indirectly resulted in 655 deaths - hadn't constantly bagged Labor states while praising his "gold standard" cohort Gladys.

                        • sanmigueelbeer on 08/08/2021 - 20:14
                          +2

                          @[Deactivated]: I agree, Possumbly. I agree.

                          I have never seen any person's comment garnering so much negs until now.

                • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 13:56
                  +4

                  @Deeseeee: It's a forlorn hope but I suggest you read what the PHE says about vaccination efficacy (primarily based on the AZ vaccine) and then ask a friend to explain the concept of risk. Here's a PHE report from a few weeks ago which will help: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/…

                  • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 14:00
                    -1

                    @[Deactivated]: Why would anyone need to read a study about risk when it's pretty obvious when people are dying from blood clots after taking the vaccine which proves my point before about it entering the blood stream and breaching the blood brain barrier. "Concept of risk" lmao where did you get this unearned sense of accomplishment from when I've had to teach you about the cause and effect of masks and vaccines this whole time?

                    • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 14:21
                      +2

                      @Deeseeee: So what does your cereal packet tell you in regard to the number of deaths from rare (there's a clue for you) thrombosis versus the number of deaths from C19?

                      Oddly enough I can't recall any teacher I've ever had who was as wilfully ignorant as you so it's unsurprising that I'd ignore your "advice"..

                      • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 14:24
                        -2

                        @[Deactivated]: What are you talking about cereal packet lol? Iinked an image of the box the n95 masks come in, specifically the warning that says they provide zero protection against viruses. I also linked a 7news article that states a 34yr woman dying from clotting caused by the covid vaccine. Where is this cereal packet? What is happening is your false reality is crumbling before your eyes and you have nothing but jibberish to say back

                        • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 14:37
                          +3

                          @Deeseeee:

                          Iinked an image of the box the n95 masks come in, specifically the warning that says they provide zero protection against viruses

                          Yes, and since that's undoubtedly your sole source of information I'd suggest hold onto it tightly.

                          OR you could do some basic research and at least try learn to differentiate between surgical masks and n95 masks. Wouldn't want you to make an ass of yourself on another mask deal.

                          • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 14:42
                            -1

                            @[Deactivated]: What are you even talking about lol? I'm not saying there's no mask on earth that won't provide adequate protection against certain things even a virus, as someone else mentioned biohazard suits should be pretty effective in protection against viruses but it's not the point. The point was the lack of info from the health agencies and government bodies and their lack of empathy in regards to punishing people for not wearing masks regardless of their authenticity. But what's more alarming is the deadly side effects of the vaccines, so much so the health minister said to not take it, but at the same time they're telling you to take it. The point is that something isn't right and there's more to the story and for people to not be so gullible. We have no problem shaming labour and politicians for cheating, robbing, killing and even raping people of the public but when it comes to this oh nah they'd lie about everything but this

                            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 15:36
                              +5

                              @Deeseeee: What am I talking about? When all boiled down I'm suggesting you inform yourself PROPERLY, stop pedalling nonsense and regurgitating conspiracy theory garbage, and at least TRY toget your head around the BASIC concepts of vaccines and their effectiveness in public health management. There are no guarantees, no silver bullets, no 100% solutions.

                        • cwongtech on 08/08/2021 - 15:01
                          +3

                          @Deeseeee:

                          Iinked an image of the box the n95 masks come in

                          That box of mask is definitely not what N95 masks look like..

                          • Deeseeee on 08/08/2021 - 15:02

                            @cwongtech: WARNING: This respirator helps protect against certain particulate
                            contaminants but does not eliminate exposure to or the risk of contracting
                            any disease or infection. Misuse may result in sickness or death. For
                            proper use, see supervisor, or User Instructions

                            That's the disclaimer for the n95 so it doesn't matter same rule applies

                            • cwongtech on 08/08/2021 - 15:08
                              +3

                              @Deeseeee:

                              Misuse may result in sickness or death. For proper use, see supervisor, or User Instructions

                              Found a photo of you online!

                              That's the disclaimer for the n95 so it doesn't matter same rule applies

                              That's like saying a water gun can't quench a fire.. when compared to a fire hose (which has a much higher pressure) and claiming fire hoses won't work because there's a disclaimer used for a water gun that's got "this cannot put out fires" on it.

                              Both shoot out water, but are designed for different velocities and water volume.

                              But "it doesn't matter, same rule applies"?

                • KangaDrew on 08/08/2021 - 13:57
                  +9

                  @Deeseeee: The fact that you think the vaccine is meant to 100% protect you from covid proves just how delusional, uneducated, misinformed and easily swayed you are by people who probably didn't even pass high school science. But you're smart, right? You've graduated from Google University after passing your exams while taking a dump, only to come out with a sh.t stained Diploma in Stupidity.

                  Unfortunately, no one here has the time or the crayons to break it down into easily digestible chunks that even someone with your level of Dunning-Kruger could understand. But good luck with that respirator when the time comes.

                  • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2021 - 14:24
                    +5

                    @KangaDrew: He may not a medical degree but he's undoubtedly an honorary member of the D-K community.

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