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Next time you’re wondering why your parcel hasn’t arrived on time, have a think about the delivery driver who may have brought your parcel.
‘This is just no way to live’: What it’s like delivering parcels for Amazon
Amazon Flex Delivery Driver Perspective
sween64 on 29/08/2021 - 10:07
Last edited 29/08/2021 - 10:40 by 1 other user
Last edited 29/08/2021 - 10:40 by 1 other user
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yeah I don't think Scotland are anywhere near a UBI. The insane proposal requires a tax rate above 50% for a base rate rising to over 80% for the top tier, the country would rip itself apart at those rates.
I like the sound of the Swiss method mentioned upthread. 10% extra tax on your pay for 400 days unemployment at 70-80% of your salary depending if you have dependents. So you do have to work occasionally but if you want to take some time off for a personal project, or volunteering, or because your kid is having a hard time and you need to be home with them for a while, you can. Not quite UBI but you can actually live decently during career breaks.
I feel sad for them. please dont take the job. make amazon au offer more money.
lol @ the white people on this thread saying get another job.
Do you know how hard it is for a poor brown or asian person (with limited experience) with an accent to get a job in Australia. Most educated immigrants in management have a bias and older white managers are just racist. Imagine being told to get another job but not willing to hire the person just because he's/she's different.
I was born in this country but the amount of times I have told off HR or dumb ass management for being racist is too many to count. I say it in a bogan accent or show them a recent report from the Human Rights Commission and that's when it hits them.
Everybody is racist because they have an over supply of cheap labor that can be abused ?
what does it say about companies who 'abuse' that cheap labor and customers who are ok with it?
You also need a government to let the unqualified people in.
And they do somehow, so that property prices go up because of demand, and all the Tradies ( somehow skilled people ) have a job. And to resolve the aging population issue.
Export Steel and coal and import people.
to a lot of people here its basically 'work this job as long as its legal or not your choice'
and its not even about racism, the abc article is about a white guy
its just a complete lack of empathy for anyone 'as long as its legal'
i've got money, i dont need to ever need to buy shit from amazon but i feel for that guy in that abc article
the abc article is about a white guy
Token white dude in an industry dominated by poor overseas students and immigrants.
Majority of my Amazon deliveries are by brown people probably Indians, so I was a bit surprised there was Indian representation in that article, did they use a white guy so that Aussies can relate to him?
I am also appalled at the complete lack of empathy in some of these comments. Yes, it's true that Amazon will continue to exploit cheap labour so long as its in supply. Yes, it's also true that they could try to find a job elsewhere. However, there is no reason to be fanboying over Amazon's disgusting treatment of its workers just because you were fortunate enough to be born into and live a life where you don't need to do this as a job.
its just a complete lack of empathy for anyone 'as long as its legal'
This statement doesn't make any sense. What you dismiss as "as long as it's legal" just happens to be the bar society has set for what is acceptable.
We have minimum wage laws, workplace safety regulations…etc. If these laws are not being followed, then it's an enforcement issue that should be addressed accordingly. If these laws are being followed correctly, then it is fair game.
My personal view is that this sort of "outrage generation" is unproductive because it's just a way for us to feel good about ourselves whilst not actually doing anything to address the issues that we're purporting to raise - i.e. it's just virtue signalling.
In my view, Amazon is irrelevant in this discussion - management are doing what they are hired to do, push the boundaries of what's legal to drive profitability for their shareholders.
The role of regulating the market to ensure a more desirable societal outcome belongs to government, not to Amazon or any other company. If this is genuinely an issue for you, then you shouldn't be railing against Amazon, you should be writing to your local MP to either make the workplace laws we have more stringent, or improve compliance.
But of course, that actually requires us to take responsibility and do something. It's much easier to get angry at Amazon to feel good about ourselves whilst continuing to purchase goods from Amazon next time there's a sale, right?
Your opening line is a cracker LOL.
Seriously don’t understand people who are ‘if you don’t like the job don’t do it’. I have heard some people who think there shouldn’t be a minimum wage even. Why is it so hard to have some empathy for those less well off than you… If you’re poor, and perhaps on a visa, it’s not so easy to just ‘get another job’, especially if you’re constantly just breaking even on pay and living expenses, it can be incredibly difficult to get out of a situation where you’re relying on the gig economy. Vulnerable people often rly on such crappy jobs with minimum legal protections, and we as a society should be looking to help these people, not look down upon them.
When you haven’t got a lot of money it’s hard to have the time and or economic resources to upskill and eventually climb up the economic ladder. All these “gig” apps are just legal rebranding of shitty below wage minimum gigs, as far as I can tell. They may as well be casual employees as some others have pointed out.
I also don’t think that treating these workers a little bit better would have a huge impact on the customer experience either. It would just mean the already super rich folk like Bezos take home a bit less dough. So it always surprises me when you get the stock standard ‘get another job’ responses. Do Australians really think our country would be better if we didn’t have minimum wages and other protections like those states in the US where workers are basically treated as expendable? Minimum wages improve pay for everyone not just those at the bottom.
This article has definitely made me reconsider my Amazon Prime subscription. People may say that these workers should all just quit to force Amazon to improve conditions, but again for vulnerable people and people who need money desperately this often isn’t an option.
I bit of empathy can go a long way and looking out for those less fortunate than us costs us very little.
Some of those people grew up in countries with less career opportunities than Australia and no social welfare (Centrelink payments), or have worked pretty hard to be where they are so they tend to see people like the guy in the article and only hear whining.
The guy is only working 4 hrs per week. He has time to look for another job. And $30/hr is still $25/hr after fuel and car costs, which is still $20/hr plus $4 for casual wages and an additional dollar. I.e it’s still minimum wage. Should minimum wage be higher to make up for the rising cost of living? Probably. Should Amazon given how big they are offer better pay than minimum wage? Absolutely. But they’re not any worse than Uber, Menulog, Dominos or many of the other places that hire casuals and pay them minimum wage.
Did the article say he works 4 hours a week?
The article said his annual income was 23000, which is 213 blocks at $108/block, which works out to 852 hours. Assuming he takes 4 weeks off and doesn't work public holidays, that's about 18.5 hours per week.
Also, minus his expenses of 4k for petrol and 1.5k maintenance, that comes out to $20.5/hr, assuming no penalty rates.
This article has definitely made me reconsider my Amazon Prime subscription.
I rarely using Amazon Prime but I will be cancelling mine for this month.
The "(profanity) you got mine" US mentality is pretty strong here so yeah no point talking about empathy.
Yep. Aus is slowly becoming more like the US, and not like the good parts.
I think you are confusing two ideas here, and I actually think it is you who is not empathetic:
- How should we structure society to be better for everyone, and
- Given society is the way it is, how should an individual best navigate it
The response of "if you don't like the job, find a new job" is a response to (2), not a response to (1). Just imagine that someone you care about, a friend, a brother/sister comes to you and tells you that they hate their job.
What would you do? Would you tell them to consider finding a new job and discuss how they might go about doing that, or are you going to sit there and lecture to them about how their situation deserves more empathy, that we should have better protections for workers, that we should have a higher minimum wage.
Would you tell them to continue working their job whilst you write to your local MP hoping to increase their minimum wage?
I actually think the much more empathetic thing to do is to encourage people to pursue what makes them feel happy.
It is far less empathetic, IMO, to say that people should resign themselves to doing whatever it is they're currently doing in the hope that you (and society can make things better).
Therefore, it is possible to hold both these opinions at the same time. One could hold the belief that society can and should do better, that there should be progress towards having better protections and conditions for workers, but at the same time, also understanding that these sorts of changes take time and that it is definitely best for those who dislike / hate their jobs or feel like they're being exploited to take active action and make their lives better.
This is really not that sophisticated to understand and I'm sure you understand it yourself. But hey, it's easier to just go out all guns blazing and portray yourself as the white knight, the only person around here who is "empathetic", right?
"What would you do? Would you tell them to consider finding a new job and discuss how they might go about doing that, or are you going to sit there and lecture to them about how their situation deserves more empathy, that we should have better protections for workers, that we should have a higher minimum wage."
Conflating my opinion on government policy and worker protection with the advice I would give a friend or family member is a bit of a straw man. Where did I say that people shouldn't try to move up the economic ladder? Precisely the reason why we should support people is because it makes it easier for them to further their education (one of the best ways to move up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility) and train up to get a better job - actions which are likely hard if you're working a bunch of gig economy jobs with no employee protections, leave, and no guaranteed pay.
"I actually think the much more empathetic thing to do is to encourage people to pursue what makes them feel happy.
It is far less empathetic, IMO, to say that people should resign themselves to doing whatever it is they're currently doing in the hope that you (and society can make things better)."
Yes, my point is that sometimes when people have a limited social safety net and only one source of income, it can be extremely difficult for them to move onto a better job with better working conditions. I never said that people should resign themselves to a job they don't like so that we can make it better for them. The fact is people work these jobs - whether it's because they're in between jobs, they are happy with the job (in which case good for them), or because of other situations in their life such as illness which are making it harder for them to move to a job they're prefer. We're a wealthy country, and I think most if not all jobs which employ adults should have resonable working conditions and resonable pay. Hardly controversial.
"But hey, it's easier to just go out all guns blazing and portray yourself as the white knight, the only person around here who is "empathetic", right?"
How is saying we should pay minimum worker wages a bit more and/or give employees in gig jobs more protections "white knighting". My views clearly aren't even particularly niche, so no I don't think I'm the 'only person with empathy', I just think that some people could be a bit more empathetic.
Hello there,
I do Amazon Flex. It pays me around $124-$150 per block of 4 hours, which I usually complete in 2.5 hours, delivering around 25-40 parcels to different addresses within same LGA.
First of all, Amazon Flex is not a job. It's a GIG. If you consider it a job, then you are mistaken.
My friend does Amazon Flex as a full-time job. He makes $800 per week for 4 hour of work, 6 days a week. Let's say, $150 expenses, he still makes $650 for 24 hours of work a week.
Obviously, there are expenses as well but that's what you get as an independent contractor.
All you have to do is pickup the parcels from amazon warehouse and start delivering. Finish your work in 3 hours & go home. Out of $124, even if you spend $24-$30 on fuel + maintanence etc, you still $90 for 3 hour work, which I think is not bad.
These GIGs are really good actually. Most people don't like it because they start doing it as a full time job, which shouldn't happen in the first place.
I may not have articulated this post, but yeah, hope you get the point.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Have you ever broken any of the rules, or had Amazon penalise you in any way? Do you ever find it taking more than the four hours to complete a run?
No, I haven't broken any of the rules, except maybe some road laws like parking, uturn through bold lines that do not put any party in danger.
I have gotten some warnings from Amazon that some customers say that they haven't got the parcels that I marked delivered.
But I can understand, there's always 1% of people who would like refunds on the item based on the lies. They do not care that they are risking other people's jobs because of this.
Amazon has never penalised me & I think they understand that there are liars in the community & do this dodgy stuff to get the refund.
I don't remember any time it took me more than 4 hours to deliver these parcels. If it takes you more, it means you are slow or the route you got has more apartments without parking.
A lot of time, it has taken me even less than 2 hour to complete the deliveries.
How do you manage to make your deliveries in 2.5 hours? Is that just you or is it common for others you know?
"Yet even a straightforward route can be delayed by unexpected problems, like when customers are not home to receive their parcel.
Alex must try to call the customer on his own phone, and if they do not answer, call Amazon’s support team and ask for permission to leave the package unattended.
“Because if the parcel gets damaged or stolen that’s on me,” he says.
“It can take maybe 10 or 15 minutes. If you do that four or five times on every block, it really builds up.”"Is this the reason that Alex from the article is struggling do you think? The Amazon deliveries I've had this year, the drivers don't even bother knocking or ringing the bell, they just drop it in front of the door and go.
@macfudd: I just place the delivery on the doorstep, ring & take the picture. This way, I have evidence for Amazon that I delivered & customer knows where's the delivery. If they are at home, they would get it.
Even if someone doesn't ring, you get the picture/notification on your phone that your parcel is outside, right?
@pr0o: Nope. I'll get an email from Amazon at some point later that day but it's usually an hour or so later. I've never received a picture or a phone notification, didn't even know that happened. Is it a direct text message or a notification via the Amazon app itself?
I actually took the gate off it's hinges and rubbed off much of the grease a couple months back. Now it screeches horribly when someone opens it so I hear them coming that way instead.
@macfudd: Alex is struggling probably because he has no experience in delivering and driving. He is struggling with finding the parking. He is a bit overweight so that slows him down.
Amazon Flex might not be for him(?).
@macfudd: We do contactless deliveries due to covid, arrive at customers house, assess for safe location (weather and out of sight), place parcel and take a photo which is sent straight to the customers app to advise delivery.
At least this is what we are meant to do.
Yes I think Alex is struggling because I found so many of his statements inaccurate.
@Tickle: I see them taking a photo on the phone and walking off and the app will notify me that my item was delivered but as a customer you don't ever see that photo of the item. It must only be used for dispute process if the customer tried to claim it wasn't delivered.
@Agret: if done properly, you can see the photo in the the order's track package.
Your Account › Your Orders › Order Details › Track Package
@Agret: I must admit as a customer I have the same problem maybe 50% of the time and I cannot answer why the photos don’t show up, I know with every delivery I do I make sure to take the photos and send them through the app.
Just out of curiosity, how does delivery in apartments (especially in the huge towers) work ? You can't even get in those buildings. Wouldn't these deliveries take much longer than where the parcel is left at the fornt door of a house ?
Near my house, a building has the entrance for some apartments on the main road. Where is the driver supposed to keep the parcels ? Or is he supposed to buzz to be allowed in the building and go to the apartment to deliver the parcel ?
Got a couple of questions if you don't mind answering.
In your opinion do you think Alex was complaining too much? Do you feel that the workload is manageable?
In terms of the routes, the image in the article shows a route that seems to be kind of inefficient, i.e. Alex has to travel to point 20, then the cluster from 21-25, then to 26 which is near point 20 so he basically has to double back. In your experience do you find the routes provided by Amazon to be efficient and logical?
Sounds like an interesting gig and I'd probably take it up if I had time to spare on weekends for some extra cash and to just "give it a go".
Workload is definitely manageable. You might feel a bit stressed on your first few runs but you will be used to it.
It depends on your luck too. If you get an area which do not have apartment complexes / less parking, then it gets a bit hard for you. If you get an area which has a lot of houses & plenty of parking, it's easy.
Not sure if Amazon's router are efficient, but they have a logic behind it. Some people like it, some people don't.
They basically move you in circles so you might feel like the stop #xx is closer but it has a logic behind it. If you don't like it, then you don't have to follow it & it doesn't take much to change the route.
Good luck. Hope you like the new GIG! You can also try DoorDash, if you like.
I'm not actually going to do it haha. I've got other things I want to work on, but thanks for the insight.
$90 for 3 hour work
Minus tax, then factor in that you get no holiday pay, no sick pay, no super etc.
And have to pay fuel, registration, insurance, servicing, repairs out of that $90. Once all that + what you mentioned gets added up, it’s down to about $50 (or less) for those (up to) 4 hours of work.
Fuel registration insurance all that is part of owning a car LOL
Fuel
LOL! This actually goes up the more you use it LOL, so if you are using it for Amazon delivers, you use more LOLOL
@brendanm: And added to that, you have to pay business use car insurance LOL and it has to be registered as a business vehicle LOL and because of the extra km being traveled due to using it as a work car, it has to be serviced and repaired more frequently LOLOOLOOOL.
I already deducted it from $124 that I got.
So you made $124 net for your 4 hour block? As in, $124 after you’d subtracted all your expenses? What was your gross pay, and what were the expenses? Genuine question
I mean no disrespect to you with the below, but I think this attitude is indicative of someone who has never run a business.
'All you have to do is pickup the parcels from amazon warehouse and start delivering. Finish your work in 3 hours & go home. Out of $124, even if you spend $24-$30 on fuel + maintanence etc, you still $90 for 3 hour work, which I think is not bad.'
It's not $90 for 3 hours work. You need to factor in depreciation / running your car into the ground as a delivery driver. Effectively shortening its lifespan.
Now you can effectively take 20% off that wage if you want to compare it to a full time position since you don't get paid holidays. I'm assuming you're a contractor or this shit wouldn't fly, so you're probably a sole trader with an ABN. Need to pay your super out of that $124 too.
If you wrote up a business plan and looked over it with the above you'd basically say I will go get a job somewhere.
I can however see the appeal if you need something really flexible. I've personally driven for uber and the pay is shit when you factor everything in similar to what you're seeing (although not as bad, but also the work is worse ie having people in your car).
I can however see the appeal if you need something really flexible. I've personally driven for uber and the pay is shit when you factor everything in similar to what you're seeing (although not as bad, but also the work is worse ie having people in your car).
The pay is shit and driving Uber is shit because it's become a commoditised job now with way too many "professional" drivers - showing that it's an easy job that people who can't or don't want to do other things are leveraging to make money.
Back in the day, driving Uber used to be much more profitable. When I was in uni, Uber was a fantastic way to make bank. If you were willing to not go out on Friday/Saturday nights and just hung around in the city, you could easily make $$$ working way less hours than any other job.
I drove for uber in 2016 and I still thought the money was shit personally. Yeah you could make OK money working a fri / sat night but by the time you factored the wear and tear on your car and the hours you put it in late at night it wasn't great.
Would have been better off working a warehouse / some other night gig (I needed night work as I was starting an IT business), however the flexibility was what got me. Only did it for a few months and then luckily picked up some flexible daytime subcontracting work.
The shift work messed me up good too.
Agree with what you are saying if you were looking at it from a full time job perspective, but like that guy said it's a "gig". If you were in uni, had a sh!t car had a spare few hours to blow and need some quick cash to buy your latest fix, this seems like a fairly easy way to do it when you want rather than getting another casual job.
Out of $124, even if you spend $24-$30 on fuel + maintenance etc, you still $90 for 3 hour work
Allocation for tax and super?
They don't "have" to pay super as contractors. But they should.
Tax isn't really relevant here. People don't say they make $30 an hour or $100k a year after tax when employed, they state their before tax rate.
Hourly or annual, sure. Most people will use their after tax figure for weekly or monthly income though, as that is what they get in their PAYG employment.
I tried this gig as well on Melbourne Lockdown 4.0 cos of boredom. This gig gave me an excuse to go out, and feel life again :). I did it 10x, It's ok gig unless you got inner city area like pharan in melbourne. That was my last gig, too much stress to find the parking and apartments/store, finish 5 hours on my 4hours block, plus I got parking fine of $165 on that day haha, worked for free and out of pocket $47 for a day.
But if you got schedule at outer suburb like narre warren, you could easily finish in~ 3 hours. All in all it's a good experience but I wont do it again..not worth the money and the stress.
Apparently, all you need to park in a loading zone for 15 minutes is a courier sticker. Though often these loading zones have cars there already.
They don't accept sticker, only permanent courier sign.
I read this article earlier and thought it was really interesting to get this perspective on Amazon deliveries, much to the dismay of the LNP voters who say "AbC sO BiAsEd! AbC sO BaD!" lmao.
At times when I was reading it I couldn't help but wonder if this guy was actually trying hard enough to deliver his parcels though, as it is pretty easy to spin a "woe is me" story, like the part where he says he won't work for free. For example I understand say, if you have 5 or 6 parcels left and time is up, that you probably wouldn't want to deliver them if they're out of the way. But if there's 1 or 2 parcels left and you can drop it off on the way back to your next port of call, why wouldn't you, even if it would cost you say 10 minutes of unpaid time? When I was in hospitality there'd be times where I would leave work 5-10 minutes late just to get something done. Some people would call that stupid ("WoRkInG foR FrEe Is DumB!"), other people would see it as someone being a diligent worker ("Wow that's good of you, I would never stay back 1 minute after I had to finish.")
I do think that it's pretty abhorrent how Amazon seems to treat it's Flex drivers though, e.g. no vehicle allowance (although that seems to be par for the course when it comes to gig work), possibly an unreasonable demand on how many packages are delivered, not providing real human assistance, cutting people off via email etc.
Alex reminds me of a Labor voter, working hard and getting screwed over so the Liberal voter (in this case, Jeff Bezos) can go to the moon.
I dont do shit for free.
I did two hours overtime last night. I got paid for it + shift allowances + 1.5x weekend loading.
Any company that relies on free overtime is a shit company. The end.
Thanks for your reply, my life is now complete and I will be able to sleep properly now that I know that you, tonyjzx, "don't do shit for free."
you apparently do so thanks for your charity
@Ghost47: Charity for "for profit" companies make the world a worse place, as they think they can then get away with not paying people for time worked, while they profit.
@tonyjzx: Cool looks like they have plenty out there who don’t mind working for peanuts as well .
Nice cheap unskilled labourer pool out there if you can figure out how to use it .@popsiee: Just because some people (not you obviously) are willing to lend a hand here and there doesn't really give you the right to exploit them but you do you, I guess. That just speaks to your morals and values as a human being, if anything.
@Ghost47: Its just biz doing what they do best trying to save a buck and looks like AMZ have a good one here .
Luck for these guys there is govt regulation and unions that try to protect them .
Imagine the Wild West if they weren't in play .
This Tony guy would be working for 0 not realising what his car expenses are with the supply available .@popsiee: what makes you think i drive for a living?
i have before but it was at 75c a km and they pay me from the time i get out of bed and to the time i get home
this is the difference between a company that values its employees and needs skilled staff on site rather than whatever the hell this gig shit is
also working for a company for free isnt some kind of badge of honour
this aint mother theresa shit
you do that you're a sucker nothing more
As soon as the workers start organising, the government gets active in their interventions and try their best to suppress it by making organisation and determining their collective rates and actions illegal and newscorpse names these actions with criminalising terms.
THEY HAVE FREE WILL so move on stop complaining there is probably 100 people waiting for that job
The way they treat people is a bit of a joke.
I’ve been to one of their Wharehouses where they literally lock the drivers waiting to be loaded/unloaded (big trucks) in a cage with cameras on you.
To be fair, it’s not a terrible cage… had a couch a table some chairs and a tv… but it was still a cage inside the Wharehouse with cameras watching you and no toilet + no water the few times i went there.
The exit door is not locked but if you open it, you will set the alarm off. If you go near the door or hover around the door too early the security will tell you to sit down via pa system 😂
This door doesn’t open into the Wharehouse, it opens to the yard where the trucks are, so not like you could steal stuff anyway.I’m not complaining about it, I couldn’t care less at the time when i was there. It’s just a very odd experience and sort of demonstrates their mentality towards people working for/with them.
It's for safety reasons.
This sort of thing is at all warehouses, but generally the ones I've worked at were some combination of plastic outdoor chair(s) with a yellow plastic chain around it, partially in the sun, sometimes an empty water cooler.
The drivers often complained they wanted to sit in their air conditioned trucks.I’ve been to many different sites with different driver safety areas.
I understand why sites do what they do. There’s no question about it.
I don’t agree with how they do it at Amazon.
They aren’t the only ones with poor drivers areas, as you mentioned some other site driver areas are absolute jokes (I’ve been on mine sites where i was told to stand in the sun in full ppe in the desert with no shade/water/toilet/chairs between plastic bolards)As i said, it’s not just Amazon.
But they are the only place I’ve been to that lock you in a literal cage.
I’ve worked on a prison extension and had the same if not more freedom to walk around on site, use toilets etc then Amazon gave.
A good portion of "digital disruption" is window-dressing for 21st century serfdom.
What's your issue?
"Yet even a straightforward route can be delayed by unexpected problems, like when customers are not home to receive their parcel.
Alex must try to call the customer on his own phone, and if they do not answer, call Amazon’s support team and ask for permission to leave the package unattended."I don't get this bit. Nearly every delivery by Amazon contractors gets left at my door. Most don't even ring the doorbell.
Not once has any of them tried to ring me, or hung around while waiting for approval from Amazon to leave unattended.Yes we make calls on our phones but via the app and we never actually call them or see their number, the app calls us back then connects us.
We do contact free deliveries due to covid and are not meant to knock, we leave the parcels, take photos and a delivery alert within 3 minutes. This is due to covid.
yes this is what the experienced flex drivers are doing.
the newbie will always try to ring the door bell, wait for the customers to come to the door and accept the packages. if they have waited more than 5 minutes, they will try to call the customer via the app which mostly will get ignored as the incoming number are 02 Sydney-based.
Cry me a River. Don't like it, don't do it. It's not a job, it's a platform to earn extra cash on the side. I did subcontract IT jobs, just virus scans, data recovery, etc onsite at people's houses. Not enough to make a wage, but was never intended to be. It is a GIG.
This is turning into ozwhinge between Amazon, youfoodz and Kogan rants.
Exactly NOBODY forced you to take on that job allow someone else who actually needs work to take it
Like the abc story on food delivery drivers.
This is a common experience. I remember reading this before…
Here’s the article.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-28/fired-by-…
I agree with many who believe if your not happy you can quit, the pay and expectations of delivery are transparent and sometimes it can lead to unpaid overtime or packed cars where it’s dangerous. If it’s sometimes it’s life, if it’s nearly every time, you can suspect it’s be design.
With many companies, amazon particularly, its by design. This is where it’s crosses the line in my books. The fear factor of giving warnings and unexpected dismissal is displays the one sided contract amazon has and wielding unfair power.
Some people say yea who gives a hoot, there’s 100 people waiting to work for Flex if they leave etc etc, this is bull dust. Amazon doesn’t haVe enough drivers in Australia, this is the reason why some drivers get repeated warnings but are not let go of, there is no replacement, currently.
But it’s also why some drivers do suddenly find themselves with no hours, there’s a sudden influx of options and amazon chooses to unilaterally dismiss someone with no merit or reason.But as Jeff says, thank you guys working for peanuts and sending me to space.
Also, I should add, amazon doesn’t just enjoy screwing low skilled workers, they enjoy screwing over the general public too.
Also, I should add, amazon doesn’t just enjoy screwing low skilled workers, they enjoy screwing over the general public too.
Strong disagree.
As a consumer, I have always had a positive experience with Amazon. Just some examples of how Amazon has treated me well:
1 - Delivery stolen or gone missing, Amazon refunds instantly
2 - Had faulty items, Amazon accepts the claim without any fuss, unlike local retailers who spent 30 mins of my time trying to diagnose the issue themselves and invariably fail because they're not qualified
3 - Lowest prices on a lot of goods
4 - The fastest and most reliable shipping
FWIW, I agree with your other points, but completely disagree that Amazon treats its customers poorly. Amazon, IMO, has perfected the balance of just staying out of the customer's way and letting the customer drive the experience.
but completely disagree that Amazon treats its customers poorly
Not sure where I said amazon treats its customers poorly. I never said that. Amazon customer service is legendary.
My comment in regards to amazon screws the general public, is literally the general public. Amazon is known for its aggressive tax avoidance. Rightly or wrongly.
Now, I know its not the only company that pursues tax avoidance, its possibly not the worse either. But I'm not sure if that's a good enough defense.
Amazon is my no.1 place to shop be it electronic or groceries due to their excellent customer service and prompt delivery
When I order from Amazon, I know it will be a pleasant experience
So please do clarify how they are screwing over the general public
So please do clarify how they are screwing over the general public
Exactly - the whole "they're also screwing over the general public" is just a justification so that people who shop at Amazon don't feel guilty about the fact that they're complicit in Amazon workers being treated like shit.
I always hear these stories about how Amazon is a shit employer but I know 4 different people (2 in the US and 2 in AU) who work for Amazon and they all really like it and think it provides better conditions than similar jobs?
I’d agree that $120 for 4 hrs of work when you have to use your own car isn’t great, but I also know someone who works as a causal at Dominos delivering pizzas (using his own car) who gets less than that per hour under the same conditions? So I don’t get why it’s only a fuss when it’s related to Amazon.
I agree re: the environmental factors, which is why I don’t participate in the buying any one thing due to free shipping. And the pay could be better, but that’s the case for a lot of other casual jobs. Truth is that the article linked, like many other abc articles, was a “woe is me” sad story. The guy took a casual job that was meant to be supplementing an income and decided to have it as his sole income and then complaining about it. Australia isn’t a third world country, there are plenty of other options available to him.
Australia isn’t a third world country
The point is, Amazon is here. They need drivers here.
You're saying if person A doesn't like it, quit and find something else. Person B might enjoy being exploited?I’m saying person B might not feel like they’re being exploited because this is a side job for them.
I’m also saying that yes Amazon is here and so are a lot of businesses providing those same benefits. So I’m not sure why Amazon is specifically being targeted and not dominos or others.
Or, more realistically, person B is desperate or is unaware of the exploitative nature of the job.
@Autonomic: And this is what I meant by person B is living in Australia and not a third wold country. Giving our working rights, no one here should be exploited. There are a lot of other jobs and opportunities out there, but then we’re just running around in circles.
Our definitions of exploiting also vary greatly if you think that a job paying $25/hr is exploiting someone.
@Laurana: This isn't the equivalent of $25 an hour. You're paying your own super, maintenance and fuel.
@Autonomic: It's $30/hr. We're generously deducting $5/hr for maintenance and fuel. Without that it'd be $25/hr from which you'd be paying your own entitlements (super and leave) leaving you with $20/hr = minimum wage.
This is despite many users in the thread who actually do this job saying that it takes a lot less than 4hrs, which would give it a higher hourly rate.
As I've said before, yes you can argue that amazon should be paying more than minimum wage, or that minimum wage should be higher, but $20/hr is not really 'exploiting' someone.
@Autonomic: From the OZBargain poster who works as an Amazon Flex driver and stated that it pays him around $124-$150 per block of 4 hours, which he usually completes in 2.5 hours. My understanding is that $108 is the base minimum, and the average block is above that amount.
Be it $108 or $120 or $150, it’s still a shit wage. I’m not arguing against it and this isn’t a hill I want to die on.
The article came across as very “woe is me” and you are talking about the guy in the article being exploited which rubbed me the wrong way. Yes he’s getting a shit wage, but according to the article the guy made $23k in the year less $5.5k of car costs. This would work out to $336/week which is only $20 greater than the jobseeker payment. I don’t see why anyone in Australia would choose this as their full time income.
Furthermore, at $23k/year he would have done at most 4 $108 blocks per week. I don’t see many non-skilled professions being able to provide a living wage when you’re only working 16 hrs per week.
Dominos CEO > LEO? No-no.
Bezos…might be Tall Poppy Syndrome.. You don't think earlier reports, per their aspirations, to fully automate everything and have drones deliver stuff might have some bearing here?
Showed a desire to eliminate what they perceive as their biggest weakness: carbon-based life forms with physical needs that sometimes get tired and emotional.
Could be worse don't ubereats drivers get $7-8 per delivery and most times average like $20 per hour? These are gigs not jobs. If you're doing this fulltime then you're doing it wrong.
They are using the excuse of this is to boost or top up their primary income.
Just like all the others, it's not a ideal primary source of income.
@rlf: Isn't the UK ( Oxford Vaccine Centre ) the creator of the AZ vaccine ?