Do You Have Sympathy for Older People Who Are Broke?

selfishnarcissistman on 10/10/2021 - 20:05
Last edited 13/10/2021 - 20:00 by 2 other users

Do you have any sympathy for older people say 60 plus who are financially insecure in other words broke?

I recently met a older couple in their late 60's living in a small caravan in a caravan park up on the NSW Central Coast, they are relatively fit and I don't know their circumstances but he was complaining he couldn't get food parcels sent to him like the younger people do in this lockdown and how they can't afford a car.

Doesn't look like they have any disability and I was going to ask if he had worked .

I gather they are around 67 because he said he recently changed over to the old age pension and gets rent supplement for the rent in the park

They complained about the noise and drunks in the park especially at night and drunks walking past, their van is situated on the low fence line where the public footpath is nearby so I did feel sorry for them to have to put up with that in this time of their life, they hate it where they live and waiting for a Department of Housing house

Putting these people aside what about others that age group who are broke, do you have any empathy or not? You must remember also superannuation only came in about 1990 /91 and the big recession in Australia 91-94 where over a million unemployed so everyone wasn't lucky along with in some cases 21% interest rates!

Take into account some people have had Monday to Friday basic wage jobs ..but…..looking at the other side still in the last 20 years times have been much much better with compulsory Super and high employment

Financial

Comments

      • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 08:27

        Depending on lifestyle, for some people it can actually provide what they want

        he also gets free rent

        So lifestyle actually has nothing to do with it. If he didn't have such a generous mate he'd be spending 60-80% of his welfare on housing like the rest of pensioners with no assets.

        He is just very lucky.

        • acersaurus on 14/10/2021 - 08:38

          He is lucky but it's not necessary for pensioners to spend 60-80% if they are willing to move to an affordable regional city, take the below rental at $200 a week. They also get rent assistance. With rent assistance it would take about 36% of a single pensioners weekly income of $554 to fund a $200/week rental - so would be doable for my dad while maintaining current spending level. Mainly comes down to lifestyle.

          2/45 Otway Street South, Ballarat East, Vic 3350 https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-ballarat+eas…

          A key reason why a lot of pensioners do badly is they don't want to move to an affordable area.

          • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 09:14
            +1

            @acersaurus: I am aware what pensioners get. I said housing costs and not just rent. You need to factor in bond costs moving costs and utilities/bills.

            Casually pointing out that old people should move potentially 100s of KMs away from their current lives and support networks to live in a regional centre isn't really a solution. The massive hit from being away from family/friends what they know, would be pretty big, but many aren't as able bodied either and would benefit from being near medical services that have short waiting lists and competitively priced.

            • acersaurus on 14/10/2021 - 09:30

              @serpserpserp: I'm not saying that older renters "should" do anything. I'm simply saying it's possible. It is certainly something I would consider if I was 100% pension reliant and in the context or the pension amount.

              Centrelink has a function of providing loans for people for moving/bond costs for those who have no savings.

              Ballarat has good medical services and a decent vline service to melbourne.

              • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 09:41

                @acersaurus: Centrelink can't fund your bond, but some state government services do. Again same with moving costs.

                Ballarat like Bendigo has adequate medical services, just don't get any chronic or major illnesses that require constant, multiple specialist attention with lots of pathology and imaging requirements. You'll see then just how different the timeframe is with access to appropriate care.

  • Cheeper on 11/10/2021 - 02:58
    +21

    Over 70 here. I meet and know people of all ages in financial difficulty all the time.
    Quite often it has been bought about by constantly making flippant choices with their finances and employment.

    I knew of someone who inherited a house but over time lost it through taking out loans against the value of the property and not being able to repay them. The money went on having a good time. They are now constantly on the search for cheap accommodation.
    Sympathy… none as they still have not changed.

    It is all about priorities… some people think a tattoo, booze, drugs, a top end phone or just living it up are the main things in life. They are free to choose that but they should not go whinging later on in life when reality comes home to roost.
    There are some who suffer financial hardship through no fault of their own and they should get more assistance but trying to separate the genuine ones from the self inflicted ones is a hard task.

    FYI. I think a SINGLE aged pensioner gets around $500 per week plus rent assistance (all tax free) if they qualify plus a heap of other benefits, free rego, licence, discounts on utilities and public transport just to name a few.
    If you own your own home and put money aside for bills, repairs, etc then they should be able to get by ok.

    • ihbh on 11/10/2021 - 07:42
      +2

      they should be able to get by ok

      In a low interest rate environment, the pension is a huge income relative to those that have to fund their retirement and the capital base they need to generate low risk income.

      • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 09:31

        "funding" your retirement shouldn't mean keeping your capital base intact while living off the interest.

        If you own your own home, then you don't need much cash right? Seems to be what most are saying on this forum.

        It's funny how self funded retirees complain about how good the pension is, well guess what? You are welcome to spend up your capital and use that pension if you need it too! If it is so good then it should be a part of everyone's plan! ;)

        • ihbh on 14/10/2021 - 11:26

          Not disputing in a low interest rate environment, you need to tap into your capital base, if you have one.

          If the pension was a universal income then that would make it more interesting.

          well guess what? You are welcome to spend up your capital and use that pension if you need it too! If it is so good then it should be a part of everyone's plan! ;)

          Many self funded retirees are independent and have never needed to rely on handouts so it wouldn't be part of their plan, and is irresponsible if they were to wastefully spend their capital base to have access to the pension.

          • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 15:15

            @ihbh: Many many people on the pension are independent too and have never relied on "handouts" either. But lucky for them this safety net is there.

            I was joking about spending all your money. But isn't it great we live in a country where that option is possible.

            • ihbh on 14/10/2021 - 16:22

              @serpserpserp:

              great we live in a country where that option is possible

              Yep.

              … but the population is aging and we're living longer so there will be challenges in the future.

              • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 16:32

                @ihbh: Luckily we pay high taxes. Maybe if we focused less on submarines and more on social housing and universal income we might be fine.

    • hoey888 on 11/10/2021 - 19:40
      +3

      For singles, the fortnightly maximum payment rate is $967.50, including Pension Supplement ($71.20) and Energy Supplement ($14.10).

      For each member of a couple, the fortnightly maximum payment rate is $729.30, including Pension Supplement ($53.70) and Energy Supplement ($10.60).

      Source: Services Australia

    • Griffindinho on 12/10/2021 - 16:06
      +3

      Wise old boomer, ill take your advice as a 28 year old young male.

    • serpserpserp on 14/10/2021 - 09:24

      If you own your own home

      While the majority of pensioners do own their own home. I think you have to have some compassion for the ones that don't. For that small minority (think it is less than 15%) the pension doesn't cut it for them to be able to live in a 1 bedder in a capital city. No matter if it is 5km or 50km from the city. They should have access to more rent assistance.

  • morse on 11/10/2021 - 03:24
    +17

    Sure, I feel sympathy and sometimes empathy for people in unfortunate circumstances irrespective of if they could have prevented those circumstances. There’s so many reasons people can end up without much money when older. Maybe they lost a home and didn’t have insurance, maybe their children took money from them, maybe the have a gambling problem or just had low incomes or didn’t manage their money well.

    Sometimes I even help through my professional role eg writing a letter to public housing if there is additional information about the circumstances that might be relevant to their priority or refer to financial counselling. Sometimes people are eligible for things they don’t realise they are in terms of assistance.

    It seems like it would be unhealthy for me as a person to think about whether someone is worthy of my thoughts. I reckon it would do more harm myself over anything else, ie. negative or judgemental thinking is damaging to the person doing it. Compassion feels good in my experience.

    • kiitos on 11/10/2021 - 09:32
      +3

      That last paragraph is good advice

    • selfishnarcissistman on 11/10/2021 - 11:47
      -1

      exactly great point,dont give let anyone in your thoughts unless theres some benefit to you,great point and i have kept it

      • Kangal on 11/10/2021 - 19:32

        Well, it is somewhat narcissistic and selfish to think that way.
        You need to have a healthy balance of selfish thinking and selfless thinking.

        Healthy
        (ie/ I should apply for that better job without informing my employer)
        (ie/ I should not put my feet on this train seat, it might dirty someone's pants)
        vs
        Unhealthy
        (ie/ I should get my boss fired so I can get his promotion)
        (ie/ I should help that old lady off the train to her bus, even though I'll be late for my meeting)

      • ThadtheChad on 12/10/2021 - 20:04
        +2

        I think that was the exact opposite of what Morse was trying to say (unless I'm misreading your statement).

        Their point was that it is always better to have compassion and withold judgement - harbouring uncharitable or negative thoughts is detrimental to the psyche of the thinker.

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 11/10/2021 - 04:08
    +8

    People should stop focusing on getting rich so that they can buy more and better things. Your value to the earth isn't based on what you do in your lifetime. What matters is how you treat the earth once you've been brought into it through no fault of your own. Minimising your footprint on the earth might deliver a lot more good to the planet than working for a big 4 bank, selling the latest electronics or "stimulating the economy".

    I do have sympathy for those older people that only see value in their lives through their perceived status, and then spend their twilight years judging others on the things they have spent their own lifetime being self-conscious about.

    • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 12:14
      +2

      "Your value on earth"

      Based on what?

      Suffering on earth where the big companies don't care and will benefit, for what, some imaginary earth credits that mean nothing when you die?

      • peterpeterpumpkin on 11/10/2021 - 14:13
        +4

        Based on nothing. Like everything else. It's just a guiding principle as an alternative to infinite economic growth.

        As a nihilist I can't really deliver on "meaning" when you die. Does a long life have more meaning? If you kill yourself and rid yourself of "suffering" have you achieved "meaning"? If you kill those that bring you suffering before you die have you achieved meaning? You might be reducing "footprint" at the same time, depending on how you measure that (I agree, earth credits are imaginary). At the end of the day you're just made up of a non-constant, ever-changing collection of atoms. Your existence in the universe is insignificant, with the earth's full collection of atoms at any one time not far behind.

        Humans aren't born with an authoritative instruction manual. If someone decides to pull themselves out of economic competition and work the system to simply "get by" should we silence them when they complain of hardship? Imprison them? Kill them? Should we work together as a society to force them to participate?

        I'm not saying meaninglessness is a solution to human anxiety. Drugs and religion wouldn't have been so successful in human history otherwise.

        • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 15:39

          Or don't do what random people on the internet want you to do.

      • So lo on 14/10/2021 - 08:08

        Earth credits mean nothing to you when you die, you are correct, but they can mean a whole lot to the people left behind. If the mind is only set on what I can experience and what I can achieve it's a 0 sum game.

        If the mind is set on leaving a legacy, then the game continues when you're gone. And that's how some people build generational wealth meanwhile others never start, or worse, piss away the opportunity that was gifted to them.

        • samfisher5986 on 14/10/2021 - 10:05

          You can also spend your entire life being poor on purpose and putting all your time into treating planet earth instead of enjoying yourself just for Nestle and all the other big companies to ruin it, and then if that doesn't ruin planet earth enough, China will do it for us.

          In my opinion its best to set a good, reasonable example and force big companies and countries with out of control populations to change their ways.

    • Adz81 on 11/10/2021 - 19:50

      Kind of this… I made a decision seven years ago that saw me take a $120k/year pay cut… But I'm less stressed, my mortgage repayments are $100/week (sure, the capital won't grow, but there's a rental shortage of I want to go down that path), and I'm working with family, which can be excruciating, but at the end of the day is more rewarding.

  • SydneySwan on 11/10/2021 - 08:07
    +15

    Some people go through their whole lives doing insecure low-paid work and renting and basically living week-to-week. Not everyone has the chance to earn good money and buy a house.

  • Raulioli8810 on 11/10/2021 - 08:37
    +4

    That's so sad. I feel for anyone who's broke and or in poverty.

  • Boogerman on 11/10/2021 - 09:10
    -7

    If they don't vote Greens or for an independent with both serious environmental & social justice policies/concerns, zero sympathy.
    Remember, the older you are the more cumulatively you have used the environment as your personal toilet & the greater wealth inequality has become.

  • MontyMacaw on 11/10/2021 - 09:20
    -2

    This post should be taken down. It has a premise of vilifying a minority based on ageism.

    • Jackson on 11/10/2021 - 16:54
      +2

      It definitely vilifies a minority, the two people who live in a caravan with no car that have to deal with hooligans on one side and people looking down their nose at them on the other 😂

  • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2021 - 09:28
    +12

    This the same OP who posted about a "relative" needing a $40 grocery budget or how his new partner said he is gullible and has been on the couch all week.

    100% he is projecting his own insecurities about his own financial success (or lack thereof) in his middle age. Hilarious.

    • buckethat on 13/10/2021 - 17:57

      Ah.. read his other post.. all makes sense now

  • screensaver on 11/10/2021 - 09:31
    +2

    I have seen plenty of people waste their money on the pokies, I knew a guy that inherited a house in Stanmore and blew the lot in 12 months on things like pokies.

    • KozieSeller on 11/10/2021 - 13:51
      +1

      Alot of those boomers love sitting on them pokie machines, 100% their fault.

  • tabitha731 on 11/10/2021 - 09:45
    +3

    I generally dont have sympathy for those who squander their money, especially in the past year when the govt allowed low incomes ppl to take $20k or $10k ( can’t remember) out of their superannuation to use during the initial covid lockdown. Most of them took the money out of their super, just so they could have money, some claimed to have intentions of putting it towards a home deposit. But all of them will struggle in their old age with not having enough money to survive on…. And that’s their own doing… immediate gratification of having money in ur pocket and forgoing your future responsibilities to yourself, is sheer stupidity. Reap what you sow.

    • selfishnarcissistman on 11/10/2021 - 11:52

      good point about the Super

    • MITM on 11/10/2021 - 15:49
      +1

      Super increases over the years were in lieu of pay rises (helps govt/RBA maintain low inflation). Meantime CoL goes up and wage earner goes backwards until the opportunity arrives to boost savings via super redemption. Hopefully used sensibly to pay down debt or keep on hand as a buffer (unemployment). Unfortunately they missed one of the greatest upticks in the market - but who'd have guessed it when reports were of a looming crisis.

    • baldur on 11/10/2021 - 15:58
      +2

      How do you know the majority wasted that money?

  • knasty on 11/10/2021 - 10:32
    +1

    Looking at the issue from the other end of the age spectrum I'm very conscious that when I was at primary and high school there was little in the way of practical maths/finance taught as part of the mainstream syllabus. I haven't introduced my kids to Ozbargain (yet) but am certainly keen for them to be financially literate from an early age. It doesn't guarantee success but certainly gives them a better chance.

    • MITM on 11/10/2021 - 15:58

      Totally agree with this comment.
      Imagine if everyone learnt personal finance and investing instead of a second language at high school. Why learn a second language when the world speaks English - but money is central to living.
      Anyway - it's getting better now with YouTube and podcasts distributing the info (which was previously tightly held).

    • 91rs on 11/10/2021 - 17:44
      +1

      By "little" you mean none?
      There was nothing that helpful about real life taught in school, if that's budgeting, tax, investment, about mortgages and other finance matters etc that you will face in the very near future of leaving school for many.
      Unless it was handed down (and was correct) from family or for some reason as a teen you thought you must learn about all that then you were on your own.
      Its setup for failure and for banks to prey on those who aren't clued up enough (or some that don't care) and will take high interest loans, credit cards and they will be behind the game from the very start.

    • wimphrel on 13/10/2021 - 18:28

      That's interesting - at the current age of 35 - I still recall distinctly a P&I subject in year 10 maths (NSW Syllabus).

      That's where I learnt all my home loan / P&I calculation stuff, and has probably been the most useful math subject I've had (even after uni).

      Though, if you didn't pay attention to factorisation & geometric / arithmetic progression topics in year 9…. you won't understand anything past simple interest.

  • Lunarboogie on 11/10/2021 - 10:44

    I don’t judge or criticise older Australians on the breadline and I am happy to pay my taxes to provide them with a safety net. But it does speak to their poor judgement, a series of irresponsible life choices and an inability to plan for the future. The important point for younger people is to heed their lessons and try to make sure it doesn’t happen to you.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 11/10/2021 - 12:57
      +2

      "But it does speak to their poor judgement, a series of irresponsible life choices and an inability to plan for the future. "…. That's a lot of judging considering you don't judge

      • Peck on 11/10/2021 - 13:07

        A friend (Couple) bought a coffee shop business. It was going well, but 2 people working long hours. Some time later a large coffee chain opened a store nearby. My friends' business went bust!

      • Lunarboogie on 11/10/2021 - 13:39

        It may have come across harder nosed than I had intended. I wanted to convey the sentiment that generally, if you fail to take care of yourself in a country like ours than the blame should, unfortunately, be sheeted back to the individual. Any person born with all the opportunities that we are blessed with and still messes up reflects poor judgment somewhere along the line. I'm not saying they should be drawn and quartered but at the end of the day, it was their decision (or lack of one whichever the case may be) that caused them to be in the predicament they are. I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm talking about the reasonable man and woman.

        • Jackson on 11/10/2021 - 16:58
          -2

          What about the reasonable man and man, woman and woman, or unreasonable man and woman?

        • singlemalt72 on 12/10/2021 - 09:40
          +1

          Well, that's a pretty shitty attitude to have - fact is that in a population not everybody can be successful/rich/comfortable due to a myriad of reasons.

          Not everybody will have a dream marriarge and stay together till death
          Not everybody will invest smartly/safely, nor have the spare income for investment
          Not everyone has the ability to achieve a high-paying job
          Some times bad luck happens through no fault of an individual
          Health concerns can be genetic, not based on life choices

          I'm more concerned if those who have been successful and set themselves are paying their fair share of tax to provide the safety net.

  • Cletus vandamme on 11/10/2021 - 10:56
    +1

    It's easy to judge people but we have no idea on the circumstances they've had. Do I still do it, of course I do. However there are plenty of mitigating factors on how they've come into the positions they're in. Just because they've worked there whole lives and don't have money doesn't mean they've been wreckless maybe they have had to support family, had illness where they couldn't work or plenty of other reasons, divorces being a huge one for most. Life doesn't always turn out the way we expect.

  • afah0447 on 11/10/2021 - 11:07
    +7

    Any Boomer who isn't disabled, a recently arrived migrant or spent significant time in prison has no excuse for not being at least 'comfortable' and should take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves where they went wrong.

    They had more opportunity than any generation in history. Jobs were plentiful, stable/secure, well paid and offered pensions, real estate was affordable on any full-time job but if even that was unobtainable public housing back then was more available and higher quality vis-a-vis today, public heathcare was well funded, university was free, taxation rates were more equitable (the rich and corps actually paid their fair share of tax to enable a decent standard of living for all). I could go on and on about the advantages they received that subsequent generations could only dream of and quite rightly are now are pissed-off at!

    Now some Boomers like the complain that they are poor due to them not have had enough time in the superannuation system. Incorrect. By that stage in their life they should have already been in home ownership and had some money saved for retirement, or at the very least when super was introduced started adding additional as the clocking would of been ticking.

    So in answer to your question - 'Do you have any sympathy for older people say 60 plus who are financially insecure in other words broke?' - none whatsoever.

    • selfishnarcissistman on 11/10/2021 - 11:48
      +1

      your a hard man lol

    • 91rs on 11/10/2021 - 17:50
      +6

      Good to see things are so black and white with you and it's just simply stupid people who should sit and really take a good look at themselves.
      Amazing to think that every single boomer was in the same position to take full advantage of everything on offer and really screw the system and make themselves a fortune… how foolish of them all, almost like everyone has different lives that turn out very differently for thousands of reasons.
      I'm sure you're fun at parties.

    • Grunntt on 12/10/2021 - 08:29
      +1

      Looks like I will have to go ask my brother about all of those advantages he had when he managed to survive that small event that he was shipped off to in Vietnam.
      I'm sure he he is so pleased to hear that he is seen to have been so 'comfortable' and with so much 'opportunity'.

      That must be the 'opportunity' that really set him, many of his dead friends, and their families up so well.

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 12/10/2021 - 23:46
        +2

        "that he was shipped off to in Vietnam"- if he was genuinely damaged by the experience then, "yes". If "no" then that, on its own, is no excuse. Have a rellie who went to 'Nam….now a home owner, stable family and well off in a middle income way - without help from any rich family on their return.
        ….and did see "dead friends" but that is off topic here, though a shit of a thing for their families, with a government (of either stripe) that doesn't respect that ultimate sacrifice.

        • Grunntt on 13/10/2021 - 09:49
          +2

          It's good to hear that your one relative managed to come through the experience relatively unscathed.
          Unfortunately that experience is very different to my brother's and many, many of his friends and families.
          The post that I responded to that started with..

          Any Boomer who isn't disabled, a recently arrived migrant or spent significant time in prison has no excuse for not being at least 'comfortable' and should take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves where they went wrong.

          …is the reason for my response. Many individuals seem to have absolutely no idea what many people have had to go through and somehow feel entitled to pass judgement on others.
          Even your comment about "if he was genuinely damaged" can be seen as pretty insulting to others when you allude to some damage not being genuine.
          I'm sure my brother would love to hear you explain how anyone he knows is not genuine (and how you feel qualified to decide that).

          The point of my post was that some here feel that they have every right to judge others without fully understanding many of the reasons for that individuals' circumstances. Empathy seems to have died a rapid death.

          • havebeerbelywillsumo on 14/10/2021 - 23:06
            -1

            @Grunntt: "allude to some damage not being genuine" - no direct allusion intended at all- Your post didn't indicate so answer was strictly "this or that situation".

            As the human race tends to being sly IMHO so I disagree with "pretty insulting to others", just calling a spade a spade - again not directed personally, just a generalisation…………only need to look at the COVID situation and behaviours for generalisation support IMO.

            Personally don't doubt the existence of Agent Orange trauma, battle fatigue/shock etc but there are always people who want to milk what they see as a good thing, as there are governments of either stripe who want to call for help then not pay the resulting costs.

            • Grunntt on 16/10/2021 - 12:16

              @havebeerbelywillsumo:

              "allude to some damage not being genuine" - no direct allusion intended at all

              Try reading your sentence but without the word "genuine'. By placing that word there you are inherently implying some are not genuine.

              Someone using the excuse of 'just calling a spade a spade' is someone who seems to believe they can say whatever they like and pretend it's the others' fault for being insulted.
              The rest of your most recent post basically reflects on your poor opinion of anyone who doesn't meet your personal standards and trying to hide behind 'generalisations' to excuse your opinions of individuals.

              If your opinions are based on such as

              Personally don't doubt the existence of Agent Orange trauma, battle fatigue/shock etc

              I suggest you may need to actually learn more about the real life experiences of those involved.

              Looks like actual knowledge of even recent history has died along with empathy.

  • jaypee06 on 11/10/2021 - 11:37
    +2

    I think luck plays a big part in how well off we are. I am fortunate to have the opportunity to learn from the previous generation's mistakes, and to have a wealth of information at my fingertips to make my financial decisions. I can't definitively say I'd be better off financially than them if I grew up in their time. Life sounds like it was a lot harder back then, and my precious hands are good for nothing but bashing keyboard shortcuts in Excel.

    • selfishnarcissistman on 11/10/2021 - 11:51

      nope.lifes harder now you mark my words.

      i would hate to be young again

      • wekimekigugudan on 11/10/2021 - 23:53

        hate to be young again

        hate to be carefree again?

      • tonka on 14/10/2021 - 10:59

        Kids don't even have to press a button on the remote anymore, or go to a drive through for their fast food. Not even any effort required to mind manners or be polite. The main hardship is they have to deal with each other to socialise.

        • So lo on 15/10/2021 - 07:44

          Not even any effort required to mind manners or be polite.

          Right, because children are the ones who decide upon the level of politeness is required in their upbringing. Yep, definitely their fault.

          • tonka on 15/10/2021 - 11:07

            @So lo: Your comment might be relevant if the subject was about assigning fault. Instead we were discussing difficulty of environment.

            • So lo on 15/10/2021 - 12:05

              @tonka: You're right, I mistakenly jumped to the argument over whose fault the degrading state of society lays with.

              I do hold the belief that manners and politeness are a standard held to children by their parents regardless of what society is like outside the home.

              I meet plenty of respectful juniors, and plenty of shit heads in training. As I always have throughout my life, so I don't think anything has changed in that regard.

    • Adrian Player on 13/10/2021 - 18:23

      Luck comes a lot quicker if you choose to work 60+ hours a week, buy a cheapie reliable car and move outside a city centre to cheaper owner occupied housing. The harder you work the luckier you get.

  • kalithreaver on 11/10/2021 - 11:57
    +8

    Yes.

    I grew up with a single mum who raised my bother and i. she has no assets and lives on pension. she did her best to support us and is pretty money smart with what she gets. biggest issue is rent which is ridiculous. shes in this situation due to some choices from her but mostly financial choices from my dad, and the divorce. i do pitty her and others as its not an easy life with no money and its harder to crawl out of that hole if you have no money.

    • JimB on 11/10/2021 - 13:48

      No judgement, but just wondering if you have offered to assist her?

      e.g. suggested she move in with you.

      • kalithreaver on 12/10/2021 - 07:55
        +2

        we would if she needed it or was in trouble, but probably as a temporary thing. we see her often but if she lived with us im pretty sure both sides would go crazy.

        • JimB on 12/10/2021 - 09:10
          +1

          Good to know.. hopefully she'll be ok and her rent doesn't increase.

  • justgooddeals on 11/10/2021 - 12:00
    +5

    I have sympathy for anybody who is in financial strife. No matter their age. But when your older it’s got to be harder to come back from, say bankruptcy, then when your younger more energetic and just have more enthusiasm, energy and pep to re-start all over again

  • lonewolf on 11/10/2021 - 12:13
    +7

    JEEZ, I am shocked at seeing this here. Sure if you knew the people were rich and spent all their money on drugs and booze and hookers, partying it up or something crazy like that. But there are a lot of people out there who are in jobs that dont make much money, they have basically had to live pay cheque to pay cheque and hence dont have much money saved up besides their pension. There are lots of jobs that are Below the average salaray and considering how prices have zoomed up in Australia…..As well as in divorce usually the Male gets taken to the cleaners. One of my work colleagues had this happen to him when he was getting close to retirement. She not only took the house and car as well as a lot of the other assets, she also took a large chunk of his super that he had been saving up for decades. He had to continue working after that and couldnt retire as he had hoped.

    • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 12:24
      -3

      I disagree.

      Without kids even minimum wage, especially with dual income is plenty.

      Divorce is pretty fair unless you have kids, which is a personal choice.

      • lonewolf on 11/10/2021 - 12:34
        +5

        Ok i guess you havent been divorced. Divorce is hardly ever fair even without kids and even if you only were married for a couple of years (and its usually the man who is disadvantaged as the system is still very archaic as well as lot of times Men arent as prepared or thought it out before letting the other partner know). I have seen quite a few divorces as well as been divorced myself. The only times its fair is if both parties are able to basically agree with each other (without getting lawyers involved) and arent out to just get as much as they want for themselves. I have seen that as well and then it can work out quite evenly but otherwise its usually one or both parties just trying to get as much for themselves as possible. Minimum wage is not much at all when you have to pay living expenses. And also i guess that means only the rich should have kids?

        • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 15:45
          -4

          Divorce is basically 50/50 without kids, but what is "50/50" will change based on opinion, people often don't understand how it works and generally think 50/50 is whats mine is mine and whats yours is yours.

          Yes your partner can take it to court and burn lawyer money and get 50/50, but you both lose money that way.

          Minimum wage is plenty to pay living expenses, its up to you to make good financial choices.

          I have a family member who owns three houses on minimum wage.

          • lonewolf on 11/10/2021 - 18:43
            +2

            @samfisher5986: Sorry its not 50/50, Most divorces without kids have not been 50/50 from what i have seen. Mine definitely was not 50/50. And people know what 50/50 is, its 50% of all assets combined. But sorry thats not how it works in reality. Due to society and archaic family court systems it doesnt work that way.

            • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 22:02

              @lonewolf: Again, this is without kids… its much more straight forward.

              • lonewolf on 11/10/2021 - 23:07

                @samfisher5986: I got divorced without kids, within 3 years of getting married. That was not the case. We both had similarly salaries.

                • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 23:59

                  @lonewolf: In your opinion which is biased… her friends might have thought it was fair, which is also biased.

                  What you define as 50/50 might not be what the court sees as 50/50. Just because they split the finances 60/40, it doesn't mean they aren't seeking a 50/50 split.

                  Sure you didn't have enough help to get what you deserved, but thats also not really relevent.

                  • lonewolf on 12/10/2021 - 01:29

                    @samfisher5986: And there in lies the problem, you automatically assume everyone is biased and everyone will want their way and everyone is this and everyone is that and you have garnered that without knowing the full story.

                    And thats exactly why you cant understand why there can be people without money without fitting them into your narrative.

                    • samfisher5986 on 12/10/2021 - 10:57

                      @lonewolf: Thats silly, everyone is biased, especially in a divorce.

                      They even did a study that found that the average couple felt like they both did more chores then their partner.

                      There's no reason for a court to be unfair, thats the whole point of court.

                      If you felt your ex partner did something dodgy/illegal/sneaky to get more then their fair share, that is different and not relevant to gender.

                      • lonewolf on 12/10/2021 - 11:04

                        @samfisher5986: Sorry thats not accurate at all. And thats my point, without knowing the case you cant make that assumption. Sure with all things being equal and the situation being a "typical" situation, people are generally a bit or a lot biased but again there are so many variables in the level of biased. I know people who got divorced who wanted to be fair and even to the point they were more than willing to give more than 50% to the other person because they didnt want to screw them over. And i know cases on the other end of that.

                        In my case and i wont go into too much details, but I was being abused physically, emotionally and financially. So what happened would be different from people who werent etc. at the end of the day you cant possibly understand or comprehend the full reasons why people are broke without actually knowing what happened in their lives. Are there people who threw away their finances sure and there would be many other reasons why people are broke.

                        • samfisher5986 on 12/10/2021 - 12:16

                          @lonewolf: You only reinforce my point. Someone might give more then 50% as a nice gesture, where the person receiving might think they are getting what they deserve.

                          From your post it doesn't like like the court was at fault for things being unfair but rather its something your ex has done, what your ex did to you is not gender specific, it happens to both.

                          • lonewolf on 12/10/2021 - 12:24

                            @samfisher5986: Actually you missed my point entirely. And the courts arent even because they do look at gender when it comes to DV or lack thereof and there are assumptions made and extra proof required.

                            • samfisher5986 on 12/10/2021 - 12:46

                              @lonewolf: Again, if they made false accusations, that happens with both genders.

                              • lonewolf on 12/10/2021 - 13:43
                                +1

                                @samfisher5986: Not about false accusations, more about society and courts and archaic laws and ways of thinking. But anyway point is without you knowing details, you cant assume or know the full story. And that was what the whole thing was about.

                                • samfisher5986 on 12/10/2021 - 14:30
                                  -1

                                  @lonewolf: But I'm not claiming to know your story, I'm simply pointing out that courts are designed to be fair, nothing is perfect however.

                                  • lonewolf on 12/10/2021 - 18:12
                                    +2

                                    @samfisher5986: Not really, Courts are designed around the societal rules / laws. Slavery was once law…Till people fought against it and courts had to change to adapt to what was a newer society with new take on life. Courts have not done that yet with Family courts and divorce, they are stuck in the days where only Men worked and made money and women didnt so after a divorce women didnt have a way of surviving without taking money off the Men. Luckily There is a lot of talk around this matter both from Men and women fighting for new family court laws.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 11/10/2021 - 12:43
    +4

    I'd suggest that as nobody can know other peoples' life stories or details of their financial situation, then no one is in a position to form a judgement either way.

    To do so would be selfish and narcissistic… Oh, I see op self diagnosed 😁

  • Peck on 11/10/2021 - 12:48
    +9

    I do have a lot of empathy for them. I know Pensioners who have very little money left after paying rents. There is not much dignity or happiness in being perpetually broke.
    Whilst I consider myself now as being luck, I know well struggling to make ends meet, and the depressing feeling of having very little in my wallet other than moths.
    Up until a year ago I lived next door to a lovely hard working couple with kids. It took all of one income just to pay their rent. They were very disheartened at never being able to save enough for a deposit.
    I ALWAYS think, "there but for the grace of God goes me."
    Some comments here are very heartless.

    • Lunarboogie on 11/10/2021 - 13:45

      If they are frittering away half their income in rent than that is a poor choice as far as I am concerned. We'd all like to live in the comfy north shore but if we can't afford to, then it's time to move elsewhere until you can. You can't knowingly elect rental stress and then cry poor. This is the kind of poor judgment I referred to in my earlier post and was criticised for. People need to live within their means.

      • 91rs on 11/10/2021 - 17:58
        +2

        Quite the assumption about the rental situation.
        Maybe moving further away from their current (low paying) employment isn't ideal due to transport issues, additional cost of transport from a further location, the lack of public transport from those far off suburbs if they don't drive or its not an affordable option, the need to be able to pickup\dropoff kids, or just not wanting to spend 4 hours a day commuting to barely scrape by when you can barely scrape by while living a little closer to work and schools?
        If it wasn't rental stress it would be another financial stress to replace it for many.

    • 82norm on 11/10/2021 - 14:54
      +1

      Totally agree. You never know what is around the corner that could take you off course and another trajectory. Sure, the saying, always save up for a rainy day maybe true, but things happen in life that can unexpectedly strip all of your life savings and leave you destitute - all of which maybe no fault of your own.

      Empathy doesn’t cost anything and for all those harsh critics out there, by geez prey karma doesn’t come back at ya. If it’s does, you may remember your post. Peace.

  • misu p on 11/10/2021 - 13:10
    +9

    I believe the most important choices in life are not yours to make. I got lucky enough to be born smart (through no fault of my own) in a stable house with good parents that taught me good things. I was again lucky enough to have good friends growing up (probably not luck but the people that were available to me to be my friends). I was put on the path to success before I had any choices to make.

    Did I make life influencing choices? of course I did however those choices were heavily influenced by the factors above. Also any other choices I would have made would have ended up being fine too (who knows maybe I made all the wrong choices every time).

    Interesting statistics about hockey players: https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?t=76

    The entire video is interesting about luck and how much it plays into our lives.

    So my answer is yes, I do feel sympathy for them no matter how they got there.

  • tomcat83 on 11/10/2021 - 13:12
    +4

    I genuinely feel sorry for anyone that needs to live on the age pension. I'm sure that wasn't their plan in life.
    I'm 37 and maxxing out my voluntary contributions to super each year with the plan to never rely on the pension but still think we (as a society) should be providing a higher baseline to pensioners.

    • MITM on 11/10/2021 - 16:30
      +1

      Well, yes, a comfortable pension was promised to an older generation - super didn't exist but part of your taxes would pay for your pension - after all, on average you'd only live a few years past retirement. But then the goal posts shifted, people live longer, fewer children born, citizens expecting more from their (socialist) governments or governments bought their citizens votes with expensive promises.

  • squaredonut on 11/10/2021 - 13:39

    At OP, put this way, every person goes through various things in their lives, you can never guarantee what it is that they went through until you've experienced it yourself.

    The problem with society is everyone wants to judge and compare. Even if they blew it on holidays when they were young, I guess there's nothing wrong there. They aren't entirely a harm to society, sure they eat off welfare, but I would like to think they contributed and paid taxes when they worked.

    I'm in my late 30's now, and I think overtime my personality and my views on people have changed significantly. When I had no kids, I would judge why are these parents not doing XYZ with their kids, but now I have kids, oh boy it's a different story.

    I wouldn't say your thought process is bad, I probably would think the same when I was younger, but now I feel like everyone lives their lives their own way. It's also kind of vital to have this balance in society. Imagine if every single person were aggressive savers, investors, and not a single person would spend their money or make bad decisions, then you'd be competing with a lot more people. Things all happen for a reason.

    I look at really rich people who would spend lavishly on the most trivial things, but I won't judge them, either their luck or pure hard work has paid off, and they can live the life they choose to.

  • ozbjunkie on 11/10/2021 - 14:19
    +3

    I try and have both sympathy and empathy for all people.

    Especially old people.

    And broke people.

    And anyone needy.

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