Do You Have Sympathy for Older People Who Are Broke?

selfishnarcissistman on 10/10/2021 - 20:05
Last edited 13/10/2021 - 20:00 by 2 other users

Do you have any sympathy for older people say 60 plus who are financially insecure in other words broke?

I recently met a older couple in their late 60's living in a small caravan in a caravan park up on the NSW Central Coast, they are relatively fit and I don't know their circumstances but he was complaining he couldn't get food parcels sent to him like the younger people do in this lockdown and how they can't afford a car.

Doesn't look like they have any disability and I was going to ask if he had worked .

I gather they are around 67 because he said he recently changed over to the old age pension and gets rent supplement for the rent in the park

They complained about the noise and drunks in the park especially at night and drunks walking past, their van is situated on the low fence line where the public footpath is nearby so I did feel sorry for them to have to put up with that in this time of their life, they hate it where they live and waiting for a Department of Housing house

Putting these people aside what about others that age group who are broke, do you have any empathy or not? You must remember also superannuation only came in about 1990 /91 and the big recession in Australia 91-94 where over a million unemployed so everyone wasn't lucky along with in some cases 21% interest rates!

Take into account some people have had Monday to Friday basic wage jobs ..but…..looking at the other side still in the last 20 years times have been much much better with compulsory Super and high employment

Financial

Comments

  • jrvb42 on 11/10/2021 - 14:41
    +4

    I definitely have sympathy. Life throws up all sorts of things that can leave someone hard up. The longer you live the more likely you are to strike one.
    Some things are self inflicted by gambling and the like but many are not.
    Without knowing circumstances and cause, it's hard to judge, and unless you're perfect, it's not appropriate to do so.
    Everyone is just trying to make their way in the world.
    Be grateful. Be compassionate.

  • pogichinoy on 11/10/2021 - 14:45

    Yes and no.

    I need to know their personal circumstances.

    e.g. if it was due to divorce, disability, etc then yes. But if it was due to drug addiction, alcoholism, laziness, etc then no.

  • Emerald Owl on 11/10/2021 - 14:48

    I don’t understand how they can’t afford a car. They would get free rego, their ctp would be low and a beater Mazda 2 would be fine.

    • idonotknowwhy on 11/10/2021 - 15:01

      Can I have like 5 bucks for the bus mate?

    • samfisher5986 on 11/10/2021 - 15:47

      The lottery isn't cheap and its more important obviously…

    • afah0447 on 13/10/2021 - 16:51
      +2

      This is true but i think the marketing/advertising industry has a lot to answer for in creating unrealistic desires in people.

      Essentially, they have created a constant environment in society that if you don't have/buy product X, society/the opposite sex will think you're a worthless piece of shit. Therefore you must buy product X even if it means heading into debt. The car industry is one of the worst offenders here as they are expensive to purchase and finance is easily available.

      I believe this situation is sending many people into financial distress, especially those with no financial literacy or those susceptible to social pressure to 'look good' or 'keep up with the Joneses'.

  • Nillionaire on 11/10/2021 - 15:38
    +2

    I am broke and do not have sympathy for myself

    • MITM on 11/10/2021 - 16:19
      +2

      Name checks out

  • LoserScott on 11/10/2021 - 16:14

    If the human achnowledges you as a human and respect sure, if not I'll reserve their rights until they have a accident and I'll try to save them and change their thinking.

    If nothing works probably not.

  • MITM on 11/10/2021 - 16:33
    +4

    Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!”

    ― Billy Connolly

    But seriously, OP is going to hurt when the day comes he falls off his high horse.

  • Pittyh on 11/10/2021 - 16:41

    Yeah stay away from those dirty people who don't have money, they will give you some kind of money disease where you will also lose it all. /s

    Plus they all have herpes /s

  • acersaurus on 11/10/2021 - 16:48
    +2

    Yes I have sympathy for poor people in general, nobody wants to be poor.

    The people you are talking about were part of a generation that had perhaps the best money making opportunities. But everyone's life is different, and some people end up in a bad way because of bad luck. There are many forms of bad luck such as having parents that don't give you good guidance in life, medical bad luck, divorce, having worked in an industry where people became redundant - perhaps that happened to them. Not everyone in that generation is lucky.

    I'm general though I have more sympathy for young people, especially single parents. The future is not looking that great for young people. And anyone who gets the pension generally has the opportunity to get by not in poverty, particularly if willing to move to an area with cheap rent.

  • CalmLemons on 11/10/2021 - 19:27
    +7

    I never was a religious person.

    I'm still not.

    However, I'm sure there are parts in religious texts that say, be kind to someone regardless and don't pass on judgement.

    Be kind and tolerant - that's all you need to think about.

    I'm sure they don't need or ask for your sympathy.

    • CrispyChrispy on 11/10/2021 - 19:28

      However, I'm sure there are parts in religious texts that say, be kind to someone regardless and don't pass on judgement.

      It's common courtesy. Treat others the way you want to be treated.

  • Bid Sniper on 11/10/2021 - 20:20
    +1

    I don't know the full story so have no right to pass judgement.

    However I think better financial literacy should be taught in schools and financial counselling should be freely available to people. Also gambling and pokies should be banned here.

  • druex on 11/10/2021 - 21:16
    +4

    A lot of people seem to be falling for the lie "If you have a go, you'll get a go."

    • afah0447 on 13/10/2021 - 16:59

      'A lot of people' - the Australian pubic have had to endure this type of neo-con drivel from the LNP for eight years!

      Don't forget the LNP attempted to ensure your retirement was going to have a lower standard of living by attempting to STOP the legislated increase in the superannuation guarantee this year from 9.5% to 10%.

  • IM-Cheap on 11/10/2021 - 21:35

    Of course I have sympathy, especially for those single parents or couples who had big families to raise. Birth control wasn't widely taught, neither was financial management.

    I'm a 35yr old with no kids - my mum had 4 by the time she was 30yrs old and went 8yrs without working a paid job, dads job was average salary. They never had much in savings and we lived pretty frugally. I wonder sometimes why they never got better jobs but I think they just never had the energy or resources.

    • cnmarine on 12/10/2021 - 00:50
      -4

      At 35 with no kids, they probably think they've had a better life than you lol

  • tonka on 11/10/2021 - 21:47

    I do if it's because they are paying exorbitant taxes because they are smokers. I know several who became addicted young when it wasn't a bad thing. They don't have the energy or passion as oldies to give it up. And they have no quality of life because of the tax. They are way past the point where they will die young because they smoke. There should be some kind of exemption for them.

    • havebeerbelywillsumo on 13/10/2021 - 00:08

      Yeah but they had the chance to stop while they were younger, the info that it was bad has been available for ages now, and even way back when it was far cheaper it was still possible to see that your money was literally just going up in smoke THEY made the choice not to stop….their current age is irrelevant IMHO.

      • tonka on 23/10/2021 - 19:19

        Are you someone who has given up a substance you were seriously addicted to? My Dad mostly died from depression because he couldn't give up smoking and felt a failure. No money, knew he should and couldn't. The government needs to stop exploiting addicts.

        • havebeerbelywillsumo on 24/10/2021 - 14:53
          +1

          "The government needs to stop exploiting addicts." YES!!!!

          Sorry about your dad, maybe my opinion is coloured by having a friend who did stop. I was lucky and didn't start.

          • tonka on 25/10/2021 - 14:41

            @havebeerbelywillsumo: Cheers. I always hated smoking as a kid but ended up being a chain smoker anyway. I reckon I was already addicted because of dad smoking (before it was known a bad thing). I tried for years and could not give up, then found the vapes and managed it that way and am so relieved seeing the price now (gave up vapes easily). I wish I could help my sister quit as she can't pay her mortgage, too bad the only thing that I know helped, vaping, is now illegal. Pensioners are paying $70 for a pack of cigarettes, if they didn't give up at $40 they won't at $100, they'll just lose their homes instead.

  • Cookiescream on 12/10/2021 - 00:17
    +4

    Why are judging people you know nothing about?

    Yes, I have sympathy for people who are broke.

    Not everyone has the same oportunities, education, chances and choices.

    Also, health! Big factor. Getting ill can destroy you physically, emotionally, financially.

  • Swiss-herb on 12/10/2021 - 00:45
    +5

    Saw heading and have resonating feelings at times as a healthcare worker. Empathy is something I try to do for everyone but realistically I just can't "feel" same amount of empathy for everyone.

    I see lots of people (of different ages) have complete disregard for their health. The outcome I see now is the consequences of years of poor choices. Some have insight, but a significant number of patients don't. Many who have poor health have absolutely no concept that they are in charge of their health. A lot of demands were made expecting things just get done quickly, easily, with 100% success for them like the staff bears full responsibility to fix their health. I have witnessed a lot of very poor behaviors. Also, if you tell them to do something for themselves, you can absolutely tell who are full of excuses. Many behaving the same with their finances—no concept that they are responsible and expect things to be done for them. Lack of responsibility extends to multiple aspects in their lives. Hence high association of poor health with low socioeconomic groups.

    There are some unfortunate people for sure. Some tries very hard no matter what circumstance they are dealt with. The system is there to help them, which is a very fortunate thing we have here. There is support for almost every aspect starting from the day you are born. In some countries there are no such thing as superannuation and everyone saved for their retirement.

    • MessyG on 12/10/2021 - 14:03
      -1

      As a healthcare worker you should also understand the impact of trauma on peoples health choices. That lack of concept that they are in charge of their health is most often the result of chronic childhood trauma.
      Your linkage of that lack of responsibility with their socioeconomic status is surprising, because you should know that low SES means higher rates of intergenerational trauma. "Poor choices" needs to be taken in the wider context of someones life and I highly recommend The Curbsiders podcast on Trauma Informed Care so that I can be spared the discomfort of ever seeing a post like this from a healthcare worker ever again.

      • Swiss-herb on 13/10/2021 - 12:09
        +1

        I don't think you can judge others with your own thoughts. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. You have not acknowledge the power of "choice" and hard work—I have seen people take control their lives with such. It can start small with any positive lifestyle change, saving $1, eating one healthy thing… There is respect for trauma as per my last paragraph. Somehow you didn't read it before you wrote your long message? Is there a reason why ? Because you nagged non-stop that I ignored that yet it was written so clearly?

        I think constantly neglecting that one has the power of making good choices in life is more painful to read. If you would like to talk about "sparing", seeing people writing such response sounded like you have 100 reasons to live horribly and not even one to make good choices for yourself. Ok. Yes. You can CHOOSE to believe in such. I respect you.

  • Aneurism on 12/10/2021 - 00:56
    +2

    There will be a lot of people who will have squandered their lives or savings on addictions and bad decisions. However a subset of people may have done as best they could and fell into mishap or misfortunate that might not easily have been navigated away from.

    Mental illness, badly timed accidents or sickness or of loved ones that they are carers for, loss of jobs at middle age, collapse of industry or small business, immigration/refugees, war, violence from partners or other factors may have come into their lives. Lots of things can go wrong in life and there will be some people who weren't forced to save superannuation

    Even now the COVID situation is having significant impact on peoples. Everyone will have a story about their lives. Some will choose to keep it to themselves out of fear of judgement or shame. Some might seek help from family. Others might have no family to turn to.

    It's usually best to just be kind and non judgemental where possible whether it is neighbours or strangers.

    That being said, there are also a bunch of whack jobs and crazies out there too, so always keep an even keel and tread with caution.

    • selfishnarcissistman on 12/10/2021 - 07:11
      +1

      "That being said, there are also a bunch of whack jobs and crazies out there too, so always keep an even keel and tread with caution."

      LOL… you can see the evidence of that in this thread,.

  • Kiro on 12/10/2021 - 05:42
    +1

    The older generation didn’t have superannuation from the words go when they joined the work force as it was created back in the 80’s which meant that a good portion of their working career didn’t have any contributions to their retirement.

    Also it’s very hard to give a genuine answer to your question op without going through details like past work history, finances, etc.

  • Vomo on 12/10/2021 - 07:22
    +1

    Interesting discussion. My takeaway from this is to be less judgemental and more compassionate to everyone. A caravan park we stayed at in Queensland a 99 year old woman lived alone in a van. Why would I assume to judge? We were only there for one night but if she needed help I would try to help. The owners of the park said she was lovely and happy. I know someone who lives in a caravan park after his divorce. He is soldiering on.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2021 - 07:54
    +2

    Ah the weekly thread to remind us all that most ozbargainers truly are the dregs of society.

    • Hangryuman on 12/10/2021 - 13:53

      don't talk about yourself like that !

  • FrozenFred on 12/10/2021 - 09:11
    +4

    Opinions are like arse holes, everybody's got one

    • Hangryuman on 12/10/2021 - 13:52

      thank you Sir - I dips me lid to you as the Major R Soul of today ;-)

    • selfishnarcissistman on 13/10/2021 - 19:18
      -2

      except you have 2 assholes Fred

  • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2021 - 10:02
    +1

    According to: https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/seniors/publicat…

    77% of Australians over the age of 65 receive income support.

    So it's not a tiny fraction of those hard done by in life. It's the vast overwhelming majority of people. Nearly 80%. Of course not all of them are receiving the full amount.

    Older broke people have two advantages over younger broke people. First, they had their entire lives to prepare for this point, and second, the government gives them more money and various bonuses and discounts.

    Even being "broke" in this country gives you a lot of options. Not everyone on an old age pension lives in a caravan park with annoying neighbors. Most of them can afford a car.

  • lint on 12/10/2021 - 10:21
    +1

    It's difficult to know everybody's individual circumstances so yes, by default I'd feel sorry for them.

  • OzHunterNSW on 12/10/2021 - 11:03
    -2

    You would be surprised to learn that many of these seemingly broke "older people" have more money than you. They have learnt to live on bake beans, whilst receiving a generous pension from the govt.

    Caravan site rent/ $25pw. Food/ $30pw Govt Pension $1,400.00 per fortnight.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2021 - 10:25

      A quick google shows that the maximum fortnightly rate is $967.50 and that includes energy and a few other subsidies.

      This amount is also asset tested, so it's the absolute maximum. Not sure where you got that made up figure from, but I have an idea.

      I also love how you just list two random figures. Caravan rental price + food. How about medical bills, transport, insurance and god forbid they want to do anything with/for their family.

      You also imply that they're gaming the system. I wouldn't call living in a caravan living off $30 a week of tinned baked beans a life of luxury.

      Get a grip.

  • DiscoJango on 12/10/2021 - 12:04

    Information in regards to investing, how to save money, how to do anything is so easy now with the internet

    I do feel sorry for the previous generations who basically had access to none of this unless they paid big $ to a consultant, who even then might tell them dodgy info

  • acersaurus on 12/10/2021 - 12:22
    +1

    I worked out that a couple renting in retirement and 100% pension reliant get $796/week (including rent assistance) as long as their rent is more than $193/week.

    So they could rent something like the below in a regional city with good access to services, and have $596/week left. Plus they get all the pensioner discounts and free healthcare, it's enough to live a basic life with all needs and some wants met. Seeing the detail of this, it is not really worthy of directing pity towards when there are malnourished children in the world in war zones and collapsed societies.

    2/45 Otway Street South, Ballarat East, Vic 3350 https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-ballarat+eas…

  • Cluster on 12/10/2021 - 12:36
    +5

    It's impossible to know why someone is broke. Maybe they never had the opportunity for education. Maybe they had a chronic condition that prevented them working. Maybe their partner divorced them and took all the money. Maybe the person was a gambler and willfully gave away all their money. Maybe they were the victim of crime/fraud.

    One thing is for sure: Never rely on anyone else for your retirement. Not the government's promises to pay a pension, not any partner's promise to always be there for you. Be prepared for the worst to happen while hoping for the best.

    It's a good thing to have sympathy for the poor, and to help them when you can.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/10/2021 - 13:05

    Depends entirely on circumstances

    But if im being 100% honest outside of my own family i dont care too much…..

    I dont see Boomers that have 15 houses, sitting on $20m net worth feeling sorry for the young generation struggling to buy a place to live.

    Unless there is a unforeseen reason ie the person had illness or and accident etc i dont have much empathy. If you are struggling financially in your 60 but healthy you can always work - at very worst drive Uber.

    • pharkurnell on 12/10/2021 - 16:06

      at very worst drive Uber.

      That relies on having a car and license. Then again

    • jv on 12/10/2021 - 16:10

      But if im being 100% honest outside of my own family i dont care too much…..

      I'm guessing you're not a philanthropist then?

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/10/2021 - 10:49

        If i was too give money it would be to causes that help the Environment, promote medical research, help conversation of animals

        Giving money to people as individuals is generally useless in the long run. They will spend it then they will need more thus not benefiting them at all in a meaningful way.

        If individuals dont know how to management money by 60 they aren't going to manage any handouts after that.

  • Hangryuman on 12/10/2021 - 13:28

    'older couple in their late 60's living in a small caravan in a caravan park up on the NSW Central Coast'

    the worry there is when the caravan park owner gets an offer from a developer who wants to build luxury waterfront apartments, and sells, and the long term residents of the caravan park get a notice to vacate within 60 days

    the strongest determinant of financial stress in retirement is - paying rent for insecure accommodation.

    the strongest determinant of financial contentment in retirement is - owning your own home, paid off/unencumbered.

    inner Sydney that might be a difference of $26Kpa you need, or don't need - just to keep a roof over your head.

  • Drakesy on 12/10/2021 - 13:57

    Make poor life choices, don't worry the government will be there to support you.

    This i where i'm on the fence. You can go all in and gamble everything, live a lavish lifestyle and end up broke at the end of it all and then the government will fork out to maintain your life. Whereas the other guy who lived securely, ensured his finances were futureproofed, drove a reliable beater, lived in a small house gets nothing.

    Not going to lie, if you own your own home (which they should given they were a dime a dozen back in the 90's) then the pension shouldn't be too hard to live off ($450 a week or $650 a week if you're a couple).

    I lived off 2/3 that while at uni and i had pay rent and still managed to go on holidays

    Having said that i do agree with whoever mentioned that divorce can set you back 5-10 years financially which is hard to recover from.

    (Preparing myself for the flak).

    • MessyG on 12/10/2021 - 13:59

      The pension is from a time when there was no super, many people were illiterate and did not have any financial knowledge whatsoever. This is the majority of our pensioner community now. This is such a silver spooner comment.

      • Drakesy on 12/10/2021 - 14:01
        +1

        The pension payout is approx equivalent to a $200,000 superannuation fund, only the fund is the government and they haven't had to contribute anything other than tax.

        I don't know about you but there's a fair few people out there that even with superannuation will struggle to get to this mark.

        • MessyG on 12/10/2021 - 14:06

          1. I would rather my taxes look after this group who broke their backs building this country than go into the back pocket of some politicians handout from their private company funded by tax revenue.

          2. A $200,000 superannuation fund at the point of retirement is the same as the pension so this is a moot point. A $200k super fund in a 40 year old will be worth more at retirement. And it's not like the pensioners get that as a lump sum that they can invest like you could with a super fund payout.

          3. This group never had the option of super so it's a bit shit to paint them this way. Pensioners do it tough in more ways than one and all of these comments just tell me how little exposure everyone on here has to those challenges.

          • gromit on 13/10/2021 - 08:56
            +2

            @MessyG: This group absolutely DID have the option of super. Super is not a new invention, it just became compulsory. Many had super funds long before it became compulsory and most did not depend on the pension as their retirement plan. Just like today though you had a lot of people with absolutely no retirement plan and lived for today rather than planning for the future and expected the government to support them, they treated the pension as an entitlement rather than a fallback.

        • afah0447 on 13/10/2021 - 17:26

          The actual financial value to the individual is quite a bit more if you factor in public housing, public health care, the pharmaceuticals benefits scheme (PBS), utilities support and discounted public transport. Some calcs did a few years back values it at closer to $1m and not subject to the risk of the stock market. Don't forget the pension is indexed each year to the average wage, whereas the dole is indexed to inflation. This makes a massive difference!

          Downsides:

          • public housing is now low quality and is primarily full of people who are at the margins of society.
          • the public health system is consistently underfunded (intentionally) to force people into the private system.
          • it is harder for new 'breakthrough' drugs to be added to the PBS as federal governments are now very budget focused and quite frankly don't want to subsidise them.
          • utilities supplements year-on-year are being reduced, where ironically solar subsidies to homeowners have never been higher or easier to get.
          • public transportation is another underfunded public service than is poor quality and is infrequent or non-existent to the outer suburbs of major cities where a lot of public housing is located.
    • 900dollaridoos on 12/10/2021 - 14:09

      Whereas the other guy who lived securely, ensured his finances…

      Great example of this is my friend who worked in retail for about 5 years after school, carefully saving and living within his means. He decided to upskill and get a uni degree and applied for study assist, was told he couldn't receive any support until all of his savings were depleted (~30k of well deserved nest egg). Meanwhile if he had just spent it all he'd have been better off..

      • Drakesy on 12/10/2021 - 14:26
        +1

        Agreed
        This is the world we live in
        When i went onto jobseeker, because i had a house deposit ready to go i had to wait 16 weeks.

        However my mate who had just went out and bought a $80,000 mercedes went straight onto it.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/10/2021 - 14:37

      I agree with Drakesy the system is pretty rubbish if you do the right thing work hard, save well, pay your right amount of tax etc you 'usually' get very little if not anything at all from it

      if you take drugs, gamble it all away it looks after you…..

      It is why i support a UBI for all and believe pensions/welfare/ special MP pensions etc should all be binned.

      • Bjingo on 13/10/2021 - 18:59

        I have thought long and hard about UBIs and overall great idea especially as automation pushing people out of jobs, but, being universal it means its paid to EVERYONE including the Palmers, Packers and Rinehart's and frankly I don't want them receiving more money so if you throw a like earning cap or asset cap onto it something like 200k a year or 10 mil in assets id call it perfect.

        also at what point do you just skip the money part and merely give people the means to survival instead, skip the middle man.

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/10/2021 - 19:26

          'If' the tax system ensured everyone pays there fair share of tax i got no issue with the UBI go to Packer, Palmer bcuz it would a large % of their tax money that funds it…..

          People like Packer and Palmer can be multi millionaires one day and bankrupt the next - i prefer a even system over a means tested one otherwise you end up with the system we have now where a % of people are happy to leech off it, some people find it too difficult to get out of it and better themselves. How many conversations ive had with people who are discouraged from workin becuz they will lose their benefits (i work with a lot of retired people and disabled people)

          On the flip side our current system has shown how rubbish it is with COVID situation a number of people who were out of work were 'means tested' out of unemployment - these are the same people who paid taxes and contributed to the system. But when they needed support were told NO you earned too much money in the last 6 months….. (ie forget paying your home loan or buying food)

          IMO means testing makes a system inefficient, also means testing is clearly corrupt as the current MP pensions are NOT means tested thus i dont trust the government to make anything like a UBI fair if it isnt 100% evenly split

          UBI means you work to put yourself in a better financial position not to just survive - it would allow the tax brackets to be expanded to ultra high income earners etc

          It would also remove any 'special' pensions our corrupt government has put in place for itself. It is Colour, Race, Gender and Sexuality blind imho it is the best way forward.

          • Bjingo on 13/10/2021 - 19:59

            @Trying2SaveABuck:

            'If' the tax system ensured everyone pays there fair share of tax i got no issue with the UBI go to Packer, Palmer bcuz it would a large % of their tax money that funds it…..

            I am not against it by any means I just really don't like most of the mega wealthy especially those that have profited off of debatably unethical things. Though Ideally rather than a UBI necessities should just be provided for people. My reasoning is firstly it prevents inflation from it because the moment everyone has enough to survive companies and greedy individuals will take advantage of that. I can see landlords suddenly raising rent as they know everyone could afford it.

            and means testing can be good take, for example, means tested fines. rather than a parking fine being crippling for the poor and just a parking fee for the wealthy it will be something both feel the same weight of.

    • pharkurnell on 12/10/2021 - 16:05
      +2

      Having said that i do agree with whoever mentioned that divorce can set you back 5-10 years financially which is hard to recover from.

      Divorce can set you back a lot more than 10 years.. as can bad legal advice or financial advice from so called licenses experts.

    • Ghost47 on 12/10/2021 - 23:29

      I think being self sustainable is a pretty admirable trait. Leeching off the government (which also includes purposely dodging taxes) is abhorrent. I do agree that it's somewhat unfair for people who have purposely blown their money to get support from the government, but I doubt their lives would be much fun living on welfare.

    • 91rs on 13/10/2021 - 10:32
      -1

      Do you want to become America? Because that's how you become America.
      While there are homeless issues in Australia if the support offered in Australia was removed we'd be just as bad with huge areas littered with homeless people like much of California (and other states).

      I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle you think these people on the pension and government support have, but for the ones without a house of their own and paying market rents its a very tight one at best. Those are the ones at highest risk and there are quite a lot of them still, if thats through their own fault or just how life played out.
      The majority aren't going all in to gamble everything, that's a terrible argument, many weren't ever living this lavish lifestyle that you make up either.

      If you're in that 55-65 group, are in not great health (impacts what work you can do) and didn't do so well in the settlement for a divorce, there is no coming back from that to the life you were leading before in most cases. I know several people in that situation and it's a pretty bleak outlook, but hey free government money right?!?! (/S as I don't think you'd get it)

      Proportion of home owners and renters by age of household reference person
      55 to 64: 78% home owners, 21% renters
      65 to 74: 83% home owners, 15% renters
      75 and over: 84% home owners, 14% renters
      Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) – based on data from its Survey of Income and Housing conducted from July 2017 to June 2018

      Let's take the over 65's (everyone older than 65) as at 2016, they made up 15.3% of the population, that's 3.58 million people. Let's take the lower number of 14% (renters) of that 3.58M and you've got 501k people who are renting.
      Imagine removing support for half a million people, that's the equivalent of the population of the Gold Coast, or Canberra & Darwin.
      What kind of outcome do you think that would have on the country?

      I'm pretty sure the guy who lived securely as you put it, (I won't acknowledge drove a beater or lived in a small house as that is plenty of the population, even more so of the older generations & lower income as they'd just walked everywhere or took PT), unless he's some old bitter (probably single) man who's squirreled away a small fortune that he thinks everyone is after, he would be OK knowing that people he knew around his own age that needed help, that the government was there to help them out.

  • MessyG on 12/10/2021 - 13:57
    +12

    Considering that many of the older people that I come across came to this country as migrants, invited here at the time, from poor countries where they had little to no education (many with no education at all because if, as a kid, you didn't work then you didn't eat), worked their guts out on all of our infrastructure with zero superannuation - then yes, I have a lot of sympathy.

    What I don't have sympathy for is weasely questions like this one. Poverty is not a moral failing. All of us are only a couple of life events removed from it. And I wonder what kind of human even asks the question of whether or not I have sympathy for someone who in older age, is waiting for a dept of housing unit.

    The highest growing group of homeless people in our society is older women. Women with little education and no careers, whose husbands have worked themselves literally into the grave and died young as a result. And the men who find themselves without anything in older age have been promised one thing in life, and been delivered the opposite. They have not 'squandered' anything, and poverty is not a moral failing. None of this crowd have been living the high life throughout their lives. And as a community we have a responsibility to them, if only so that when we are old and the victims of circumstance and disability, someone will hopefully do the same for us.

    Asking this question tells me you have not much understanding of what life can do to people. Our older Australians deserve dignity, not s****y questions like this.

    • netjock on 12/10/2021 - 15:25

      What I don't have sympathy for is weasely questions like this one.

      Agreed. Too many factors. Even some family that come from generations of money lose it all through mindful or mindless bad luck.

    • Big Lenny on 13/10/2021 - 09:09
      +1

      great post, 100% agree with you

      less judgement from OP, more kindness

      • selfishnarcissistman on 13/10/2021 - 19:10
        -3

        when i went to block you i couldnt find your user name in the list,any chance you can block me instead?

  • weezlebub on 12/10/2021 - 14:24
    +1

    everyone's situation is different …

    I know someone who had owned night clubs and businesses their whole life, but a couple of miss steps and ended up bankrupt and struggled to get back out there (too old for most employers, difficult to get a role in a relevant industry).

    Another who's wife left him and took his son overseas, he paid lawyers and private investigators to try and get his son back, they made promises and never got anywhere - just as he was about to let it go, his mother started coming down with really bad dementia, so he became a full time carer until she went into a home.

    • pharkurnell on 12/10/2021 - 16:04

      everyone's situation is different …

      Exactly.. Close the thread

  • Wallyt99 on 12/10/2021 - 14:35
    +1

    There if not for the grace of God go I.

  • pipe on 12/10/2021 - 14:48

    If they went broke from getting traffic fines the thread will be very different

  • wallet72 on 12/10/2021 - 14:53
    +2

    Super wasn't compulsory before 1992 so they might not have started accruing it until then, which wouldn't give them much by now
    Pre super it was assumed the pension would do the job, but the pension is so far behind the real cost of living now it's nothing like they were expecting
    They may own their own home, but the rising cost of real estate means rates are skyrocketing, which puts a drain on their finances
    GFC may have put a dent in their next egg
    God help them if there was a vicious divorce in their past

    One thing that has been highlighted to me is anyone getting old on NDIS or disability. You must take advantage of every benefit/rebate you can before you hit retirement age, because once you hit that age you are transitioned to the aged pension, and your assistance is much less while your condition doesn't suddenly disappear. So that may result in an increased cost too.

  • AG_ACT on 12/10/2021 - 15:57

    Ashamed as I am to admit it, my first reaction for older people say 60 plus who are financially insecure in other words broke, is certainly not sympathy. My opinion might sway that way after I learn a little more about them, e.g. an event that has happened to them, but generally, I don't have much sympathy unless things have been outside their control.

    I'm going to be 37 very soon, but the most lavishly I've ever lived was for the 3 months where I was entitled to AUSstudy between finishing uni as a full fee paying student and starting my first full time job. Since then, I've lived very frugally for one reason or another (personal choice of course) to make sure that I can have a semi-:luxurious" mid life/retirement. If I had chosen to spend my earnings on going clubbing, or eating out etc when I was at UNI or after I got my first job, I doubt I would be close to paying off my first home.

    It's very hard not to judge things based on your personal experience and my personal experience tells me, there is a cost to everything in this world.

  • Griffindinho on 12/10/2021 - 16:00

    i have sympathy for anyone that isnt part of the elites/billionaires.

  • pharkurnell on 12/10/2021 - 16:02

    Depends 100% on how they ended up broke.

    40-50yrs ago finances were thought of differently

  • KozieSeller on 12/10/2021 - 18:23

    Yea nah, maybe if they are migrants living in the west but they are in NSW Central Coast, so they probably have had gererations of privilege
    probably wasted away on pokies, alcohol

  • syousef on 12/10/2021 - 20:09

    Your lack of sympathy/empathy tells me a lot more about you than your post tells me about the couple. I really hope this is a troll.

    • mandelbrot on 13/10/2021 - 02:52
      +1

      I suspect the op is a troll account.

  • virhlpool on 12/10/2021 - 20:20

    If their children or siblings have some sympathy for them, then they will at least never have to live like broke even if they are broke on paper. Children and siblings are the first set of people who should have more sympathy, followed by other relatives.

  • Morphio25 on 12/10/2021 - 20:21

    Nope, not at all. They're the boomer generation that could buy property a hell of a lot cheaper than what you can now.

    Super I don't think was a thing for them for most of their working lives but the quickness with which they could pay off their loan and save money offsets that.

    • onesandtwos on 13/10/2021 - 08:49

      You're resentful of boomers because they could buy property relatively cheaply. So your logic is that every boomer should have property, even though that would have pushed current day prices even higher and is what makes you so resentful in the first place.

      • Morphio25 on 15/10/2021 - 20:32

        No, my post specifically stated they're the generation that 'could' buy property a lot cheaper than the current generation. I.e. the current generation are having to take loans that are 6-7x their incomes in order to get into the property market, that's just something that you see these days.

        There are some people from the boomer generation who took advantage and some who didn't. My mum went through a divorce when I was in my early teens but picked herself back up, found another partner and they're now in the early sixties but have owned their home for almost a decade now. They'll live well in retirement.

        Likewise I know others from that generation who haven't managed their money well and are now looking to their kids/other/even me in some cases for a cheap place to stay.

        I'm in no way saying that everyone from the generation should be well off, obviously individual circumstances differ, but the stats show that the boomer generation is where the money is and a lot of that is to do with property which just happened to be easier to buy back then.

  • nikey2k27 on 12/10/2021 - 21:34

    there more life there money i know some lost lot live on Centrelink is happy person you more to live then money

  • kosh52 on 12/10/2021 - 22:47

    I’m 37 and broke. Mainly due to poor financial choices

    • Bjingo on 13/10/2021 - 19:05
      +1

      I'm sorry to hear that and I am sure it will get better, keep fighting the good fight.

  • bobolo on 12/10/2021 - 23:25

    Its not your call to have sympathy to them or not - and especially whether they deserve sympathy

    Just treat everyone with the same amount of respect, dignity and kindness, regardless of their background/current situation

  • Eeples on 12/10/2021 - 23:34

    Changed over to the old aged pension from the disability support pension?

  • nightqueen on 13/10/2021 - 08:24
    +1

    Do you have any sympathy for older people say 60 plus who are financially insecure in other words broke?

    Time to join squid games

  • iknowtj on 13/10/2021 - 09:23
    +1

    My dad came to this country in 1974, worked his ass off to build a future for himself and more importantly, his family.

    29 years ago he was on his way to work at 3.30am when a taxi ploughed through a red light into the side of his car and ended his working career and his been on disability pension sense through no desire or urge of his own.

    My mum was busy raising two kids, ESL and then had to add looking after dad to her list of things to worry about.

    They struggle financially in their older age but other than a bottle of booze here or there they have no vices to speak of where they waste their money.

    Life doesn't always go to plan, so if/when you are in the situation where you can build for your later life definitely do so.

    No matter what though, I wouldn't look down on someone who's not flush with cash. Up to you if you feel sorry I guess.

  • mandelbrot on 13/10/2021 - 09:44

    Ironic from OP, since he is "mature aged unemployed and no money" (his own words).

  • FrugalFranky on 13/10/2021 - 09:46

    Depends,

    Generally yes, Everyone goes through life differently. Never judge a book by its cover.

  • onesandtwos on 13/10/2021 - 10:15
    +1

    It isn't about 'feeling sorry' which is its own judgement, and often about your feelings towards someone else's situation. The truth is, virtually everyone is only one or two unlucky/crappy events away from major financial upheaval. If you encounter people and take some of their journey as a cautionary tale, then fine, but don't ever think you know the full story.

  • DemocracyManifest on 13/10/2021 - 11:22

    Well, lets just say I know someone whos exhausted their super before 67, practically squandered a second house, and now has $60k in the bank after a seperation and no house. I suppose the first thing is, they were unable to work after 60 due to medical issues literally brought on by work and probably should have got things sorted out through workers comp and tried to keep going, but 7 years living off your super, paying off a mortgage, etc, doesnt work out well on single income, thats it. The pension age rising is pretty bad policy, pretty ridiculous getting 60 year olds to fill out job applications when they are going to get the jobs, and if they do, they don't last. In my current role they hire them but its just too much for them and they walk.

  • Cyphar on 13/10/2021 - 11:34
    +5

    My mum was a stay at home mum until her late 50's. When her and my dad broke up, he took everything and buggered off to Thailand. His super was in a SMSF so he emptied that out as well. Haven't seen him in years. My mum had no savings and due to her lack of experience, struggled to hold down a job. Now in her 60's, she has horrible Rhumetoid Arthritis so can't work and is on Disability. She raised 4 sons and we all chip in to help her but she has struggled the last 15 years.

  • Gandalf the Grey on 13/10/2021 - 12:27
    +1

    I generally have sympathy for all people who are broke, I am sure they have their reasons. Some people are just not as lucky or as fortunate as others.

  • Adrian Player on 13/10/2021 - 18:12

    It takes 100 bucks a week/month depending on the time frame max from age 18 to 65 to build a multi millionaire portfolio. I feel sorry for the ones that had illness hit them hard or something they couldnt control. But thats a very small percent of people. Most bought too many cars / car loans / personal loans / credit cards / high living expenses and poor life choices on houses and areas to live in. If you have a microscope on most peoples lives its either a few big bad choices or constantly small poor choices every day.

    In less then 50 years there will be no more pension. Not enough young people working pay tax to support all those retired and elderly.

    • afah0447 on 13/10/2021 - 21:14

      Correct. Too many people expect a new car every 2 years, upgrade their phone/TV/sofa too often, eat our or use delivery services too much and generally waste too much money on junk they don't need only to 'look good' at the cost of investing or contributing to their retirement.

      • Adrian Player on 14/10/2021 - 11:40

        Ive driven a suzuki swift for 12+ years, great little car, only upgrading soon as im starting a family. A 30-100k car isnt a necessity. 4 wheels / safe / reliable can be done for 5-15k and hold for 5-10 years no issues. Sadly not many people look at life like this. They upgrade their phones at 2k a pop every 2 years. 100+ foxtel subscription every month when kayo is only 15 per month for the sport package which is the only thing i want. Most i have ever spent on a phone is 400 for samsung j series which has the same specs as the prior years samsung galaxy. Never have a phone plan pay up front. Didnt buy an owner occupied with a huge mortgage nope bought 3 investment properties first. Dont use uber eats like so many people do. Dont spend 10 beers at the pub every friday. review my insurances every year for better deals. You do this and more over the years and wealth starts building by default. Plenty of ways to enjoy life without a lot of expense.

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